susanb
Well-Known Member
Joined: Jun 21, 2012 14:16:56 GMT -5
Posts: 1,430
|
Post by susanb on Aug 1, 2012 10:58:32 GMT -5
I really don't understand how when it has to do with sex she is a toddler but for everything else a 17 year old is an adult. Because they are not. A 17 year old can't buy cigarettes, alcohol or pornography. Legally, they can't even buy a ticket to an R rated movie. There are lots of decisions we as a society have decided a 17 year old is not mature enough to handle or make.
|
|
thyme4change
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
Posts: 40,389
Member is Online
|
Post by thyme4change on Aug 1, 2012 11:03:54 GMT -5
Maybe the teacher should stand up, and avert his eyes.
|
|
973beachbum
Senior Associate
Politics Admin
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 16:12:13 GMT -5
Posts: 10,501
|
Post by 973beachbum on Aug 1, 2012 11:05:10 GMT -5
I really don't understand how when it has to do with sex she is a toddler but for everything else a 17 year old is an adult. Because they are not. A 17 year old can't buy cigarettes, alcohol or pornography. Legally, they can't even buy a ticket to an R rated movie. There are lots of decisions we as a society have decided a 17 year old is not mature enough to handle or make. I know that but it is still stupid. If he could have convinced her to kill someone she would be in jail and NO ONE here would feel the least sorry for her.
|
|
formerroomate99
Junior Associate
Joined: Sept 12, 2011 13:33:12 GMT -5
Posts: 7,381
|
Post by formerroomate99 on Aug 1, 2012 11:05:27 GMT -5
You'd be suprised how lax some states are with statutory rape laws. I know a girl who had a kid at 14 with a 19 year old, so in all likelihood, she was 13 when the child was conceived. Not only was this guy not put in jail, he was able to keep her from putting the child up for adoption. Why anyone would think it is a good idea to give a child to a grown man who sleeps with 13 or 14 year olds is beyond me. This was in the late 1980's in one of the bluest of blue states.
|
|
susanb
Well-Known Member
Joined: Jun 21, 2012 14:16:56 GMT -5
Posts: 1,430
|
Post by susanb on Aug 1, 2012 11:13:02 GMT -5
Because they are not. A 17 year old can't buy cigarettes, alcohol or pornography. Legally, they can't even buy a ticket to an R rated movie. There are lots of decisions we as a society have decided a 17 year old is not mature enough to handle or make. I know that but it is still stupid. If he could have convinced her to kill someone she would be in jail and NO ONE here would feel the least sorry for her. Than why did you say that 17 year olds are adults? Convincing a minor to do an illegal activity such as murder is not analogous to convincing a minor to engage in an activity that is not immoral or illegal for the minor. A 17 year old is perfectly capable of consenting to sexual acts with 17 year olds. There is nothing legally or ethically wrong with them doing so. If a teacher convinces a kid to have sex with them, the kid isn't breaking law or codes of conduct, the teacher is. There are many states where the age of consent is 18.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Apr 24, 2024 23:12:52 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2012 11:20:30 GMT -5
Maybe the teacher should stand up, and avert his eyes. If that's the case then the school should implement and enforce a dress code.
|
|
Miss Tequila
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 10:13:45 GMT -5
Posts: 20,602
Member is Online
|
Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 1, 2012 11:22:04 GMT -5
"If that's the case then the school should implement and enforce a dress code" geez, that's harsh...how do you think I passed high school?? Here's a hint, it wasn't my grades
|
|
midjd
Administrator
Your Money Admin
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 14:09:23 GMT -5
Posts: 17,719
|
Post by midjd on Aug 1, 2012 11:22:41 GMT -5
^ True. We had a relatively strict dress code. After a couple of times of having your parents have to drop off a change of clothes (or being sent home) the scandalous outfits pretty much stopped. Not that how you're dressed has any impact on whether you're having a relationship with the teacher. But it would at least cut back on the "well those students should just quit being slutty!" complaints.
|
|
NomoreDramaQ1015
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:26:32 GMT -5
Posts: 47,217
|
Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Aug 1, 2012 11:23:11 GMT -5
Convincing a minor to do an illegal activity such as murder is not analogous to convincing a minor to engage in an activity that is not immoral or illegal for the minor.
