Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Jul 2, 2012 17:06:01 GMT -5
I found an interesting article on spanking, basically it says that spanking your kids will increase the likelihood of mental illness developing. It also increases aggression in later years. It's discouraged by pediatric professionals and outlawed in many developed countries (but not in the United States). So I thought I'd start a thread asking how you discipline your kids, and what are your thoughts on spanking? shine.yahoo.com/parenting/spanking-linked-mental-illness-says-study-175900352.htmlI had an interesting childhood, I remember when I was younger being spanked, specifically with the belt. However as I grew older it happened less and less, and my parents shifted to other discipline mechanisms. Mostly taking away privileges like seeing friends or watching TV. I don't have kids, so I don't know if my opinion amounts to much. I don't thinks spanking is that bad as long as it's done "the right way" i.e. not out of anger or frustration. Most people I've talked to (and myself included) looking back realize we deserved what we got. I don't think spanking will turn you into an axe murderer or anything. But I can see how it can foster the belief in a young mind that hitting people is okay. "Don't hit your brother" then you turn around and whack the kids brother. On the other hand, I think there are effective ways to punish your kids without hitting them. I think sending them to their rooms and taking away privileges is good for most transgressions. I also don't think that if you don't smack your kid around he'll grow up and be undisciplined. However, for serious offenses your kid does, sometimes just giving them "time out" doesn't seem to be enough, a toothless punishment. No matter what though, I think it's critical to use each "punishment" as a teaching tool. Punishing your kid without telling them the right way to handle things is doing them a disservice. You just up ending punishing them more because they don't understand the right way to behave.
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milee
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Post by milee on Jul 2, 2012 17:21:59 GMT -5
My mother beat the crap out of us, so I'm not a big fan of the "spanking." I don't do it because I'm not sure I'd do it in the correct way (not angry at all, measured response and all that) given my background, so we just don't do it. Not judging those that do, just saying it's not right for my family. We torture the kids in more creative ways. Mainly by knowing what their buttons are and pushing them when they need it. One kid loves his bike and the other loves his computer, so guess what's the first thing to go? I also sometimes spin punishments into having them do certain chores around the house that nobody wants to do. BTW, you ask about both punishment and discipline. I think they're very different things. Punishment is what we do when the rules aren't being followed or when a bad choice needs to have a consequence. Discipline is the entire behaviour modification system you use - from good examples and positive reinforcement to ignoring/extinguishment to punishment. So as far as I'm concerned, punishment is just one tiny subsection of discipline.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jul 2, 2012 18:19:00 GMT -5
I spanked my kids - my daughter one time, my son twice. It was only when they were too young to really get the impact of words and threats. It only came after other punishments were exhausted, and I was never mad or anything when I did it. It was accompanied by a "time out" and a discussion before hand, and a time out and discussion afterwards. I felt it was very effective at that age. I wouldn't dream of doing it now.
We try to follow natural consequences as much as possible - you made the mess, you clean it up. Just recently, my son made a cruical error involving a video game - so his video game privledges are revoked until further notice. But I believe he understands how the punishment is connected to the crime. It isn't like he hit a kid at school, so now he isn't allowed to ride his bike. He chose to play a video game instead of doing what he was supposed to be doing - therefore we can't trust his judgement on when playing video games is okay - therefore we can't trust him to play video games at all.
I'll be interested to see what happend when we hit junior high.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jul 2, 2012 18:24:32 GMT -5
All spanking does is enforce the notion that problems can be solved by hitting. I didn't spank my son. The most important thing was to be consistant and mean what you say....no empty threats.
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Abby Normal
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Post by Abby Normal on Jul 2, 2012 18:25:30 GMT -5
When DS was younger- sending him on a time out in another room was the absolute worst you could do. Later we starting counting to 3 when he wasn't moving fast enough. WE never actually said what the consequences would be, because we never made it past two.
Now- we just Gibbs slap him. Works wonderfully.
