Please Talk Me Off The Ledge: Rant

[susanb]

MIL called DH this weekend to let him know she is giving SIL the down payment for a 500k Mcmansion complete with 5 bathrooms and a pool (SIL lives in a L-MCOLA). SIL is going to keep her first house which she has a 150k mortgage on as a rental. There is no plan to pay MIL back. When DH asked his sister about it she became enraged, said that MIL never should have told DH and hung up on him. She called later to apologize.

MIL called me last night and said she that she is not rich, but would give me a down payment on a house too, MIL is a retired school teacher. She has been retired one year. I would never tap into her retirement money for a down payment on a luxury house, or any house. I told her thank you, but no thank you. We already own a primary home and two rentals.

A little background about SIL:

She rolled her Lexus SUV into her last mortgage.
She owes DH 10k and threw a tantrum when he brought it up (once in five years), said fine I will send you a check and then never did.
She is a SAHM who has a cleaning lady, does not cook and sends her kids to private school. Her DH makes 150k a year, but cannot support this lifestyle so DH's parents and grandfather subsidize her.
She hates me and confronted me with a list of 21 sins I committed that she had written in the back of her children's coloring book. Sin number 3 was that I let bridesmaids at my wedding change into comfy outfits after the photos and dinner. Sin number 5 was that my maid of honor got drunk at my wedding. Sin number 10 was being "evil." I am not joking. She wrote down that I was evil and then told me I was evil. She is 40. I don't like or trust her and know that our negative relationship is probably coloring my view on this situation.

DH says MIL can spend her money any way she wants. It is none of our business. I would agree except DH also said he would help his mom and sister financially if they need it. Who is going to pay for MIL's care after SIL has sucked her dry? Also, I don't really respect the lack of financial integrity that I see among any of these people. MIL should be making sound decisions for her life so that she can enjoy it. I have to see my IL's in a few weeks. How can I change my attitude towards my SIL and BIL? I have zero respect for them at this point. People can always sense it when you do not respect them.

How do I maintain a cordial relationship with her? Do you have a family member who you resent because of finances? How do you keep it from hurting your loved ones?

[milee]

Sorry you're in this situation. Lena (whoisjohngalt) has some similar stuff going on - maybe she'll tell you how best to cope.

[Phoenix84]

You're probably best off realizing you can't control other people, just yourself and your household. I would just ignore it. It may come to pass that your MIL needs assistance because her daughter sucked her dry, but you will have an input when that time comes. Just cross that bridge if you come to it.

[susanb]

Milee - thanks for the support.

Pheonix - you are right. I believe that my values, not my feelings, should guide my actions. I guess I will have to put my money where my mouth is. Ugh.

Nasgul - Good points. We do have some his, her and ours money. To DH's credit, this is money he lent his sister before he met me. He said that he won't lend her any more as long as she is living above her means, so that is something.

[susanb]

The maid of honor thing is pretty funny. It isn't even like she did anything over the top. She had a few cocktails before dinner and talked too much. I never even realized she had been drunk until SIL pointed it out.

We had a small wedding. About 10-15% of our guests got drunk and danced, thank goodness! No one got out of control, but, um, we had an open and unlimited bar, so we would only have ourselves to blame/thank if they did.

ETA: MIL knows about the loan DH made to SIL. He also made a very compelling case to her about how if they can't make it on their current budget with a much smaller mortgage, they will never manage with two mortgages. She agreed to have SIL make a budget to see how this is all going to pan out, but I bet that never happens.

[susanb]

Jul 2, 2012 17:57:00 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

DH should tell his mother that while he respects her right to do as she wants with her money, she should not expect him to help her out financially after she has given her retirement money to the sister.

I have a hunch (Susan tell me if I'm wrong) that there is no way in hell DH would ever tell his mother this.

