Miss Tequila
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 10:13:45 GMT -5
Posts: 20,602
|
Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 29, 2012 12:47:08 GMT -5
Honestly, to me the biggest risk are those ladies that carry their fat in the front. I've known several people that look pregnant, but are really just fat (or have an unusally long gestation period - you know, years and years.) Do you really want your servers going around asking people if they are fat or pregnant? It seems like a good way to just piss everyone off. Unless of course, you run one of those clubs where you are trying to shame the fat ugo's out. Then, I think it is an excellent policy. LOL!! And I have been guilty of asking "so when are you do" only to get reprimanded!lol I also was asked when I was due one week after giving birth to my youngest...the kicker was I was carrying her in her infant seat when I was asked!lol
|
|
thyme4change
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
Posts: 40,371
|
Post by thyme4change on Jun 29, 2012 12:49:21 GMT -5
Restaraunt owners should not get in the habit of pissing off obese people.
|
|
Sum Dum Gai
Senior Associate
Joined: Aug 15, 2011 15:39:24 GMT -5
Posts: 19,892
|
Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jun 29, 2012 12:50:29 GMT -5
Restaraunt owners should not get in the habit of pissing off obese people. But they should be free to do so. It might not be a great business decision, but it's theirs to make.
|
|
Firebird
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 29, 2010 12:55:06 GMT -5
Posts: 12,448
|
Post by Firebird on Jun 29, 2012 12:51:36 GMT -5
Because an obese person is damaging themselves...and pregnant woman is harming her innocent baby...I have a major issue with that.
Not according to the current research. If she's not binge drinking, the baby is just fine. Doing crack cocaine, that's a little different (but then again, crack cocaine is illegal for anyone).
Like Mid said, if you want to police what a pregnant women is doing to harm her baby, you're going to find fault with practically everything she eats. Do you really want to be the person who's yanking a piece of cheese out of a pregnant lady's hand because it's pasteurized?
|
|
thyme4change
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
Posts: 40,371
|
Post by thyme4change on Jun 29, 2012 12:51:46 GMT -5
You are correct, Dark.
|
|
Firebird
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 29, 2010 12:55:06 GMT -5
Posts: 12,448
|
Post by Firebird on Jun 29, 2012 12:53:24 GMT -5
Restaraunt owners should not get in the habit of pissing off obese people. But they should be free to do so. It might not be a great business decision, but it's theirs to make. Then they should also be free not to serve women. I honestly see no difference. That's why the whole "it's okay to discriminate except when it's not" thing seems so nuts to me. "If you don't like it, take your business elsewhere"
|
|
Sum Dum Gai
Senior Associate
Joined: Aug 15, 2011 15:39:24 GMT -5
Posts: 19,892
|
Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jun 29, 2012 12:55:17 GMT -5
Then they should also be free not to serve women. I honestly see no difference. Neither do I really, but I don't write the laws. I obviously wouldn't patronize a place that refused to serve women, minorities, people who "looked gay", or whatever, but I don't fundamentally see a difference between that and a no shirt, no shoes, no service sign.
|
|
thyme4change
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
Posts: 40,371
|
Post by thyme4change on Jun 29, 2012 12:55:50 GMT -5
In our area there are a lot of places that appear to serve men only. Maybe they 'would' serve a woman, but it probably doesn't come up as much as you would think.
|
|
greenstone
Established Member
Joined: Jan 8, 2011 13:57:20 GMT -5
Posts: 353
|
Post by greenstone on Jun 29, 2012 12:56:12 GMT -5
Um, gender is a protected class, so legally there is a huge difference.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Apr 18, 2024 21:34:21 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2012 12:57:12 GMT -5
Should a restaurant be allowed to create a company policy that they do not serve alcohol to visibly pregnant women (even though to do so is not illegal)? Should individual servers be permitted to deny alcohol if they have a moral issue with pregnant women drinking? Yes, and yes. It's a free country, and that applies to business owners too. They're free to run their businesses how they see fit as long as they aren't breaking the law in doing so. I liken it to not serving an obese person dessert because you consider it unhealthy. That slope can get mighty slippery pretty fast. I'd be fine with that one too. I don't think obesity is a protected class yet. If you don't like it, take your business elsewhere. to everything in this post. Personally I would be sickened watching a pregnant woman drink alcohol. Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you SHOULD. You are no longer just talking about "your body" - your actions affect the life inside of you. If you're not ready to accept that responsibility, don't get pregnant.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Apr 18, 2024 21:34:21 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2012 12:58:22 GMT -5
Restaraunt owners should not get in the habit of pissing off obese people. But they should be free to do so. It might not be a great business decision, but it's theirs to make. Then they should also be free not to serve women. I honestly see no difference. That's why the whole "it's okay to discriminate except when it's not" thing seems so nuts to me. "If you don't like it, take your business elsewhere" Gender is an immutable characteristic - pregnancy is a choice.