A 17 year old is perfectly capable of consenting to sexual acts with 17 year olds. There is nothing legally or ethically wrong with them doing so. If a teacher convinces a kid to have sex with them, the kid isn't breaking law or codes of conduct, the teacher is.
|
|
973beachbum
Senior Associate
Politics Admin
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 16:12:13 GMT -5
Posts: 10,501
|
Post by 973beachbum on Aug 1, 2012 11:23:59 GMT -5
I know that but it is still stupid. If he could have convinced her to kill someone she would be in jail and NO ONE here would feel the least sorry for her. Than why did you say that 17 year olds are adults? Convincing a minor to do an illegal activity such as murder is not analogous to convincing a minor to engage in an activity that is not immoral or illegal for the minor. A 17 year old is perfectly capable of consenting to sexual acts with 17 year olds. There is nothing legally or ethically wrong with them doing so. If a teacher convinces a kid to have sex with them, the kid isn't breaking law or codes of conduct, the teacher is. There are many states where the age of consent is 18. First of all I said the teacher should lose his job and not be able to teach again. He shouldn't be having a relationship with a student period and there is no excuse for it. But at 17 she is perfectly able to enlist in the military, quit school, get a job, and do time for committing crimes. I know I am a dinosaur but in my mind that means she understood what going to his house and having sex was. This wasn't a 12 year old. She was 17. I think it was wrong and he would be fired but acting like she was completely incapable of deciding what she wanted to do is silly and the reason we have such overcrowded jails in this country.
|
|
souldoubt
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 4, 2011 11:57:14 GMT -5
Posts: 2,745
|
Post by souldoubt on Aug 1, 2012 11:26:41 GMT -5
The majority of my teachers in HS were older, out of shape, unattractive or flat out unpleasant. However there was one female sub who's father was a full time teacher there as well and she was pretty damn good looking. As a male (i.e. horny) teenager if she came onto me I probably would have had a near heart attack then let her have her way with me because I was a kid who knew next to nothing. In retrospect now of course I would think something like that is weird because someone in their mid to late 20's has nothing in common with a teenager and coming onto one means they've got major issues.
For the girls there was a guy who was an assistant coach who was a former student who's dad was the basketball coach and the girls were crazy over this guy and constantly hitting on him. Any time that guy was walking across campus he had at least 1 group of attractive girls talking to him, flirting and so on. From everything I ever saw he handled it extremely well and as he's now the basketball coach so if anything inappropriate ever happened it's never become public.
|
|
thyme4change
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
Posts: 40,389
Member is Online
|
Post by thyme4change on Aug 1, 2012 11:27:13 GMT -5
It would be even better if the school spent $12 at the Goodwill buying the worst possible outfits EVER, and then making kids wear those.
|
|
zibazinski
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 16:12:50 GMT -5
Posts: 47,865
|
Post by zibazinski on Aug 1, 2012 11:27:40 GMT -5
Gee, our high school just made the kids wear a HUGE tshirt that looked like it had never been washed after the entire football team practiced in it. Never had a problem with poor taste in attire after wearing one of those. You might as well had the Scarlet Letter on your chest!
|
|
NomoreDramaQ1015
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:26:32 GMT -5
Posts: 47,217
|
Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Aug 1, 2012 11:29:04 GMT -5
know I am a dinosaur but in my mind that means she understood what going to his house and having sex was
Do you think her lawyer is going to want her to say that or do you think her lawyer is going ot want her to claim she was "confused"?
Just because that is what got pulished doesn't mean that is what she actually thinks. It could be what she was told to say.
|
|
susanb
Well-Known Member
Joined: Jun 21, 2012 14:16:56 GMT -5
Posts: 1,430
|
Post by susanb on Aug 1, 2012 11:58:33 GMT -5
Beach, you are acting as if the laws in this country are subjective and that this girl chose to sue her teacher criminally. If he is being charged with a criminal offense, it is because the prosecutors in his town have enough evidence that he broke the law to charge him with a crime. Sexual and violent crimes are under-represented in the prison population, not over represented, so your premise that this is the reason for over-crowded jails again relies on faulty logic.