You are right. He would never say it, and he would help her. He thinks that is what families do, and I agree. Families help each other in times of need. I am more than happy to sacrifice my wants to help with MIL's needs. I am just not interested in sacrificing my wants for SIL's wants. DH said he would help either of them, but that he would be in control of their budget/spending if they need assistance.

[busymom]

SIL sounds like a total control freak. (Except for managing her own finances.)


I'd put some distance between you & the IL's. And no way would I approve of subsidizing SIL or MIL if their money runs out.... (You don't REALLY have to see them every few weeks, do you?)

[susanb]

Oh, no, no, no, I do not have to see them EVERY few weeks. I have to see them in a few weeks. I see them 2-3 times a year. DH's grandfather is having a 90th b-day party. I love him dearly and wouldn't miss it for the world. The problem is that we all stay in DH's parent's house. It is a ranch style with three bedroom and 1.5 baths. There are 9 of us with SIL, BIL and their three kids. I think I am going to have to put my foot down and stay in a hotel from now on. DH will not like it and will not stay with me since there are no hotels in his small town (I will have to stay 15 minutes away) and I think emotionally he doesn't want to be kicked out of the house by his sister, sibling rivalry and all.

[susanb]

She and I would love having me out of the picture! It is a win-win.

As far as charming the pants of my MIL.....She and I actually get along really well. We can talk for hours. The problem is it is a one sided effort. I called her 3x a month up until this spring. I begged her to come stay with us this winter for a week because she hates the cold and we live in the SW. I bought her a spa gift certificate on groupon (she loves spas) and offered to pay for her airfare. She wasn't able to make it, but she was able to go to SIL's house for weeks and weeks at a time to help her out with her kids. She is spending the next three weeks at SIL's helping her pack and move. She also goes on summer vacation with SIL's family.

It really bothers me that she can't make it out to see her son once, but can spend months out of the year with her daughter. I stopped calling her to see what would happen. She never called me until the house situation came up.

I think that is why the money is bothering me so much, the money is "just an outward sign of an inward problem." It really hurts me to see my husband treated this way.

[mollyanna58]

Won't MIL have to pay a hefty gift tax on the down payment?

Maybe MIL plans on living with her daughter when MIL's money runs out.

[susanb]

Jul 2, 2012 19:34:34 GMT -5 mollyanna58 said:

Won't MIL have to pay a hefty gift tax on the down payment?

Maybe MIL plans on living with her daughter when MIL's money runs out.

Yes, she will. She also has to pay tax on the money for withdrawing it from a retirement account that has not yet been taxed. We are also concerned that SIL has not disclosed that the down payment money is a gift to the bank.

DH asked MIL to consult her attorney about the bank disclosure and explained that she is going to have to pay a lot of money in taxes. MIL has not mentioned living with SIL. She has only been retired on year, so she hasn't really made end of life plans. Also, she has only ever lived in her home town. She won't move until she has to. For now, she does have a very good teacher's pension, but as we know, that is no longer set in stone.

[zibazinski]

As painful as it is, you are only the DIL not the DD of this woman. The bond between mother and daughter is usually a very strong one. You are fighting a losing battle.

[susanb]

Jul 2, 2012 20:35:28 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

As painful as it is, you are only the DIL not the DD of this woman. The bond between mother and daughter is usually a very strong one. You are fighting a losing battle.

I am not competing with my SIL for my MIL's affection. I have a Mom, a great Mom. I do not expect or want to be as close to my MIL as my SIL is. I do, however, want to see my MIL show her son love and affection that is in the same proximity as what she shows her daughter. You are right that it is a losing battle. I cannot change how my MIL treats her son. I cannot change how MIL or SIL spend their money. I can try and minimize my exposure to their recklessness.

[Jaguar]

Jul 2, 2012 23:47:56 GMT -5 susanb said:

I can try and minimize my exposure to their recklessness.

That would be the best thing that you could do.

[Deleted]

Oh wait...I need a mimosa to finish reading all this. It sounds like it is going to be GOOD!