|
|
Sum Dum Gai
Senior Associate
Joined: Aug 15, 2011 15:39:24 GMT -5
Posts: 19,892
|
Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jun 29, 2012 12:59:02 GMT -5
Um, gender is a protected class, so legally there is a huge difference. Yeah, legally. In practice it doesn't make a lick of sense that a business owner can discriminate against kids, pregnant women, fat people, anyone not wearing a coat and tie, etc., etc. but they can't discriminate along racial or gender lines. Kid's can't change the fact that they're kids, just like minorities can't change the fact that they're minorities. However, it's completely legal to discriminate against one group and not the other. Makes no damn sense. Except to some lawyer somewhere.
|
|
Sum Dum Gai
Senior Associate
Joined: Aug 15, 2011 15:39:24 GMT -5
Posts: 19,892
|
Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jun 29, 2012 13:00:39 GMT -5
Gender is an immutable characteristic - pregnancy is a choice. Getting old is a choice too, you could always off yourself on your 21st birthday Logan's Run style. However, seniors are a protected class too.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Apr 18, 2024 21:34:21 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2012 13:02:01 GMT -5
Dark, being a kid is a temporary condition, like pregnancy. You didn't choose to be a kid, but you'll (presumably ) grow up.
|
|
Miss Tequila
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 10:13:45 GMT -5
Posts: 20,602
|
Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 29, 2012 13:02:52 GMT -5
Because an obese person is damaging themselves...and pregnant woman is harming her innocent baby...I have a major issue with that. Not according to the current research. If she's not binge drinking, the baby is just fine. Doing crack cocaine, that's a little different (but then again, crack cocaine is illegal for anyone). And teh link I posted before from the ACOG said it isn't safe...and the following link says that there is no known safe amount of alcohol to drink www.americanpregnancy.org/pregnancyhealth/alcohol.htmlMuch like everything else...there are conflicting reports and when it comes to a baby, I can't understand taking the risk.
|
|
muttleynfelix
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:32:52 GMT -5
Posts: 9,406
|
Post by muttleynfelix on Jun 29, 2012 13:04:12 GMT -5
Um, gender is a protected class, so legally there is a huge difference. Since pregnancy is something that can happen to women, you are discriminating against a gender by refusing to serve "pregnant women". (ie - It is illegal to fire a pregnant woman for being pregnant).
|
|
Miss Tequila
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 10:13:45 GMT -5
Posts: 20,602
|
Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 29, 2012 13:04:33 GMT -5
Should a restaurant be allowed to create a company policy that they do not serve alcohol to visibly pregnant women (even though to do so is not illegal)? Should individual servers be permitted to deny alcohol if they have a moral issue with pregnant women drinking? Yes, and yes. It's a free country, and that applies to business owners too. They're free to run their businesses how they see fit as long as they aren't breaking the law in doing so. I liken it to not serving an obese person dessert because you consider it unhealthy. That slope can get mighty slippery pretty fast. I'd be fine with that one too. I don't think obesity is a protected class yet. If you don't like it, take your business elsewhere. to everything in this post. Personally I would be sickened watching a pregnant woman drink alcohol. Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you SHOULD. You are no longer just talking about "your body" - your actions affect the life inside of you. If you're not ready to accept that responsibility, don't get pregnant. So much this! No one can say for sure whether alcohol does or does not hurt the baby..I honestly can't imagine taking that risk. And I want to scream when I do see a pregnant person drinking aclohol or smoking cigarettes...
