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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2012 15:53:36 GMT -5
But, as I said, there are some instances i would make them finish and some not. Just depends on the situation.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Jun 27, 2012 15:54:28 GMT -5
...:::"...but my parents basically said, "If you skip this lesson, you drop gymnastics." And that's what I did...":::...
I'd like to think that even parents learn some lessons, inadvertently, when what they think is a punishment turns out to be a reward. I know you didn't feel good about dropping, but its kind of funny when a parent gives a consequence, thinking it will whip the kid in the shape, but the kid is actually like "really?!?!? GREAT!".
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Jun 27, 2012 15:55:40 GMT -5
If the team is "counting" on someone whose heart really isn't in it, then how does that really benefit the team? Wouldn't the team be better served to have someone step down who doesn't want to do it and have someone step in who has a passion to play? Registration closed weeks ago. If she steps down we're short a person. There is no having somebody else step up. No. It might give an opportunity for someone else's kid to play who hasn't gotten much playing time. So, what is wrong with that? Nothing wrong with it except that most league rules don't allow it. You can't start mid season even as a replacement for some one else. It doesn't work that way.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2012 15:57:06 GMT -5
What are you talking about? In a team, the coach can put in whomever he wants too. I don't know what kind of sports you are referring too.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jun 27, 2012 15:57:40 GMT -5
Also ,this kind of thing happens all the time - one person "letting the team down". In my last semester of college, I had a class that was the last class for my degree - a project that was suppose to kind of bring the whole thing together - everything we learned, etc. Well, out of 4 people in my group, one "disappeared" 2 wks before our final presentation. We didn't get an extension. We weren't allowed any lenience. We had to complete the project. Shit happens, you deal with it and move on. If his/her parents had made them finish their t-ball season after they got hit with a ball and wanted to quit that person might not have learned to be a quitter and you wouldn't have been stuck carrying their weight in your final college class all those years later.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Jun 27, 2012 15:58:14 GMT -5
I suppose there is also some merit to the idea that kids are kids and have no clue what they might like or not. This is not a case of her wanting to bail after 3 days. She's given it a good run, and probably felt this way for a while. Letting her out of it is probably not going to turn her into an entitled spoiled princess who expects her way at a whim.
Nevertheless, don't let her out at this point. She can deal with it for 4 more weeks.
Borrowing from another thread, you could pay her for good batting and fielding.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Jun 27, 2012 15:59:18 GMT -5
And that's why I said - unless the team can't play without her. But even than - isn't it her decision? And isn't it also important to teach them all consequences of their actions? May be she'll loose a few friends bc of that. Or may be Dark will make her pay him back. Whatever. I just don't think forcing someone to finish something teaches them that much. Or forcing them to do anything, for that matter I could be wrong, I've been wrong before Lena
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Jun 27, 2012 15:59:56 GMT -5
Also ,this kind of thing happens all the time - one person "letting the team down". In my last semester of college, I had a class that was the last class for my degree - a project that was suppose to kind of bring the whole thing together - everything we learned, etc. Well, out of 4 people in my group, one "disappeared" 2 wks before our final presentation. We didn't get an extension. We weren't allowed any lenience. We had to complete the project. Shit happens, you deal with it and move on.
BUt did you fail because of it? Were you kicked out of the class because your team member disappeared? I get that it happens all the time in real life, but I feel very strongly that you finish what you start and that starts at a young age. We are talking less than a month. Is she really going to be miserable and tank it the rest of the season? Maybe but maybe not. I wanted to quit several things that my parents made me stick it out, but I still gave it my all even if I didn't want to be there.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Jun 27, 2012 16:00:09 GMT -5
...:::"If his/her parents had made them finish their t-ball season after they got hit with a ball and wanted to quit that person might not have learned to be a quitter and you wouldn't have been stuck carrying their weight in your final college class all those years later.":::...
