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Post by marjar on Jan 28, 2011 10:02:58 GMT -5
I tried to make the point on the old board that for some reason it was OK for Miley Cyrus or Justin Bieber to work and earn money but my kid can only work in the pizza shop a few hours a week. The point being that the laws only apply to some and not others. But, since most people don't get the point, they turn the thread into a "you are jealous because your kid isn't talented" or some discussion which has absolutely nothing to do with my point. You're saying life isn't fair???
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2011 10:12:14 GMT -5
Ok. What specifically don't you agree with there? And are you saying there are no rules regarding entertainers who are children in your state?
It says that under 16 can be employed, but not more than 4 hr school day, 8 hr other days, 18 hr school week.... I don't think thats bad for 14-15 year olds?...
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Jan 28, 2011 14:05:26 GMT -5
Mind you a lot of libertarian and conservative thought- exempting the true anarcho-capitalist types- is centered around the Constitution and the role of the FEDERAL government. Abolishing bad law like Roe vs. Wade, drug prohibition, child labor, and myriad other unConstitutional laws-- won't do away with laws governing these activities.
They would abolish the FEDERAL LAWS but they would NOT abolish state and local laws. There are after all "dry counties" to this day.
What I and many libertarian-leaning conservatives want to see is a return to the lawful Constitutional Republic originally established here. Under our legal, Constitutional form of government, the states can serve as incubators for the best ideas; and where bad ideas can safely die. We want to see a competition- a free marketplace of ideas.
Liberals want top-down, one-size-fits-all "national" government. But we do not have a "national" system, we have a federal system- we have a republican (small "r") system. To the extent we've departed from Constitutional government we have been made subject to in effect a "revolution" which seeks to subvert, ultimately destroy, and then replace our system with another. This is why there are no true "moderates". There are liberals, and conservatives. A dictatorship that orders the man Pocatello, Idaho to use a certain light bulb or face fines and jail time is not compatible with a Constitutional Republic. There's no "middle ground" on the issue, or any issues like it. The "moderate" is either a coward-- can't say what s/he means, or brain dead.
What the "moderate" voter needs to do is find a brain cell or two, or a spine. And we proved it in the last election. Most voters are looking for conservative government-- which means SMALLER government, and more individual liberty-- but they need to know the candidates MEAN it.
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b2r
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Post by b2r on Jan 28, 2011 14:14:52 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2011 14:24:01 GMT -5
orders the man Pocatello, Idaho to use a certain light bulb or face fines and jail time
Can you please point me towards a news article or legislation for this? Thanks.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Jan 28, 2011 15:05:53 GMT -5
orders the man Pocatello, Idaho to use a certain light bulb or face fines and jail time Can you please point me towards a news article or legislation for this? Thanks. I'm referring to the unConstitutional federal mandate that outlaws the sale of incandescent light bulbs in favor of CFLs. Have you seriously not been aware of this issue?
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jan 28, 2011 15:28:05 GMT -5
Palmbeachpaul-if I went out and bought 1,000,000 incandescent light bulbs for my own use in my own home, I would face fines and jail time for using them after the cutoff date?
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jan 28, 2011 15:31:57 GMT -5
I am even guilty of it. Let's get this thread back on subject track.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2011 15:33:20 GMT -5
Can you please point me to the exact wording of this federal mandate that outlaws the sale if incandescent light bulbs? Thanks.
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fairlycrazy23
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Post by fairlycrazy23 on Jan 28, 2011 18:52:01 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2011 19:00:53 GMT -5
But that does not actually outlaw the sale of incadescent light bulbs. It does set efficiency standards, and yes, it is true that current incandescent light bulbs can not meet some of the later efficiency standards, and as such, if they cannot be improved, would potentially phase out... but that is not exactly the same thing, is it, as saying there is a federal mandate outlawing the sale of incandescent light bulbs... ... not to mention that i see nothing which suggests that indivdiuals found with non-efficiency standard light bulbs in their houses will be carted off to jail... as per the example.... I do thank you for tracking down the source though... i can't say it was an interesting read... ... but i'm glad to have it bookmarked. Thanks.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jan 28, 2011 19:03:14 GMT -5
I think that living in Pocatato, Idaho itself should be declared a federal crime but that is just me.
