Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 24, 2012 21:30:00 GMT -5
Is that what I said? Sometimes it's not good choice vs. bad choice. Sometimes it's bad choice 1 vs. bad choice 2 vs. terrible choice. You said they were thriving...thriving to me implies they do not have emotional scars. I'm saying I can't a child NOT having emotional scars knowing they were dumped by their mom. Unless there are mental/abuse issues, a child is never better off being dumped by their mom. Any woman that can do that is truly as selfish as a person can get.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Jul 24, 2012 21:36:00 GMT -5
I didn't say they were thriving. I don't know them from Adam. Anne said that (actually she said "happy and thriving.")
But I'm sure you're in a better position to judge their emotional state than the person here who actually knows them...
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beags
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Post by beags on Jul 24, 2012 21:52:12 GMT -5
Anne never said her friend was toxic/abusive...she said her friend fell in love with a woman and left her children...you always acuse me of reading into posts...hello pot.... You asked "how is abandoning your children the best thing for them?" I answered that question. I didn't say a word about Anne's friend (or quote her post). BUT, if I'm going to be accused of reading into things, Anne said the kids were happy and thriving, so it sounds like it was the best thing for them. Without a time machine or identical twins separated at birth to use as controls, it's impossible to know for sure.[/b] tell me I didnt seriously see that. And if you hit my sister right now, I'll feel it.
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beags
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Post by beags on Jul 24, 2012 21:55:00 GMT -5
I didn't say they were thriving. I don't know them from Adam. Anne said that (actually she said "happy and thriving.") But I'm sure you're in a better position to judge their emotional state than the person here who actually knows them... If anyone would have asked my niece, she would have said she was happy also . .. but if you were to bring up my brother to her . . she would have stated how much she hates him. . .that was when she was younger. When she turned 22 she decided to give her dad one last chance, as I stated he's walking her down the isle now. But she has a back up plan just in case. It leaves scars, even when it doesn't appear to, it does, and you're fooling yourself if you think otherwise.
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Jul 24, 2012 22:00:16 GMT -5
My mom dumped us kids when I was 5 and my brother was 3. She initially had custody but that didn't last six months. We were better off with a loving father and a stepmom who did the best she could than a woman more concerned about catering to the whims of her boyfriend. I look up to mom's younger sister more than I do mom. I have good role models, I've been blessed with amazing people in my life. Mom didn't want to stick around for it, that's her loss.
Yes, we have a screwed up relationship with her to this day. Not everyone comes from shiny, happy beginnings and most of us manage to go on and become productive adults. In the end the issues I have are my issues. I believe you can only blame circumstances for so long. At some point you have to grow up and decide to rise above it. Someone with a mental illness is a different story.
FWIW her mom did the same exact thing to her and my uncle. Except she completely left which I agree is easier to deal with. Getting your heart broke over and over again bc you thought it'd be different this time is hell on a kid.
ETA: I think a lot of people have scars and things that have to deal with. That's life and it isn't always fair. How you deal with it is what matters.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Jul 24, 2012 22:10:59 GMT -5
I'm still flabbergasted that anyone can make sweeping pronouncements on the emotional state of children they've never met and know nothing about other than what one person has posted on a message board.
And I don't think Anne said anything about scars or no scars in the family she referenced. A lot seems to be read into the comments on this thread. As WVU's story indicates, thriving/happy does not necessarily mean no scars. We ALL have issues. Every single one of us. Doesn't mean we can't live a happy life.
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beags
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Post by beags on Jul 24, 2012 22:41:47 GMT -5
I understand that one can lead a happy life despite it all.
But that's an argument everyone is putting up to say it doesn't leave scars when we say it does. The point is it does . . . even though some get past it and live happy lives . . . it still leaves scars. You can't deny that by saying they are happy. They most likely ARE happy, but it still left that scar behind when they were abandoned by the parent. That's what we are saying . . . it leaves a scar and you are fooling yourself if you think it doesn't. WVU's post said it all . . . . even though she is happy, below are the two things that stick in my head about her mother.
Yes, we have a screwed up relationship with her to this day
Except she completely left which I agree is easier to deal with. Getting your heart broke over and over again bc you thought it'd be different this time is hell on a kid.
It leaves a scar . . does that mean they can't rise above it? No, it doesn't . . obviously they can . . my niece did and WVU did and many more have. BUT it still leaves that scar, you can't deny that or say it doesn't because you want to believe so. . .. because perhaps it makes you feel better. It leaves a scar.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Jul 24, 2012 22:51:50 GMT -5
Who said it doesn't leave scars? I don't think anyone has said (or was arguing) that.
My only point was - if it is a choice between being an absent parent or a crappy parent (and often it is) being an absent parent is IMO the best for the child. Ideally we would all only have kids when ready and no one would regret it or develop mental issues or just be a selfish dick. But that's not reality.
