susanb
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Post by susanb on Aug 1, 2012 13:20:01 GMT -5
A thread in YM got me thinking about the phrase "You can have anything you want, but not everything you want."
I think the average American can have two or three things on the following list (not inclusive), but runs into trouble when they try to have the whole list.
Nice housing Prestige car Travel Fancy clothing Gourmet food Pampering - skin care, pedicures, etc. Expensive social life - drinks out, concerts, etc. Toys - tech or outdoor Kids Your idea here
What do you think? Do you have two or three things? If so, what are they?
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Aug 1, 2012 13:22:13 GMT -5
...please define: nice prestige fancy gourmet pampering expensive ...and travel to where? ...and yes, I have several of these things...
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susanb
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Post by susanb on Aug 1, 2012 13:24:16 GMT -5
All of those terms are relative to the person's income.
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swasat
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Post by swasat on Aug 1, 2012 13:25:08 GMT -5
I agree with the previous poster. 'Nice", "fancy", "prestigious" etc all have different meanings for different people. For a family earning $40K/year, a $200K house in a nice neighborhood might be real nice. For a family with $1000K income the same $200K house might just be mediocre.
Travel is another thing. For some international travel is the only thing that cuts it. Some are just happy traveling to a neighboring state.
Some may categorize Macys as "expensive", for others expensive starts at Saks Fifth Avenue.
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susanb
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Post by susanb on Aug 1, 2012 13:27:19 GMT -5
Right. Of course. I mean that there are a few areas people can splurge on.
For example, I live in a 3,000 square foot house in a normal neighborhood, but I take international vacations and use ridiculously expensive skin cream.
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swasat
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Post by swasat on Aug 1, 2012 13:28:01 GMT -5
All of those terms are relative to the person's income. In that case I have everything on that list. With money left over at the end of every month.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Aug 1, 2012 13:30:20 GMT -5
A thread in YM got me thinking about the phrase "You can have anything you want, but not everything you want." I think the average American can have two or three things on the following list (not inclusive), but runs into trouble when they try to have the whole list. What do you think? Do you have two or three things? If so, what are they? I agree - getting a couple of things on the list is completely achievable, even if you only earn an average salary. I suppose you could have more things on the list if they were lower-ticket (e.g. crappy house/car but expensive food, clothes, beauty items, bar tabs, etc.) We gross about 2x the median wage in this area and have: - Nice house (4br, 6-acre lot) - Maxed retirement accounts - Mid-level food/entertainment/social life - Mid-level electronics (iPhones, iPad, etc.) To balance it out: - Very cheap/old cars; - No expensive vacations - No kids - Fairly cheap beauty/health regimens.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Aug 1, 2012 13:36:46 GMT -5
I spend quite a bit on traveling both domestically and internationally because it is "my thing." I have an active social life but I wouldn't classify it as expensive. I use decent skin care products but not over the top.
On the other hand, I rent a one bedroom apt, own a paid off car that is worth about 7K, and definitely don't eat gourmet food.
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Aug 1, 2012 13:43:35 GMT -5
...I'll go again, but this time answering for some of my "welfare rat" friends... Nice housing? ...wall to wall, w/i closets, all appliances, balconies/patios, yes... it's nice... Prestige car? ...younger than 5yo car and SUVs/towing capacity for no loads, yes... it's prestige... Travel? ...frequent Saturday day trips and 1-2/yr vacations to beach, yes... that counts... Fancy clothing? ...some labels, lots of choices, many changes, holes in jeans that were planned, yes... that counts, too... Gourmet food? ...able to eat take out at least 1/wk and BBQ steaks/seafood on the grill monthly... yes, that also counts, imo... Pampering - skin care, pedicures, etc.? ...don't get me started on the hair extensions, nails, etc... Expensive social life - drinks out, concerts, etc.? ...see above... Toys - tech or outdoor? ...iPhones, iPads, iTVs, you name it... Kids? ...yes, each with more checks coming in... Your idea here? ...I think you get the idea...
