cronewitch
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Post by cronewitch on Jun 29, 2012 13:12:18 GMT -5
What is the pregnant woman is 8 months along with her DH celebrating a major occasion? She might just order wine for the toast and only take a small sip or pretend to sip. I pretended to sip a drink to toast my brother's marriage because I wasn't drink the sparkling cider or wine whatever it was. Most women who dine with someone would just have them order the drink for her, they can't stop her from sipping his drink even if they won't serve her.
I think they should be allowed to refuse to serve but only if they publish the policy and ask all women if they are pregnant since they can't be expected to know especially the first few months when it is the most dangerous.
My niece came to her parents house and said hi grandma, hi great grandma to her mom and grandma to announce she was pregnant. So people were being called to share the good news then she went to the refrigerator and took out a coke and opened it. Someone took it from her hand and said she could have coke. Her baby is 16 now in perfect health, good thing we protected him as a fetus.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 29, 2012 13:12:30 GMT -5
Personally I would be sickened watching a pregnant woman drink alcohol. Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you SHOULD. You are no longer just talking about "your body" - your actions affect the life inside of you. If you're not ready to accept that responsibility, don't get pregnant. Again, current research shows that alcohol in moderation does the fetus no harm. I believe the current "suggested" guideline is something like no more than four drinks at any given time, and no more than six per week. I have a glass of wine with dinner on occasion. Doc says it's fine, current research says it's fine, Europeans never had a problem with it to begin with ;D So now the standard is how conservative you want to be, and that's not something anyone has the right to decide for anyone else. One drink okay, but not two? Two drinks okay, but only if you're not showing? Where do you draw the line? No, if you choose to take a risk while pregnant that is your choice. But you wont' be getting alcohol while pregnant in my house because I couldln't sit by and watch you. And research is all over the place....one year margarine is good for you, the next it causes cancer....low-carb is good...wait no, low-carb causes all kinds of issues....and so on and so on and so on. My mom's generation was also told it was ok to smoke while pregnant because that is what the research at the time said...would you seriously consider it safe today?
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jun 29, 2012 13:13:51 GMT -5
So now the standard is how conservative you want to be, and that's not something anyone has the right to decide for anyone else. Agreed, but you can't force them to endorse your decision either. You don't have an inherent right to be served at a restaurant or bar. All the bars around here have a big sign behind the bar that says we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone. You're part of anyone.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2012 13:14:25 GMT -5
Personally I would be sickened watching a pregnant woman drink alcohol. Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you SHOULD. You are no longer just talking about "your body" - your actions affect the life inside of you. If you're not ready to accept that responsibility, don't get pregnant. Again, current research shows that alcohol in moderation does the fetus no harm. I believe the current "suggested" guideline is something like no more than four drinks at any given time, and no more than six per week. I have a glass of wine with dinner on occasion. Doc says it's fine, current research says it's fine, Europeans never had a problem with it to begin with ;D So now the standard is how conservative you want to be, and that's not something anyone has the right to decide for anyone else. One drink okay, but not two? Two drinks okay, but only if you're not showing? Where do you draw the line? "research" and "studies" can be flawed. And they can't outright run these experiments on pregnant women - it's unethical. So I'm guessing the imformation is reported by the women studied. All women are different. You don't know just how much alcohol cam cause FAS or which drink will be the one to push you over that threshold. I just don't see why you would want to tempt fate. Is it really that hard to abstain from drinking until evacuation day?
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greenstone
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Post by greenstone on Jun 29, 2012 13:14:44 GMT -5
Thanks for the clarification on age discrimination, that makes sense.
So do the 'protected classes' apply to private businesses? Doesn't Augusta National prohibit women members (or did so until recently)? Can a privately-owned restaurant be women/men only?
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jun 29, 2012 13:15:20 GMT -5
My OB said "Eh, a glass of wine with dinner once of month won't hurt." Don't drink every day.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jun 29, 2012 13:15:49 GMT -5
I drank like a moron before I found out I was pregnant with both my kids. My doctor said that the first six weeks the baby is protected from dumb choices by something or something, some-some. (Okay, I don't recall.)
