Egypt Protests: The Tunisia Effect

[b2r]

Egypt protests: America's secret backing for rebel leaders behind uprising

The American Embassy in Cairo helped a young dissident attend a US-sponsored summit for activists in New York, while working to keep his identity secret from Egyptian state police.

On his return to Cairo in December 2008, the activist told US diplomats that an alliance of opposition groups had drawn up a plan to overthrow President Hosni Mubarak and install a democratic government in 2011

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/egypt/8289686/Egypt-protests-Americas-secret-backing-for-rebel-leaders-behind-uprising.html

[burnsattornincan]

Shutting down private companies servers is not much of a problem for any government. When threatened, they will do whatever it takes to quell the dissension. Usually if it has gotten that far they are past the point of no return and either security forces align with the populace and oust the government or a good old fashioned revolution will take place.

[traelin0]

Historically speaking, you are correct. A historian once wrote that when 3% of the populace is in open rebellion, it's over before it even started.

[deziloooooo]

"From what I can figure out, the US gov't "friendly" people in Egypt are under attack by the people, who want to replace the gov't with a Muslim extremist gov't that will certainly not be US friendly"
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There is no guarantee that it would be a militant extremist government that would take over in Egypt or any of the countries going though these up heavels..there are many political voices out there.

The problem is that because of the tight controls put on opposition parties an their views , there are no real strong consensus parties out there , and the militants might have the advantage for a short time.

Egypt has a educated young class , in the millions, most populated Arab country, and to say the militants would win in a take over, free elections is stretching it.

Possible, but I believe with the way the country is structured, the military, very, very much in control..that would not be allowed

We are probably going to see a change, Mubarak retiring, the newly appointed vice president or another, from the military taking over, new parliment..possible more freedoms and possible more political participation by civilians in the government but also possible a new from the military, the VP is one or another take over the leadership there.

[Deleted]

Latest I am hearing is that he put in place the top spy guy someone mentioned on the last page as VP, a position no one has held for 30 years, I think they said. People are saying this could be setting up for regime change, but that the people won't go for it, because he is too close to what they already have. The alternative seems to be this Muslim Brotherhood led bunch, which will mean all hell is going to break loose in the middle east.
As for you, Tenn-- the mess in Iran-- I did not want our gov't involved, but I certainly did side with the people, and thought Obama was a wimp for not speaking quickly in favor of the people of Iran, as he has spoken for the people of Egypt now. I side with the people in this mess, also. The difference being that Iran's current gov't is horrid and I was not worried about it being worse if the people won, while in this case if the Muslim Brotherhood takes control here and radicals end up running Egypt, siding with Iran and others against Israel I worry a world war could break out. I wish we did not have to be involved in any of this, but here we are. This is spreading week by week now, it seems. Who will be next, I wonder? If they close the Suez Canal somehow, I heard oil will go up $10 a barrel.
I've read several things like Trae's article in the last couple of years. It's really scary for someone like my family, that does not have the resources to try to insulate ourselves right now from something that may happen sooner or later. We could end up some of the people starving to death in the streets, which sounds impossible to me-- but then I see all this stuff on the news in other countries, see the numbers about where our country is in reality, and it seems like it could happen here, too.

[Tennesseer]

Jan 29, 2011 13:20:42 GMT -5 @krickitt said:

Latest I am hearing is that he put in place the top spy guy someone mentioned on the last page as VP, a position no one has held for 30 years, I think they said. People are saying this could be setting up for regime change, but that the people won't go for it, because he is too close to what they already have. The alternative seems to be this Muslim Brotherhood led bunch, which will mean all hell is going to break loose in the middle east.
As for you, Tenn-- the mess in Iran-- I did not want our gov't involved, but I certainly did side with the people, and thought Obama was a wimp for not speaking quickly in favor of the people of Iran, as he has spoken for the people of Egypt now. I side with the people in this mess, also. The difference being that Iran's current gov't is horrid and I was not worried about it being worse if the people won, while in this case if the Muslim Brotherhood takes control here and radicals end up running Egypt, siding with Iran and others against Israel I worry a world war could break out. I wish we did not have to be involved in any of this, but here we are. This is spreading week by week now, it seems. Who will be next, I wonder? If they close the Suez Canal somehow, I heard oil will go up $10 a barrel.
I've read several things like Trae's article in the last couple of years. It's really scary for someone like my family, that does not have the resources to try to insulate ourselves right now from something that may happen sooner or later. We could end up some of the people starving to death in the streets, which sounds impossible to me-- but then I see all this stuff on the news in other countries, see the numbers about where our country is in reality, and it seems like it could happen here, too.

krickitt-if you side with the people of Egypt then you must be willing to accept the government the people wish to rule their country regardless if Egypt is neutral or not with Israel.

[burnsattornincan]

So we are now seeing reports of roving gangs attempting to loot and pillage private homes in middle class residential neighborhoods. Residents are standing outside their homes with weapons ranging from baseball bats to guns so as to protect their property. What has Mr. fiscan been telling you for the last 2 years? Do you think this could not happen here? Think again.

[deziloooooo]

There are some reports coming out now..heres one regarding the antiquities..at least, for now, being protected, unlike what happened in Iraq after the overthrow.
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news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110129/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_egypt_protest_antiquities
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Another on the latest going on on the street rioting
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news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110129/wl_nm/us_egypt

[lakhota]

Egyptians Connecting To The Internet Via Modem, Fax, Ham Radio

Despite Egyptian authorities shutting down access to the internet, protesters in Cairo have been able to get online by some creative methods. Check out the slideshow to see how they're doing it.

www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/29/egyptians-connecting-to-t_n_815852.html#s232478&title=Steve_Puma

[traelin0]

Lakhota, "nature" always finds a way. Human beings were meant to live free, and they will do whatever it takes to live free.

burns, yes, that is the real problem, isn't it? The looting and pillaging aspect, which, coincidentally, is not a problem in places like Chile, because as we saw in Santiago during the earthquake, they are both well-armed and very communally organized.

[lakhota]

Why Egypt Matters: The Implications Of The Protests

As the protests continue in Egypt after President Hosni Mubarak's refusal to step down, the international media is increasingly focused on the Egyptian unrest. Why is the story gaining traction? There are a number of factors that make Egypt's unrest important, in both that country, the Middle East, and the world. Below, see the top reasons why Egypt should matter to you. You can also check here for the latest updates.

Slideshow of the 7 Reasons: www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/29/why-egypt-matters_n_815863.html#s232358&title=Strong_US_Ally

[traelin0]

Lakhota, who knows, maybe we'll see a spike in satellite phone purchases now, LMAO.

[burnsattornincan]

burns, yes, that is the real problem, isn't it?

It is a real problem for people who have always worked hard and over the years have accumulated material objects for both life's necessities and pleasure. Criminals will always gravitate to these objects under the current circumstances. It is your duty to protect these objects from the criminals by any means necessary. Sounds familiar, does it not?

[traelin0]

Those who have surrounded themselves with like-minded individuals, who see the potential for problems with our economy, will do OK.

[lakhota]

Lakhota, who knows, maybe we'll see a spike in satellite phone purchases now, LMAO.

I'm brushing up on smoke signals...

[lakhota]

Those who have surrounded themselves with like-minded individuals, who see the potential for problems with our economy, will do OK.

What if half one's family and friends are reasonable Democrats and the other half are deranged Republicans? What's a cat to do?

[deziloooooo]

Jan 29, 2011 19:17:40 GMT -5 burnsattornincan said:

burns, yes, that is the real problem, isn't it?

It is a real problem for people who have always worked hard and over the years have accumulated material objects for both life's necessities and pleasure. Criminals will always gravitate to these objects under the current circumstances. It is your duty to protect these objects from the criminals by any means necessary. Sounds familiar, does it not?