[Deleted]

Susanb - I agree with your DH. It is simply none of your business nor is it any of his business how his mom spends her money as long as she is a competent adult. Yes, it is upsetting and annoying to see someone getting used or taken advantage of. But, his mom can choose to spend her money as she pleases and there really isn't a thing either or you can do about it, nor should you as it is her choice.

As for the future, there is no point in worrying down the line. When and if the time comes to help MIL, you will have to deal with that based on whatever is going on at that time. It isn't worth worrying about what you cannot control at this point so i would let it go, relax and just get back to your own lives. You simply cannot prevent others from going down a path of irresponsibility if they choose too.

[skubikky]

Jul 2, 2012 23:47:56 GMT -5 susanb said:

Jul 2, 2012 20:35:28 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

As painful as it is, you are only the DIL not the DD of this woman. The bond between mother and daughter is usually a very strong one. You are fighting a losing battle.

I am not competing with my SIL for my MIL's affection. I have a Mom, a great Mom. I do not expect or want to be as close to my MIL as my SIL is. I do, however, want to see my MIL show her son love and affection that is in the same proximity as what she shows her daughter. You are right that it is a losing battle. I cannot change how my MIL treats her son. I cannot change how MIL or SIL spend their money. I can try and minimize my exposure to their recklessness.

Try to let go of this anger before you go for this visit. You'd just be going in with a chip on your shoulder and that won't do anyone any good.

It's understandable that you might feel that your DH hasn't been treated as well as his sister has. But you can't control how others act, only how you act. If you truly have any character, you'll go, conduct yourself like a lady and make the visit nice for the grandfather. In the end, your anger probably just fuels any hurt and anger that your husband has and makes it actually worse for him.

[happyhoix]

I still can't get past the list of your sins spelled out on the back of a coloring book. Did she do it in crayon? In my mind, she did it with a pink crayon in big scrawling first grade letters. That's so very bizzare.

I'm trying to think in what circumstances I would ever sit down, make a list of another adult person's flaws (as I saw them) and then SHOW them to the other adult. Except for being completely shit faced drunk I can't imagine a situation when I might think this was a good thing to do. I don't understand what your SIL hoped to accomplish by that.

I think your only option here is to isolate yourself from the drama. Ask your MIL and DH not to let you know anything more about SIL's lifestyle or financial misadventures. You can't change them, so it's better for you not to even know what's going on.

At the same time I would have a discussion with DH about your family's financial goals, and how much he might consider giving to MIL or SIL if it came down to it. (Because you know, if MIL asked DH for money, she might turn around and give it directly to SIL). You already know SIL is a money pit who won't pay back loans, so I would want some kind of upper limit on the money giving to either the MIL or SIL. Perhaps your agreement is that MIL can come live with you, if it comes to that, rather than giving her cash, or perhaps you can work out what percentage of money your DH can set aside to give to MIL if she should need it (and I think you should be taking the same percentage and setting it aside for your purposes, too).

Since you only see SIL a few times a year, I would practise being polite and kind - but distant. Don't engage the crazy. Never discuss finances with SIL or MIL - let DH deal with his relatives. And I think staying at a hotel is an excellent idea.

Oh and don't dwell on MIL showering her money and attention on SIL at the expense of your DH. In some families, parents coddle the kids that are the most needy. No doubt your DH has always stood on his own two feet and handled all his own problems, while SIL has spent her lifetime crying on MIL's shoulder. MIL doesn't see what she's doing as favoring her daughter, she sees what she's doing as helping out the kid that needs the most help. Yes it isn't a good thing, it isn't ultimately helping SIL, but it's a very common dynamic between moms and daughters.

[Deleted]

Good advice. Dont' insert yourself into other people's drama unless you want drama of your own. Your money, your life, your control. Their money, their life, their control. It is really that simple. You can choose to let those kinds of things get under your skin or not. Walk away!

[Deleted]

why can't it be legal to punch people in the throat? Because that's the only thing I can think of to do in this situation.