|
|
Sum Dum Gai
Senior Associate
Joined: Aug 15, 2011 15:39:24 GMT -5
Posts: 19,892
|
Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jun 29, 2012 13:05:01 GMT -5
Dark, being a kid is a temporary condition, like pregnancy. You didn't choose to be a kid, but you'll (presumably ) grow up. Being old is a temporary condition too. Sooner or later you'll stop being a senior citizen and become a corpse. It's still protected. Being a member of any religion is a choice, and we still protect that too.
|
|
greenstone
Established Member
Joined: Jan 8, 2011 13:57:20 GMT -5
Posts: 353
|
Post by greenstone on Jun 29, 2012 13:05:34 GMT -5
Yeah, legally. In practice it doesn't make a lick of sense that a business owner can discriminate against kids, pregnant women, fat people, anyone not wearing a coat and tie, etc., etc. but they can't discriminate along racial or gender lines. Kid's can't change the fact that they're kids, just like minorities can't change the fact that they're minorities. However, it's completely legal to discriminate against one group and not the other. Makes no damn sense. Except to some lawyer somewhere. Just out of curiosity, where do you want to draw the line on what is a business owners decision and what is not since you don't like where the law currently has drawn it? And you raise the question, how can you bar kids since that would be age discrimination?
|
|
Firebird
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 29, 2010 12:55:06 GMT -5
Posts: 12,448
|
Post by Firebird on Jun 29, 2012 13:06:00 GMT -5
Um, gender is a protected class, so legally there is a huge difference.
My point is, I don't see why there should BE a huge legal difference. Either way, you're trimming your customer list based solely on personal preference. Who cares WHO you're discriminating against? It's ugly and mean no matter who you're excluding.
|
|
susanb
Well-Known Member
Joined: Jun 21, 2012 14:16:56 GMT -5
Posts: 1,430
|
Post by susanb on Jun 29, 2012 13:06:32 GMT -5
A couple of years ago, I went out drinking with my friend to celebrate the fact that she "got her body back" since she had stopped breastfeeding. Her kiddo was 1.5 years old. She is/was obese.
Three separate people came up to her and lambasted her for drinking while pregnant....
|
|
Miss Tequila
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 10:13:45 GMT -5
Posts: 20,602
|
Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 29, 2012 13:07:16 GMT -5
Um, gender is a protected class, so legally there is a huge difference.My point is, I don't see why there should BE a huge legal difference. Either way, you're trimming your customer list based solely on personal preference. Who cares WHO you're discriminating against? It's ugly and mean no matter who you're excluding. It's not trimming your customer base....the restaurant isn't refusing to allow pregnant women in. They would be refusing to help them harm their babies...
|
|
swamp
Community Leader
Don't be a fool. Call me!
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 16:03:22 GMT -5
Posts: 45,306
|
Post by swamp on Jun 29, 2012 13:08:30 GMT -5
www.acog.org/About_ACOG/News_Room/News_Releases/2008/Alcohol_and_Pregnancy_Know_the_FactsSwamp...according to their website, ACOG says that woman should avoid all alcohol during pregnancy.....unless they have updated their website but not their articles. I have a serious issue with pregnant women drinking but I am not the morality police...besides, the biggest risk I would think would be earlier in the pregnancy when people aren't even showing. It was on TV the other day. The synopsis was "a little drink late in pregnancy isnt' necessarily bad. More than 1 is bad. We tell women no alcohol because some don't really get what 1 drink means. But if you want to have 1, and only 1, glass of wine at 8 months, don't worry about it." And, yes, the biggest risk time is the first trimester, before some women even know they are pregnant.
|
|
movingforward
Junior Associate
Joined: Sept 15, 2011 12:48:31 GMT -5
Posts: 8,358
|
Post by movingforward on Jun 29, 2012 13:08:31 GMT -5
"And you raise the question, how can you bar kids since that would be age discrimination?"
To my knowledge only people 40+ are a protected class under age discrimination.
|
|
Firebird
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 29, 2010 12:55:06 GMT -5
Posts: 12,448
|
Post by Firebird on Jun 29, 2012 13:09:13 GMT -5
Personally I would be sickened watching a pregnant woman drink alcohol. Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you SHOULD. You are no longer just talking about "your body" - your actions affect the life inside of you. If you're not ready to accept that responsibility, don't get pregnant.
Again, current research shows that alcohol in moderation does the fetus no harm. I believe the current "suggested" guideline is something like no more than four drinks at any given time, and no more than six per week.
