Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Aug 7, 2012 10:12:11 GMT -5
Milee? You're suggesting Moon put it back? Wouldn't that be like throwing gas on a fire? I say let the darn thing die.
I don't think anyone is suggesting that we let the discussion continue (or maybe Milee was; I couldn't quite tell). I'm personally not in favor of that at this point. It's definitely run its course. I would vote for it to stay locked from now on.
But a lot of people, myself included, didn't get to read the last posts before it went away and several of them were well worth reading, from what I've been told (most notably Milee's post on the Sandusky case). So we'd like a chance to read them, that's all.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Aug 7, 2012 10:12:44 GMT -5
Milee? You're suggesting Moon put it back? Wouldn't that be like throwing gas on a fire? I say let the darn thing die. I think it should return in its locked form. I think moving it put more gas on the fire as you put it versus locking it and keeping it where it was. My opinion.
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milee
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Post by milee on Aug 7, 2012 10:14:59 GMT -5
Milee? You're suggesting Moon put it back? Wouldn't that be like throwing gas on a fire? I say let the darn thing die. The issue isn't about continuing the argument on the thread. I think most of the people are ready to stop discussing what was on the thread. The issue is with the moderating. Bringing back the thread - locked would be fine - addresses that issue because it will 1) allow everyone to read what the mod wrote and decide for themself if it is an issue and 2) stop the perception that the main reason the thread was completely removed was that a mod was off the reservation and removing it covered that up - different treatment for mods who get offensive versus regular posters who get offensive. Also, bringing back the thread addresses the issue of whether it's just too much work to moderate threads in which there is heated disagreement that doesn't violate the CoC. And finally, it would be a respectful way to handle the issue. Much more respectful than simply dismissing and insulting people who question the removal.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Aug 7, 2012 10:17:39 GMT -5
Agree with Opti and Gin. Locking it and keeping it there (with Opti's canned statement) would've helped avoid the big fight and the 3-4 resulting threads.
I know that horse has left the barn, but IMO that would be the best way to handle these situations in the future.
Not to mention that mods should probably take off their mod hats if they're going to get down and dirty in a debate. Kind of goes against the idea of mods as "neutral" (particularly when they have the ability to put on their mod hat and say "stop talking about this" as soon as they start losing their argument. Not to pick on WWBG, but I've seen him do that several times). If a thread needs to be moderated, IMO it should be from someone who isn't part of the debate.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Aug 7, 2012 10:17:42 GMT -5
I don't believe I ever saw a problem like this on the old board, this because the mods were very good about staying on the fence and not projecting their personal views on any topic. I guess you didn't hang out on EE. Saw a lot of this the last year of MSN. I think there was some on YM as well the last month or two. If you didn't read often you may have missed the firestorms and the thread locks and deletions.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Aug 7, 2012 10:22:59 GMT -5
We can own threads now?
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Aug 7, 2012 10:23:35 GMT -5
Milee? You're suggesting Moon put it back? Wouldn't that be like throwing gas on a fire? I say let the darn thing die. There was some very good information on there for people who really need an education as to the power dynamics of statutory rape.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2012 10:24:09 GMT -5
I don't believe I ever saw a problem like this on the old board, this because the mods were very good about staying on the fence and not projecting their personal views on any topic. I guess you didn't hang out on EE. Saw a lot of this the last year of MSN. I think there was some on YM as well the last month or two. If you didn't read often you may have missed the firestorms and the thread locks and deletions. Thank you Opti. I couldn't respond without being sarcastic.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Aug 7, 2012 10:26:31 GMT -5
There was some very good information on there for people who really need an education as to the power dynamics of statutory rape. At this point Swamp it's nothing more than You have your opinion, I have mine.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Aug 7, 2012 10:27:31 GMT -5
bump for missing post
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Aug 7, 2012 10:27:58 GMT -5
I guess you didn't hang out on EE. Saw a lot of this the last year of MSN. I think there was some on YM as well the last month or two. If you didn't read often you may have missed the firestorms and the thread locks and deletions. Yes, I saw threads locked and deletions, just didn't see mods taking sides on much. then you weren't looking too hard.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Aug 7, 2012 10:28:02 GMT -5
I agree. Mods should be able to post like anyone else. That being said, if they are going to post as regular posters, they should be able to be "ignored" like everyone else. Maybe the answer is a separate account for mod duties? Because being able to hit the "ignore" button yesterday might have saved a whole bunch of hassle and bad feelings.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Aug 7, 2012 10:28:31 GMT -5
Locking it is a death sentence. It only take a few hours for it to end up on page 2, and no more than two days for page 3. No one new will read the information, because they most likely wouldn't go back to page 12 to find it, and no one can bump it if it is locked. So, it really is a moot point.