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vonnie6200
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Post by vonnie6200 on Jan 28, 2011 19:11:00 GMT -5
But that does not actually outlaw the sale of incadescent light bulbs. It does set efficiency standards, and yes, it is true that current incandescent light bulbs can not meet some of the later efficiency standards, and as such, if they cannot be improved, would potentially phase out... but that is not exactly the same thing, is it, as saying there is a federal mandate outlawing the sale of incandescent light bulbs... ... not to mention that i see nothing which suggests that indivdiuals found with non-efficiency standard light bulbs in their houses will be carted off to jail... as per the example.... I do thank you for tracking down the source though... i can't say it was an interesting read... ... but i'm glad to have it bookmarked. Thanks. Read more: notmsnmoney.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=politics&action=display&thread=2438&page=2#ixzz1CNW6Y8TKWhile I can't - and have no inclination to look up a link - incandescent light bulbs are no longer be manufactured in the US
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vonnie6200
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Post by vonnie6200 on Jan 28, 2011 19:11:32 GMT -5
do to Federal regulations
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2011 19:16:35 GMT -5
Yes.. it looks like the last major plant anyway closed in late 2010 ... not sure about 'non-major'...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2011 19:23:39 GMT -5
All industrialized countries have put forth similar energy standards on light bulbs, most sooner and more agressive than ours... I'm guessing the global market has bottomed out, not just here... and I don't think they would have actually failed efficiency standards for a few years (as the standards were phased in... i heard 2020)... and if the technology is incapable of meeting energy standards, then my guess is it should give way to newer technology... I haven't used an incandescent bulb in years (except for the easy bake oven... maybe)... so i'm guessing there were some demand issues before all this...
I went to the mutter museum in December, and was amazed to see a machine that they used to use in shoe stores to x-ray feet in shoes so they could ensure a 'good fit'... these were used up until the early-mid 1900s in the US... but were regulated out because they proved unsafe.... i always wonder, about the people who rail on and on about excessive 'government regulations'... if they like listeria in their meat, and lead in their toys and radiation at the mall? and killer Tylenol?...
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b2r
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Post by b2r on Jan 28, 2011 19:33:45 GMT -5
How should I clean up a broken fluorescent bulb? Because CFLs contain a small amount of mercury, EPA recommends the following clean-up and disposal guidelines:
1. Before Clean-up: Air Out the Room •Have people and pets leave the room, and don't let anyone walk through the breakage area on their way out. •Open a window and leave the room for 15 minutes or more. •Shut off the central forced-air heating/air conditioning system, if you have one.
2. Clean-Up Steps for Hard Surfaces •Carefully scoop up glass fragments and powder using stiff paper or cardboard and place them in a glass jar with metal lid (such as a canning jar) or in a sealed plastic bag. •Use sticky tape, such as duct tape, to pick up any remaining small glass pieces and powder. •Wipe the area clean with damp paper towels or disposable wet wipes. Place towels in the glass jar or plastic bag. •Do not use a vacuum or broom to clean up the broken bulb on hard surfaces.
3. Clean-up Steps for Carpeting or Rug: •Carefully pick up glass fragments and place them in a glass jar with metal lid (such as a canning jar) or in a sealed plastic bag. •Use sticky tape, such as duct tape, to pick up any remaining small glass fragments and powder. •If vacuuming is needed after all visible materials are removed, vacuum the area where the bulb was broken. •Remove the vacuum bag (or empty and wipe the canister), and put the bag or vacuum debris in a sealed plastic bag.
