Malarky
Junior Associate
Truth and snark are equal opportunity here.
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 21:00:51 GMT -5
Posts: 5,313
|
Post by Malarky on Jun 24, 2012 20:06:22 GMT -5
I just read that. What the hell is wrong with some people?
|
|
Sam_2.0
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 15:42:45 GMT -5
Posts: 12,350
|
Post by Sam_2.0 on Jun 24, 2012 21:47:13 GMT -5
Sadly, criminals have the right to be treated better than this. Otherwise, I say do the same to her - lock her up in solitary confinement without access to food or bathroom facilities for 10 years. Only I would leave her a length of rope as well.
|
|
zibazinski
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 16:12:50 GMT -5
Posts: 47,861
|
Post by zibazinski on Jun 25, 2012 8:52:05 GMT -5
Want to get she gets the kid back? Plus, her other kids?
|
|
Firebird
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 29, 2010 12:55:06 GMT -5
Posts: 12,446
|
Post by Firebird on Jun 25, 2012 15:21:04 GMT -5
Want to get she gets the kid back? Plus, her other kids? That's the horrifying part. She might get her kids back eventually. That poor baby. Did it say anything about whether the physical damage was permanent?
|
|
973beachbum
Senior Associate
Politics Admin
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 16:12:13 GMT -5
Posts: 10,501
|
Post by 973beachbum on Jun 27, 2012 8:25:59 GMT -5
Want to get she gets the kid back? Plus, her other kids? That's the horrifying part. She might get her kids back eventually. That poor baby. Did it say anything about whether the physical damage was permanent? I don't know if anyone remembers the 3 boys from Camden NJ that were starved over years? Two of them live not that far from me now and they seem to have completely recovered physically at least. I know that healthy food is/can be expensive but rice or pasta isn't. How much food would it have taken for this girl not to have been this bad of shape? My guess is not very much.
|
|
ontrack
Familiar Member
Joined: Mar 21, 2011 9:44:36 GMT -5
Posts: 967
|
Post by ontrack on Jun 27, 2012 8:52:16 GMT -5
I don't understand these situations where the parent takes care of some kids, but totally neglects/abuses the other one. I don't know if anyone read "A Child Called It," but it was a very similar situation. Mom made one son do housework all the time, little food, no clean clothes, but his brothers were treated normally. I don't get it.
|
|
zibazinski
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 16:12:50 GMT -5
Posts: 47,861
|
Post by zibazinski on Jun 27, 2012 8:55:12 GMT -5
I do.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Mar 28, 2024 16:33:57 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2012 9:29:15 GMT -5
Want to get she gets the kid back? Plus, her other kids? That's the horrifying part. She might get her kids back eventually. That poor baby. Did it say anything about whether the physical damage was permanent? There has to be some long-term mental damage as well. I'm not talking about emotional wounds - that's a given... I'm referring to her mental abilities. Malnourishment affects all organs, including the brain. If this lady gets her kids back, I will have officially lost all hope for this country and how it treats child abuse.
|
|
Sam_2.0
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 15:42:45 GMT -5
Posts: 12,350
|
Post by Sam_2.0 on Jun 27, 2012 10:40:56 GMT -5
But don't you see, the mom didn't hurt the other kids. She shouldn't be deprived of her relationship with them just because she messed up with one kid. If she does not stay in jail, she will go through parenting classes and will probably get those kids back. Sad, sad, sad. OT - I am from KC, and one of the neighbors was SO PROUD to be interviewed on the news. If the case wasn't so sad, I would be laughing at her. She was dishing on everyone's business Glad she got her 15 minutes...
|
|
cronewitch
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 21:44:20 GMT -5
Posts: 5,974
|
Post by cronewitch on Jun 27, 2012 10:48:34 GMT -5
It is sometimes caused by scapegoating. One child is the cause of all the parental problems. Birth makes the parents, poor, unhappy, not finish school or other problems. The infant can cause the parents to divorce or single month to lose boyfriends. The child is the root of all evil in life. This is usually the first child then the future children are fine and loved.