And we ALL have scars. Even DH, who had an idyllic middle-class childhood, and whose parents have a happy marriage, still has issues. So it's not as though kids are going to be emotionally perfect, no matter what you do (or don't do).
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beags
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Post by beags on Jul 24, 2012 22:57:07 GMT -5
Who said it doesn't leave scars? I don't think anyone has said (or was arguing) that. My only point was - if it is a choice between being an absent parent or a crappy parent (and often it is) being an absent parent is IMO the best for the child. Ideally we would all only have kids when ready and no one would regret it or develop mental issues or just be a selfish dick. But that's not reality. And we ALL have scars. Even DH, who had an idyllic middle-class childhood, and whose parents have a happy marriage, still has issues. So it's not as though kids are going to be emotionally perfect, no matter what you do (or don't do). perhaps you weren't, but many were.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Jul 24, 2012 23:07:37 GMT -5
We must be reading different threads. You did say "thriving implies to me no emotional scars." I am not sure that is what Anne meant by it. And I don't think any of us are totally free of emotional scars.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 25, 2012 8:26:03 GMT -5
"But I'm sure you're in a better position to judge their emotional state than the person here who actually knows them... "
Or the person who doesn't want to admit that her friend is a selfish bitch who abandoned her children.....because she couldn't possibly be biased in her opinion of the situation....
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GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl
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Post by GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl on Jul 25, 2012 9:16:09 GMT -5
SAHMs are ruining the sanctity of the institution of marriage. You're a Tea Partier, aren't you?
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Jul 25, 2012 9:27:19 GMT -5
There are far worse things that could have happened to me as a child. Hell I could have been born in a country where women have no rights. Being abandoned by a parent sucks but eventually in life people are going to disappoint you and you'll have to learn to deal with that.
Someone who stays and clearly does not want to be there can do far more damage to kids than one who just leaves. Life's not a fairy tale, some people get good parents, some people get bad parents. If someone recognizes they clearly don't want to be there and they just leave for good that's easy. I think the bigger scars and damage come from the back and forth.
Either the woman's been lying to herself about what she wants from life or she's got health issues. I would think admitting to either one and leaving kids in a safe place is more admirable and desirable than screwing them up even more.
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Jul 25, 2012 9:28:55 GMT -5
And my issues with mom are bc she has fantasies of playing mommy from time to time. I can't have that normal (like anyone's normal) relationship with her bc she can't handle being a parent 24-7. She does it when the fancy strikes her.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 25, 2012 9:30:25 GMT -5
"Someone who stays and clearly does not want to be there "
And that is what I can't grasp...honestly, I look at my two kids and I can't imagine not wanting to be with them...I don't understand fathers who don't either, but as a mom, I think it is worse for the mom to abandon her children...flame away, but that is how I feel.
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moxie
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Post by moxie on Jul 25, 2012 9:35:25 GMT -5
And my issues with mom are bc she has fantasies of playing mommy from time to time. I can't have that normal (like anyone's normal) relationship with her bc she can't handle being a parent 24-7. She does it when the fancy strikes her. I'll be your mom. I am really fun too!
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 25, 2012 9:36:00 GMT -5
Are your children teenagers yet? I can't tell you how many times I wanted to run away from home during those fun years!
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moxie
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Post by moxie on Jul 25, 2012 9:36:48 GMT -5
I can't tell you how many times I wanted to run away from home during those fun years!
But you didn't...you hung in...
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Jul 25, 2012 9:37:39 GMT -5
This is all speculation but you knew you wanted kids Tina, you went through hell to get them. This woman said she wanted kids but maybe she really didn't. Things seem to have changed somewhat but in our society for years people got married and had kids it was just what they did. Maybe she didn't think there was another option. Maybe she's just overwhelmed with it all. Hard to say.
My mother hated her house and got married to get out of it. To me the logical thing would be to move out but maybe in 1983 people didn't do that...
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 25, 2012 9:43:12 GMT -5
wvu...I guess I don't udnerstand why someone would have kids if they didn't really want them....kids are a HUGE commitment and should be handed back because they are too much work.
Don't get me wrong, I get very pissed off at deadbeat dads, too...but women carry that life inside their bellies....feel it moving and growing over the 9 months...how can anyone women just abandon that?
And I know there are no answers...but those are the things I truly cannot understand..and why I judge a woman who abandons her child much more harshly than a man...and I judge him pretty harshly, too...because as a mom, I just can't comprehend it...
