Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Jun 27, 2012 17:41:40 GMT -5
Yeah, I think there's a big difference in expecting someone to finish up a 3 week season and working in a job you hate for several decades. You can easily finish up the former but should fold on the latter.
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NoNamePerson
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Post by NoNamePerson on Jun 27, 2012 18:08:43 GMT -5
I never made my son fini
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jun 27, 2012 18:14:31 GMT -5
Yeah, I think there's a big difference in expecting someone to finish up a 3 week season and working in a job you hate for several decades. You can easily finish up the former but should fold on the latter.
So, about this - I *do* have somewhat of an issue making it about how much longer you have to stick with something.
This doesn't specifically apply to this situation because it sounds like fear may be a big factor, but just in general - let's say I hate something, REALLY hate it deep in my bones. Being raised with the idea that if you "only" have X time left in this activity, you "should" stick it out can make you stick with things for much longer than you should.
3.5 weeks, obviously, is short enough that most of us can probably agree that sticking it out is best. HOWEVER, it was that "well, you ONLY have a month to go, you ONLY have the rest of the school year to go" mentality that almost kept me in college when I had ONLY two years to go.
Two years, in the grand scheme of things, is also not that long. And most people would probably say that you should stay in school and finish the degree if you "only" have two more years, because the reward is worth it. But for the fact that I was fucking miserable, and I reached a point where two years of hell wasn't worth it for me anymore, I probably would have talked myself into staying those two years. And as I said, it was absolutely the right decision to leave at that point. Staying would have been the mistake.
In other words, I guess what I'm saying is that I would try not to overemphasize the "you ONLY have x more time left at this activity" aspect. Yes, it's nice to have a finish line in sight but it's also, sometimes, not worth staying with something one more minute if it's making you miserable enough. Sometimes you have to cut your losses.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jun 27, 2012 18:25:46 GMT -5
FB! The difference is that you were an adult and realized college wasn't for you. Dark has a 10 year old that probably doesn't want to play because it hurts to get hit by a pitch.
I would NOT let my kid quit because she got a bruise from a ball. You fall off the horse, you get back on, and letting her quit now would teach her that you can quit when things get tough.
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milee
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Post by milee on Jun 27, 2012 18:38:08 GMT -5
I never forced the kids to take part in any extra-curricular activity if they didn't want to participate. If they wanted to quit in the middle of something, however, they were going to have to sit down and listen to me expound on why that wasn't a very responsible, or thoughtful thing to do, and how they should think of others besides themselves. I'm not sure whether their consciences got to them, or whether they just didn't want to have to hear it anymore, but they never quit in the middle. We use that approach as well. Older son is a tough nut, though and last year tried to call our bluff, telling us that he really didn't care about being responsible, thoughtful, etc. So we unfortunately had to up the stakes a bit. Arguing doesn't work, appealing to his conscience didn't work in this situation, so we switched tactics. Sure, he could quit rowing, he'd just need to pay us back for the unused fees (about $500). As soon as he came up with the cash to buy us out, he could quit. He's a budding YMer, so he quickly decided it wasn't worth paying the $500 to quit and stuck with it for the rest of the year. I was especially proud of him when he tried to bargain first using the time value of money theory and then using the "sunk" cost discussion.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Jun 27, 2012 18:39:15 GMT -5
Personally, I try to teach my kids as little as possible so 1) I have more free time and 2) I can't be blamed for their screw-ups later.
Lena
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jun 27, 2012 18:59:41 GMT -5
FB! The difference is that you were an adult and realized college wasn't for you. Dark has a 10 year old that probably doesn't want to play because it hurts to get hit by a pitch.
Like I said upfront, I wasn't talking specifically about Lil Dark in that last post.
I was talking in general about the merits of teaching a kid to stick something out even if they hate it. IMO, how much longer you have to do the activity you hate shouldn't be the main (or even a very big) factor.
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Jun 27, 2012 18:59:52 GMT -5
As I said back on page 1, I do think fear might have something to do with it and Dark's daughter doesn't even realize. I rode horses all the time- competed in gymkhana's all the time. I fell off/got thrown countless numbers of times. Most of the time, I was in the middle of something, so just got right back on after my head cleared (80s, western, no one wore helmets). However, one time, years into my riding "career" I fell off at the end of the day. I didn't get back on the horse that day. I walked her to the barn and brushed her, etc, but I literally did not get back in the saddle. For the next month or so, I constantly had an excuse as to why I couldn't ride. I certainly wasn't afraid of riding- I knew that for certain. I'd fallen off numerous times before. But it really did take close to 6 weeks for me to get on horseback again, and I was nervous about it when it happened. I can look back now and recognize the fear, but I couldn't see it then.