When the bad child does something evil they need punished by not feeding or locking in a closet or attic until they learn their lesson. The child being evil wets themself or does other bad things so the punishment continues. Then the bad child is dirty, smelly, scrawny and still hasn't improved behavior. They aren't sent to school or allowed out because the parents know people would call it abuse when the evil child, devils spawn deserved to be locked up and starved.
I don't see how the momma's boyfriend or other children don't see it as abuse but the other kids have always lived that way with the evil sibling being punished.
|
|
Firebird
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 29, 2010 12:55:06 GMT -5
Posts: 12,446
|
Post by Firebird on Jun 27, 2012 11:25:34 GMT -5
The part that is absolutely moronically stupid about giving the "non-abused" kids back to the parent who abused the one kid is that without that one kid, the abusive parent will just pick ANOTHER kid to abuse of the ones s/he has left!!! How is this hard to understand? Abusers need someone to abuse. If their main victim gets taken away, they'll just find another one. This is the kind of thing that makes me bristle at the idea that having children is a constitutional right
|
|
973beachbum
Senior Associate
Politics Admin
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 16:12:13 GMT -5
Posts: 10,501
|
Post by 973beachbum on Jun 27, 2012 12:28:55 GMT -5
The part that is absolutely moronically stupid about giving the "non-abused" kids back to the parent who abused the one kid is that without that one kid, the abusive parent will just pick ANOTHER kid to abuse of the ones s/he has left!!! How is this hard to understand? Abusers need someone to abuse. If their main victim gets taken away, they'll just find another one. This is the kind of thing that makes me bristle at the idea that having children is a constitutional right the MSW's I know don't say it is because the parents have a right. they say it is done because there isn't any place else to put them anyway. If there were thousands of people asking to have foster children in their homes it might be a different discussion. Sadly Later's choice isn't the norm. Most areas have a REALLY hard time placing older childen in foster care. Most end up in the juve jail as if they committed a crime. As long as the parent didn't abuse them and the situation is monitered it probably is better for them than the only alternatives. Which would you rather live with? The home where you mother who never abused you was or the juve jail with a bunch of criminals?
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Mar 28, 2024 16:33:57 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2012 12:43:35 GMT -5
Firebird is right. My cousin was abused horribly by her stepmother. My cousin was the evil stepchild that just wouldn't listen/behave/embarrassed her, etc. When my cousin finally went back and lived with her mother after her dad died when she was 11(who also abused her and that is why she lived with her dad and not her mother), her stepmom then started abusing one of the other kids and that kid was her biological daughter.
|
|
973beachbum
Senior Associate
Politics Admin
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 16:12:13 GMT -5
Posts: 10,501
|
Post by 973beachbum on Jun 27, 2012 12:47:40 GMT -5
Firebird is right. My cousin was abused horribly by her stepmother. My cousin was the evil stepchild that just wouldn't listen/behave/embarrassed her, etc. When my cousin finally went back and lived with her mother after her dad died when she was 11(who also abused her and that is why she lived with her dad and not her mother), her stepmom then started abusing one of the other kids and that kid was her biological daughter. So where would you put them instead? I am not trying to be snarky with you I'm really not. ;D Around here the only other place is the juve jail.
|
|
movingforward
Junior Associate
Joined: Sept 15, 2011 12:48:31 GMT -5
Posts: 8,358
|
Post by movingforward on Jun 27, 2012 13:04:14 GMT -5
I would think living in a group home/orphanage would be better than being abused everyday
|
|
zibazinski
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 16:12:50 GMT -5
Posts: 47,861
|
Post by zibazinski on Jun 27, 2012 13:23:04 GMT -5
You'd think that but my GAL client ran away constantly from hers. Group home that is. Would rather live out of a motel room with her loser mom and sisters who aged out of foster care. Finally I got her into foster care in a home. A step up from mothers rathole and she stayed there.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Mar 28, 2024 16:33:57 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2012 13:53:05 GMT -5
I don't know where to put them. My cousin eventually went to a foster home and then to a group home, then she came and lived with my parents. She actually didn't mind the group home. It wasn't like a jail at all. It was in a big dorm style building. There were horses for the girls to ride, field trips they went on. A teacher came there to teach the girls.
