Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jun 21, 2012 15:43:37 GMT -5
Just wait till they are in HS and you are picking candy wrappers out of the laundry basket or coke bottles out of their waste basket. If all they get into in high school is soda and candy I won't care if they stuff themselves silly and gain thirty pounds. It's far better than finding condom wrappers, sandwich bags that wreak of pot, and whatnot.
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quotequeen
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Post by quotequeen on Jun 21, 2012 15:45:47 GMT -5
What if you framed it in terms of how many hours you have to work for a particular thing? If you say, "do you realize I have to work 3 hours to take home enough money to pay for that sushi dinner" or whatever it is, it might be more meaningful. I used to do that, but it backfired on me. It would go something like this: Daughters, "Can we get sushi tonight?" Me, "Do you know how many hours I have to spend at work missing time with you (always pile on the parental guilt, always) to pay for one sushi dinner?" Daughters, "Like, one or two hours, and you get to spend time with us at dinner." Me, *crap they got me on that second point* "That's right about two hours, until the government (gotta shift blame somewhere and get them off the time angle) takes taxes out of my paycheck, and my company takes money out to pay for health care, and I save some for retirement so I won't have to live with you guys when I'm old and wearing diapers..." Daughters, "So like two hours, big deal, and quit deflecting." Me, *damn they're getting good, I gotta argue with them less* "Two hours is a pretty long time for one dinner" Daughters, "No it's not." Me, *ha you fools you fell into my trap* "Alright then, let's make a deal. You guys do two hours of labor for me, and we'll go to sushi. You start doing jumping jacks, I'll set a timer for two hours, and if you're still going in 120 minutes we'll go out to dinner." Daughters, "You don't do labor. You get paid to play on a computer all day." Me, "I've told you before, I don't play on a computer all day, I'm doing work on a computer all day." Daughters, "Fine, we'll go do "work" (they do it with the obnoxious finger quotes) on the computer for two hours, then you can take us to dinner." Me, "Sorry kiddos, you gotta go to Stanford and get edumacated before you're valuable enough to be paid for "working" on the computer. Right now you're unskilled labor and I should be paying you $10/hour to do yard work." Etc. Etc. It's a nightmare I tell you. Well then they'll definitely argue with you about what there's room for in the budget. Honestly, if your kids are as smart as you make them out to be, you probably don't need to worry about it too much. They'll figure it out.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Jun 21, 2012 15:46:23 GMT -5
As far as how to give your kids more "responsibilities" or adult understanding about things like spending money on things I have always subscribed to the "boiling a frog" philosophy. I just keep little by little take away things that we pay for or things that I do for them. In regards to money my Dd started doing things like mow lawns for money at about 12. She would make say $20 a week. At that point she was expected to buy things for herself out of her money. so instead of the discussion being about do "I" want to pay for sushi that night. I would ask her if it was worth it to her for her to pay for it out of her money for herself. Most times she would say no.
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kindthatjingles
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Post by kindthatjingles on Jun 21, 2012 15:46:33 GMT -5
My parents old us Zip about the finances.
I use the envelope system and both my boys are aware of the envelopes and if there is no money inside we don't fo anything in the category. They don't know my fixed budget utilities etc, but they know there is onyl 20 bucks inthe fun envelope so we have to choose wisely. Like we have to go to the pool or the park if we want to go to a movie etc to make sure we have enough money.
It has gotten tot he point he looks in the envelope before he asks.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jun 21, 2012 15:47:22 GMT -5
I'm still trying to get past the fact that your kids like sushi What kid wouldn't? It's got all the flavors kids like, rice, bland, salt if they dunk it in soy sauce, and hot if they put some wasabi in the soy sauce. The texture thing can be an issue with some things, but flavor wise sushi isn't that far out there.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Jun 21, 2012 15:48:32 GMT -5
Just wait till they are in HS and you are picking candy wrappers out of the laundry basket or coke bottles out of their waste basket. If all they get into in high school is soda and candy I won't care if they stuff themselves silly and gain thirty pounds. It's far better than finding condom wrappers, sandwich bags that wreak of pot, and whatnot. I know I should be happy that so far it is just the candy, coke and french fries that have caused her to gain weight, but it still isn't easy talking to a teenage daughter about weight. But I also know that she is only halfway through HS so I have two more years for it to get much worse fast.