Nothing worse than someone who doesn't finish what they sta
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2012 16:01:05 GMT -5
What sports has some "set in stone" starters that they cannot put in a replacement? Sorry, but my kids did not sign contracts to play tee ball or whatever. If i want to take them out of it or they want to quit and i want to permit it, it isn't anyone else's concern. The team will just have to "carry on". And, nobody is forever anywhere. There is always a lot of whining and gnashing of teeth when someone quits a job to move on to another one as if that is somehow "letting" people down. You do what works best for you, your family and your child.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2012 16:02:05 GMT -5
There is NO TEAM on the planet that "can't play" without one of its' members. What if that person got hurt, moved or whatever. Life goes on. Sheesh. Seems a bit melodramatic to me.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Jun 27, 2012 16:02:22 GMT -5
May be. Who would have thought I was pissed at the wrong person, I should have sued that jerk's parents or something I really do get it that kids need to understand the importance of finishing things up, ESPECIALLY when others rely on them, but I just don't think forcing them to do it is the way to go...
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jun 27, 2012 16:03:31 GMT -5
This whole conversation about letting the team down is kind of a side track anyway. There's a little bit of that, but mostly I'm more worried about her letting herself down. This is her first year playing. She's just getting to the point where she understands the game and is starting to improve. I don't want her quitting because she got hit by one wild pitch, after she's put some work into it and hasn't gotten a taste of the payoff yet.
I've been telling both of them over and over since they started sports, that's it's all about the focus and practice you put into it. Some people are more naturally athletic, but nobody is born a great short stop, home run hitter, pitcher, figure skater, swimmer, basket ball player, etc., etc. You focus, put in the work, get good coaching, and the results will come. I don't want her to quit right before she starts seeing the results. Especially since they don't come as naturally to her.
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Peace Of Mind
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Post by Peace Of Mind on Jun 27, 2012 16:03:44 GMT -5
I've told my boys at the beginning of each sports season before we sign up that they are making a commitment to the team in terms of being at every practice and at every game as well as to mom and dad in terms of the money being spent and the time commitments we are making (having to leave work early on occasion, getting them to and from practices and games, etc.) along with the understanding that school and homework along with behavior will not be allowed to slide either. Yeah but you do weird stuff like run and exercise and call that fun. Dark - Will she have to be there any way because you all will be there? If so, and it's only for a few more weeks, she might as well stay on. If the rest of her summer is going to suck because she has to do something she doesn't want to do... I say let the girl enjoy the rest of her summer.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Jun 27, 2012 16:04:03 GMT -5
What are you talking about? In a team, the coach can put in whomever he wants too. I don't know what kind of sports you are referring too. But you have to be on the team first. For example, summer softball when I was in elementary school. You had to register by a certain date. If you didn't, you didn't get to play period. That was the league rules. In high school, no coach would EVER allow a student to join midseason except maybe in a transfer situation, but I never actually saw that happen. If you weren't there the first week of practice, you aren't on the team. Period. I have never been a part of a team that it was 100% up to the coach's discretion who was on the team (never on a team that required tryouts - even my college track team) unless it was to kick some one off the team and even that in high school required the AD to sign off on it.
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Post by Firebird on Jun 27, 2012 16:05:46 GMT -5
I'd like to see her stick it out, because I think once she gets it she'll have a lot of fun, and if they're in the same sport it'll be a lot easier on Mom and Dad's taxi and cheer service.
I would let her stop playing. I get the whole "finish what you started" lesson, but the thing is - we don't always do that and I think it's much more important to make a kid understand the difference between what has to be finished and why and when it's ok to let it go too.
Ah, both really good points. And this reminds me of something that slightly influenced my opinion about this - the memoir Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mom. That woman made NO bones about forcing her kids to play piano and violin, practice for hours a day, and constantly perfect their skills. She was very open about not really caring what they wanted, and under the "Chinese mom" paradigm she was working with, the idea was that it would start BEING fun once they were GOOD at it, but they wouldn't get good at it without the practice that, being kids, they of course wouldn't choose to do.