Her stepmother died about a year or 2 after her dad did, and the other kids got to go live with their mother's sister and had much better lives. My cousin is still F'ed up to this day. My parents tried to help her, but by time they got her she had serious mental problems.
|
|
Golden Cavalier
Familiar Member
Bring it on!!
Joined: Sept 7, 2011 20:45:26 GMT -5
Posts: 862
|
Post by Golden Cavalier on Jun 27, 2012 14:03:08 GMT -5
I don't know if anyone read "A Child Called It," but it was a very similar situation. Mom made one son do housework all the time, little food, no clean clothes, but his brothers were treated normally. I don't get it. I read that book, Ontrack. It's a horrific story of abuse. It's amazing that Dave Pelzer came out on the other side of that abuse to have a career in the Air Force and become a motivational speaker. I just don't understand how anyone can hurt a child in any way, physically or emotionally. Medieval torture devices need to be brought back into vogue for those who do. A good old-fashioned disembowelment would not be out of line in situations like this.
|
|
Firebird
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 29, 2010 12:55:06 GMT -5
Posts: 12,446
|
Post by Firebird on Jun 27, 2012 14:04:31 GMT -5
I would think living in a group home/orphanage would be better than being abused everyday
I personally think the orphanage model has some merits - obviously, not to the point where kids are sleeping on top of one another, running wild, being neglected etc. but basically humongous homes where foster parents run things in shifts and make sure that all the kids get the attention they need. Like what Imanangel described.
Not that there aren't problems with that too. There IS no perfect answer to "where do we put the kids whose parents suck at life?" Which brings me back to WHY DO WE ALLOW EVERYONE TO REPRODUCE WHEN SOME PEOPLE HAVE CLEARLY FORFEITED THEIR RIGHT TO DO SO?!?
I'm not talking about "you're retarded so you never get to have children." I'm talking about "you're a crack whore who has pumped out four kids already, they've all been taken away for abuse/neglect, you don't get to have any more chances."
|
|
Firebird
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 29, 2010 12:55:06 GMT -5
Posts: 12,446
|
Post by Firebird on Jun 27, 2012 14:08:06 GMT -5
I read that book, Ontrack. It's a horrific story of abuse. It's amazing that Dave Pelzer came out on the other side of that abuse to have a career in the Air Force and become a motivational speaker.
If you haven't yet, you should read the sequels. Dave's story is quite remarkable; I think he does a good job highlighting both the strengths and the pitfalls of the foster care system. He wised up at an early age and figured out that once he turned 18 there would be no more safety net, so he worked like a dog and then joined the armed forces so he could provide for himself. But he recognized that a lot of his peers had no such plan in place, and worried deeply about what would happen to them eventually.
He ended up marrying a nice girl and having a kid of his own (not in that order). He's a pretty amazing dude.
|
|
Golden Cavalier
Familiar Member
Bring it on!!
Joined: Sept 7, 2011 20:45:26 GMT -5
Posts: 862
|
Post by Golden Cavalier on Jun 27, 2012 14:08:33 GMT -5
|
|
cronewitch
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 21:44:20 GMT -5
Posts: 5,974
|
Post by cronewitch on Jun 27, 2012 14:25:04 GMT -5
Put the abusers in prison then the children with relatives if available or in group homes with others like them not in jails. The children who saw abuse but weren't abused need mental health care too so they don't think abuse is normal. Orphanages for kids too old to be wanted by Foster parents would be still better than families like that they could be run like boarding schools.
|
|
taz157
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 20:50:06 GMT -5
Posts: 12,823
|
Post by taz157 on Jun 27, 2012 16:04:53 GMT -5
Not that there aren't problems with that too. There IS no perfect answer to "where do we put the kids whose parents suck at life?" Which brings me back to WHY DO WE ALLOW EVERYONE TO REPRODUCE WHEN SOME PEOPLE HAVE CLEARLY FORFEITED THEIR RIGHT TO DO SO?!? I'm not talking about "you're retarded so you never get to have children." I'm talking about "you're a crack whore who has pumped out four kids already, they've all been taken away for abuse/neglect, you don't get to have any more chances."