4. Clean-up Steps for Clothing, Bedding, etc.: •If clothing or bedding materials come in direct contact with broken glass or mercury-containing powder from inside the bulb that may stick to the fabric, the clothing or bedding should be thrown away. Do not wash such clothing or bedding because mercury fragments in the clothing may contaminate the machine and/or pollute sewage. •You can, however, wash clothing or other materials that have been exposed to the mercury vapor from a broken CFL, such as the clothing you are wearing when you cleaned up the broken CFL, as long as that clothing has not come into direct contact with the materials from the broken bulb. •If shoes come into direct contact with broken glass or mercury-containing powder from the bulb, wipe them off with damp paper towels or disposable wet wipes. Place the towels or wipes in a glass jar or plastic bag for disposal.
5. Disposal of Clean-up Materials •Immediately place all clean-up materials outdoors in a trash container or protected area for the next normal trash pickup. •Wash your hands after disposing of the jars or plastic bags containing clean-up materials. •Check with your local or state government about disposal requirements in your specific area. Some states do not allow such trash disposal. Instead, they require that broken and unbroken mercury-containing bulbs be taken to a local recycling center.
6. Future Cleaning of Carpeting or Rug: Air Out the Room During and After Vacuuming •The next several times you vacuum, shut off the central forced-air heating/air conditioning system and open a window before vacuuming. •Keep the central heating/air conditioning system shut off and the window open for at least 15 minutes after vacuuming is completed.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2011 20:09:59 GMT -5
EPA said in announcing the guidelines. The agency said manufacturers are working to reduce mercury in CFLS, which average four milligrams per bulb compared with the 500 milligrams contained in an older thermometer.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Jan 28, 2011 21:26:39 GMT -5
All industrialized countries have put forth similar energy standards on light bulbs, most sooner and more agressive than ours... I'm guessing the global market has bottomed out, not just here... and I don't think they would have actually failed efficiency standards for a few years (as the standards were phased in... i heard 2020)... and if the technology is incapable of meeting energy standards, then my guess is it should give way to newer technology... I haven't used an incandescent bulb in years (except for the easy bake oven... maybe)... so i'm guessing there were some demand issues before all this... I went to the mutter museum in December, and was amazed to see a machine that they used to use in shoe stores to x-ray feet in shoes so they could ensure a 'good fit'... these were used up until the early-mid 1900s in the US... but were regulated out because they proved unsafe.... i always wonder, about the people who rail on and on about excessive 'government regulations'... if they like listeria in their meat, and lead in their toys and radiation at the mall? and killer Tylenol?... We aren't like "all the other industrialized countries". We are a Constitutional republic and our government is restricted by law (if we'd choose to follow it) from imposing such "national standards". It's just fact.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Jan 28, 2011 21:27:31 GMT -5
I think that living in Pocatato, Idaho itself should be declared a federal crime but that is just me. Substitute Washington, D.C. and you may have a point.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Jan 28, 2011 21:30:27 GMT -5
Palmbeachpaul-if I went out and bought 1,000,000 incandescent light bulbs for my own use in my own home, I would face fines and jail time for using them after the cutoff date? It's very simple- if you wish to buy an incandescant lightbulb in the United States after the cutoff date, you cannot find one that meets the "standards" set by our rulers. They have no authority to set such standards, but that doesn't seem to bother them. In fact, the a**hole that wrote the bill just got appointed by the supposedly "tea party" republican party to the house energy sub committee.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2011 21:43:18 GMT -5
They have no authority to set standards... is the same true about meat, and cheese, and medications, and pesticides, and radiation, and etc. etc. etc.... do you hate all those standards too?... does it impinge on your ability to get explosive diarrhea, and have developmentally delayed children and die from heart failure?...
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fairlycrazy23
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Post by fairlycrazy23 on Jan 28, 2011 22:16:35 GMT -5
They have no authority to set standards... is the same true about meat, and cheese, and medications, and pesticides, and radiation, and etc. etc. etc.... do you hate all those standards too?... does it impinge on your ability to get explosive diarrhea, and have developmentally delayed children and die from heart failure?... Pretty much the federal government has no authority to set any of those types of standards. They may be good standards but they goes beyond the enumerated powers of the federal government.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2011 22:18:35 GMT -5
Well... i don't exactly want the strawberries coming at me from Florida to be contaminated because Florida doesn't have the same standards as we do in PA... so as long as there is interstate commerse... i'm just going to have to disagree with you there...
