thyme4change
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
Posts: 40,386
|
DQ
Aug 6, 2012 13:23:52 GMT -5
Post by thyme4change on Aug 6, 2012 13:23:52 GMT -5
|
|
lynnerself
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 3, 2011 11:42:29 GMT -5
Posts: 4,166
|
DQ
Aug 6, 2012 13:38:33 GMT -5
Post by lynnerself on Aug 6, 2012 13:38:33 GMT -5
The runner was entered in 2 distances. He did really well in the 1500 preliminary. So he quit running in the 800 to save energy. Primarily I would say, by not trying he denied someone else a chance to run in this race.
|
|
thyme4change
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
Posts: 40,386
|
DQ
Aug 6, 2012 13:59:18 GMT -5
Post by thyme4change on Aug 6, 2012 13:59:18 GMT -5
So, basically he just needs better acting lessons - so he can pretend he was working harder than he was.
|
|
hoops902
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 13:21:29 GMT -5
Posts: 11,978
|
DQ
Aug 6, 2012 14:03:04 GMT -5
Post by hoops902 on Aug 6, 2012 14:03:04 GMT -5
So, basically he just needs better acting lessons - so he can pretend he was working harder than he was. He didn't even try to act, he just stopped running. In essence he entered, then said "nah, I don't feel like running today".
|
|
lynnerself
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 3, 2011 11:42:29 GMT -5
Posts: 4,166
|
DQ
Aug 6, 2012 14:03:11 GMT -5
Post by lynnerself on Aug 6, 2012 14:03:11 GMT -5
yes, at least finish the race.
Once you qualify, why do you have to keep qualifing, or keep exhausting yourself?
If there weren't preliminary heats the choices would be let only 8 athletes in the world qualify, or run 24+ athletes all at the same time.
|
|
hoops902
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 13:21:29 GMT -5
Posts: 11,978
|
DQ
Aug 6, 2012 14:09:14 GMT -5
Post by hoops902 on Aug 6, 2012 14:09:14 GMT -5
::I think something is wrong with the Olympics. Once you qualify, why do you have to keep qualifing, or keep exhausting yourself? ::
Think of it like sport's playoffs. Just because you qualify for the playoffs doesn't mean you just have to compete one more time. You have to get through each round to advance to the finals.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Apr 24, 2024 14:55:21 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
DQ
Aug 6, 2012 14:11:32 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2012 14:11:32 GMT -5
The biggest threat to sports is the audience no longer believing that the competitors are trying to win. If that happens then sports becomes a niche entertainment product like WWE. This is why those in charge of sports come down the hardest on those who don't try. Everything else is forgivable.
|
|
swamp
Community Leader
Don't be a fool. Call me!
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 16:03:22 GMT -5
Posts: 45,309
|
DQ
Aug 6, 2012 14:12:21 GMT -5
Post by swamp on Aug 6, 2012 14:12:21 GMT -5
he's not smart enough to "trip?" He deserves to be disqualified.
|
|
Chocolate Lover
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 15:54:19 GMT -5
Posts: 23,200
|
DQ
Aug 6, 2012 14:14:40 GMT -5
Post by Chocolate Lover on Aug 6, 2012 14:14:40 GMT -5
he's not smart enough to "trip?" He deserves to be disqualified. Fake a cramp or something dude!
|
|
thyme4change
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
Posts: 40,386
|
DQ
Aug 6, 2012 14:17:12 GMT -5
Post by thyme4change on Aug 6, 2012 14:17:12 GMT -5
Exactly - he needs acting lessons.
One guy quits out of 8 runners and there are multiple heats - and that will ruin the sport? So, if a team player has a lackluster day, should we kick him off the Yankees, in case he will destroy the sport because he is distracted by his divorce?
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Apr 24, 2024 14:55:21 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
DQ
Aug 6, 2012 14:18:11 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2012 14:18:11 GMT -5
Exactly - he needs acting lessons. One guy quits out of 8 runners and there are multiple heats - and that will ruin the sport? So, if a team player has a lackluster day, should we kick him off the Yankees, in case he will destroy the sport because he is distracted by his divorce? It is the reason that Pete Rose is not in the Hall of Fame.