I am glad that Dark made her play the next couple of games. That forced her to get over her fear. And if I were him, I wouldn't bring the subject back up. However, if she comes back to him and says "Dad, I really don't enjoy playing softball, I think I'd like to quit." -I think he should consider it. I think he should mention that she's still going to have to be at the park the whole time because that's where the rest of the family will be, and given that, she might decide its more fun to remain part of the team than separate. Or, she might decide it's a great time to sit on the bench and practice for band. My caveat to that is if the girl with the injury can't come back to the team, and so vacations put the team too close to not having enough players, I would ask her to stay on the team. I wouldn't force her, but I'd say- I know you aren't enjoying this, and I'm sorry if you felt like you had to join. I know you want to quit, but I am going to ask you to stay on the team for the sake of the rest of the players. Jenny can't come back, and that means that the week Lisa's on vacation, if anyone else gets hurt or sick, we have to forfeit. Would you be willing to stay on the team for the rest of the season so that your sister and your friends don't have to forfeit any games?" If she is so miserable playing that she says she doesn't care if they have to forfeit, than you need to let her quit. Otherwise, from what little I know of Dark's girls, she's a good kid, and she won't want to let her friends down.
And next year, Dark, you and Loop should see if there's a junior Derby league around. I bet the girls would love that.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2012 19:40:09 GMT -5
Part of being a kid is learning and growing in a variety of ways and finding out who you really are and what you have a passion for. If you "make" kids always finish something that is miserable for them, they are also going to learn to not try new things because they are going to feel obligated to do it for the rest of their lives. There are lots of things i do for awhile. I try new things, when i get bored or want to move on, i do. As a result i have learned to play multiple instruments and have learned alot of things and done a lot of fun things. I i forced myself to continue everything i didn't like , what would be the point? Yes, there are absolutely things in life that are your obligations such as family, work and so forth. And, there are other things that are not. We are talking about a month. It is not going to hurt ANYONE to have the kid do it for a month. I wanted to quit summer jobs early. I've wanted to quit sports before the end of seaons,I wanted to quit band too when I had a horrible teacher. Everytime, my parents told me to stick it out. All of those things had a finite end point. I don't think many people knew I wanted to quit. I didn't show up with a bad attitude. I didn't try to get fired from my summer jobs. I still did them because that is what you do. I stuck out those last 2 weeks that summer at the county instead of sitting at home. I stuck the last month of the season. I learned that it didn't kill me to do that. That sometimes we do things we don't like. I certainly wasn't miserable and I didn't make everyone else miserable. If there is an end date in sight, then you have to stick it out. I would not stay at a full time job I was miserable at because there isn't an end date in sight. I did not stick out a class my senior year of high school that I absolutely hated because the end date was too far away. A month or two, stick it out. Longer than that, then think about the reasons. Well, if it is your child and that is what you choose, then do so. If it is my child and i choose differently, that is my choice as well.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2012 19:44:46 GMT -5
However, I said "IT DEPENDS" on the situation. If a kid goes out for something and wants to quit early on, the sooner he/she quits and moves on the better. My daughter had a band concert and a solo. On the night of the concert, she didn't want to go. She actually pretty much a full blown panic attack. She was fearful of doing her solo. I told her that is too bad and that she was indeed going to go and play because the band was counting on her. In that case, yes. In the case of Girl Scouts, she joined for fun. There are some nights she was tired and overscheduled an I didn't make her go. As i said, it really depends on the situation. But either way it is the choice and decision of the parents. I really don't see the point in getting bent out of shape either way. If someone quits, they quit, move on.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2012 19:49:39 GMT -5
Late to the discussion, but I let GW have one gimme on any bad practice. The second time I tell her no, that is not an acceptable habit or coping strategy. To quit one thing, let one batch of fruit go bad, do an assignment at the last minute and get a bad mark once...that is the gimme. Now you find another way to cope. GW is older than your DD Dark but I wish I had her at the younger age to teach these things.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2012 19:52:17 GMT -5
You are blooming late! ;D
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2012 19:58:47 GMT -5
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Jun 27, 2012 20:23:12 GMT -5
I Lena
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jun 27, 2012 22:56:19 GMT -5
So I talked to Lil Dark, and we're going to let her quit. She said she saw her sister play last year and it looked like fun so she signed up for the spring season. She didn't have very much fun that season, and didn't want to sign up for summer, but she thought we'd be disappointed if she didn't. So this one is my bad, and I'm giving her a pass. She's never quit any other activity she's signed up for so I'm OK with her dropping this. I had a long conversation with both my girls and explained that their activities are entirely for their own benefit. I'll enjoy watching piano recitals just as much I'll enjoy watching them play softball. I mention piano because she says she'd rather have those than play softball... I know... there's something wrong with my kid. She says the ball had nothing to do with it, although it hurt and she was embarrassed because she cried in front of her team. She played a double header the next day and had 5 or 6 at bats, so as far as I'm concerned she got back on the horse, and I believe her when she says this decision has more to do with not wanting to play in the first place. Anyway, that's decided. Feel free to keep arguing both sides though, or tell me I'm a giant softie that's going to raise an entitled welfare queen, or whatever you do on a thread after it's wrapped up.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Jun 27, 2012 23:04:56 GMT -5
The night is still young, it can become anything we want it to be (well, unless we get locked or deleted )
Lena
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jun 27, 2012 23:11:45 GMT -5
Hey, I'm down. I'll bring the whiskey and condoms!