And that viewpoint makes a ton of sense to me. Sometimes kids need a push to understand that if you don't work hard as hell at something, it's not going to be any fun for you.
But as to Lena's point, THAT is also a good life lesson. The art of nonfinishing. You know what, as adults there are plenty of things we start that aren't worth finishing. Hell, most of us even quit our careers at some point and start over in a new one, effectively "giving up on" the first one. I myself dropped out of college, and it was the best decision I ever made. I've had plenty of occasion to regret my habit of "forcing" myself to finish a book that sucked simply because I started it and I felt I should. Etc.
So I guess it comes down to what sort of life lesson your little girl needs to learn at this particular point in her life. Does she need to learn how to work hard at something until she's good at it, or does she need to learn that it's okay to quit something that isn't right for you? Both are necessary skills in adult life.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Jun 27, 2012 16:07:29 GMT -5
"Or may be Dark will make her pay him back."
That's what my Dad would have done if I insisted on quitting. He'd make me work and pay back all the money he spent to sign me up.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2012 16:07:30 GMT -5
What are you talking about? In a team, the coach can put in whomever he wants too. I don't know what kind of sports you are referring too. But you have to be on the team first. For example, summer softball when I was in elementary school. You had to register by a certain date. If you didn't, you didn't get to play period. That was the league rules. In high school, no coach would EVER allow a student to join midseason except maybe in a transfer situation, but I never actually saw that happen. If you weren't there the first week of practice, you aren't on the team. Period. I have never been a part of a team that it was 100% up to the coach's discretion who was on the team (never on a team that required tryouts - even my college track team) unless it was to kick some one off the team and even that in high school required the AD to sign off on it. I am NOT talking about joining Mid season. I am talking about letting the Bench Warmers who really want to play, finally get a chance to get in and play. The kids who sit, and sit and wait for their chance. Why play a kid that doesn't want to be there? Why stay and keep a position that could be given to someone else. If the team loses because my kid quits, oh well.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Jun 27, 2012 16:07:43 GMT -5
There is NO TEAM on the planet that "can't play" without one of its' members. What if that person got hurt, moved or whatever. Life goes on. Sheesh. Seems a bit melodramatic to me. Have you ever been in a forfeit situation because you only had 8 members show up to game for a softball game? That is what I'm talking about. I once played an intermural basketball 3 on 5 (we had the 3), because we wanted to play and they didn't make us forfeit (the officials wanted us to, but we declined; the other team still wanted to play 5 so we said bring it on). But they did make us forfeit some IM soccer games because we didn't have enough members.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2012 16:08:21 GMT -5
Yes. And, so? You can't force people to play. They aren't employees or under contract. That is life.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Jun 27, 2012 16:08:30 GMT -5
But you have to be on the team first. For example, summer softball when I was in elementary school. You had to register by a certain date. If you didn't, you didn't get to play period. That was the league rules. In high school, no coach would EVER allow a student to join midseason except maybe in a transfer situation, but I never actually saw that happen. If you weren't there the first week of practice, you aren't on the team. Period. I have never been a part of a team that it was 100% up to the coach's discretion who was on the team (never on a team that required tryouts - even my college track team) unless it was to kick some one off the team and even that in high school required the AD to sign off on it. I am NOT talking about joining Mid season. I am talking about letting the Bench Warmers who really want to play, finally get a chance to get in and play. The kids who sit, and sit and wait for their chance. Why play a kid that doesn't want to be there? Why stay and keep a position that could be given to someone else. If the team loses because my kid quits, oh well. I'm talking about not having enough members to play the game. Obviously we are talking about 2 different things.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2012 16:09:07 GMT -5
What kind of team doesn't have enough players? Every team my kids have been on have plenty of subs and Second string.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jun 27, 2012 16:11:44 GMT -5
Will she have to be there any way because you all will be there? Probably. The wife and I are coaching, and her sister is playing. Her choice is to either stay on the team and participate, or sit on the sidelines and watch. I don't think either of us would be comfortable leaving her home alone for 2-3 hours a night four days a week.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Jun 27, 2012 16:12:21 GMT -5
...:::"I myself dropped out of college, and it was the best decision I ever made.":::...
