Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Jun 4, 2012 12:51:03 GMT -5
Well, I don't think my younger sister and I had very different expectations placed on us. We were both expected to do our best in school and we were both expected to behave and obey the law. She ended up doing more extra curriculars and had (slightly) better grades than I did, but in the end we pretty much ended up in the same place. We both are fiscially responsible, have good jobs, finished college, and live on our own.
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emma1420
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Post by emma1420 on Jun 4, 2012 12:52:14 GMT -5
I am the oldest. I have one younger brother, and three younger step-sibilings. And it's like night and day. I am the responsible one. The one expected to do well in school, to be self-sufficient, and to make sensible decisions. I was expected to pay for my own college education, and if I wanted to come home during the summers I was expected to pay rent (I never did so that wasn't an issue).
Basically, the expectations for me were always much higher than for any of my siblings. But, in the end I think that worked out the best for me. All my siblings (aside from the youngest who is still in school) are in dead end jobs. One of them doesn't have a degree at all despite repeated attempts, and the other two have degrees in the equivalent of underwater basket weaving, so they are pretty useless. I am the only one who is financially independent. I am the only one who has an advanced degree and an actual career, and until a couple months ago I was the only one who was a home owner (and I have been for almost a decade). So I'm thinking that it worked out the best for me.
Although I do think my youngest step-sibling is going to do well. She seems far more on top of it. So I'm not sure if it's birth order, parental expectations, or just natural inclination.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Jun 4, 2012 13:08:46 GMT -5
"Not everyone marries young and has kids young. And frankly, I don't think being a homeowner defines adulthood as that is insulting to the many many 30/40/50 year olds who choose to rent." Absolutely! Being married nor owning a home indicates adulthood. Anyone can get married, lots of people get married when they aren't really ready for it. And one could argue that being single is more "adult" since you don't have anyone else to rely on. The same goes for home ownership, renting makes sense for a lot of adults, I don't consider anyone who rents (including myself) less of an "adult" for renting. Buying something in this down market when you plan to move to advance your career in a few years is stupid, and making stupid decisions is not very "adult."
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2012 13:14:54 GMT -5
I think being an "adult" means being fully responsible for (at least) yourself and your actions.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jun 4, 2012 13:18:15 GMT -5
I'm the 3rd of 5. There's a 16 year gap between the oldest and the youngest. My parents freely admit that the older ones were guinea pigs while they figured out parenting. By the time they got to my younger brother, they'd figured out a method of sorts. Plus my brother had the joy of having 4 older siblings and 2 ILs boss him around. ;D He didn't get away with much because SOMEBODY knew/saw/heard something. However, he didn't get the same set of consequences as the older ones did when he got busted. My parents paid for his CC degree, the rest of us were always told we were on our own for college. But situations change.
He still lives at home, at 30. He knows he's likely going to be the one stuck dealing with elderly parents. Dad's had a stroke and a heart issue in the last 2 years so in a lot of ways, it's a relief to have him still home. The rest of us see the parents on a more or less weekly basis though. He pays for his own stuff and kicks in on the grocery bill. He's working a decent job w/ benefits in his chosen field. And he's got people to hang out with. Is this a match made in heaven. No. But it's working for them.
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Formerly SK
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Post by Formerly SK on Jun 4, 2012 13:32:15 GMT -5
Kinda funny....I was having dinner with a friend who has an idiot for a younger brother. In and out of jail, a couple BKs, a couple DUIs, has a girlfriend preggo and is mooching off parents. You get the picture. Anyway, my friend is ALWAYS ranting about his younger brother and the help he gets and how the parents keep coddling him and not making him face the consequences of his decisions.
The very next conversation was about how my friend is underwater on his condo and his parents are going to give him 25K so he can refi from 6% to 4%. Now, my friend is relatively responsible etc and is eons ahead of his younger brother, but I couldn't help but laugh to myself that he views parental assistance so differently in his own case vs his brother's. ;D
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Don Perignon
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Post by Don Perignon on Jun 4, 2012 13:33:07 GMT -5
If one of their kids turns out to be a self-important little prig dedicated to instigating conflict and angst and belittling and abusing those they view as their inferiors... what sane parent would welcome that child back into their home in adulthood? I have a brother-in-law of that type... while his parents are pleased when he visits, they're even happier to see him depart. His departures are always accompanied by a sigh of relief. Their youngest daughter, however, has repeatedly needed their assistance (with divorcing an immature husband and with raising her two kids)... and, even so, they'd always let her move into their home if she needed to. Because she's NOT a money-obsessed, irritating little troublemaker with a terribly inflated perception of herself...