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moon/Laura
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Post by moon/Laura on Aug 7, 2012 10:29:07 GMT -5
I have not insulted anyone who questioned the removal. rather, it is you who are doing the insulting. further, it has been asked several times to drop it, which is being ignored. that's just as disrespectful in my opinion.
nope. bringing a thread back isn't that important. i can skim these posts and reply on the fly. I cannot do that with a thread that was ?? pages long. I moved the thread for good cause. I am not willing to "lock it and leave it pending review" because there are plenty of former disgruntled members who would find a way to use it against the board in general IF there were things against the ToS that hadn't been seen yet. So, it stays moved pending review and then it can come back.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Aug 7, 2012 10:33:57 GMT -5
::further, it has been asked several times to drop it, which is being ignored. that's just as disrespectful in my opinion.::
It's not any more disrespectful to ignore (or say no to) YOUR requests than it is for you to ignore (or say no to) OUR requests.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Aug 7, 2012 10:35:47 GMT -5
I guess you didn't hang out on EE. Saw a lot of this the last year of MSN. I think there was some on YM as well the last month or two. If you didn't read often you may have missed the firestorms and the thread locks and deletions. Yes, I saw threads locked and deletions, just didn't see mods taking sides on much. Timing and observation are everything. It was there. I doubt if any regular MSN EEers missed it FWIW.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Aug 7, 2012 10:39:42 GMT -5
No, that was bad wording on my part. It's got nothing to do with who starts the thread. What I meant to say was when a thread is very clearly about something else. I can avoid threads that have titles like "let's talk about our favorite p**n!" but when a thread topic has NOTHING to do with sex and then turns into all-out graphic verbal foreplay for pages and pages, I find it annoying. Not talking about two or three posts or "ooh, you look so cute in those Minnie Mouse ears" but pages and pages of graphic descriptions of what you want to do to other posters or are currently doing to yourself in the middle of a thread about something else entirely.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Aug 7, 2012 10:40:19 GMT -5
::Please go back a page or two and find my response to Firebird as to why it was removed and not just locked. And it has nothing to do with it being a mod vs poster.::
I understand what your position is. I don't even necessarily disagree with it. I'm just pointing out what I think the perception is.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Aug 7, 2012 10:41:20 GMT -5
Milee? You're suggesting Moon put it back? Wouldn't that be like throwing gas on a fire? I say let the darn thing die. There was some very good information on there for people who really need an education as to the power dynamics of statutory rape. Exactly. And as I mentioned, reading threads like that really helped ME come to my current understanding of rape culture. I have no doubt that they are just as helpful for other people seeking to understand. And this is a subject I really, really want people to understand.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Aug 7, 2012 10:42:21 GMT -5
My question is more about in the future if things get stirred up again. Can we please lock the thread first? Threads going poof is something that is frustrating when you are in the middle of it and it is gone. If it is something like a safety issue for a poster, then a quick note on the board saying a thread was removed for the safety of a poster. Everytime threads go poof, shit-storms errupt.
Can we at least have a protocal to deal with them?