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zipity
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Post by zipity on Jan 28, 2011 22:22:20 GMT -5
Good luck to them. Child labor laws as written definitely fall under the commerce law. The law bans the interstate shipment and sale of any goods produced by child labor. Goods produced by kids under the age of 14 are considered immoral, along the same lines as prostitution. Civil rights are protected under the commerce law because it prevents businesses from discriminating against customers because of the color of their skin. Of course the supreme court has a majority of conservative activist justices so the pubs might have a chance at rewriting the laws, at least until the court swings from the right back to the center.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jan 28, 2011 22:38:10 GMT -5
Palmbeachpaul-if I went out and bought 1,000,000 incandescent light bulbs for my own use in my own home, I would face fines and jail time for using them after the cutoff date? It's very simple- if you wish to buy an incandescant lightbulb in the United States after the cutoff date, you cannot find one that meets the "standards" set by our rulers. They have no authority to set such standards, but that doesn't seem to bother them. In fact, the a**hole that wrote the bill just got appointed by the supposedly "tea party" republican party to the house energy sub committee. So it is not against the law for me to use an incandescant lightbulb (as you stated) in the future as long as I have 1,000,000 incandescant lightbulbs in my house for future use.
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ugonow
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Post by ugonow on Jan 29, 2011 9:41:15 GMT -5
Great... all that production of light bulbs now goes to China . And they pay youngsters peanuts to make them.... no wonder we will never keep up with them.Too many unconstitutional fed regulations.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Jan 29, 2011 9:50:28 GMT -5
Well... i don't exactly want the strawberries coming at me from Florida to be contaminated because Florida doesn't have the same standards as we do in PA... so as long as there is interstate commerse... i'm just going to have to disagree with you there... This is such a dopey agrument. It only requires about 3 seconds of conscious thought to dispell this myth. Do you think it would be in the state of Florida, or it's citrus growers to ship contaminated strawberries? Exactly how many times do you think they could do that before they could no longer sell strawberries and everyone is out of business? And FWIW, the last time I checked we crank out 70,000 pages of US Code every year, and that plant in Georgia DID sell contaminated peanuts and peanut products right under the noses of the FDA, CDC, and whoever else is supposed to be ensuring product quality. The practical problem with too much regulation-- in addition to the legal problem that it's not Constitutional-- is that it much of it is designed to dole out favors to special interests (why do you need 2000 pages to regulate healthcare?) while giving the public a false sense of security, and worst of all-- removing responsibility. And the best part? When the FDA, or SEC, or any number of alphabet soup screws up-- do they have any liability, or accountability? Who got fired (in government) after the peanut thing? For that matter, who was fired after 9/11?
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Jan 29, 2011 9:57:35 GMT -5
Child labor laws- to get back on topic- can be enacted by states. The Federal government has no Constitutional authority to do it. There are a limited number of enumerated powers granted the Federal government in the Constitution. The commerce clause in particular is simply meant to ensure free trade between the states. It's to prevent NC from imposing a tarrif on products from SC. Instead, the feds have abused the power to regulate anything they feel like regulating. If there were no problems with what they're doing, you'd think they'd immediately pass the Enumerated Powers Act- www.downsizedc.org/etp/campaigns/87
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MN-Investor
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Post by MN-Investor on Jan 29, 2011 12:13:41 GMT -5
"Child labor laws can be enacted by states. The Federal government has no Constitutional authority to do it. There are a limited number of enumerated powers granted the Federal government in the Constitution.
The commerce clause in particular is simply meant to ensure free trade between the states." And yet the Supreme Court unanimously affirmed the authority of Congress to enact child labor laws, stating that the commerce clause gives them that authority. Time and again the Supreme Court has upheld the authority of Congress to enact laws based on the commerce clause.
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