Protecting kids vs making them scared

[mandyms]

Kind of a combination of the "instincts thread" and this article I saw this morning....

fox4kc.com/2012/07/24/florida-man-linked-to-johnson-county-child-porn-case/

"Agents have now arrested Brown, a popular puppeteer, who on Facebook brags about performing in schools, malls and even for the Tampa Bay Rays. In May, federal agents arrested Arnett at his home at the corner of West Juniper and West 55th Street in Roeland Park. In a new development, agents say they seized Brown’s computer and that they tracked online conversations between Arnett and Brown on Yahoo about “kidnapping kids and eating them."

DD is 4 and we've had the discussion about strangers and that her body is private. This article literally scares the shit out of me...WTF is wrong with people?

I bring up the discussion about things like this maybe once a month; in one discussion DD thought strangers wore masks and were obvious to identify from "regular people." So it's a work in progress....but I'm finding a fine line of continuing to keep the lines of communication open and educating her about staying safe, but at the same time I worry sometimes that I will say something that will make her scared of people in general. Especially with molestation and the stats that most victims know their abusers. Where's the balance?

[swamp]

The balance is you don't leave your kid alone with the nice guy who really likes kids and wants to take yours on a special trip.

[Firebird]

Beats the hell out of me

I think what DH and I will aim for is a balance. We want Babybird to know there are bad people out there who don't necessarily want the best for her the way we do, but we don't want her cowering in fear either. As she gets older, I will tell her more and more.

It will always be a fine line to walk.

[swasat]

Let me know when you find the balance.

For us, educating the kids on whats safe vs unsafe is a constant work in progress. I have a 7 and a 4 year old. We drill this stuff into them once or twice every month. I ask them casually every now and then if everything is going ok at school and daycare and if anyone touched them in a way that made them uncomfortable. I also casually tell them to use their voices and yell if someone forces them.

I know that a balance is hard to find. Personally, I have seen with my kids that they forget what we tell them about strangers etc pretty quickly. If I don't remind them often they will not remember it. So we try to keep the topic alive.

I'd rather be safe than sorry. I am hopeful that as they grow older they will remember what we taught them and they will also gain an understanding of appropriate vs inappropriate. But with young children what else can you do other than talk to them constantly about it.

[Firebird]

The balance is you don't leave your kid alone with the nice guy who really likes kids and wants to take yours on a special trip.

Obviously. But it's not always that obvious. Of course parents have a duty to protect their kids but it's difficult when you didn't realize you should have been keeping them away from their grandpa or their aunt or their cousin or their teacher.

[Sam_2.0]

The uncle situation happened to me when I was younger. And everyone ignored my screams (my parents were gone). I already told DH I am going to never let Aly spend the night at other people's houses. He's going to have to be the voice of reason there because I think I will be completely irrational about it. But I don't want to turn into the complete helicopter mom either.

One thing I will stress to her is to tell a trusted adult if someone does things that make you feel uncomfortable. And if they don't listen to you, tell another adult. I told my grandma about my uncle, but she told me I was lying. I didn't tell my parents because I didn't think they would believe me either since grandma didn't. And if my kid shows signs of not being comfortable around someone, I won't make her stay with them.

[swamp]

Jul 26, 2012 9:58:12 GMT -5 Firebird said:

The balance is you don't leave your kid alone with the nice guy who really likes kids and wants to take yours on a special trip.

Obviously. But it's not always that obvious. Of course parents have a duty to protect their kids but it's difficult when you didn't realize you should have been keeping them away from their grandpa or their aunt or their cousin or their teacher.

Oh, believe me, I know that. There was a family issue with DH that has made me very sensitive to this issue.

The funny thing is that this guy gave me the willies from the time I met him, and I couldn't figure out why. He seemed like a good guy and I had no reason to doubt him. I did have good reason as he was later found to be molesting his step daughter.

If someone gives you a bad vibe, listen to it.