|
|
thyme4change
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
Posts: 40,386
|
DQ
Aug 6, 2012 14:20:02 GMT -5
Post by thyme4change on Aug 6, 2012 14:20:02 GMT -5
Pete Rose was betting on the games. Big difference.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Apr 24, 2024 14:55:21 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
DQ
Aug 6, 2012 14:24:36 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2012 14:24:36 GMT -5
Pete Rose was betting on the games. Big difference. but the reason that betting on games is the ultimate no no is because if you bet on yourself to lose, then you are no longer being competitive. If the audience believes the athletes are no longer trying their hardest to win then the sport becomes like high Jai alai.
|
|
thyme4change
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
Posts: 40,386
|
DQ
Aug 6, 2012 14:27:38 GMT -5
Post by thyme4change on Aug 6, 2012 14:27:38 GMT -5
I think we should start throwing out some of the players that don't bring their A-game, every time.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Apr 24, 2024 14:55:21 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
DQ
Aug 6, 2012 14:28:09 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2012 14:28:09 GMT -5
I think we should start throwing out some of the players that don't bring their A-game, every time. Nah. people love seeing athletes fail.
|
|
hoops902
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 13:21:29 GMT -5
Posts: 11,978
|
DQ
Aug 6, 2012 14:31:29 GMT -5
Post by hoops902 on Aug 6, 2012 14:31:29 GMT -5
I think we should start throwing out some of the players that don't bring their A-game, every time. There's a difference (a big difference I would say) between not playing your A-game, and intentionally and openly making it clear that you have no interest in winning. Even in the NBA where you see teams tanking at the end of the year, you don't see them just throwing the ball out of bounds intentionally every possession to ensure a loss. They play guys who are less skilled but who still try. I think there's a pretty large chasm between not doing your best and intentionally ensuring that you do not win.
|
|
hoops902
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 13:21:29 GMT -5
Posts: 11,978
|
DQ
Aug 6, 2012 14:32:52 GMT -5
Post by hoops902 on Aug 6, 2012 14:32:52 GMT -5
Pete Rose was betting on the games. Big difference. but the reason that betting on games is the ultimate no no is because if you bet on yourself to lose, then you are no longer being competitive. If the audience believes the athletes are no longer trying their hardest to win then the sport becomes like high Jai alai. No one is charging him with betting against himself though. The charge is that he bet on baseball, and acknowledging that he bet only on himself, they still keep him out. I agree it's a big difference with what we're talking about here.
|
|
thyme4change
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
Posts: 40,386
|
DQ
Aug 6, 2012 14:33:52 GMT -5
Post by thyme4change on Aug 6, 2012 14:33:52 GMT -5
There are a bunch of cocky a-holes who phone it in because they think they are too good to work hard.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Apr 24, 2024 14:55:21 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
DQ
Aug 6, 2012 14:34:54 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2012 14:34:54 GMT -5
but the reason that betting on games is the ultimate no no is because if you bet on yourself to lose, then you are no longer being competitive. If the audience believes the athletes are no longer trying their hardest to win then the sport becomes like high Jai alai. No one is charging him with betting against himself though. The charge is that he bet on baseball, and acknowledging that he bet only on himself, they still keep him out. I agree it's a big difference with what we're talking about here. but the reason that a player or coach betting on their sport is the biggest offense is because the appearance is that it affects competition. Why else would it be such a big deal?
|
|
hoops902
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 13:21:29 GMT -5
Posts: 11,978
|
DQ
Aug 6, 2012 14:40:35 GMT -5
Post by hoops902 on Aug 6, 2012 14:40:35 GMT -5
There are a bunch of cocky a-holes who phone it in because they think they are too good to work hard. I agree, but they still aren't TRYING to lose.
|
|
hoops902
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 13:21:29 GMT -5
Posts: 11,978
|
DQ
Aug 6, 2012 14:44:22 GMT -5
Post by hoops902 on Aug 6, 2012 14:44:22 GMT -5
::but the reason that a player or coach betting on their sport is the biggest offense is because the appearance is that it affects competition. Why else would it be such a big deal? ::
I agree, it's the appearance. I'm just saying it's not necessarily because it affects the actual competition in terms of trying to lose because you bet against yourself. It's not about "not being competitive" necessarily when it comes to gambling, the gambling issue is because of the question marks it causes. I think this issue is very directly about not being competitive. There's no question mark in these cases, it's clear and deliberate.
I'm not saying it's different in whether they are both bad for the sport, I just think it's 2 separate issues.