[Deleted]

My mom has spent money in ways i dont' agree with. And, my children are not going to tell ME how to spend my money. And, if i choose to give more money to one of my adult children, oh well. My money, my choice. As adults, they should have no expectations over my money. And, if they do, they can either get over that or be disappointed.

[zibazinski]

I've seen it a lot in too many families. It never ends well. Try to stay out of it and try to just ignore SIL and even MIL if possible. Concentrate on the good people in the family. I'd stay in a hotel anyway, screw what they think. Not like it matters to you. If your DH wants to barge his way in because he doesn't like being pushed out, it's his business, not yours. We can try to protect our lived ones as much as possible but in the end, we can't always. So protect yourself. I second the not wanting to know any of his families financial business and NIX any requests for money from MIL or SIL in the future. You know what they are so minimize the relationship. MIL makes her choices with her eyes wide open.

[zibazinski]

Shooby, didn't you say that all children should be treated equally when it comes to inheritance or do I have you confused?

[Deleted]

Yes. Let me explain. While i am living and a functioning competent adult, i will choose to spend my money however i please. And, if they are adults it is simply NONE of their business. If i choose to give to buy one of my adult children something that is not the business of the other adult children. They need to butt out and i will likewise (try) to butt out of their financial choices as well. However, at the end of my life, when i die, whatever i have as an estate will be equally distributed.

[movingforward]

Jul 3, 2012 7:49:39 GMT -5 @moneyjenny82 said:

why can't it be legal to punch people in the throat? Because that's the only thing I can think of to do in this situation.

the whole wedding thing is a riot. Why the hell does SIL give a crap that your bridesmaids changed clothes? This woman sounds a few sandwiches sort of a picnic to me.

[happyhoix]

I am still fixated on the damn list. Was it tied to a rock and chunked through your front window? Did she leave it on the front doormat next to a bag of flaming dog poo? Or was it artfully presented to you laying on your dinner plate, hidden under your napkin, at the next family Thanksgiving dinner?

Did she honestly think you would read the list, get to the point about being evil, and suddenly stand up and shout "You're right, I'm evil, I'm moving to a nunnery and giving away all my possessions!"

I'm just flummoxed. Usually you can understand a person's motivations for their actions. Usually.

I guess there is nothing to explain it, except 'crazy-ass.'

[zibazinski]

HH! Too funny! ;D

[Wisconsin Beth]

Karma Happy.

I think the list is funny. And I have no advice on how to deal with blatant favoritism from parents. Mine and DH's are pretty good about treating everyone reasonably equally (and it's not like anyone has money anyway.) I'm sorry you have to deal with this. It sucks.

I guess I'd try to get to a place where I can ignore it because of the energy drain on you for dwelling on it, if that makes sense.

[zibazinski]

We've had posters where one child is favored over the other. If you are the spouse of one, it hurts you to see them hurt. If you aren't the favored child, it hurts as well.

[NoNamePerson]

Jul 2, 2012 18:14:04 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

Jul 2, 2012 18:06:48 GMT -5 susanb said:

Oh, no, no, no, I do not have to see them EVERY few weeks. I have to see them in a few weeks. I see them 2-3 times a year. DH's grandfather is having a 90th b-day party. I love him dearly and wouldn't miss it for the world. The problem is that we all stay in DH's parent's house. It is a ranch style with three bedroom and 1.5 baths. There are 9 of us with SIL, BIL and their three kids. I think I am going to have to put my foot down and stay in a hotel from now on. DH will not like it and will not stay with me since there are no hotels in his small town (I will have to stay 15 minutes away) and I think emotionally he doesn't want to be kicked out of the house by his sister, sibling rivalry and all.

Susan. I don't think I'd give SIL the satisfaction of you staying in a hotel. She'd probably love having you out of the picture. I'd go and charm the pants off your MIL. Be a better daughter than SIL.

But I wouldn't take any open container drinks that she might offer. She sounds a tab unbalanced.