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susanb
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Post by susanb on Jul 2, 2012 18:30:03 GMT -5
I was a high school teacher at a co-ed prep school. The kids lived at the school. We disciplined them by keeping them physically exhausted. They worked out 3x a day and participated in training for a competitive sport (the reason they were at the prep school to begin with). They were high energy kids who had lots of discipline problems in normal classrooms. We rarely had any problems because they were just too tired.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jul 2, 2012 18:33:47 GMT -5
Time outs rarely bothered my daughter. She loved her alone time. Sometimes she wouldn't even cry or look upset. Somedays - it was useless. My son was pretty devastated by time-outs, so they were pretty effective.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Jul 2, 2012 18:35:13 GMT -5
Spanking - a little slap on the ass one time didn't do ANYTHING, and doing it harder is not something I would ever do - so, that' out. I was never spanked, but my dad did hit a few walls with his fist. We had VERY VERY sick walls and I am sure it hurt his hand I've done time-outs with my oldest when he was about 2-2.5. Worked for a bit and then didn't, so I stopped. And since he decided to do it with my middle kid - that one doesn't take it seriously AT ALL. So, now they put each other in time-outs all.the.time and it's awfully cute, but obviously carry no value for me. I've been trying to do natural consequences and it works for some things, not for others. Example: my oldest grabs things out of middle kid's hand all.the.time. I don't want to start grabbing things out of the oldest's hand, so there trying to talk and talk and talk and talk and talk to him about it. So far - no result. I just try different things and hope that some will work. Although, my experience is pretty limited, but I will have to come up with different things for them, bc they are VERY different kids Lena
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jul 2, 2012 18:45:01 GMT -5
Isn't it hilarious how different kids can be when they come from the same source material??!!
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lynnerself
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Post by lynnerself on Jul 2, 2012 19:09:35 GMT -5
I fully admit that I swatted my kids a couple of times. And it was in at least frustration if not anger. It may not have been the most effective technique, but it sure didn' t scar them for life or teach them to resolve conflict by violence. Kids are pretty resilient.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jul 2, 2012 19:23:58 GMT -5
I better stay far, far away from this one... but I'm interested to see the responses.
And I will ask a follow up question. Those who are okay with spanking... do you think it's okay for other people to discipline your kids in that manner? Say, the school or their daycare providers spank exactly the way you would in exactly the same situations, would that be okay?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2012 19:46:07 GMT -5
If this were a scientific study done by scientists I would probably pay attention. But it was done by the mental health professionals. Sorry but I don't like studies by groups that have a vested interest in the outcome. Remember that famous study that changed health care standards where your bottom should be scoped every single year? Who paid for that study? Gosh it was the people that did the scopes that paid for the study. Oh & they are the people that suggested that YOU pay THEM every year. Funny how people with vested interests always find that the results of their studies benefit them. BTW the last doctor that I talked to said that they had changed that "suggest" for the scope to once every 5 years or IF something indicated that they needed to take a look. (That's because they hurt more people than they healed & that study was done by MD's). Now back to the mental health profession. First off I've known 2 of them that were actually "normal". Most get into the career field for 2 main reasons. 1. To find out what's wrong with THEM or 2. To make money. Those getting into it to help people are few & far between. Now their criteria. It's not based on who turns out successful in life now is it? Just how well adjusted. Well the most well adjusted people that I know are happily high on dope most of the time. They would rank high in that study. The study is probably bullshit or they would have included the criteria by which they judged the results. Oh & don't forget my guess is that if you spent 1 hour with one of them & it was in their best interests that they keep seeing you (& collect payment for it) just about 100% of the people here on these boards would need serious treatment. (Again that's most of these guys. I've know 50 or so of them & 2 of them were actually in the business to HELP people. At least 6 or 8 of them were nuttier than fruitcakes). (but I've sure that some of you out there will believe everything that is published & treat it as coming from the mouth of God. If so, forget the update on the butt scope & enjoy).
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Jul 2, 2012 19:46:49 GMT -5
I'm inclined to be a non spanking parent myself. As I said, i experienced both growing up and I liked the non spanking method of parenting better, and I think the end result was the same.
I know my grandfather "spanked" aka beat the crap out my Dad, which is why I think he did it early on. I think my mother never really liked the spanking and ended up convincing my dad to become a non spaking parent.
It's interesting to hear the responses, and how not every method works for every kid. It sounds like you need to be flexible and know your child. Time outs are common, and I like the idea of punitive labor (as milee suggested), and taking away toys/items/privladges. I also now recall sometimes my parents made me or my sister run a mile or something, particularly if our acting out was the result of too much energy.
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suesinfl
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Post by suesinfl on Jul 2, 2012 19:56:24 GMT -5
I fully admit that I swatted my kids a couple of times. And it was in at least frustration if not anger. It may not have been the most effective technique, but it sure didn' t scar them for life or teach them to resolve conflict by violence. Kids are pretty resilient. I did that a couple of times when my kids were younger and found that I don't like broken blood vessels on my hand. No, it was not that I hit them hard, just that I have weak blood vessels and they break easily. Now I take away their favorite things, computer, phone, skateboard, etc. I also make them rake the yard, or other tiring chores that give them a chance to think about what they have done. I have also started threatening them with having to go into each other's room for a few hours, thanks to Zib for that suggestion. Thankfully I have had at follow thru on that one yet. By the way they are 14 and 10 now.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2012 20:19:21 GMT -5
I was a failure at spanking my kids. A swat on the bottom works when they are two or three. But at age five, my son laughed at me when I finished spanking him. I had two choices. I could hit him harder, or I could find another method of punishment. I chose another method of punishment.