|
|
973beachbum
Senior Associate
Politics Admin
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 16:12:13 GMT -5
Posts: 10,501
|
Post by 973beachbum on Aug 1, 2012 12:06:15 GMT -5
Beach, you are acting as if the laws in this country are subjective and that this girl chose to sue her teacher criminally. If he is being charged with a criminal offense, it is because the prosecutors in his town have enough evidence that he broke the law to charge him with a crime. Sexual and violent crimes are under-represented in the prison population, not over represented, so your premise that this is the reason for over-crowded jails again relies on faulty logic. No it isn't. You are starting out by assuming that all sex with a minor is a violent crime. Where in any of this did it say it was? I also didn't say this individual crime was the reason just the over criminalizing of things that should be handled by the people themselves instead of looking to the government to somehow "fix" things for them. I asked my 16 year old DD what she thought and if she had any sympathy for the girl because said she was confused and her answer was NO! She also said that excuse is BS. Is it possible to force a teen to do something they don't want to do, yes. It is also about as easy as pushing a noodle uphill with your nose. And just to make things more interesting DA's have a lot of ability to bring up charges or not at their sole decision. It is a lot less cut and dry than I would have thought.
|
|
NomoreDramaQ1015
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:26:32 GMT -5
Posts: 47,217
|
Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Aug 1, 2012 12:10:27 GMT -5
Of course it is probably BS, but you aren't going to get the charges to stick if the 17 year old is running around saying she willing screwed the teacher and knew what she was doing. Someone has told her what to say more than likely.
Just because I think the guy was a dumbass and deserves what he got doesn't mean I have any sympathy for her either.
|
|
susanb
Well-Known Member
Joined: Jun 21, 2012 14:16:56 GMT -5
Posts: 1,430
|
Post by susanb on Aug 1, 2012 12:19:06 GMT -5
I do not assume that sex with a minor is a violent crime. I separated sexual crimes from violent crimes with the use of the word "and." I am not surprised that your daughter shares your values. Children often share the values of their parents.
DA's are bound by the laws of this country.
I am not debating whether the girl wanted to have sex with her teacher. Some of my male students likely wanted to have sex with me. Their desire to do so doesn't change the fact that is would have been a gross violation of my position and a gross violation of them. In some states, it would have been a criminal offense in addition to an ethical offense.
|
|
NomoreDramaQ1015
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:26:32 GMT -5
Posts: 47,217
|
Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Aug 1, 2012 12:23:34 GMT -5
I am not debating whether the girl wanted to have sex with her teacher. Some of my male students likely wanted to have sex with me. Their desire to do so doesn't change the fact that is would have been a gross violation of my position and a gross violation of them. In some states, it would have been a criminal offense in addition to an ethical offense.
#yeahthat#
Susanb said it better than I can.
|
|
flopsy
Well-Known Member
Joined: Feb 5, 2011 23:14:07 GMT -5
Posts: 1,690
|
Post by flopsy on Aug 1, 2012 12:44:01 GMT -5
I had a teacher my jr and sr years who could not have been older than 25 (knew his age at the time). He got attention from the girls (17/18 yr olds) and it annoyed the shit out of him. He was cute but waaaaay too short Poor guy
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Apr 24, 2024 23:12:52 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2012 13:19:33 GMT -5
Seriously? Calling someone a slut is now sexist?? Good grief, everything in this world is not a war on women...some girls ARE slutty...some guys are male whores.... For me it is a matter of context. We are talking about teenage girls with supposedly adult men. The emphasis should be on the responsibilities of the adult men. But someone has to change the focus to the girls behaviour. And use language way harsher than anything that has been said about a man in this thread. Seriously, go back and look. Other than you saying some guys are male whores, the worst thing said about the guys on this thread is that they must be losers.
|
|
midjd
Administrator
Your Money Admin
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 14:09:23 GMT -5
Posts: 17,719
|
Post by midjd on Aug 1, 2012 13:36:10 GMT -5
Exactly. In the situation of an underaged girl and a male teacher - "well sure it's the guy's fault BUT the girl was acting slutty, what do you expect?" In the situation of an underaged guy and female teacher - "well, guys are hormonal, they can't help it. The teacher should've known better!" Either way, it's the woman's fault. Weird how that works.
|
|
flopsy
Well-Known Member
Joined: Feb 5, 2011 23:14:07 GMT -5
Posts: 1,690
|
Post by flopsy on Aug 1, 2012 13:41:09 GMT -5
Either way, it's the woman's fault. Weird how that works. Because that's the way it has always been
|
|
whoisjohngalt
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 14:12:07 GMT -5
Posts: 9,140
|
Post by whoisjohngalt on Aug 1, 2012 17:54:53 GMT -5
That's just yucky, he was 12-13 and she was in her early 30s.
