zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 27, 2012 17:24:24 GMT -5
War on poverty had an unintended result.
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milee
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Post by milee on Jul 27, 2012 17:59:41 GMT -5
Rae, that is a great point...I was not bombarded by violence as a child. If it happened, it was covered on the nightly news and then it was over. We also didn't listen to gangta rap and the extent of my video games was PacMan When I turned 18 I started hanging out in some bad places. That was when I learned that a lot of stuff happened that didn't make the news. I'd hear about people that got shot and/or killed, but it never made the news. My city has been violent for a long time, but as long as the bad guys were just killing each other we could pretend it wasn't happening. Very true. Our city is largely old, rich people and extremely low crime. Except for one area that's well known and obvious. Bad things happen there and unless a person from outside that one small geographic area is involved, it barely gets a one sentence mention in the back pages of the Local section of the paper. I remember first thinking about this a couple of years ago when I was skimming the back of the Local section and found a couple of sentences about how the prior night neighbors had discovered a small child alone with the body of his mother who had been brutally killed in their apartment; no leads on who killed or and there was doubt over how long she'd been dead. WTF? If she had been a person living outside this one, small bad area, this would be front page news, but I'm guessing because she was a hooker, druggie, or some other criminal type her death wasn't important enough to mention? Big news was when a couple of English trust fund baby tourists wandered into this bad area in the wee hours of the morning, totally drunk and (everybody guesses) looking to buy drugs. They were both shot and killed on a back street. Of course this was front page news and prompted a big media push about ending the violence. I wanted to ask them - oh, you mean that violence that nobody outside the 'hood hears about because it's not even important enough to write an article about when someone other than wealthy outsiders get killed?
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jul 27, 2012 18:01:17 GMT -5
The thing we may all be missing may be the size of the populations where the violence is occurring... in a city of 3 MILLION people is a murder a day really something out of the ordinanry? Does the media reporting on this stuff day and night make it seem out of the ordinary (like there's more violence)? I live in a city of 3.6 million. We've had 16 murders this year. So, yes, I consider a murder a day as something out of the ordinary.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jul 27, 2012 18:04:03 GMT -5
Just a few weeks ago we had 3 teenagers (well, I thnk one was 21) gunned down and before they even found the guys that shot them, I said "I bet they are from Philly and I bet I won't be able to pronounce their names'....they were both from Philly and the one I couldn't pronounce his name. ----------------- I'm not following. What kind of names were they? Greek? Armenian? Laotian?
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milee
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Post by milee on Jul 27, 2012 18:04:49 GMT -5
The thing we may all be missing may be the size of the populations where the violence is occurring... in a city of 3 MILLION people is a murder a day really something out of the ordinanry? Does the media reporting on this stuff day and night make it seem out of the ordinary (like there's more violence)? I live in a city of 3.6 million. We've had 16 murders this year. So, yes, I consider a murder a day as something out of the ordinary. Yeah, but I'm not sure it's really a fair comparison. After all, you guys are just too polite to get out there and kill each other for the most part. Also, it's so dang cold that all those layers of clothing probably serves as protection against knives and maybe even bullets. If I lived somewhere that cold, not only would I be wearing enough clothing that no bullet could possibly penetrate, but I'd be shivering too much to aim a gun properly.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jul 27, 2012 18:07:52 GMT -5
Lol! Yes, only surface-to-air missiles can penetrate our outerwear.
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milee
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Post by milee on Jul 27, 2012 18:08:28 GMT -5
Just a few weeks ago we had 3 teenagers (well, I thnk one was 21) gunned down and before they even found the guys that shot them, I said "I bet they are from Philly and I bet I won't be able to pronounce their names'....they were both from Philly and the one I couldn't pronounce his name. ----------------- I'm not following. What kind of names were they? Greek? Armenian? Laotian? See, every area has its names that seem destined for trouble. Growing up where I did, the trash was named things like Misty and Amber. When I lived in NC for a while, those weren't necessarily trashy names, but were often pole dancers. My one poor friend named Carla lamented the fact that with a name like that she was bound to be a hooker or stripper. Now, many decades later in this same area, the trashy names are still Amber and Misty, but also the ones that seem to be compositions of many different names (or mothers who couldn't spell), like Laqueeshiana. In Phoenix, I don't really remember any particular names that necessarily connoted trouble as so many names were common to both the criminals and good guys.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 27, 2012 18:10:56 GMT -5
"Now, many decades later in this same area, the trashy names are still Amber and Misty, but also the ones that seem to be compositions of many different names (or mothers who couldn't spell), like Laqueeshiana. "
LOL!!! Yep, and the kid whose name I couldn't pronounce had a made up name
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Malarky
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Post by Malarky on Jul 27, 2012 18:12:15 GMT -5
Just a few weeks ago we had 3 teenagers (well, I thnk one was 21) gunned down and before they even found the guys that shot them, I said "I bet they are from Philly and I bet I won't be able to pronounce their names'....they were both from Philly and the one I couldn't pronounce his name. ----------------- I'm not following. What kind of names were they? Greek? Armenian? Laotian? Canada is a place where the population is a bit more homogeneous. Not so in the USA. Sometimes it's disingenuous to compare the US to Canada.