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Aug 1, 2012 13:51:35 GMT -5
From a previous thread susanb mentioned, I think she and I are in totally different social/wealth stratas. To me, a 3,000sqft house isn't nice, it's bigger than it needs to be. My house has 2200sq ft, if you count the unfinished basement. 1100sqft of real living space. To me, my house is nice, but I'm guessing susanb wouldn't consider it so. We now have 2 TDI VWs. People here have commented that they can't believe how much we paid for our used one with 180k miles. Where we live, TDIs are prestige cars, but once again, I doubt susanb would think so. (I am not trying to rag on susanb just point out that this is very much about perception.)
So if my house is nice, per my definition, and my cars are prestige, per my perception, by her reasoning, I might be able to afford kids, but certainly not if I want to eat gourmet food, get pedicures, travel, and have tech toys. Except that we already eat very high quality food, which my husband can prepare in gourmet ways (though he does not have the gourmet kitchen of his dreams), numerous tech toys, and we plan travel every few years. In addition to that, while I don't get pedicures as often as I used to, I still get them a few times a year with friends. We don't have fancy clothes, but you should see the money we spend on costuming.
We're doing all of this without incurring any consumer debt and putting enough away in savings that we're pretty confident we'll be able to pay for private school for our child, once said child is old enough for school.
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Formerly SK
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Post by Formerly SK on Aug 1, 2012 13:56:55 GMT -5
Nice housing - Nicer than average for city (city is 150K, we're 250K) but average for area of city we live in (per Zillow) Prestige car - no (both bought for <$15K) Travel - no, unless camping counts Fancy clothing - no...we're Kohls people Gourmet food - no, unless fresh produce counts? Pampering - skin care, pedicures, etc. - no...I even cut my dc's hair. DH gets $10 haircuts. I cut my hair every 4-6 months. Expensive social life - drinks out, concerts, etc. - no Toys - tech or outdoor - no Kids - YES I think having kids is as expensive as all other areas combined.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Aug 1, 2012 14:00:22 GMT -5
Susab said "the average American." You and your DH earn about 2x the median salary, correct? So maybe if the average American can afford 2-3 things on the list, you can afford 4-6. I don't think she was saying everyone is limited to only a few items.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Aug 1, 2012 14:00:34 GMT -5
My house would be nice to some, but I could afford better, so I would say I don't have that. My car would be nice to some, but they aren't the luxury brands that most of our friends drive, so I would say I don't have that. We travel, so I would have to say we have that. Gourmet food - we have some, but not every day. Maybe once a week if you include our cooking and dining out. So, I don't know if I should check that has "have." Pampering - I go to a nice salon every 6 weeks, and I get a pedi twice a year. Again, I spend less than so many that I know, but more than I need to - so another half have? Toys - We have some things, I guess my husband's bike is a pretty expensive toy - but we don't have a lot of stuff. Half-have. Kids - Check, and boy do they cost us!
2 "Haves" and 3 half-haves.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Aug 1, 2012 14:02:54 GMT -5
I think retirement savings/taxes should be on the "haves" list, too. It's a lot easier to have a nice house and nice cars if you actually get to see more than 50% of your paycheck!