He went to a school that allowed corporal punishment, and he got spanked a few times in kindergarten. However, I knew it was useless when I got a message to "talk" to the teacher. Her complaint was that he gave her this angelic smile when she spanked him so she couldn't spank him hard. She wanted him not to smile at her. Lol.
None of our methods of punishment REALLY worked. Good thing our kids were just sort of naughty.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 2, 2012 20:26:37 GMT -5
I'm telling ya, the time out in each others rooms works like a charm!
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suesinfl
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Post by suesinfl on Jul 2, 2012 20:37:14 GMT -5
I'm telling ya, the time out in each others rooms works like a charm! Zib, I really like the idea, and since I have said that I would do that, the bickering has really been minimal. ;D
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 2, 2012 20:39:07 GMT -5
Just wait until you really do it. They will initially think you are joking, then they will freak! Stand firm and you'll never have to do it again, trust me!
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suesinfl
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Post by suesinfl on Jul 2, 2012 20:46:25 GMT -5
I think that my DD (14) will freak more than her brother (10). The bad part of me really, really wants to do this, just to see how they will react. ;D
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2012 20:46:34 GMT -5
My BIL used to say (this is before he had kids) that he would just hold them by the feet over a toilet & flush it until they got the "idea".
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2012 20:49:26 GMT -5
Again as I said on another threat (not to long ago): Which method you use should work for the parent & also work for the kid. Not all parents nor all kids respond to either method. Oh & if you do a bad job as a parent, your the one that should (& probably will) pay the price.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 2, 2012 20:50:38 GMT -5
Usually the older does freak out more because they feel they have nicer stuff. But the older one counters that with threats of decapitating barbie dolls heads if his stuff is messed with. It'll work, trust me.
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suesinfl
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Post by suesinfl on Jul 2, 2012 21:18:17 GMT -5
Again as I said on another threat (not to long ago): Which method you use should work for the parent & also work for the kid. Not all parents nor all kids respond to either method. Oh & if you do a bad job as a parent, your the one that should (& probably will) pay the price.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Jul 2, 2012 21:31:55 GMT -5
Last summer, when my oldest was 3, my IL's stayed with us for about 6 wks after I had the baby and pretty much took care of him by themselves. One day, my FIL told me and my DH that he slapped E's hand bc E slapped his. I didn't like it, but didn't say anything bc 1) my FIL felt pretty bad, I think it was one of those "natural" responses, he never spanked his own kids and 2) I knew that it would never happened again. Any other circumstances I wouldn't have taken it so lightly. And let's face it, I am not shy, so have NOOO problems telling a person what's what
Lena
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2012 21:38:30 GMT -5
If this were a scientific study done by scientists I would probably pay attention. But it was done by the mental health professionals. Sorry but I don't like studies by groups that have a vested interest in the outcome. Remember that famous study that changed health care standards where your bottom should be scoped every single year? Who paid for that study? Gosh it was the people that did the scopes that paid for the study. Oh & they are the people that suggested that YOU pay THEM every year. Funny how people with vested interests always find that the results of their studies benefit them. BTW the last doctor that I talked to said that they had changed that "suggest" for the scope to once every 5 years or IF something indicated that they needed to take a look. (That's because they hurt more people than they healed & that study was done by MD's). Now back to the mental health profession. First off I've known 2 of them that were actually "normal". Most get into the career field for 2 main reasons. 1. To find out what's wrong with THEM or 2. To make money. Those getting into it to help people are few & far between. Now their criteria. It's not based on who turns out successful in life now is it? Just how well adjusted. Well the most well adjusted people that I know are happily high on dope most of the time. They would rank high in that study. The study is probably bullshit or they would have included the criteria by which they judged the results. Oh & don't forget my guess is that if you spent 1 hour with one of them & it was in their best interests that they keep seeing you (& collect payment for it) just about 100% of the people here on these boards would need serious treatment. (Again that's most of these guys. I've know 50 or so of them & 2 of them were actually in the business to HELP people. At least 6 or 8 of them were nuttier than fruitcakes). (but I've sure that some of you out there will believe everything that is published & treat it as coming from the mouth of God. If so, forget the update on the butt scope & enjoy). To assume that those who are versed in the subject should not be the ones studying it shows a complete and utter lack of understanding. I majored in psychology, biological psychology to be exact and am now getting my master's in neuroscience. To say that an MD know more about my field than me, even now, would be completely false. Most MDs have very little understand of the brain, and even amoung neurosurgeons, many would refer you to a psychologist because they do not understand the chemical issues in the brain. Also, psychologists are scientists.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2012 21:46:35 GMT -5
tex, I'm worried about your butt, man.