[raeoflyte]

What age did you start talking to your kids about this stuff? DS is 3 and just in the last few months goes to the nursery at my gym for 2-3 hours a week. Other than that he is with us or a family member 24/7.

I'm thinking we should start talking about this stuff now.

[mandyms]

Jul 26, 2012 10:09:24 GMT -5 swamp said:

If someone gives you a bad vibe, listen to it.

I that's part of the issue, like Firebird mentioned in the instincts thread. Ever since I had DD, it's been "what if" this and "what about them" that. So I guess I get a vibe about "everyone." That's part of the reason I don't date (besides being exhausted and having very little free time). I used to work for a prison and was very sorry to ever learn about some of the reasons people were in there. We have had some of DD's friends stay over at our house for sleepovers; even though we have gotten an invite reciprocated, I would have a difficult time letting her go even though I know the parents.

[swamp]

I have kids, and I worry about what could happen.

I also refuse to cave to the fear and am sending them out in the world to enjoy it and experience it. We talk about "good touch/bad touch" and private parts, and tell them to tell us immediately if anything weird happens.

You just have to trust.

And if someone gives me a bad vibe, I don't necessarily run away screaming, but I just up the observations a notch and don't let my kids be alone with them.

[mandyms]

Rae, I think I started when DD was 3 or 3 1/2.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Gwen is only two but one thing we do is we never make her "be polite" and hug people or let people touch her if she doesn't want to. I got pissed at MIL's church when all these elderly people wanted to touch her and when she hid behind my leg they were annoyed at how rude she was.

I told DH I WANT her to be "rude" because why teh hell should strangers be touching her in any size/shape/form if she doesn't want them to?

To me encourgaing her to allow them to touch heris teaching her that it is okay for everyone to lay their hands on her and that it si rude to tell people "no". Kids should not be told it is rude to not allow strangers to handle them.

Which is going to make it that much harder should, God forbid, someone touch her inappropriately to realize it is wrong and tell us.

Nobody should be allowed to touch her if it makes her uncomfortable. I don't want a bunch of strangers pawing at me, why is it considered acceptable to do that to a toddler? She should have the same right to personal space I do. I don't care if that makes me a bitch, she's my kid.

Our pediatrican said the same thing when she fought him tooth/nail during an exam. He said that is exactly the reaction I want her to have when someone is touching her and she don't want to be touched.

[Firebird]

Gwen is only two but one thing we do is we never make her "be polite" and hug people or let people touch her if she doesn't want to. I got pissed at MIL's church when all these elderly people wanted to touch her and when she hid behind my leg they were annoyed at how rude she was.



I HATE THAT. Kids are people too, and they deserve to have their personal boundaries respected. Not all kids are huggers and forcing that kind of affection out of a kid who doesn't want to give it... well, yeah. I just am really curious about people who do that. Is that really the kind of person they are aiming to be?

ETA: Not talking about necessary touching against their will, e.g. medical. That's unavoidable and of course they need to be forced into that if necessary. Just talking about ostensibly voluntary affection.

[Firebird]

I also wonder about parents who force their kids to be okay with hugging and affectionate touching against their will. What kind of mixed message does that send when you then try to tell them that they should run like hell if a stranger wants to touch them in an inappropriate way? Kids don't really do subtle distinction.

[zibazinski]

I never made my kids hug or kiss anyone they didn't want to. Yes, I got judged and, yes, I'd didn't give a damn. EX made noises at me but I told him to stuff it. His family is creepy anyway. I don't blame my kids at all. Funny enough, strangers or people at church were more understanding. I insisted that both kids learn to shake hands and say hello but that was IT! One was manners, the other is an invasion of their privacy.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

As Gwen gets older we'll distinguish between when we need to help and the pediatrican needs to exam vs other people.

Right now our pedi said he doesn't mind her reaction at all and doesn't want me to encourage her to be still, that the reaction she is giving now is exactly the one I want her to be having.