|
|
973beachbum
Senior Associate
Politics Admin
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 16:12:13 GMT -5
Posts: 10,501
|
Post by 973beachbum on Jun 27, 2012 16:40:30 GMT -5
I don't know where to put them. My cousin eventually went to a foster home and then to a group home, then she came and lived with my parents. She actually didn't mind the group home. It wasn't like a jail at all. It was in a big dorm style building. There were horses for the girls to ride, field trips they went on. A teacher came there to teach the girls. Her stepmother died about a year or 2 after her dad did, and the other kids got to go live with their mother's sister and had much better lives. My cousin is still F'ed up to this day. My parents tried to help her, but by time they got her she had serious mental problems. That doesn't sound bad. I am pretty sure there is nothing like that in NJ for foster kids though. I knew two kids who lived in the juve jail growing up. Their parents died and their relatives didn't want them to live with them. In one case the relative was a sister who inherited the parents house and life insurance but didn't want her 14 year old sister. The only place for the county to house a teen minor was the county juvenile jail. It was just big rooms with maybe 40 cots lined up. The windows had bars on them and the doors all locked from the outside. And if that bad enough she got locked in with kids who had committed crimes like rape and attempted murder.
|
|
movingforward
Junior Associate
Joined: Sept 15, 2011 12:48:31 GMT -5
Posts: 8,358
|
Post by movingforward on Jun 27, 2012 16:50:59 GMT -5
The really bad thing is that some of the foster parents are no better than biological parents. Kids leave one abusive home just to be sent to another. The child just keeps getting more and more screwed up until they are so far gone no one can seem to help them. By the time they are placed in a good home the family can't handle them. I knew a nice foster family who had a 6 yr old placed with them. This little girl had been severely physically abused by her biological mother and then sexually abused in a foster home by the time this nice loving foster family got her they couldn't handle her. After one week she set their cat on fire
|
|
973beachbum
Senior Associate
Politics Admin
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 16:12:13 GMT -5
Posts: 10,501
|
Post by 973beachbum on Jun 27, 2012 17:02:00 GMT -5
I knew one women who had a bunch of foster kids she took in. She had an old Victorian house with maybe 15 rooms. I can't remember how many kids she had but I know it was more than ten. the youngest were in middle school the oldest was 17. Once they hit 18 the state would no longer pay for their R&B so they had to leave.
They had a stable home. She didn't do much for them, which is why she wanted older kids. She always had food in the house. It might not have been healthy or cooked by her but there was always something they could eat. Lastly there was no abuse. If a kid started fighting with another kid she removed them and got another kid placed there.
It was a safe house and the kids had the opportunity to go to school in town. It was more like a bunch of middle/HS schoolers playing at being grownups. There was no real adult supervision and she didn't do anything for them but provide the place to sleep and food. If they wanted a new pair of shoes they could either bum it off someone or get a job.
They all said it was the best place they ever lived.
|
|
973beachbum
Senior Associate
Politics Admin
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 16:12:13 GMT -5
Posts: 10,501
|
Post by 973beachbum on Jun 27, 2012 17:41:48 GMT -5
While I agree that it is stupid we don't "pay them to have more kids".
|
|
zibazinski
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 16:12:50 GMT -5
Posts: 47,861
|
Post by zibazinski on Jun 27, 2012 17:56:40 GMT -5
Sure we do. Is called welfare.
|
|
Firebird
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 29, 2010 12:55:06 GMT -5
Posts: 12,446
|
Post by Firebird on Jun 27, 2012 18:01:06 GMT -5
Sure we do. Is called welfare. You can easily make a case that having more children is a good money making scheme. At least in this country.
|
|
973beachbum
Senior Associate
Politics Admin
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 16:12:13 GMT -5
Posts: 10,501
|
Post by 973beachbum on Jun 27, 2012 19:06:58 GMT -5
Sure we do. Is called welfare. You can easily make a case that having more children is a good money making scheme. At least in this country. Those laws were changed under Pres Clinton so maybe 15-20 years ago. welfare payments are frozen once someone is on it for the number of dependants. They might get more food stamps to feed them but they are not going to get any more dollars each month for havent a second child while on welfare. I think no matter how many people in the family the most cash someone can get in NJ is about $400 a month. I know they get FS also but seriously it isn't like that would go very far to begin with.
|
|