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Jun 29, 2012 13:16:16 GMT -5
And, yes, the biggest risk time is the first trimester, before some women even know they are pregnant. Which, incidentally, is when they're most likely to drink the MOST. I have a friend who got pregnant shortly before a couple weeks in Cancun. She came back, found out she was around six weeks pregnant, and FREAKED OUT because she'd spent most of her vacation getting plastered every night. Poor thing had a miserable pregnancy wondering every day if she'd irreparably harmed her kiddo. Baby is just fine and dandy, no ill effects. Did she just get lucky? Maybe. But I don't hold her responsible for her actions when she had no idea she was pregnant. Same thing happened to a friend of mine. She had been trying to get pregnant for a year. A bunch of friends took a cruise together and she was sitting there doing tequila shots talking about how she has had such a hard time getting pregnant and wonders if she ever will. She found out a week after she got back that she was about 6 weeks pregnant. She had no idea.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jun 29, 2012 13:16:44 GMT -5
And teh link I posted before from the ACOG said it isn't safe...and the following link says that there is no known safe amount of alcohol to drinkThat's the conservative stance, because nothing is guaranteed in life. This study, however, shows that light to moderate drinking is probably safe. healthland.time.com/2012/06/20/alcohol-in-pregnancy-light-to-moderate-drinking-is-safe-study-says/Almost anything COULD harm your developing baby. Hell, I was around three months pregnant when we were moving, and as I was lifting a chair up the stairs, my fingers slipped and the chair crashed into my belly. Should I never ever lift anything that could potentially bump baby the wrong way? FYI, almost every mother I know drank while she was pregnant (some quite heavily in early pregnancy when they didn't know they were pregnant) and I know no kids with FAS. I don't understand the disgust. Why is a woman's every decision suddenly subject to public scrutiny and judgment when she decides to procreate?
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 29, 2012 13:16:51 GMT -5
www.acog.org/About_ACOG/News_Room/News_Releases/2008/Alcohol_and_Pregnancy_Know_the_FactsSwamp...according to their website, ACOG says that woman should avoid all alcohol during pregnancy.....unless they have updated their website but not their articles. I have a serious issue with pregnant women drinking but I am not the morality police...besides, the biggest risk I would think would be earlier in the pregnancy when people aren't even showing. It was on TV the other day. The synopsis was "a little drink late in pregnancy isnt' necessarily bad. More than 1 is bad. We tell women no alcohol because some don't really get what 1 drink means. But if you want to have 1, and only 1, glass of wine at 8 months, don't worry about it." And, yes, the biggest risk time is the first trimester, before some women even know they are pregnant. Doesn't that prove what I am saying, then? first, I can't find a link from the ACOG discussing their change of heart, but the link I posted earlier was only 4 years old (but on their website still)....so in 4 years they go from "no alcohol" to some is ok. 4 years from now they might decide they were wrong....
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jun 29, 2012 13:17:20 GMT -5
Doesn't Augusta National prohibit women members (or did so until recently)? There are different rules that apply to members only clubs and businesses that are open to the public.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Jun 29, 2012 13:18:13 GMT -5
Personally I would be sickened watching a pregnant woman drink alcohol. Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you SHOULD. You are no longer just talking about "your body" - your actions affect the life inside of you. If you're not ready to accept that responsibility, don't get pregnant. Again, current research shows that alcohol in moderation does the fetus no harm. I believe the current "suggested" guideline is something like no more than four drinks at any given time, and no more than six per week. I have a glass of wine with dinner on occasion. Doc says it's fine, current research says it's fine, Europeans never had a problem with it to begin with ;D So now the standard is how conservative you want to be, and that's not something anyone has the right to decide for anyone else. One drink okay, but not two? Two drinks okay, but only if you're not showing? Where do you draw the line? No, if you choose to take a risk while pregnant that is your choice. But you wont' be getting alcohol while pregnant in my house because I couldln't sit by and watch you. And research is all over the place....one year margarine is good for you, the next it causes cancer....low-carb is good...wait no, low-carb causes all kinds of issues....and so on and so on and so on. My mom's generation was also told it was ok to smoke while pregnant because that is what the research at the time said...would you seriously consider it safe today? There has never been any research ever that has shown one drink while pregnant will cause a problem EVER. This is not about shifting research, this about getting better defined research as to what is harmful and what isn't. Both studies I posted were studies done after the fact. The women self reported how much they drank and the children were studied as to any effects.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 29, 2012 13:18:26 GMT -5
Personally I would be sickened watching a pregnant woman drink alcohol. Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you SHOULD. You are no longer just talking about "your body" - your actions affect the life inside of you. If you're not ready to accept that responsibility, don't get pregnant. Again, current research shows that alcohol in moderation does the fetus no harm. I believe the current "suggested" guideline is something like no more than four drinks at any given time, and no more than six per week. I have a glass of wine with dinner on occasion. Doc says it's fine, current research says it's fine, Europeans never had a problem with it to begin with ;D So now the standard is how conservative you want to be, and that's not something anyone has the right to decide for anyone else. One drink okay, but not two? Two drinks okay, but only if you're not showing? Where do you draw the line? "research" and "studies" can be flawed. And they can't outright run these experiments on pregnant women - it's unethical. So I'm guessing the imformation is reported by the women studied. All women are different. You don't know just how much alcohol cam cause FAS or which drink will be the one to push you over that threshold. I just don't see why you would want to tempt fate. Is it really that hard to abstain from drinking until evacuation day? I gave up wine AND alcohol...and I am a huge caffeine addict and I obviously love my cocktails :-) The risk just isn't worth it to me
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jun 29, 2012 13:19:01 GMT -5
