midjd
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Post by midjd on Jul 20, 2012 10:26:30 GMT -5
I agree with this in principle, but since the server has to declare a percent of sales to the IRS, it doesn't really work that way - they have to declare twice as much on a $50 table than a $25 table even if the $25 table required twice as much work.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jul 20, 2012 10:27:04 GMT -5
Totally OT, but what is up with Firebird and Darks siggys? We are now mortal enemies.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2012 10:48:40 GMT -5
Phoenix, the math is just as easy if you take 10% and double it.
So, a 25.47 bill... 10% is about $2.50, so you leave a $5, or round your bill up to $30. Easy peasy.
(And while a solo diner may be easy to wait on, they are probably sitting at a two-top, which would ordinarily have a tab twice as large)
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Jul 20, 2012 10:49:05 GMT -5
"How would you rather tip? If tipping starts amounting to "how hard are you making the server's job," hardly anyone will ever bring kids to restaurants. Which I realize would be a win in most people's books"
I dunno if it has to be by hardness of job, but maybe by # of people served. Flat rate for service. It's not just hardness of job, if I order a $50 steak or a $10 sandwich you're probably not doing 5x the work. Likewise if I come in and drink 4 sodas and order a slice of pie, you probably deserve more than the entire bill if the refills were free.
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Abby Normal
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Post by Abby Normal on Jul 20, 2012 10:54:02 GMT -5
I agree with this in principle, but since the server has to declare a percent of sales to the IRS, it doesn't really work that way - they have to declare twice as much on a $50 table than a $25 table even if the $25 table required twice as much work. I will not tip less than 15% in an expensive restaurant, just because the food is expensive. However, if we go to a diner type place with cheap food and overworked staff, I will tip extremeley generously for good service. 15-20% on a $20 bill doesn't seem like enough to me.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Jul 20, 2012 10:56:04 GMT -5
::The problem with this is your service will start to suffer. Good servers stay in the restaurant business because they make really good money. If everyone is paid the same whether they do a good job or not (and rest assured, that amount will be less than the good servers make now - restaurants will pay the least they can get away with so they don't have to raise food prices more than necessary), the good servers will find something else to do. You'll be left with the crappy ones, and paying more for the privilege of being served by them.::
PBP makes this argument all the time and it's simply not correct. We dont' tip service people in MANY areas. Not everyone would make the same whether they do a good job or not, bad servers would be fired because people would stop eating at those restaurants. The entire argument hinges around the idea that no matter how terrible the service people will just keep eating at those restaurants and paying for it. It doesn't work that way in any other area, it wouldnt' work that way in food service either.
It moves the issue from "if I do bad I'll get a bad tip" to "if I do bad I'll be fired". I'd rather have them worried about their job than an extra $2 when it comes time to service the table. You don't tip bankers, or the guy who makes your sandwich at Subway, or the clerk at NAAPA Autoparts. None of those offer any worse service than the typical waitstaff.
If good servers could find something else to do, they'd be doing it now. It's not like the girl at Applebee's is clearing 6 figures, and the ones being highly paid in upscale places won't be affected anyways.
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needanewjob
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Post by needanewjob on Jul 20, 2012 10:56:18 GMT -5
I just found out that the workers at Sonic (at least the ones here) only get paid $3.50/hr because they are assumed to get tips. Prior to this, I just let them keep the coins of my change. I assumed that since it was "fast food" that they got at least minimum wage and an extra $.50 per order was a bonus.
Should I be tipping 20% at Sonic?
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Jul 20, 2012 11:00:17 GMT -5
It wouldn't be a bad idea - but if the employees are averaging less than MW with $3.50/hr + tips, the employer is required to make up the shortfall.
Then again, the % of waitstaff who are aware of this law or feel comfortable raising the issue to their manager is pretty low, IME.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2012 11:01:20 GMT -5
"bunnysmom, I wonder if she called you out because she sensed you were European. It was still rude, but that might have been why she brought it up. Some Europeans don't realize that it's customary to tip here. Very common stereotype among servers. " It was at a Turkish restaurant in Chicago but the server was not Turkish but definitely a foreigner. It is not customary to tip as much as the US in Turkey for sure but I always tip well because I live in the US and that is customary here. But I also refuse to tip just because it is customary, they have to deserve it just like everybody else and I don't even have too many expectations. I don't take it out on the server if the food comes out slow as long as the server was attentive, etc. Another time I was at a bar with an ex-BF. We settled out tab and left about 30% tip. My ex-BF knew the waitress. She called us out on it saying we didn't tip enough, we need to tip at least 15%. We tried to explain to her that what we left was more but I guess math was not her thing Idiot!