You mean you don't have a college degree, but you've been making SENSE all this time? I feel so cheated!
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Jun 27, 2012 16:12:23 GMT -5
What kind of team doesn't have enough players? Every team my kids have been on have plenty of subs and Second string. I've been on teams that don't have enough players. Sorry you have never seen it, but I have even as a kid. Nothing fun about getting all dressed up and ready to play and realize that because Becky, Jodie and Haley are on vacation, we don't have enough people to field a team today. And that was in elementary school.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Jun 27, 2012 16:13:40 GMT -5
...:::"Probably. The wife and I are coaching, and her sister is playing. Her choice is to either stay on the team and participate, or sit on the sidelines and watch. I don't think either of us would be comfortable leaving her home alone for 2-3 hours a night four days a week.":::...
Especially if she finds your stash.
OK seriously: what is your priority here? You could spin this ANY angle you want. You've got ample support for forcing her to play, or letting her off the hook.
What is it that you most want your daughter to learn as a result of this choice?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2012 16:14:20 GMT -5
Part of being a kid is learning and growing in a variety of ways and finding out who you really are and what you have a passion for. If you "make" kids always finish something that is miserable for them, they are also going to learn to not try new things because they are going to feel obligated to do it for the rest of their lives. There are lots of things i do for awhile. I try new things, when i get bored or want to move on, i do. As a result i have learned to play multiple instruments and have learned alot of things and done a lot of fun things. I i forced myself to continue everything i didn't like , what would be the point?
Yes, there are absolutely things in life that are your obligations such as family, work and so forth. And, there are other things that are not.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2012 16:14:30 GMT -5
But you have to be on the team first. For example, summer softball when I was in elementary school. You had to register by a certain date. If you didn't, you didn't get to play period. That was the league rules. In high school, no coach would EVER allow a student to join midseason except maybe in a transfer situation, but I never actually saw that happen. If you weren't there the first week of practice, you aren't on the team. Period. I have never been a part of a team that it was 100% up to the coach's discretion who was on the team (never on a team that required tryouts - even my college track team) unless it was to kick some one off the team and even that in high school required the AD to sign off on it. I am NOT talking about joining Mid season. I am talking about letting the Bench Warmers who really want to play, finally get a chance to get in and play. The kids who sit, and sit and wait for their chance. Why play a kid that doesn't want to be there? Why stay and keep a position that could be given to someone else. If the team loses because my kid quits, oh well. it's rec league softball, everybody is required to get time in the field at to get to bat. on the other hand, if they don't have enough players for a game, nobody gets to play because they forfeit.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jun 27, 2012 16:14:55 GMT -5
What kind of team doesn't have enough players? It's summer time. Kids are on vacation. We started with 15 girls, and we field 10. However, one dropped right after sign ups ended, before we'd even had our first practice. One is out for a week with a knee thing, and may or may not be back depending on how her knee is doing. Has some kind of genetic syndrome that nobody knew about until she played catcher for a few innings and aggravated it. So we're down to 3 "extras". Now you throw in summer vacations, and we've had at least one girl having to miss every game for family vacations or whatnot, 2 are out this week, and it starts getting tight.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Jun 27, 2012 16:15:38 GMT -5
...:::"Becky, Jodie and Haley are on vacation":::...
Becky... Jodie...Haley.... obviously they were at stripper camp. Is that where they learn to give a back story like "I'm actually a pre-school teacher, and I'm doing this to make extra money to buy my kids school supplies".
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