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milee
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Post by milee on Jul 27, 2012 18:16:53 GMT -5
Does anybody remember that poster on the old Money Board - name was something like ___Shadow... something w/2 "s"s and signed his posts w/ "-M"?
He posted about how his wife was having difficulty getting interviews and wondered if her very ethnic sounding name might be causing a problem. Don't remember what her name was, maybe something like "Lakeesha", but there was a pretty fierce debate about what names implied, fair or not.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 27, 2012 18:18:59 GMT -5
"He posted about how his wife was having difficulty getting interviews and wondered if her very ethnic sounding name might be causing a problem. Don't remember what her name was, maybe something like "Lakeesha", but there was a pretty fierce debate about what names implied, fair or not. "
I remember that and I remember that one of the regulars (I think I remember who but I don't want to say) said she had a very ethnic name and it has caused her problems...I admit, there are names that I see and I automatically think "ghetto gangbanger"....
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jul 27, 2012 18:19:26 GMT -5
Canada is a place where the population is a bit more homogeneous. ----------------- Not as much as you think. It's as much of the proverbial melting pot as the US. This is not the first time I've heard this. Why does everyone think we're all white up here?
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jul 27, 2012 18:27:23 GMT -5
Canada is a place where the population is a bit more homogeneous. ----------------- Not as much as you think. It's as much of the proverbial melting pot as the US. This is not the first time I've heard this. Why does everyone think we're all white up here? Because you are Seriously I am fully aware that there are huge east Indian and Asian communities in Ottawa, Toronto and Montreal. I know this because they are all swarming around me when I visit those cities.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2012 18:39:42 GMT -5
Not as much as you think. It's as much of the proverbial melting pot as the US. This is not the first time I've heard this. Why does everyone think we're all white up here? I've heard that said before too. I went searching and found this: politicalcalculations.blogspot.com/2011/03/us-vs-canada-comparing-apples-to-apples.htmlIt indicates there's an ~11% minority population in Canada, versus ~33% in the United States. The article cites the US Census Bureau and Statistics Canada, but I couldn't find other sites to back up this article. Please let me know if you have something different, I'm honestly curious.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jul 27, 2012 18:49:26 GMT -5
Our visible minorities are concentrated in the big cities. Montreal is about 28% visible minority. Toronto is 50% and Vancouver is 40%.
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constanz22
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Post by constanz22 on Jul 27, 2012 18:52:30 GMT -5
Thanks Beach! What you are describing is pretty much my childhood...don't get me wrong, it was no peaches and roses...but most of the people were just lazy asses in the government housing where I lived...I lived there for 10 years and in those 10 years there was not one shooting, stabbing, etc. I'm sure someone got knocked around now and then but taht was in. My next door neighbor was a pot dealer but she was just a happy, mellow person What I have noticed is in the last 15 or so years we have had quite a bit of transplants from Philly and NYC and they ahve brought a lot of violence with them. We do have shootings locally now and most are drug related and the majority involve people from Philly or NYC. Just a few weeks ago we had 3 teenagers (well, I thnk one was 21) gunned down and before they even found the guys that shot them, I said "I bet they are from Philly and I bet I won't be able to pronounce their names'....they were both from Philly and the one I couldn't pronounce his name. And the shooter was 16 years old and his 18 year old brother was with him. And the 18 year old brother was shot in the leg in a drug deal gone bad two years ago when he was 16! So what has change that the poor are now violent? Or have the big cities always been violent and they are now they are migrating to my blue collar county? I forgot that I'm just up the pike from you. I saw this case on the news. I work in Binghamton and we see similar trends, but they are all coming from NYC. Binghamton is a 2 hour, straight shot on the bus from NYC. Broome County is noted as one of the easiest counties in NY to get public assistance in, so, yes, there definitely is a correlation. I know the general area you live in, and, yes, it has gotten SO bad in the last 10-15 years. My education is Criminal Justice and employment history is social work. I think there is a multitude of reasons for this. I do see a lot of the thugs moving to where they have less competition, ie, smaller cities, but bringing the big city problems with them. There have been more and more laws and public policy, including welfare laws, that penalize married and 2 parent families, encouraging single mothers on welfare. I have worked with my share of "poor" people, and, yes, there is a distinct difference of "poor" people who are proud, hard working, respectable people and there are the ghetto poor, that welfare, drugs, and crime are a way of life. The entitlement segment of society, gimme, gimme, gimme, you owe me, you gotta pay my rent, you gotta buy my food, my money is MY money, and I have met more than my share of them, also. I don't buy into the whole "well they can't find a job, they can't buy food, they are just frustrated" bullshit. It's a valid "career" or life path for many of these people. I don't know how to change it, either. I'm glad I don't have kids or probably wouldn't be able to do the job I do.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jul 27, 2012 18:53:36 GMT -5
I work with many, many Jamaicans, Haitians, Africans and Trinidadians. Sometimes, I'm the only Caucasian working on my unit, so it surprises me to hear we're so homogenous up here.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 27, 2012 18:58:08 GMT -5
"I have worked with my share of "poor" people, and, yes, there is a distinct difference of "poor" people who are proud, hard working, respectable people and there are the ghetto poor, that welfare, drugs, and crime are a way of life"
Exactly what I was trying to say...I have no problem with hard-working poor people...what is unfortunate is that their neighborhoods are being ruined by the ghetto poor moving in from the big cities...Granted, looking at our homicide statistics it isn't horrible but most of the murders are concentrated in the poor areas...save for the occasional murder of a spouse, lover, etc., murders in teh more affluent suburbs are quite rare. And I know our crime rate is still minimal compare to the bigger cities, the fact is the trend is scaring me.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 27, 2012 19:00:03 GMT -5
"I work with many, many Jamaicans, Haitians, Africans and Trinidadians. Sometimes, I'm the only Caucasian working on my unit, so it surprises me to hear we're so homogenous up here."