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jul 20, 2012 11:02:57 GMT -5
Going down that road gets into "difficult customer" territory, though. Basically, a server's job and how hard it is to serve any given customer depends on the following factors:
Customer based:
1) Number of diners 2) Number of and magnitude of complication on orders of diners 3) Pickiness/neediness of diners
Restaurant based:
1) Competence of hostess (if you get five tables who sit down at the same moment in your section, good luck to you serving all of them adequately) 2) Efficiency of kitchen staff/order technology 3) Number of patrons (on a slow night, you can easily compensate for #1 and #2 if they suck)
Given that none of the restaurant-based factors are the responsibility of diners and therefore shouldn't count, trying to determine tip size based on customer difficulty has A LOT to do with whether or not they are a good customer.
My favorite customers were a family of five - Mom, Dad and three kids under the age of eight. They were little angels. The entire family ordered a ton of food, gave me a minimum amount of trouble and tipped me quite well.
By contrast, there was one yuppie couple who gave me heart palpitations whenever they walked through the door - oh no, not THOSE assholes again. They gave me so much more trouble than the family of five ever did.
So, it's hard to say which customers will make your life harder. It's not something you can always gauge easily by the number of a party or what they order.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2012 11:06:13 GMT -5
One thing I cannot stand is when the waitress/waiter does not write down the order (I guess because they are too cool for that), then mess up the order.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jul 20, 2012 11:06:57 GMT -5
If good servers could find something else to do, they'd be doing it now. It's not like the girl at Applebee's is clearing 6 figures, and the ones being highly paid in upscale places won't be affected anyways.
True, but since tipping IS customary in this country, it would be a huge mentality shift to go from tipping to not tipping with higher food costs. I agree the high end places wouldn't be affected much. Their clientele could probably afford to eat the higher prices and pay servers decently. But I think the chain restaurants would really, really suffer - and let's face it, for tons of people in the country that's all they can afford. They wouldn't be able to raise the prices very much or they'd go out of business altogether. Thus, the good ones would leave and try for jobs at nicer places (or switch industries) and the less-talented servers would be left. Quality of service would go down in most of the places that Americans like to eat.
That's my position, anyway. But it's hard to say what would actually happen without doing it - and I don't see that happening.
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moxie
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Post by moxie on Jul 20, 2012 11:08:44 GMT -5
I liked waitressing.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jul 20, 2012 11:10:14 GMT -5
It can definitely be fun Almost any job has the potential to be fun, though. At least to me.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2012 11:14:06 GMT -5
I never worked as a waitress but I worked as a table games dealer at a casino. We also worked for tips on top of hourly wage ($4.5/hr). Of course, usually people only tip if they are winning. So how is that any different than tipping a waitress less or not tipping? I still provided a service and I would always cheer for the players but I can't help what cards come out... so do the people that think it is rude to not tip, tip the dealers at casinos even if they lose?
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 20, 2012 11:14:59 GMT -5
There are some states that pay minimum wage to their servers. There are states where servers get the 2-3 bucks an hour that is the norm for servers. West Coast pays whatever minimum wage is now so those that know that tip less than those that do know it.
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Peace77
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Post by Peace77 on Jul 20, 2012 11:33:12 GMT -5
I once was charged a mandatory 18% tip for a party of 2. When I balked the server acted insulted. We had already been overcharged for water and had nothing to eat.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jul 20, 2012 11:37:59 GMT -5
My brother works as waitstaff/bartender at an upscale chain restaurant. He works while his kids are in school (usually lunch rush and early dinner) and clears roughly $70K/year. His paycheck is usually zeroed out from taxes/insurance.
If you asked him if he's prefer working for $15/hour vs the $4/hour + tips, he'll tell you that he prefers his tips.
I've seen him in action, he's a very VERY good waiter.
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Jul 20, 2012 11:43:20 GMT -5
I have never said this to anyone at any waitress job. You're supposed to say "Let me get you some change" and that is their queue to say "Go ahead and keep it" to which they get a "thank you. You guys have a great day/night. Come back and see me".
Please print this and take it to restaurants with you and hand it to the server the next time they say this.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jul 20, 2012 11:45:53 GMT -5
I can remember deliberately tipping lower than standard twice.
Once, I was with dinner with a friend and the waitstaff (including the manager) was far more interested in the basketball game being played on the TV in the bar than making sure that I had the spoon for the soup that I ordered, refills on drinks or that our meal came out of the kitchen hot (it was barely lukewarm). $30 bill, I tipped $1. I figured that since I had to scrounge up my own spoon and get the water pitcher to refill my water, then leaving nothing wasn't going to make the point I wanted to make (especially since the manager was as guilty as the waitstaff).