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skubikky
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Post by skubikky on Jun 4, 2012 13:48:24 GMT -5
If one of their kids turns out to be a self-important little prig dedicated to instigating conflict and angst and belittling and abusing those they view as their inferiors... what sane parent would welcome that child back into their home in adulthood? I have a brother-in-law of that type... while his parents are pleased when he visits, they're even happier to see him depart. His departures are always accompanied by a sigh of relief. Their youngest daughter, however, has repeatedly needed their assistance (with divorcing an immature husband and with raising her two kids)... and, even so, they'd always let her move into their home if she needed to. Because she's NOT a money-obsessed, irritating little troublemaker with a terribly inflated perception of herself... Yes to that.....success is measured in different ways. The one thing that people most remember about someone is how they made them feel.
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jeffreymo
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Post by jeffreymo on Jun 4, 2012 14:02:00 GMT -5
I'm the oldest in my family, and it took me a little while to learn life. Middle two siblings are financial and social trainwrecks. Youngest sibling was coddled, but had advice (both good and bad) from all of us. He managed his finances very well, understands the value of hard work and is a great saver. He's not the best at handling the day to day things that adulthood brings, because my folks somewhat encouraged him to live in their house until mid 20's which is a big reason why he's ahead of me financially.
My wife is the middle of 3 children and has a chip on her shoulder. She's seen her younger and older siblings handled differently, and thinks her parents show favoritism. I've never seen someone so driven. I think a big part of her success can be attributed to her birth order/the way her parents handled their kids.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2012 14:23:49 GMT -5
I think one's parents' stage in life influences how you turn out as well. Even in the same household kids can have really different upbringings depending on financial changes, age of parents, if the parents divorce, etc. I'm an older and more responsible than my brother. DH is a younger and more responsible than his older brother. No one would have predicted that a decade ago.
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Peace Of Mind
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Post by Peace Of Mind on Jun 4, 2012 14:31:08 GMT -5
I'm the oldest of my family and the middle of the yours/mine/ours family. 4 older step kids (than me) and two younger brothers (blood). I'm a mix of both Type A and peacemaker (really referee to be honest) between the two younger boys. The middle of us 3 is very greedy and hateful but doesn't realize it. He thinks he is a sweetheart. But financially he is stable. The youngest half brother is sweet but very financially unstable and probably always will be. We have some similarities in traits but really none of us are alike nor do we look alike. Hmmmm. What's funny is my step dad appointed my husband at the time (now my ex) as the executor of his will (if mom was also deceased or didn't want to do it). Mom told me it was really me too but that way the other 6 kids wouldn't get jealous. So I think it was just always expected of me to be the adult to the 4 boys for as long as I can remember. The two older step sisters were long gone and pretty much ostracized. I always had to be the babysitter when our parents went out of town and it was the 5 of us. I kind of resented the fact that I was responsible for the 2 older kids but mom didn't trust them. I was also made the executor/personal rep. of mom's will and my middle brother (of her 3 kids) is just furious to the point we won't ever be close he is so ugly. I've never really liked him to be honest but I will do my job in the fairest and legal way possible according to mom's wishes. Would it be immature if I say neener, neener!! to him when I write the final checks?
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Jun 4, 2012 15:12:17 GMT -5
I can see how it would get irritated to hear the whining and blaming of the economy when the person whining isn't blameless. I'd be especially upset about the brother skipping the sessions that Paul got him as a favor.
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Jun 4, 2012 15:38:49 GMT -5
Maybe he skipped those sessions because they sounded like a scam to him. I know that if someone I knew who had just gotten a degree came to me to ask about a non-profit that helped new grads get their first "real" job in their field, I'd be totally supportive of them going. If they then told me that a session with this "non-profit" cost $50, I'd start thinking scam.
Of course, I also live in a state that has very specific rules for calling yourself a non-profit. In WA, non-profit and not-for-profit buisinesses are different classes. (All medical insurers are legally required to be not-for-profit buisinesses.)