I have a glass of wine with dinner on occasion. Doc says it's fine, current research says it's fine, Europeans never had a problem with it to begin with ;D
So now the standard is how conservative you want to be, and that's not something anyone has the right to decide for anyone else. One drink okay, but not two? Two drinks okay, but only if you're not showing? Where do you draw the line?
|
|
Sum Dum Gai
Senior Associate
Joined: Aug 15, 2011 15:39:24 GMT -5
Posts: 19,892
|
Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jun 29, 2012 13:09:26 GMT -5
Just out of curiosity, where do you want to draw the line on what is a business owners decision and what is not since you don't like where the law currently has drawn it? If I had more faith in humanity I'd say get rid of all protected classes and let the market sort it out. If some douche opens a white's only restaurant in your town, it would be up the citizens in said town to never spend a single dollar at the guys place to show him that he's a despicable asshole and you won't put up with it. However, I don't have that much faith in humanity so we should probably stick to some version of what we have now. And you raise the question, how can you bar kids since that would be age discrimination? Age discrimination is totally and completely legal, as long as you aren't targeting seniors. They're protected. Everyone else is fair game. Theoretically you could open a club that only allows people 21-30 in. Except that you'd have to take seniors as well. You could tell middle age people to suck an egg though, and it's totally legal.
|
|
thyme4change
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
Posts: 40,371
|
Post by thyme4change on Jun 29, 2012 13:09:28 GMT -5
Does age discrimination apply to services? I thought it only applied to employment.
|
|
movingforward
Junior Associate
Joined: Sept 15, 2011 12:48:31 GMT -5
Posts: 8,358
|
Post by movingforward on Jun 29, 2012 13:11:22 GMT -5
Does age discrimination apply to services? I thought it only applied to employment. I think you are right. I was getting it confused with employment
|
|
Firebird
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 29, 2010 12:55:06 GMT -5
Posts: 12,448
|
Post by Firebird on Jun 29, 2012 13:11:28 GMT -5
And, yes, the biggest risk time is the first trimester, before some women even know they are pregnant.
Which, incidentally, is when they're most likely to drink the MOST. I have a friend who got pregnant shortly before a couple weeks in Cancun. She came back, found out she was around six weeks pregnant, and FREAKED OUT because she'd spent most of her vacation getting plastered every night. Poor thing had a miserable pregnancy wondering every day if she'd irreparably harmed her kiddo.
Baby is just fine and dandy, no ill effects. Did she just get lucky? Maybe. But I don't hold her responsible for her actions when she had no idea she was pregnant.
|
|
muttleynfelix
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:32:52 GMT -5
Posts: 9,406
|
Post by muttleynfelix on Jun 29, 2012 13:11:56 GMT -5
Because an obese person is damaging themselves...and pregnant woman is harming her innocent baby...I have a major issue with that. Not according to the current research. If she's not binge drinking, the baby is just fine. Doing crack cocaine, that's a little different (but then again, crack cocaine is illegal for anyone). And teh link I posted before from the ACOG said it isn't safe...and the following link says that there is no known safe amount of alcohol to drink www.americanpregnancy.org/pregnancyhealth/alcohol.htmlMuch like everything else...there are conflicting reports and when it comes to a baby, I can't understand taking the risk. American OBGYNs take a very conservative stance on drinking in pregnancy. My OBs office admits that "As little as one drink a day may cause harm, so therefore we say don't drink". The studies don't say one drink ever, they say one drink a day (over the course of a pregnancy that is roughly 266 drinks - quite a few in my book). New studies from Great Britain and Denmark are defining what is "too much" drinking. Where it starts to cause problems. Reason american OBGYNs take the no alcohol stance is that someone somewhere will take the occaisonal drink to mean " having 8 drinks in a row on a saturday night during pregnancy as being ok" (quoting a friend on that one). New studies that have been published in the last couple months which to me just define what should have been common sense. The US has the highest rate of FAS because we binge drink and don't understand moderation (IMO). Whereas European countries drink occaisonally with meals and have no problems. news.discovery.com/human/alcohol-drinking-pregnant-women.htmlhealthland.time.com/2012/06/20/alcohol-in-pregnancy-light-to-moderate-drinking-is-safe-study-says/
|
|