Lena
|
|
midjd
Administrator
Your Money Admin
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 14:09:23 GMT -5
Posts: 17,719
|
Post by midjd on Aug 1, 2012 18:36:30 GMT -5
Has anyone seen the episode of Nip/Tuck where the female teacher dates/marries her student, then makes him get plastic surgery so she looks like less of a cougar, then dumps him for his teenage brother because he doesn't look like a little boy anymore?
I like that episode.
|
|
whoisjohngalt
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 14:12:07 GMT -5
Posts: 9,140
|
Post by whoisjohngalt on Aug 1, 2012 18:42:59 GMT -5
I couldn't watch NipTuck too much, it was making me sick to my stomach
|
|
midjd
Administrator
Your Money Admin
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 14:09:23 GMT -5
Posts: 17,719
|
Post by midjd on Aug 1, 2012 19:12:57 GMT -5
Mustache plugs and jaw/chin augmentation
|
|
midjd
Administrator
Your Money Admin
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 14:09:23 GMT -5
Posts: 17,719
|
Post by midjd on Aug 2, 2012 8:18:00 GMT -5
Yeah, this was just a one-show arc. Pretty much a ripoff of MKL - they met in 2nd grade, she went to jail, got out, got knocked up, and then they got married. (I think he was supposed to be 18). The woman originally wanted the boy to have the surgery so people wouldn't think the baby's father was really his brother. He got the surgery and she was like, "Oh. You look so... mature." Then in the last scene the boy/man walks into the bedroom and finds her in bed with his 13yo brother. Burn! Yeah, that's a messed-up situation to bring kids into. And you have to wonder whether it was a one-time thing on her part, or if she still goes for teenagers and is less interested in Vilii (sp?) now that he's in his late 20s.
|
|
zibazinski
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 16:12:50 GMT -5
Posts: 47,865
|
Post by zibazinski on Aug 2, 2012 8:30:55 GMT -5
There are some men and some women who both get into the roles of being mommy and telling their men what to do, what job to take, where to live, how to do everything, and there are some men who look for that mommy figure.
|
|
973beachbum
Senior Associate
Politics Admin
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 16:12:13 GMT -5
Posts: 10,501
|
Post by 973beachbum on Aug 2, 2012 10:43:04 GMT -5
Yeah, this was just a one-show arc. Pretty much a ripoff of MKL - they met in 2nd grade, she went to jail, got out, got knocked up, and then they got married. (I think he was supposed to be 18). The woman originally wanted the boy to have the surgery so people wouldn't think the baby's father was really his brother. He got the surgery and she was like, "Oh. You look so... mature." Then in the last scene the boy/man walks into the bedroom and finds her in bed with his 13yo brother. Burn! Yeah, that's a messed-up situation to bring kids into. And you have to wonder whether it was a one-time thing on her part, or if she still goes for teenagers and is less interested in Vilii (sp?) now that he's in his late 20s. I kind of doubt that - but time will tell. She's about 50 now or close to it I think. How warped must be his perceptions.....and what will they be when she is in her 70's and he is in his late 30's.....I would hope eventually for a tell-all, but with the kids, he may protect them. I don't think she herself will ever have the self realization. They report he was hitting on her, and being the instigator. Not sure if either of them will ever realize that that kind of thing is a dime a dozen event for a teen boy and pretty teacher, but it was her moral obligation to shut that down. I must be thinking of a different couple. Mary Kay lat,however you spell it, and the student she had an affair with are only about 20 years apart in ages. There are women all the time who have husbands that much older than them. Why is it so much worse when it is a man who is younger? The above has nothing to do with an adult having an affair with a middle schooler that is just sick.
|
|