moon - I do appreciate all you do. I understand that real life has to take priority over online communities. I'm not trying to be argumentative, I just think there has to be a way to have some order once things go to shit.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2012 10:44:01 GMT -5
Please go back a page or two and find my response to Firebird as to why it was removed and not just locked. And it has nothing to do with it being a mod vs poster. With all the time and effort you and the other mods have spent defending the practice, wouldn't it make sense to redirect the energy into actually reading the Teacher/Student thread, removing anything that violates the CoC (and, other than the personal attack I mentioned, I do not remember anything that obviously violated it), and putting it back on the Board so people could make up their own mind? Let the words speak for themself. F*ck the Teacher/Student thread
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Aug 7, 2012 10:46:13 GMT -5
Wait.. so now mods can't even participate in threads? Personally, I think that's wrong. Someone has already proven that modding is a thankless job that nobody wants to do. Let's just make it even that much more thankless... And look, I'm not thrilled with WWBG at the moment either but I can say that I've never once seen him abuse his mod power until yesterday (and I didn't see that myself but I'll take the word of others who say he did it). On the contrary, he usually does his very best to keep people in line with warnings and requests for language modification rather than out-and-out deleting. He's asked me more than once to tone down a post so that he doesn't have to delete it, and I've always obliged. I find that a much more amicable approach to moderating (provided people cooperate, which is why I always do). My opinion? He's a good mod and does a good job. If he made a mistake yesterday mixing up his mod duties/powers and personal opinions, I can get past that, especially since he clearly recognizes his error and wants to make things right. I might be incredibly angry and hurt on a personal level (and I am), but as a moderator, I don't want to see him go away because of one mistake.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Aug 7, 2012 10:52:20 GMT -5
moon - I do appreciate all you do. I understand that real life has to take priority over online communities. I'm not trying to be argumentative, I just think there has to be a way to have some order once things go to shit. We had this discussion before and (I thought) the consensus was that going forward, we would get a quick note of explanation when a thread had been deleted, if nothing else to avoid the endless threads asking what happened. This time, I just assumed it was because of the content again. Every time we try to discuss victim blaming, the thread disappears. Every single time, despite being told that we are "allowed" to discuss it. It's very frustrating, but I was half-expecting that thread to be deleted from the moment it blew up yesterday and I wasn't surprised when it was.
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milee
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Post by milee on Aug 7, 2012 10:53:51 GMT -5
...:::I have not insulted anyone who questioned the removal. rather, it is you who are doing the insulting. further, it has been asked several times to drop it, which is being ignored. that's just as disrespectful in my opinion.:::...
I have done nothing but continue to respectfully state my opinion that there is a problem with the moderating structure. You have repeatedly responded by ignoring the problem and telling me to quit my "bitching" and to stop beating the "fucking dead horse". Referring to someone's legitimate complaint as "bitching" is insulting, as is the flippant manner in which it is being ignored.
The Boards are pretty slow today and you have time to continue to respond defensively to this thread, which makes the claim that there is no time to read the "Teacher" thread appear silly at best, petulant at worst.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Aug 7, 2012 10:54:23 GMT -5
So, basically every thread on EE. Which is why EE is boring, and we started YMOT...and now the EE-ers are coming over to YMOT, and doing the same thing. But, we were assured there is a difference between EE and YMOT.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Aug 7, 2012 10:56:20 GMT -5
I am kind of surprised that so many people are OK with this completely arbitrary rules that are sometimes followed sometimes not, depending on the situation, mod and the way the wind blows. The idea that this board "belongs" to one/two/three people is pretty ridiculous. When it first started, there was a concern that it will die down due to lack of new members, new conversations, etc etc. Now, every few weeks we have this nonsense of a "meltdown" when one topic gets a whole people all hot and bothered and the next thing you know, threads get locked, moved, people leave, than huff and puff and come back... Are we in high school? ? Get over it, people. What is this BS with locking threads or deleting threads or mods or administrator or throwing their "rules' - although many people don't seem to really know what those rules are?? Let the threads take its natural course, let people be rude and obnoxious -WHO CARES? ? Do you have a little magic person walking behind you in life deleting and wiping out every stupid thing you say? If one poster crosses the line - he/she will have to deal with consequences of it - what is this constant "monitoring" for?? Lena
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2012 10:57:41 GMT -5
I will be sure to PM you a copy of my posts before I put them YMOT, thyme.
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Aug 7, 2012 11:01:11 GMT -5
I thought YM OT started because someone didn't like all the OFF TOPIC stuff on YM itself, not because YMrs found EE boring. That's old news. Although, some YMrs do regularly post there.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Aug 7, 2012 11:01:12 GMT -5
So, basically every thread on EE. Which is why EE is boring, and we started YMOT...and now the EE-ers are coming over to YMOT, and doing the same thing. But, we were assured there is a difference between EE and YMOT. Yeah, and remember how we were all skeptical of that? Silly us. Clearly there was no need to be Although aside from that particular issue, I have to admit that I rather like having a YM Off-Topic board. I like it much more than I thought I would; it's nice to be able to post something that's loosely or not at all related to money without worrying about annoying anyone or getting it moved.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2012 11:02:18 GMT -5
Dang, FB. Pretty soon I will PMing you a copy of EVERY post I make!
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