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Jun 27, 2012 23:15:42 GMT -5
OMG, you just made me laugh out VERY loud. Thanks, MM
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jun 27, 2012 23:17:55 GMT -5
I dont think your hand is going to make any demands... Uh huh. I've seen you when you get around whiskey. Your bra is probably already off just from me mentioning it.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jun 27, 2012 23:24:09 GMT -5
Bra-less huh... at your age? Good for you. Most women wouldn't have the balls to go out with their boobs sagging down to their stomachs. Props.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jun 27, 2012 23:26:49 GMT -5
Picture or it didn't happen!!!
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jun 27, 2012 23:30:35 GMT -5
Crap, I was supposed to give you the whiskey before I tried that...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2012 5:18:27 GMT -5
So I talked to Lil Dark, and we're going to let her quit. She said she saw her sister play last year and it looked like fun so she signed up for the spring season. She didn't have very much fun that season, and didn't want to sign up for summer, but she thought we'd be disappointed if she didn't. So this one is my bad, and I'm giving her a pass. She's never quit any other activity she's signed up for so I'm OK with her dropping this. I had a long conversation with both my girls and explained that their activities are entirely for their own benefit. I'll enjoy watching piano recitals just as much I'll enjoy watching them play softball. I mention piano because she says she'd rather have those than play softball... I know... there's something wrong with my kid. She says the ball had nothing to do with it, although it hurt and she was embarrassed because she cried in front of her team. She played a double header the next day and had 5 or 6 at bats, so as far as I'm concerned she got back on the horse, and I believe her when she says this decision has more to do with not wanting to play in the first place. Anyway, that's decided. Feel free to keep arguing both sides though, or tell me I'm a giant softie that's going to raise an entitled welfare queen, or whatever you do on a thread after it's wrapped up. The nice thing about being a parent is that you don't have to justify your decisions for your child to other people. It is up to you to decide what is best for your children, not the opinions of others. If you think that your child can quit, let her quit. If not don't. I raise my kids as i please and whether if others don't like it, that is their problem, not mine@ !
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jun 28, 2012 10:49:15 GMT -5
Anyway, that's decided. Feel free to keep arguing both sides though, or tell me I'm a giant softie that's going to raise an entitled welfare queen, or whatever you do on a thread after it's wrapped up. Geez, how COULD you? It was only three more weeks, couldn't she have toughed it out?! Never mind, I see we've already moved on to booze and clumsy seduction scenes.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2012 10:51:58 GMT -5
It is Dark, after all.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2012 11:18:12 GMT -5
And good for you, Dark. But your girls are living in a house with a SAHM, each have their own bedroom, and they aren't paying any bills, so naturally they're doomed to be welfare queens.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jun 28, 2012 12:02:45 GMT -5
It was only three more weeks, couldn't she have toughed it out?! I'm sure she could have, and I did explain that since my wife and I are coaching and her sister is playing, she's going to be stuck at the fields quite a bit for those three weeks anyway. I'm not going to force her to do something she doesn't want to do, and never wanted to do in the first place except that she I thought she'd be disappointed if she didn't. Making her finish the season would be me reinforcing the idea that I really would have been disappointed with her if she didn't play. I'm saving my one you've got to do this because I said so and I'll disappointed if you don't for when it comes time to select a college major.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2012 12:05:47 GMT -5
I just assumed it was Dark.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jun 28, 2012 12:14:14 GMT -5
Hey.. who are you calling clumsy??? Dark, he forgot the roofies whiskey. Rookie mistake.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2012 13:23:16 GMT -5
Hey.. who are you calling clumsy??? Dark, he forgot the roofies whiskey. Rookie mistake. And here I always thought he was more of the chloroformUnisom type... fixed.
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