Second time was with dinner with TD at an upscale restaurant in DC. We were told that the wine we wanted was out (yet the table that came in an hour later got a bottle), our appetizers sat in the warming window, never delivered. No water refills. Meal came out lukewarm and when we ordered dessert and coffee, the ice cream filled profiteroles had melted and no refills on coffee and we got a pitcher with dregs of cream (insufficient for 2 coffees). Dinner bill was >$140, I tipped $5 on what would normally have been a $30 tip had the service been as it should have been.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Jul 20, 2012 11:49:52 GMT -5
I just found out that the workers at Sonic (at least the ones here) only get paid $3.50/hr because they are assumed to get tips. Prior to this, I just let them keep the coins of my change. I assumed that since it was "fast food" that they got at least minimum wage and an extra $.50 per order was a bonus. Should I be tipping 20% at Sonic? They get minimum wage where I live or at least they did a couple of yrs ago.
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Jul 20, 2012 11:54:36 GMT -5
I once was at a restaurant where a hostess ended up running all my food and checking on us while the server only took the initial order and brought the check. She got a tip rounded up to the nearest dollar (say bill was $52.64, she would have gotten $53.00) and I went and found the hostess and gave her $10 and said "make sure you go show my waitress, now."
Another place we went to was a little higher end and I think the bill was like $75.00. They guy was on it and I didn't even have to ask for anything because he was right there. I rounded his tip up too. So I gave him $25.00 to make my bill an even $100. I also told his manager what a good job he did and that I was very happy.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jul 20, 2012 11:57:33 GMT -5
I've been known to tip rather generously if a server succeeds in making me laugh. Laughter is valuable to me.
Of course, this is way easier to accomplish if I've had a few drinks.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Jul 20, 2012 12:00:23 GMT -5
I do not care for servers who try too hard for the 'personal touch'. I'm not there for their company, so please don't spend time at my table not related to food service.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jul 20, 2012 12:06:22 GMT -5
I do not care for servers who try too hard for the 'personal touch'. I'm not there for their company, so please don't spend time at my table not related to food service.
Me either. That's why I appreciate it when they manage to make me laugh without imposing themselves on our table/mood. It's a neat trick.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Jul 20, 2012 12:29:58 GMT -5
And if I felt I should tip <10% I'd talk to the manager instead. I'm not sure how it works at other places, but we had to declare 10% of our total sales in tips each night, so technically tipping less than 10% WAS taking money from us. We made about $2/hr, so half the time the taxes ate up all but a couple of dollars of the check. Where in the world did you work? I waitressed for several years (HS/college) at different levels of places. I always got minimum wage (which is now $8+ an hour). That probably has to do with your state's laws. Federal minimum wage for servers is only $2.13, but many state have their minimum set higher. My standard tip is 15%, but I go higher for excellent service. I have only tipped really low twice & that is because they really pissed me off, not because they made mistakes, but they refused to admit & correct the mistakes. One got my order wrong & proceeded to tell me it was my fault. Only she wasn't even saying I ordered it wrong, she was telling me I should have explained to her why I ordered it that way & then should would have gotten it right. Apparently I need to tell her I am allergic to cheese for her to bother to ensure my order doesn't have cheese, it isn't enough that I just don't want cheese. The other time the waitress split the bill incorrectly onto CC's. She put the entire check on 1 CC & half the check on the other CC. She then argued that it was really correct & despite what the receipt said we would be charged the correct amount. She then got pissy when we insisted she correct the issue. She dropped off the new receipt on a walkby literally without saying a word. At which point we got the manager because we were worried she never canceled the initial transaction.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Jul 20, 2012 12:33:16 GMT -5
I remember another time a bunch of us went out and a good friend's new BF decided he wasn't leaving a tip. He was mad because he asked the waitress to recommend something good & then he ordered it, but didn't like it. We covered his portion of the tip & decided he was a huge douche & shortly thereafter he wasn't my friend's BF anymore.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jul 20, 2012 12:36:50 GMT -5
She then argued that it was really correct & despite what the receipt said we would be charged the correct amount. She then got pissy when we insisted she correct the issue.She wanted you to sign for an amount twice as high as what you owed and then just trust her to make sure she only charged you for half that?
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justme
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Post by justme on Jul 20, 2012 12:41:36 GMT -5
To the comments about speaking to the manager instead of leaving a bad tip - usually that's what I do. The two times I left a pitance of a tip was when I couldn't find a manager (or someone to get the manager). The first time I just grew tired of waiting and left, the second I was on a time crunch and didn't have time to wait for someone to hunt down the manager. The restaurant wasn't busy either of those times.
The worst was when I saw our waitress chatting with a table of friends, while I could see our order come up to the kitchen window. I knew it was ours because every other waiter came up, checked, and walked away because it wasn't theirs. 30+ minutes later she goes to the window, realized the food was cold (no shit sherlock), sent it back, and then moseyed over to our table to tell us it'd be just a minute and walked off without apologizing. We couldn't find anyone to get the manager so after we got or change back we took the quarters, left what was left plus some pennies from our wallet and left.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Jul 20, 2012 12:48:40 GMT -5
I can't imagine the other servers or kitchen staff not tracking down the server if an order sat for more than 5 minutes. If they're busy, its in the way and needs to get moved, and if they're slow it's just ridiculous.
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