If by scope, you mean the doctor's finger, that was a prostate cancer screening. There isn't really any consensus on how often this should be done - it is up to each man and his provider. If you don't have any symptoms or elevated risk factors, you may be able to skip this entirely.
If by scope, you mean scope, that was a colon cancer screening. If you have access to it, go for the full colonoscopy. The prep is the same, but you can go 10 years between scopings. If you aren't at increased risk, I don't think the recommendation was ever 5 years.
I'm also a little worried about your views on mental health professionals, but the butt thing seemed more pressing.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Jul 2, 2012 21:55:09 GMT -5
I was never spanked "the right way." And, in my case, spanking didn't really have any affect on me, because it didn't address WHY I was misbehaving. I think my parents spanked because it was easiest on them, for a variety of reasons.
We don't spank. I'm lucky, because I seemed to have two "good" kids. We are super consistent with boundaries. We only punish for certain offenses (hitting, spitting, etc.), and that ranges from time outs to privileges being taken away. For whining, we ignore until we can be spoken to nicely. Otherwise, I'm a big fan of natural consequences.
We also make sure our kids get plenty of sleep and try to get them active every day. We also try to make sure our kids have some down time and aren't completely scheduled.
If spanking works for other families, I don't care. I just don't like the assumption that discipline is only done right if it includes physical punishment.
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Sam_2.0
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Post by Sam_2.0 on Jul 2, 2012 22:14:15 GMT -5
My parents utilized spankings, along with other punitive measures. And I am not opposed to spanking DD should it be necessary.
To me, spankings (1-2 swats on the bum or thigh) are for toddler-aged kids. Used as a last resort or for things that would be a physical danger (fingers in elec socket - re-direct, but smack hands if they keep going back). Kids that age don't have the ability to reason & think through things like adults do. They can not process the entire situation and realize what the consequences are. Spanking would be to deter kids from situations where you don't want them to experience the natural consequences (running into the road, for example). My parents also gave us spankings for being directly defiant or disrespectful (saying F-you, like my sister did once).
I don't really remember many spankings from my parents, but I do know that they made it a point to never do it out of anger. They would put us in our rooms to give them time to calm down first, or call in the other parent if needed. And, Firebird - they did sign the permission slips for us to get spankings at school if necessary. Actually, they signed that they would like to be called in to administer the spankings. Not one of us ever needed to have them called.
And I completely 1000% agree with the PP that said "discipline" is the entire method used to raise a kid - including positive encouragement & punitive measures when necessary. Discipline means training, not punishment. Of course the hope is that you train kids what you expect and what you consider to be the right thing to do, and then use reinforcement techniques as necessary to achieve the desired results. Every kid/parent mix will have differing methods, but hopefully all are striving to achieve the same outcomes (responsible, respectful, contributing members of society).
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hockeygrl
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Post by hockeygrl on Jul 2, 2012 23:14:55 GMT -5
My parents spanked us when we were openly defiant. Probably when we did stuff that could maim or kill us when we were toddlers but I wouldn't remember. I remember getting spanked maybe 2 or 3 times. By the time we were older than about 10, taking away privileges and/or grounding worked better.
I'm not against spanking my DS (18 months old) if I deem it appropriate. I have swatted his hand once (hot stove he wouldn't stay away from) and just yesterday I swatted his bottom once - he started to run into the road after numerous redirects. He cried for 10 seconds, then I got down on his level and explained why I swatted his bum. I didn't enjoy it, but I don't want him getting killed on our busy street. He knows to stay on the sidewalk - we've preached that since he started walking and he often runs to the edge of the sidewalk to wave to the neighbors across the street. This was a definite boundary push, and it was not acceptable.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2012 23:21:53 GMT -5
I am not against spanking but i didn't find it to be an effective tool. I did spank on occassion, but i find that it is upsetting for both parent and child. I find that it increases hostility and anger and that it really doesn't work. And, acting physically toward my child made me feel very uncomfortable. And, i really think it is only appropriate for kids between about 5 to 10 yrs. Younger kids are simply too young to understand it and older kids are starting to move into their teens and i don't think that would be appropriate either. Instead, we used time out , standing in the corner, sending kids to the their room and so forth.
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