ETA: I think gambling is even bigger than these "not trying" issues. These issues are overt. Gambling is so insidious to sports because of the questions they generate.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Apr 24, 2024 14:55:21 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
DQ
Aug 6, 2012 14:46:47 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2012 14:46:47 GMT -5
Right. The biggest thread to sports is that the audience beleive the athletes are no longer trying to win.
|
|
thyme4change
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
Posts: 40,386
|
DQ
Aug 6, 2012 14:53:49 GMT -5
Post by thyme4change on Aug 6, 2012 14:53:49 GMT -5
What if they made a rule that you can gamble all you want - as long as your financial position was always going to be better if you win - every game.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Apr 24, 2024 14:55:21 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
DQ
Aug 6, 2012 14:55:06 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2012 14:55:06 GMT -5
What if they made a rule that you can gamble all you want - as long as your financial position was always going to be better if you win - every game. You mean like getting a bonus if you win?
|
|
hoops902
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 13:21:29 GMT -5
Posts: 11,978
|
DQ
Aug 6, 2012 15:00:56 GMT -5
Post by hoops902 on Aug 6, 2012 15:00:56 GMT -5
Right. The biggest thread to sports is that the audience beleive the athletes are no longer trying to win. I think I would say the biggest threat is when the audience is no longer sure of the athlete's motivations to win or lose. I think it's a subtle difference but important. I think people will forgive this kind of non-trying far more quickly than something like gambling to throw a game and make money. "winning" can be kind of subjective. Sometimes by trying to lose, you're trying to win (like in the badminton case, by losing you give yourself a better chance to win in the grand scheme). I think that case was far more about public relations for the Olympics, not wanting to upset those who bought tickets for the event. I also think it matters how you classify winning in your "sport". Is the sport track? Or is it the 800m? By throwing the 800M are you really doing your best to win at "track" in your better event? I think in these cases there is also a lot more ire drawn due to the obviousness of the not trying. Think about it like this: In basketball many teams tank at the end of the year to get better draft picks. People rarely boo. But think of the jeers they would draw if they were getting the ball and intentionally putting it in the opposition's basket every time? You can lose for meta-game reasons, but when you give the crowd a big middle finger by doing something so blatant like that you're going to draw a lot more punishment for alienating fans. I don't think fans really care much (and maybe even encourage) people to lose for meta reasons. There are a lot of Spanish fans who want Spain to "not try too hard" to beat Brazil in basketball so they won't face the US until the finals. But they probably don't want their team to humiliate their country by sitting down on the court the entire game to lose on purpose in obvious ways.
|
|
Driftr
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 10, 2011 13:08:15 GMT -5
Posts: 3,478
|
DQ
Aug 6, 2012 15:01:44 GMT -5
Post by Driftr on Aug 6, 2012 15:01:44 GMT -5
What a bonehead. Don't they have false starts in the 800?
|
|
hoops902
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 13:21:29 GMT -5
Posts: 11,978
|
DQ
Aug 6, 2012 15:02:55 GMT -5
Post by hoops902 on Aug 6, 2012 15:02:55 GMT -5
What if they made a rule that you can gamble all you want - as long as your financial position was always going to be better if you win - every game. The logic from the leagues is that they just don't want you gambling at all. They didn't want Michael Jordan gambling such large sums on golf, totally unrelated to basketball, because they worried what would happen if he got stuck too much money and owed it to "the wrong people". That's more the issue, getting into that kind of thing and the fear that if you gamble, even if not on your sport, how will it affect your sport if you lose too much to someone who might pressure you to fix a game.
|
|
hoops902
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 13:21:29 GMT -5
Posts: 11,978
|
DQ
Aug 6, 2012 15:06:15 GMT -5
Post by hoops902 on Aug 6, 2012 15:06:15 GMT -5
What a bonehead. Don't they have false starts in the 800? Or you can sleep in, withdraw due to cramping, etc. You just can't show up and then give the crowd a big middle finger by making it clear you're not going to try. Or you could just run the race, it's only 800m, and your other race isn't even until the next day. Just run it out, don't kill yourself, don't pull a muscle, and finish with a respectable time.
|
|
lynnerself
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 3, 2011 11:42:29 GMT -5
Posts: 4,166
|
DQ
Aug 6, 2012 17:04:43 GMT -5
Post by lynnerself on Aug 6, 2012 17:04:43 GMT -5
|
|
thyme4change
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
Posts: 40,386
|
DQ
Aug 6, 2012 17:07:20 GMT -5
Post by thyme4change on Aug 6, 2012 17:07:20 GMT -5
Boy - I hope that knee heals in a matter of hours.
|
|