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Aug 1, 2012 14:07:06 GMT -5
Looking at wikipedia for Seattle, I do make more than both the household and family median incomes- not quite 2x as much as the median household income, 1.33x as much as the median family income. (DH doesn't make any money, he spends mine ) Though, looking at the median home prices, we bought our house for roughly 66% of the current median price, and it's worth even less than that now. So maybe it doesn't qualify as nice at all. ;D
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susanb
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Post by susanb on Aug 1, 2012 14:08:49 GMT -5
From a previous thread susanb mentioned, I think she and I are in totally different social/wealth stratas. To me, a 3,000sqft house isn't nice, it's bigger than it needs to be. My house has 2200sq ft, if you count the unfinished basement. 1100sqft of real living space. To me, my house is nice, but I'm guessing susanb wouldn't consider it so. We now have 2 TDI VWs. People here have commented that they can't believe how much we paid for our used one with 180k miles. Where we live, TDIs are prestige cars, but once again, I doubt susanb would think so. (I am not trying to rag on susanb just point out that this is very much about perception.) So if my house is nice, per my definition, and my cars are prestige, per my perception, by her reasoning, I might be able to afford kids, but certainly not if I want to eat gourmet food, get pedicures, travel, and have tech toys. Except that we already eat very high quality food, which my husband can prepare in gourmet ways (though he does not have the gourmet kitchen of his dreams), numerous tech toys, and we plan travel every few years. In addition to that, while I don't get pedicures as often as I used to, I still get them a few times a year with friends. We don't have fancy clothes, but you should see the money we spend on costuming. We're doing all of this without incurring any consumer debt and putting enough away in savings that we're pretty confident we'll be able to pay for private school for our child, once said child is old enough for school. Sorry if I touched a nerve on this or another thread. Of course, all of this is relative. I mean splurges for you/your income. My car is a 10 year old Honda. DH drives a 12 year old car that is nowhere near as swanky as a VW.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Aug 1, 2012 14:14:32 GMT -5
I've made less than average for a few years and I don't think I have anything on that list at least regularly. On rare occasions I buy better than average skin care/cosmetics or food but nowhere near how I spent when my income was above average. I don't get EITC because I don't have children. Lack of planning on my part?
For various periods over a decade ago I probably regularly fit in these categories: Nice housing Travel Gourmet food Pampering - skin care,
I did get a Prestige car but honestly a fully loaded Honda Pilot or close to cost just as much. I got it in spite of its Prestige name not because of it. Its old now, so not too much prestige especially given all that really needs to be fixed.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Aug 1, 2012 14:19:51 GMT -5
I really don't have any of those things. I guess you could say I have "toys" but I hardly consider a computer, TV, and an XBOX that big on toys.
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lynnerself
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Post by lynnerself on Aug 1, 2012 14:21:04 GMT -5
Currently we have several of those things. Kids (grown), travel, food,house, social life. I think I could manage almost all of those things if I was willing to postpone retirement a few years. Currently we save over $60000 a year. If I cut that in half I could probably up my lifestyle considerably.
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Aug 1, 2012 14:23:27 GMT -5
susanb: No real nerve touched, but it is really about perception. I think I can have multiple things on your list, but that may be because my perception of "nice" or "prestigious" does not match other people's. When you talked about prestigious cars, were you thinking about VWs or were you thinking about Acura's, Mercedes, BMW, etc? A Prius V is almost $30k does that count as a prestigious car? To some people yes, to others, no. For some, simply having a car is makes it prestigious. I own (have a mortgage on) my home. For some, simply the fact that I don't rent means I live in a nice house. To others, the fact that I have a house (vs an apartment/condo) means I live in a nice house. I like my house. I think it's a nice house, but as I said, it's a pretty inexpensive house in my area. I certainly have friends with MUCH nicer houses. So do I live in a "nice" house or not?
To me, I think I can have pretty much everything I want, but it has more to do with managing my expectations, and the way I view the world. However, an outsider may look at my house and say it's not that nice, my cars are really prestige brands, etc, and therefore, I would fit your chart of only being able to have some things on your list but not all. Personally, I prefer to think that I can have everything I want, if I manage it properly. ;D
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Aug 1, 2012 14:28:01 GMT -5
I guess my breakdown would be.
Mid level Apartment (two bedroom in a decent area) Non existant social life Cheap car No Kids Mid Level Electronic Toys Low level Cosmetics and "pampering" (pert plus is fine with me) Low level entertainment Low level travel (couple of cross country trips to visit family/friends) Mid level food (I eat cheap at home, but eat out more than many) Mid level clothing (name brand from department stores like JC penny, but not what I'd call "fancy")
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susanb
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Post by susanb on Aug 1, 2012 14:32:39 GMT -5
Shanendoah:
I mean prestigious for you, or whoever is responding. When I said prestige, I was thinking, a stretch for your income/comfort level.