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Jun 21, 2012 15:50:38 GMT -5
We don't give DS specifics about exactly how much we make because lets face it kids have big mouths. But we started doing a lot of comparisons for him and by now he is getting pretty reasonable and understands life more.
We love sushi too. Here a meal for the three of us would run about $50. A tank of gas for my SUV runs me about $60. So I show him- see we can have one sushi dinner and be hungry again at breakfast time or buy enough gas for the entire week? That video game you want costs roughly the same amount as our groceries for the week.
He does get an allowance and gets paid for helping out at work and babysitting. He saves a good bit of it and spends the rest on his video games and various fees for his game servers.
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justme
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Post by justme on Jun 21, 2012 15:52:01 GMT -5
I think I like the idea of "handing over" the food budget. It's a finite amount, so they wouldn't get to see the left over amount if you showed the full budget, and it could "benefit" them if they help plan meals and budget right so there's money for sushi. Just figure out some ground rules or something so they don't have you eating chicken in rice every day just so they can get sushi on the weekend.
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quotequeen
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Post by quotequeen on Jun 21, 2012 15:52:26 GMT -5
Or you could try "I have to save that money for retirement so you don't get stuck supporting me in my old age."
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Jun 21, 2012 15:53:18 GMT -5
For the record- The Boy LOVES sushi. He loves all things spicy though so he is a big fan of wasabi and all that jazz. He is the kid that would order the turkey dinner with steamed veggies at Perkins over the corn dog with french fries.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jun 21, 2012 15:56:02 GMT -5
I think you should give up now, clearly your kids are smarter than you. Dark, I really hope my kids turn out similar to yours, when they're those ages. Your kids sound like a lot of fun. And lets be honest - potty training is just NOT a fun time...
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Formerly SK
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Post by Formerly SK on Jun 21, 2012 16:00:06 GMT -5
My kids are younger so I don't have experience with this yet, but I can't imagine telling our exact budget to them. They just wouldn't have the maturity to handle it.
I think you should separate out the issues of "teaching money" vs your parenting/lifestyle choices. An allowance is good for teaching them delayed gratification and concepts like savings, getting a good value, etc.
Things like them wanting to go out to eat - I'm pretty authoritarian so I would never debate that stuff with them. But, maybe a general "This month we can eat 4x at Burger King, 2x at Red Robin or 1x at sushi - you choose" would give them parameters about your budget and concepts about choice without specific numbers.
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Peace Of Mind
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Post by Peace Of Mind on Jun 21, 2012 16:02:33 GMT -5
What if you framed it in terms of how many hours you have to work for a particular thing? If you say, "do you realize I have to work 3 hours to take home enough money to pay for that sushi dinner" or whatever it is, it might be more meaningful. I used to do that, but it backfired on me. It would go something like this: Daughters, "Can we get sushi tonight?" Me, "Do you know how many hours I have to spend at work missing time with you (always pile on the parental guilt, always) to pay for one sushi dinner?" Daughters, "Like, one or two hours, and you get to spend time with us at dinner." Me, *crap they got me on that second point* "That's right about two hours, until the government (gotta shift blame somewhere and get them off the time angle) takes taxes out of my paycheck, and my company takes money out to pay for health care, and I save some for retirement so I won't have to live with you guys when I'm old and wearing diapers..." Daughters, "So like two hours, big deal, and quit deflecting." Me, *damn they're getting good, I gotta argue with them less* "Two hours is a pretty long time for one dinner" Daughters, "No it's not." Me, *ha you fools you fell into my trap* "Alright then, let's make a deal. You guys do two hours of labor for me, and we'll go to sushi. You start doing jumping jacks, I'll set a timer for two hours, and if you're still going in 120 minutes we'll go out to dinner." Daughters, "You don't do labor. You get paid to play on a computer all day." Me, "I've told you before, I don't play on a computer all day, I'm doing work on a computer all day." Daughters, "Fine, we'll go do "work" (they do it with the obnoxious finger quotes) on the computer for two hours, then you can take us to dinner." Me, "Sorry kiddos, you gotta go to Stanford and get edumacated before you're valuable enough to be paid for "working" on the computer. Right now you're unskilled labor and I should be paying you $10/hour to do yard work." Etc. Etc. It's a nightmare I tell you. Well then they'll definitely argue with you about what there's room for in the budget. Honestly, if your kids are as smart as you make them out to be, you probably don't need to worry about it too much. They'll figure it out. Not only that but they should have started their own businesses by now and can pay for their own sushi and vacations!