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Post by 973beachbum on Jul 25, 2012 9:45:33 GMT -5
This is all speculation but you knew you wanted kids Tina, you went through hell to get them. This woman said she wanted kids but maybe she really didn't. Things seem to have changed somewhat but in our society for years people got married and had kids it was just what they did. Maybe she didn't think there was another option. Maybe she's just overwhelmed with it all. Hard to say. My mother hated her house and got married to get out of it. To me the logical thing would be to move out but maybe in 1983 people didn't do that... WVU please don't take offense to this but all I saw when I read this is that I am the same age as you Mom.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 25, 2012 9:47:09 GMT -5
Damn Beach...you are old!lol <<runs before Beach throws an empty wine bottle at me>>
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beags
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Post by beags on Jul 25, 2012 9:48:34 GMT -5
This is all speculation but you knew you wanted kids Tina, you went through hell to get them. This woman said she wanted kids but maybe she really didn't. Things seem to have changed somewhat but in our society for years people got married and had kids it was just what they did. Maybe she didn't think there was another option. Maybe she's just overwhelmed with it all. Hard to say. My mother hated her house and got married to get out of it. To me the logical thing would be to move out but maybe in 1983 people didn't do that...quote] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- It wasn't 1950's honey. They divorced in the 80's as well. They lived together without being married, and they had children before marriage. I was an 80's child . . I have two friends who have stayed married. My brother was an 80's child . . meaning we were in high school then or turning into adulthood. He left his kid. No the 80's was far from the 1950's, as a matter of fact, it's not much different than it is now as far as marriage and raising children is concerned.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Jul 25, 2012 9:49:03 GMT -5
Damn Beach...you are old!lol <<runs before Beach throws an empty wine bottle at me>> That's what I was thinking! I couldn't figure out how I have a 9 yr old but am 102 at the same time. Then again I didn't live in WV.
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Post by CarolinaKat on Jul 25, 2012 9:51:04 GMT -5
This is all speculation but you knew you wanted kids Tina, you went through hell to get them. This woman said she wanted kids but maybe she really didn't. Things seem to have changed somewhat but in our society for years people got married and had kids it was just what they did. Maybe she didn't think there was another option. Maybe she's just overwhelmed with it all. Hard to say. My mother hated her house and got married to get out of it. To me the logical thing would be to move out but maybe in 1983 people didn't do that... WVU please don't take offense to this but all I saw when I read this is that I am the same age as you Mom. Holy crap, I thought you were closer to my age... I suck at knowing how old people are
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Jul 25, 2012 9:52:03 GMT -5
This is all speculation but you knew you wanted kids Tina, you went through hell to get them. This woman said she wanted kids but maybe she really didn't. Things seem to have changed somewhat but in our society for years people got married and had kids it was just what they did. Maybe she didn't think there was another option. Maybe she's just overwhelmed with it all. Hard to say. My mother hated her house and got married to get out of it. To me the logical thing would be to move out but maybe in 1983 people didn't do that... WVU please don't take offense to this but all I saw when I read this is that I am the same age as you Mom. Mom will be 50 in November. I've long ago given up on trying to understand Tina. I'm not psoitive but I have a feeling I could have been an oops BC pills didn't work right. Grandma on dad's side said she swore she wouldn't abandon her kids like her mom did. I guess history does repeat itself. I'm not saying all cases are like that but I'd guess for some kids who are abandoned, the parents never truly wanted kids.
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Jul 25, 2012 9:55:19 GMT -5
Maybe some areas were different. I get the impression that young people did not move out, get their own apartment, and so on in that area. They stayed at home till they got married.
She was raised in a rural area, the graduating class was less than 100. Yes, she could have moved to the closest city, gotten a job, roommate, etc but she didn't. She got married instead and decided that wasn't for her seven years and two kids later.
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beags
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Post by beags on Jul 25, 2012 9:56:03 GMT -5
I'm younger than her mom . . . being as her mother left in 1983 . . . I wasn't even in high school yet. I graduated in 1988. But I do know that not many people stayed married.
However, just as it is now . . . . . many don't understand how a parent can leave their child.
Although I suppose leaving is better than staying and abusing them.
Either way, it's not good for the children . . . Why can't people understand that having children does not change their sucky life?
They have these children thinking some sort miracle is going to come out of it . . . and when it doesn't, they leave.
I still think it's a selfish thing to do, and you aren't going to change my mind on that. The entire thing is selfish.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 25, 2012 9:56:41 GMT -5
"I've long ago given up on trying to understand Tina. I'm not psoitive but I have a feeling I could have been an oops BC pills didn't work right. Grandma on dad's side said she swore she wouldn't abandon her kids like her mom did. I guess history does repeat itself. " Well I'm really sorry that you were dealt such a shitty mom in life...no child deserves that...I do know that you dad has always been there for you and your brother so I am happy that he was able to provide a stable life for you
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 25, 2012 9:57:19 GMT -5
"being as her mother left in 1983 ."
I think wvu was born in 1983....
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