I use creme de la mer. For me, it is crazy expensive and, relative to the rest of my life, a splurge. Maybe you have more balance. My neighborhood is pretty working class because in Vegas a 3k square foot house is pretty inexpensive, but I spend a lot (relatively) in a couple of other areas.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Aug 1, 2012 14:40:03 GMT -5
The only thing I have that is prestigious for our income is how well behaved our children are.
I discovered a while ago that I was never going to be able to impress people, so I stopped trying. I don't give a shit if they think I have too much, or too little, or if they think they are better than me, or they look down on my car. If they think I need something better, I'm accepting gifts.
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susanb
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Post by susanb on Aug 1, 2012 14:40:42 GMT -5
The only thing I have that is prestigious for our income is how well behaved our children are. Priceless
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Aug 1, 2012 14:51:43 GMT -5
A thread in YM got me thinking about the phrase "You can have anything you want, but not everything you want." ------------------ I've never heard of this phrase. I've heard of "You can have everything you NEED, but not everything you want." I have everything I need. Is is fancy or spendy? No, but it's everything I need, so I'm golden.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Aug 1, 2012 14:55:48 GMT -5
Why didn't somebody show me that list before I had kids??? I totally would have gone with all of the above and no mini me's. Sigh....
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Aug 1, 2012 15:01:03 GMT -5
That is discouraging. It sounds like I can't get anything I want. Like I'm just going to work to fulfill my basic needs. Aren't we past that? At least the other things says "Pick a couple of luxuries, just keep it reasonable."
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GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl
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Post by GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl on Aug 1, 2012 15:06:09 GMT -5
The only thing I have that is prestigious for our income is how well behaved our children are. I discovered a while ago that I was never going to be able to impress people, so I stopped trying. I don't give a shit if they think I have too much, or too little, or if they think they are better than me, or they look down on my car. If they think I need something better, I'm accepting gifts. The more I get to "know" you, Thyme, the more I think we'd be friends in RL. ;D
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Aug 1, 2012 15:30:50 GMT -5
Hmm, I can't really calculate that.
In the small, relatively poor rural area where I live, I live in what's considered the wealthy subdivision. The fact that DH and I go out to eat every other week or so, and eat at nicer restaurants, is probably unusual for that town. The fact that we purchase our clothes at higher end stores at the mall and not Walmart and that we go on week long vacations to somewhat distant areas is probably also unusual for most people in that town.
However if you climb a mountain and slip over into a neighboring county, you would be in a very high end residential community, very old money, many historic older homes, country club, etc. There our house, our clothes, our restaurants, our vacations would all pale in comparison to what the old money Biffy and Misty types have.
So living in our little rural town, we're considered to have most of the items on the list. If we lived in the old money mansion area, we would be only one step over the trailer park people. So I don't know how to answer that.
So yes indeed perception is everything.
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Aug 1, 2012 15:31:22 GMT -5
In that sense, the only prestigious thing we are doing is adopting, and even that not so much. Our mortgage was a stretch in the beginning, but not anymore. The first VW was a stretch when we bought it because we did 3 year financing, but it's now paid off and we paid cash for the second one. We are cash flowing DH's education with no problems. The adoption, if we go with infant relinquishment would have been a stretch, but we ended up getting over 3x what we were expecting in life insurance from the MIL, so that covers that. DH will be past the point where we're paying for his education by the time a kid is in school, so we should be able to cash flow private school, if that's what we choose to do. We have allowances that cover pedicures and toys, and we save up in advance for travel. I think that by your definition, I would have nothing (vs even some things) since we don't stretch for them, and by my definition, I get to have it all. So I like my definition better.
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