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Jun 21, 2012 16:03:44 GMT -5
My kids are younger so I don't have experience with this yet, but I can't imagine telling our exact budget to them. They just wouldn't have the maturity to handle it. I think you should separate out the issues of "teaching money" vs your parenting/lifestyle choices. An allowance is good for teaching them delayed gratification and concepts like savings, getting a good value, etc. Things like them wanting to go out to eat - I'm pretty authoritarian so I would never debate that stuff with them. But, maybe a general " This month we can eat 4x at Burger King, 2x at Red Robin or 1x at sushi - you choose" would give them parameters about your budget and concepts about choice without specific numbers. I do this a lot. It normally is more like we can go out to dinner tonight or we can go to the movies this weekend but not both you choose. With my son the movies would win almost every time. With my daughter it would be the dinner. So now I have to remember to rotate who I let choose. Because she is older and more out spoken I end up talking to her more often so it is actualy easy to forget him.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jun 21, 2012 16:05:03 GMT -5
I know I should be happy that so far it is just the candy, coke and french fries that have caused her to gain weight, but it still isn't easy talking to a teenage daughter about weight. I can only imagine. I remember when my older daughter came home from a doctors appointment in tears. She was crushed because they weighed her and she was over 100 pounds. She's pretty tall for her age, so I think she was somewhere around 4'10" at the time. She does tend to pudge up a bit before a growth spurt, but we weren't all that worried about her weight. To her being in the triple digits made her a fat kid, and it didn't matter that she's like a head taller than most everyone else in her class. It totally sucked. I'm not even sure where she got the weight complex from. I swear girls are just born with it. Or they all infect each other with it in elementary school, like some kind of freaky hive mind thing. We've never worried about her weight, tried to manage it, or anything at home. She was a stick for a long time, then started going through cycles where she'll pudge up a bit, then tack on several inches over a few months and grow into it. Her pediatrician always said it was normal.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jun 21, 2012 16:09:58 GMT -5
Not only that but they should have started their own businesses by now and can pay for their own sushi and vacations! You clearly aren't a customer of 2 Girls and a Leash. It's the best neighborhood dog walking business run by two pre-teens that I've ever patronized.
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Peace Of Mind
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Post by Peace Of Mind on Jun 21, 2012 16:11:38 GMT -5
Dark, That is adorable! Who thought of that name? You really don't need to worry about retirement with those two. I'm just sayin'.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jun 21, 2012 16:12:30 GMT -5
My kids are screwed.
Kid: "Mom, can we go out for dinner?"
Me: "Yup - let me just throw out what I have defrosted for dinner, while you get your shoes."
Done.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jun 21, 2012 16:17:04 GMT -5
Who thought of that name? Me. The business idea was all them though. It started with just our immediate neighbor who has two older labs. The kids had been begging us for a dog for a while, and we still hadn't caved yet, so they loved playing with the neighbor's dogs. After a bit she started paying the girls to walk them in the afternoon. Then her good friend, who lives like two houses down, offered to do the same. The girls decided that if they could get everyone in the neighborhood to start handing them money they'd be rich!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2012 16:21:04 GMT -5
Can you have the budget talk with partial information?
This is how much money we have for the month to feed our family... (They don't need to know how much of the rest goes to retirement or mortgage or vacations or cigarettes at this pint)
We have to feed 4 people for 3 meals per day for 30 days for $X. The ingredients for sloppy joes we eat at home cost $y. Going out for sushi costs $y+z. Set the parameters on your example so that sushi is viewed as an occasional treat rather than weekly staple. Use less algebra... you get the idea.
Or, run the full budget example with their future income. So you want to be an actress. The typical income for an actress is $10 per hour waiting tables + some negligible amount of money for actually acting. Then run the bills for their preferred lifestyle against that, rather than your chosen profession and your preferred lifestyle. We'll get them into a YM-approved engineering program yet!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2012 16:31:38 GMT -5
My kids are screwed. Kid: "Mom, can we go out for dinner?" Me: "Yup - let me just throw out what I have defrosted for dinner, while you get your shoes." Done. Yup - you're raising future welfare recipients, alright.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jun 21, 2012 16:32:47 GMT -5
They do love crab legs.