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GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl
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Post by GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl on Jun 4, 2012 15:41:12 GMT -5
Maybe I'm weird but I read all these post with the perspective of a parent not as the child I was. My response to my kids when they get older and want to say this stuff is "GROW THE HELL UP!" Seriously as a parent I am doing the best I can with the resources we have. I am not trying to be nicer to one or harder with the other. We are literally doing the best we can to give both kids what they need which is not the same things most of the time. That probably means that as they get older they will notice differences in what they were allowed or did, but it wasn't because one was our favorite. It was because they are two totally different people and have/will have had totally different needs from us as parents. One of my favorite parenting phrases is "Fair isn't equal, fair is according to each child's needs."
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Jun 4, 2012 15:58:19 GMT -5
I think the criticism Paul's family has freely heaped on his career choices is probably based more on them not understanding the world of business ownership than having a double standard. And considering how unsuccessful their prodding was on Paul, they probably decided not to repeat their misakes with the baby brother.
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Jun 4, 2012 16:22:39 GMT -5
Well, in most areas, you can hire a cleaning lady and lawn service for a heck of a lot less than you'd get renting out a room or two, so if contributing to the utilities and groceries is the only finanical contributions you were making, then technically, you can't exactly say you were pulling your weight. And while being nagged is annoying, it isn't costing you anything, is generally part of the package when you are depending on relatives for support, and gave you an incentive to get back out on your own, which is something every good parent should do.
My MIL talks to my parasitc BIL in a way that can only described as verbal abuse. (Actually, she talks to everyone like they are dirt.) But he hasn't been legally required to live with that woman for 15 years, and if not having to work is more important to him than being treated with respect, that is his decision.
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Don Perignon
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Post by Don Perignon on Jun 4, 2012 16:26:32 GMT -5
I have a couple of free invites to an Amway (cult) meeting... any takers? They tell me that this is a stellar opportunity and that attendees could end up very very wealthy !
...What, nobody leaping to reap this bounty?
LOL!
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Peace Of Mind
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Post by Peace Of Mind on Jun 4, 2012 16:44:31 GMT -5
If one of their kids turns out to be a self-important little prig dedicated to instigating conflict and angst and belittling and abusing those they view as their inferiors... what sane parent would welcome that child back into their home in adulthood? I have a brother-in-law of that type... while his parents are pleased when he visits, they're even happier to see him depart. His departures are always accompanied by a sigh of relief. Their youngest daughter, however, has repeatedly needed their assistance (with divorcing an immature husband and with raising her two kids)... and, even so, they'd always let her move into their home if she needed to. Because she's NOT a money-obsessed, irritating little troublemaker with a terribly inflated perception of herself... OMG! Your BIL is my brother!!
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jun 4, 2012 17:59:16 GMT -5
I don't think my family fits the mold. The two YM train wrecks would be the oldest and youngest. The middle three of us are doing alright. My older sister has the hard work thing down, but marrying a loser, and procreating too young can be a real kick in the balls. The youngest was coddled quite a bit by my mom and others. Always had somebody bailing him out, so he was still acting like a dumb teenager as a young adult. He seems to have finally started getting his act together in the last year, so it took him until about 24 or 25 to really grow up, and now he's got to dig out of the hole for stupid legal fines and stuff for acting like a dumb 16 year old for the past 7-8 years.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Jun 4, 2012 18:13:46 GMT -5
First person that started in just set me off- my recently graduated younger brother. He is single, he's moved back home-- which mystifies me because my parents never would have allowed me to move back home, but I digress. ----------------------- Maybe they just like him more than you. He's working, isn't he? What are you whining about? It's not like he's on welfare. Oh right, I forgot. Your raison d'etre is to show everyone the error of their ways. Yeah, um I'm not whining about anything. Just making an observation and genuinely wondering what's with the different expectations. I am not bitter or jealous about anything, either- I'd much prefer to be me. I don't think anyone's doing him any favors, believe me. And in fact, it is EXACTLY like he is on welfare. It may not be the public dole, but that's the mentality he's developing.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2012 19:27:59 GMT -5
Paul...was just wondering why you chose that pic on your YM acct., here...
You're caucasian, bald, 5'8", small stature and wear round wire rimmed glasses...
Not trying to insult you, really.....was just wondering what gives with the pic that is so clearly not a pic of you..