You don't have an inherent right to be served at a restaurant or bar. All the bars around here have a big sign behind the bar that says we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone. You're part of anyone.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 29, 2012 13:19:23 GMT -5
No, if you choose to take a risk while pregnant that is your choice. But you wont' be getting alcohol while pregnant in my house because I couldln't sit by and watch you. And research is all over the place....one year margarine is good for you, the next it causes cancer....low-carb is good...wait no, low-carb causes all kinds of issues....and so on and so on and so on. My mom's generation was also told it was ok to smoke while pregnant because that is what the research at the time said...would you seriously consider it safe today? There has never been any research ever that has shown one drink while pregnant will cause a problem EVER. This is not about shifting research, this about getting better defined research as to what is harmful and what isn't. Both studies I posted were studies done after the fact. The women self reported how much they drank and the children were studied as to any effects. And there is not one study out there that can say for absolute certainly that any amount of alcohol is safe during pregnancy.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jun 29, 2012 13:20:04 GMT -5
I'm glad I'm done with the preganacy portion of my life. I opted not to drink, except one half-glass of wine with each child, in appx month 5. All the rules and shit - just not an experience that was super-awesome. It was the means to an end for me. I did it, I followed the rules the best that I could. I didn't drop dead from not drinking, not eating tuna, missing out on frech cheese, etc. 9 months really isn't that long in the grand scheme of things.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jun 29, 2012 13:20:06 GMT -5
Personally I would be sickened watching a pregnant woman drink alcohol. Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you SHOULD. You are no longer just talking about "your body" - your actions affect the life inside of you. If you're not ready to accept that responsibility, don't get pregnant. Again, current research shows that alcohol in moderation does the fetus no harm. I believe the current "suggested" guideline is something like no more than four drinks at any given time, and no more than six per week. I have a glass of wine with dinner on occasion. Doc says it's fine, current research says it's fine, Europeans never had a problem with it to begin with ;D So now the standard is how conservative you want to be, and that's not something anyone has the right to decide for anyone else. One drink okay, but not two? Two drinks okay, but only if you're not showing? Where do you draw the line? "research" and "studies" can be flawed. And they can't outright run these experiments on pregnant women - it's unethical. So I'm guessing the imformation is reported by the women studied. All women are different. You don't know just how much alcohol cam cause FAS or which drink will be the one to push you over that threshold. I just don't see why you would want to tempt fate. Is it really that hard to abstain from drinking until evacuation day? actually, I tried to have a glass of wine at 7 months. It gave me such bad heartburn that I couldn't drink it. With my second, I didn't know I was pregnant until 20 months, so she had quite a few doses of alcohol. Had I known I was pregnant, I would not have drank.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jun 29, 2012 13:20:46 GMT -5
I don't understand the disgust. Go down to your local elementary school. Ask to talk to one of the special ed teachers. Ask her/him if you can sit in the back of their classroom for an hour one day. At the end of that day, talk to the teacher again, and find out how many of those kids will never live a normal life because of dumb ass choices their selfish mother made because she couldn't control herself for 9 months. If you still fell like playing russian roulette with your future kid after that, knock yourself out.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jun 29, 2012 13:21:22 GMT -5
A couple of years ago, I went out drinking with my friend to celebrate the fact that she "got her body back" since she had stopped breastfeeding. Her kiddo was 1.5 years old. She is/was obese.
Three separate people came up to her and lambasted her for drinking while pregnant....
See, this kind of crap is the reason I'm against this sort of thing. It's no one else's business! And do you really want to make an ass of yourself assuming someone is pregnant only to find out they're not?
It's funny to me that people feel entitled to judge a stranger for doing something just because they can visibly see that she's pregnant. If pregnancy didn't show in women, you'd never know and therefore never have occasion to judge them. Yet it's okay because you can clearly see they they're having a baby. Which would otherwise be very private information and none of your fucking business.
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greenstone
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Post by greenstone on Jun 29, 2012 13:21:31 GMT -5
You don't have an inherent right to be served at a restaurant or bar. All the bars around here have a big sign behind the bar that says we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone. You're part of anyone. That pretty much eloquently sums it up.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jun 29, 2012 13:22:13 GMT -5
BAW-HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2012 13:22:21 GMT -5
And teh link I posted before from the ACOG said it isn't safe...and the following link says that there is no known safe amount of alcohol to drinkThat's the conservative stance, because nothing is guaranteed in life. This study, however, shows that light to moderate drinking is probably safe. healthland.time.com/2012/06/20/alcohol-in-pregnancy-light-to-moderate-drinking-is-safe-study-says/Almost anything COULD harm your developing baby. Hell, I was around three months pregnant when we were moving, and as I was lifting a chair up the stairs, my fingers slipped and the chair crashed into my belly. Should I never ever lift anything that could potentially bump baby the wrong way? FYI, almost every mother I know drank while she was pregnant (some quite heavily in early pregnancy when they didn't know they were pregnant) and I know no kids with FAS. I don't understand the disgust. Why is a woman's every decision suddenly subject to public scrutiny and judgment when she decides to procreate? During your pregnancy you can juggle knives while drunk for all I care. You are not legally barred from doing so. And I will look at you feeling disgusted and sad - I'm not legally barred from doing so. Just because something is legal doesn't mean everyone has to like it. So pregnant women can keep drinking and I will keep feeling disgusted.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jun 29, 2012 13:23:21 GMT -5
You think I need a clear physical marker to judge people?!