Maybe I'll die young and leave them a nice inheritence.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Jun 21, 2012 16:38:39 GMT -5
I'm still trying to get past the fact that your kids like sushi What kid wouldn't? It's got all the flavors kids like, rice, bland, salt if they dunk it in soy sauce, and hot if they put some wasabi in the soy sauce. The texture thing can be an issue with some things, but flavor wise sushi isn't that far out there. Well, I am simple folk. We didn't have any of the fancy stuff when I was kid For the record I'll still take a pizza over sushi any day. I am skinny - leave me alone
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jun 21, 2012 16:43:03 GMT -5
Well, I am simple folk. We didn't have any of the fancy stuff when I was kid I hear ya. As a kid I could tell you what government cheese tasted like, but I never had sushi, thai, korean, japanese, etc., etc. until I was an adult. We ate simple american food, like tacos, enchiladas, chimichangas, etc.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jun 21, 2012 16:49:57 GMT -5
A few weeks ago we put out a platter of cheese. I had bought some blue cheese (the good kind) and a Camembert, and some fancy crackers. And then I put out Ritz crackers and cheddar. I'll be damned - my kids snarfed that expensive stuff. Yo' - that's what the generic cheddar is for - hands off the good stuff!
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Jun 21, 2012 16:56:53 GMT -5
You can teach them the value of money without necessarily correlating it to what YOU earn. I agree that they will be mesmerized by what seems like a large income.
What is important is teaching them the value of money in relation to their own earning power. Being able to express the "cost" of an item in terms of how much work you have to do for it is probably one of the most important financial contexts one can learn. It may also motivate them to increase their earning power by looking for ways to get more money faster.
Its quite sobering to realize that at $5/week, you could take the family for sushi sometime around Thanksgiving!
I know my Dad was quite pleased when I was working, and got a real perspective on wages and working hours. I always knew we "had money", and intellectually I could understand the math. But its the empathy that drives it home. When your weekly take home would not even cover a day's worth of mortgage, you get empathy really quickly.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Jun 21, 2012 17:11:37 GMT -5
A few weeks ago we put out a platter of cheese. I had bought some blue cheese (the good kind) and a Camembert, and some fancy saltines. And then I put out Ritz saltines and cheddar. I'll be damned - my kids snarfed that expensive stuff. Yo' - that's what the generic cheddar is for - hands off the good stuff! My kids love the good stuff too. They like to gou out to dinner in China Town in Phila. And they are not shy about trying strange things either. I actually remember the first time we went for Chinese food as a kid and the first time someone brought home a bagel.
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susanb
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Post by susanb on Jun 21, 2012 17:23:19 GMT -5
My parents gave me an allowance, and it really did help me with money, but there were two key points.
1. They tied effort to reward by making me earn it - I had to fold clothes and work in the garden for two hours a week. 2. I had to put 20% towards college savings, 10% towards a long term goal and 10% to charity. Same distribution for all money gifts. I had two separate savings accounts. The college money was a couple thousand by the time I needed it. It took me a year and a half to spend it on books, gas and supplies, but over ten years to save it. Great lesson.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2012 18:38:07 GMT -5
My parents were private people when it came to money- they never told us what Dad made, what the mortgage payment was, etc. and I followed their example with DS. You can raise fiscally responsible kids without sharing numbers. As an earlier poster mentioned, those numbers could make their way around the whole school.
In our case, it was a consistent message: we (parents) are in charge, the bills will be paid, there's a budget for fun stuff but it's not infinite so we have to make choices and tradeooffs. Sometimes concrete examples will help- show them the price of a steak at the grocery store and compare it to the cost of a restaurant meal, pointing out that the service and the ambience aren't free. DS once asked why we didn't fly First Class to visit my parents in Mytrle Beach- I explained that the cost differential, then about $1,000, was what we'd just spent on a wonderful trip to Montreal, including airfare. That was the last time he asked about flying First Class.
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lazysundays
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Post by lazysundays on Jun 21, 2012 19:19:05 GMT -5
There was a Cosby episode where he says imagine you are an adult making your own money, and hand him a whole bunch of cash. And then he starts asking questions and took a bill out of the boy's hand with each yes: do you live in your own place?do you have a car? do you like to go out ? Do you eat out often? And with the final question the rest of the reasonable pile of money in the son's hand disappears: do you have a girlfriend? It was cute. But in reality I've heard that a fake budget should be created using monopoly game money. No need for the kids to know your personal financial numbers.
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