it could be the area that you live versus canada. There is much more racial diversity in the bigger cities (Philly, NYC, etc) than where I live.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2012 19:05:29 GMT -5
One of the kindergarten teachers said the worst thing that happened to the black community was bussing.
I disagree. I'll leave it at that. I live in an area that's way behind the times when it comes to racial harmony, but that isn't what this thread is about. It's about poor people, not necessarily poor black people.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 27, 2012 19:08:24 GMT -5
"It's about poor people, not necessarily poor black people. "
I agree...the ghetto mentality that I am speaking about is not limited to black people...the three kids that were shot that I spoke about earlier were white...if you saw pictures of them that the media posted they screamed "ghetto gangta"...it's hard to explain...hat tiipped sideways, cocky look, making some dumbass thing wtih their fingers (sideways V?)...if I was walking down teh street and saw them, I would cross...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2012 19:32:58 GMT -5
I work with many, many Jamaicans, Haitians, Africans and Trinidadians. Sometimes, I'm the only Caucasian working on my unit, so it surprises me to hear we're so homogenous up here. I hear you. There was only 2 black kids, 1 asian guy, and handful of hispanic kids at my public high school of just under 1000 students in California. I remember being taken aback by diversity statistics for the US, thinking "wait, what?" Our schools had open districts, so we weren't locked into housing clusters either. I dunno what happened there.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Jul 27, 2012 19:34:25 GMT -5
Canada is a place where the population is a bit more homogeneous. ----------------- Not as much as you think. It's as much of the proverbial melting pot as the US. This is not the first time I've heard this. Why does everyone think we're all white up here? I was thinking maybe it was the lack of sunlight and all that heavy protective clothing?
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Malarky
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Post by Malarky on Jul 27, 2012 19:38:22 GMT -5
Canada is a place where the population is a bit more homogeneous. ----------------- Not as much as you think. It's as much of the proverbial melting pot as the US. This is not the first time I've heard this. Why does everyone think we're all white up here? My limited experience? Hearsay?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2012 20:22:38 GMT -5
Canada is a place where the population is a bit more homogeneous. ----------------- Not as much as you think. It's as much of the proverbial melting pot as the US. This is not the first time I've heard this. Why does everyone think we're all white up here? My limited experience? Hearsay? It is the ignorant American with a bad education thing. We have little understanding of Canada. It's sad.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2012 20:29:55 GMT -5
I'm hesitant to say this, but since I think a lot of people missed it...
It seems like Canada actually IS a lot more homogeneous. Post 77 has a link to an article that cites the US Census Bureau and Statistics Canada.
Roughly 1 in 3 people in the US is a minority, and roughly 1 in 10 is a minority in Canada.
*edit for summary
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2012 20:31:46 GMT -5
My limited experience? Hearsay? It is the ignorant American with a bad education thing. We have little understanding of Canada. It's sad. What is it we need to know about Canada anyway?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2012 20:54:45 GMT -5
What is it we need to know about Canada anyway? Lol, well, I figure until we jump the petri dish and begin actual interstellar travel, we're all on one ship together. Learning about people is part being able to rub along more or less peaceably
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 27, 2012 21:31:56 GMT -5
I wasn't referring to the black community. The teacher was black and he was against bussing because he went to a segregated school and he was the one who said bussing and govt money for unwed mothers was the death of the black community. I figured he knew what heWas talking about since he lived in it and experienced it.
at King about since he lived and experienced it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2012 22:16:43 GMT -5
I wasn't referring to the black community. The teacher was black and he was against bussing because he went to a segregated school and he was the one who said bussing and govt money for unwed mothers was the death of the black community. I figured he knew what heWas talking about since he lived in it and experienced it. at King about since he lived and experienced it. I still disagree that bussing was the worst thing that happened to the black community, regardless of who made the statement. I also disagree that bussing led to the death of the black community. If it matters, I'm black.
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