I told DH that I believe it sends a child mixed messages when you insist they be touched or touch strangers. I said you breed into a kid that it is "rude" to not allow someone to touch you against your will.

I want Gwen to know that it is perfectly acceptable to be "rude" when it comes to other people. You do not want to be touched, then you do not allow them to touch you. That is an easy thing for me to teach her from day one by observing her behavior and responding to it by telling people she does not want to be touched. I am hoping it also is teaching her that mommy listens and will protect you.

As she is able to talk we will discuss that if anyone wants to touch you against your will you tell us or another person you trust (grandma/grandpa, uncle etc).

[The Home 6]

My kids are very outgoing ("I just met this girl, she is my best friend!") and I have to tell them that we can smile at everyone and talk to people ONLY when Mommy or Daddy are around.

Having outgoing kids does protect them to some degree, I think. For an example, my kids know a lot of employees at our grocery store. While I was at class one day, my babysitter took them there (I was totally okay with this, BTW). No less than 3 employees asked my sitter, "What the E are you doing with these kids? They aren't yours!"

At least she had a good attitude about it.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Family has been great about respecting Gwen's "bubble" as daycare calls it. DH clucked about the church but not only did I tell him to stuff it, so did his mom.

[Firebird]

"This leads to children getting sexually abused, teen girls submitting to sexual behavior so 'he'll like me' and kids enduring bullying because everyone is 'having fun.' "

Makes sense to me

[alabamagal]

Well after the Sandusky thing, I asked my 17 yr old son who played high school football and went to boy scout camp if he ever showered with adults. Thankfully the answer was no. But if mine were younger I would definitely tell them that it is not appropriate to shower with an adult.

[happyhoix]

Jul 26, 2012 10:31:32 GMT -5 Firebird said:

I also wonder about parents who force their kids to be okay with hugging and affectionate touching against their will. What kind of mixed message does that send when you then try to tell them that they should run like hell if a stranger wants to touch them in an inappropriate way? Kids don't really do subtle distinction.

You run into the same problem when you try to teach your kid about respecting adults. On the one hand, you want them to obey their teacher or grandma or babysitter, but on the other hand you don't want them climbing into someone's car because a stern voiced adult told them they had to.

It's a fine line.

[Deleted]

One thing I stressed to my kids from the time they were old enough to understand was that, if ANYbody tells them something has to be a secret or tells them not to tell me about something they did, that means they SHOULD tell me no matter what that person says will happen if they told. And that kids shouldn't keep "bad things" or things that made them uncomfortable a secret, they should tell somebody. I always wanted them to know they could tell me anything about anybody, without fear.

It can be hard to get little ones to understand the stranger thing. When DD was little, a lady in a store tried to get her to say "Hello" and DD yelled "My Mom told me not to talk to STRANGE PEOPLE". At least I knew she somewhat understood what I'd been telling her.

[Firebird]

It can be hard to get little ones to understand the stranger thing. When DD was little, a lady in a store tried to get her to say "Hello" and DD yelled "My Mom told me not to talk to STRANGE PEOPLE". At least I knew she somewhat understood what I'd been telling her.

That would have been funny if this lady had pink hair and was dressed in torn up punk clothes.

[cronewitch]

My brother is a grandfather that looks like a grandfather and little kids try to treat him like he is their grandfather. He doesn't like it or think it is right so he sometimes tells them he is the stranger their mother warned them about. One asked her mother if he was and she said yes.

In a line in a grocery store a little girl told me not to touch her. Her mother explained she had just gotten out of a personal safety class. I don't touch children unless they offer a hug or I have a good reason. Most kids don't like to hug and kiss great aunts and only will if ordered to by parents.

[zibazinski]

We explained to our kids that a stranger was anyone who hadn't eaten dinner at our table. That seemed to help. But it won't work for all kids probably.