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jun 29, 2012 13:25:06 GMT -5
Seriously, I ddin't. It was mortifying!!!! I have PCOS, so I don't menstruate. I was sick, but I also had gall bladder problems that mimic pregnancy sickness. I was tired, but I also had an infant and was working full time, so I figured it was that. I took a pregnancy test and it came up negative.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jun 29, 2012 13:25:14 GMT -5
I don't care what anyone does during their own pregnancy, that's your business. But I also support a business's right to make an incredibly stupid yet totally legal decision on thier part to refuse to serve a pregnant woman alcohol. I am free to tell them take a hike and go find a place that will serve me.
I don't want to live in a place where every time someone is offended we have to make a new law.
They aren't kicking you out, they aren't preventing you from eating, they are just saying they won't serve you alcohol with your meal. That's their incredibly stupid right.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Jun 29, 2012 13:25:16 GMT -5
"research" and "studies" can be flawed. And they can't outright run these experiments on pregnant women - it's unethical. So I'm guessing the imformation is reported by the women studied. All women are different. You don't know just how much alcohol cam cause FAS or which drink will be the one to push you over that threshold. I just don't see why you would want to tempt fate. Is it really that hard to abstain from drinking until evacuation day?
Sure studies can be flawed, sure, but the studies that are coming out are IMO common sense. It is what should have come out a long time ago (again IMO). They are defining what is "too much". Again, common sense because Europeans drink like that all the time while pregnant and it is not taboo. It is pretty easy to avoid drinking while pregnant, I don't personally drink while pregnant myself and I drink fairly little while not pregnant. But the this is why the stance on well you can just wait bothers me - if I'm out in October with my DH for our anniversary, we got a babysitter for the night (actually it looks like we are going to be out of town without DS) and I want a glass of wine with him, there is nothing wrong with that and there is no risk with that. If someone says, NO! NO! NO! you are harming your baby over my one drink my entire pregnancy, I'm going to be pretty POed at them. Just like people who tell me "you can't drink while breastfeeding" that is also incorrect.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 29, 2012 13:25:45 GMT -5
I don't understand the disgust. Go down to your local elementary school. Ask to talk to one of the special ed teachers. Ask her/him if you can sit in the back of their classroom for an hour one day. At the end of that day, talk to the teacher again, and find out how many of those kids will never live a normal life because of dumb ass choices their selfish mother made because she couldn't control herself for 9 months. If you still fell like playing russian roulette with your future kid after that, knock yourself out. I can't kiss you (because of distance and the fact that your wife would kick my ass!lol) but I am giving you Karma for this! I dont understand the "it's my body I will do what I want" without any regard to the life inside of them.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jun 29, 2012 13:27:12 GMT -5
You don't know just how much alcohol cam cause FAS or which drink will be the one to push you over that threshold. I just don't see why you would want to tempt fate. Is it really that hard to abstain from drinking until evacuation day?
Are you specifically addressing me or is this a general question? Because I've averaged one drink a month (all after the first trimester) and every doctor I've seen has said that's fine.
Like I said, all the women I know who have had a kid in the last ten years drank while pregnant. Some drank much, much more than me. They all have perfect babies. I'm not too worried. Sure, I COULD abstain completely - I could also stop driving until I give birth... after all, if I get in a car crash, the likelihood that the baby will be harmed is quite high... should I do that too?
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jun 29, 2012 13:28:08 GMT -5
Agreed, but you can't force them to endorse your decision either. You don't have an inherent right to be served at a restaurant or bar. All the bars around here have a big sign behind the bar that says we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone. You're part of anyone.
True. Just like I don't have to "endorse" the choice of fat people to have a second dessert. I think I'm going to open a bakery and institute that policy.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jun 29, 2012 13:28:14 GMT -5
If someone says, NO! NO! NO! you are harming your baby over my one drink my entire pregnancy, I'm going to be pretty POed at them. Which is totally your right, but you can't force a business owner to sell you the booze. They have a right to run their business how they see fit, and you have your rights as a customer to tell him that he's an idiot and you're taking your business elsewhere.
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