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Peace Of Mind
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Post by Peace Of Mind on Jun 4, 2012 19:31:17 GMT -5
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Jun 4, 2012 19:36:37 GMT -5
Even a bird knows to rip the stuffing out of the nest so it's prickly not comfy. [/i] [/quote] High five, brother. Spot on. BTW- I barely got past the first sentence about the cleaning lady being cheaper than renting out a room before I about spewed beer out my nose. I notice that it's a difficult catch 22 here at YM. You're either a parasitic welfare cheat buying lobster and Cheetos with your SNAP card, or you're a self-important, money obsessed blowhard. So, you're kinda damned if you don't here- and damned if you do. If some of you think I'm worried about the personal-attack-by-innuendo, I'm sorry to disappoint. It's not that it goes unnoticed, but I've gotten used to the fact my success makes the weak minded uncomfortable. One of my mentors fortunately told me about the time he finally had to stop apologizing for his success, so fortunately for me I won't have to stop apologizing for mine-- because I never started. As a result, some people are intimidated, bothered-- bullied, if you will, by some of what I write here-- but the wise pick up on it and apply it. Dogs bark, but the wagon train moves on.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Jun 4, 2012 19:39:00 GMT -5
Paul...was just wondering why you chose that pic on your YM acct., here... You're caucasian, bald, 5'8", small stature and wear round wire rimmed glasses... Not trying to insult you, really.....was just wondering what gives with the pic that is so clearly not a pic of you.. Easy there- Yes, I'm whiter than sour cream. But I'm not (all the way) bald (yet), and I'm 6'2" AND A HALF! That's Congressman Allen West right there. One of my heroes.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Jun 4, 2012 19:51:16 GMT -5
Maybe he skipped those sessions because they sounded like a scam to him. I know that if someone I knew who had just gotten a degree came to me to ask about a non-profit that helped new grads get their first "real" job in their field, I'd be totally supportive of them going. If they then told me that a session with this "non-profit" cost $50, I'd start thinking scam. Of course, I also live in a state that has very specific rules for calling yourself a non-profit. In WA, non-profit and not-for-profit buisinesses are different classes. (All medical insurers are legally required to be not-for-profit buisinesses.) It's not only not a "scam", it's very reputable, and very exclusive. You can't have a degree in underwater basket weaving or feminist lit. Bro happens to have a good degree, and meets some of the other qualifications. He has since informed me that he declined to go because he has recently been smoking with some friends and feared failing a drug screening. So, my gut assessment of the situation is correct. Some of you think I sit in judgment of people, but the truth is that there are two instances in which I offer my opinion, and they are: 1. When asked, and 2. In the presence of a whiner or complainer That leaves two relatively easy ways to never even know what my opinion(s) is/are; and even if offered, you can always ignore me. In the case of my brother, it's really out of love and concern. The guy is in his 26th year- about a third of his likely lifespan, and four years- roughly 10% of his working life is burned. In the can. Gone. And that's if he plans on burning the candle at both ends until he's 70 living the YM fabulous lifestyle clipping coupons and rinsing baggies. Most people are in the shit precisely because they can't work the simple math like this on the fly, and they fool themselves into thinking they have more time than they actually do, and their decisions are less important than they really are-- and they don't have the privilege of knowing anyone who'll point out the urgency of all this. I provide that service. Free of charge.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jun 4, 2012 19:52:14 GMT -5
I pity the fool that forgets to include that extra half inch too!
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hockeygrl
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Post by hockeygrl on Jun 4, 2012 21:30:29 GMT -5
I don't put any stock in the birth order BS. I guess if you have low expectations you will fulfill them. I'm the youngest of 4, the only one who graduated from a 4-year University, the only one with a Masters degree, and the highest earning of my siblings. They work hard and are successful in my eyes, but we all chose very different paths in life.
I'm also married to another youngest of 4 and we have an only child. I guess our DS has no hope of being anything but a coddled slacker, lol.
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Don Perignon
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Post by Don Perignon on Jun 4, 2012 21:33:25 GMT -5
I'm 5'10" inches tall... both on-line AND at the Dr.'s office (where they measure you when they weigh you). I don't feel any need to wear "elevator" shoes, or to tell people on the internet (whom I will never meet face to face) that I'm six feet xand a half inches tall. PS: I have a younger brother who's about six feet two inches tall (give or take a half-inch). I do not envy him for his height. When he was a callow youth in his early twenties, he sometimes used to look down on people (from that great height) but we broke him of that bad habit. "Those whom the gods would destroy, they first make proud and haughty."(paraphrased )
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2012 21:48:47 GMT -5
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2012 21:51:45 GMT -5
Don Perignon.....Paul's 5'7" or 5'8". I've seen him IRL many years ago...
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