I guess I get slower by the day...don't understand the post in relation to the threads title..are you referring to the break in of the Cairo Museum by a couple of kids who were caught who did damage and possible were trying to steal some artifacts ?

[burnsattornincan]

You're not slow, just not thorough. Ok, you're slow. I suppose you skipped over my post at 4:36 pm. You should read all the posts before asking questions like the one you just asked. Sounds like you're pretty well connected with current news, strange you have no knowledge of the (attempted) looting of private homes in decent neighborhoods, something that could come to a theater near you. Or me.

[lakhota]

Anonymous Internet Users Team Up To Provide Communication Tools For Egyptian People

"Internet not working, police cars burning," sent out one Egyptian. "Today marks a great day for Egypt," sent out another.

These messages weren't coming from mobile phones or computers, but from an amateur radio sending out Morse Code somewhere amidst the chaos in Egypt.

The Egyptian government's efforts to limit communications within the country has triggered a wave of activism from an international group of free speech activists on the Internet called Telecomix.

Organizing using chat rooms, wikis, and collaborative writing tools, this largely anonymous group has worked to inform Egyptians about their communications options while receiving incoming messages from them. Telecomix has previously worked on free speech efforts in Tunisia, Iran, China and other countries who have tried to censor or block parts of the Internet.

Egypt has been identified as a "top priority" for Telecomix on one of its network sites, We Re-Build. It has a wiki set up as a one-stop shop with the latest chat rooms and resources for the ongoing efforts.

There are roughly 20 extremely active members, 50 active and some 300 total including lurkers, according to chat administrator Christopher Kullenberg from Gothenburg, Sweden.

"Think of Telecomix as an ever growing bunch of friends that do things together," Kullenberg says.

More: www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/29/anonymous-internet-egypt_n_815889.html

[burnsattornincan]

There are roughly 20 extremely active members, 50 active and some 300 total including lurkers

Wow. Overwhelming numbers. How about you just get yourself armed and stay safe.

[deziloooooo]

Jan 29, 2011 22:00:30 GMT -5 burnsattornincan said:

You're not slow, just not thorough. Ok, you're slow. I suppose you skipped over my post at 4:36 pm. You should read all the posts before asking questions like the one you just asked. Sounds like you're pretty well connected with current news, strange you have no knowledge of the (attempted) looting of private homes in decent neighborhoods, something that could come to a theater near you. Or me.

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To read all sometimes is to much. If some looting is going on it isn't surprising, we have had our share of craziness here if you can remember..oops your not from here, but we have LA, Hartford, Detroit, Camden...

What is neat to see, and it could have been the same in Iraq if our leader there at the time wasn't so quick on the trigger and stood down all the military and police after the over throw, basically not knowing anything about the country, the possibility of what happens in any society when law enforcement is absent but especially in a scenario that Baghdad was in, thus adding another stone of why they can't wait for us ton leave, is the way the students kept the looters away from precious assets till the military and police arrived , appreciating their rich heritage and not wanting it lost, even while the city was going a bit crazy.

All they want, the majority, is a 82 year old man who has controlled the country for 32 years now to leave..and hoping that they get something besides just another one who wants to set up a dynasty,

Actually the one appointed to the VP post is 78 and seems to be, from media reports, a patriot, and pragmatic with out any designs to set up another legacy. Very involved with the Israelis in their negotiations with the palastinians and brokering deals with Hamas.

Just hold it together till elections can be held. If so, hopefully Mubarak will go into retirement, his 49 year old son will go find a private sector job, {Sure the family is well set up} and the Egyptians will have a shot at something good..like here were all get along so well in friendly competition..we can teach them a lot in loving one another.. ;D

[burnsattornincan]

oops your not from here, but we have LA, Hartford, Detroit, Camden...

I've never heard of those places. Are they mostly inhabited by liberals, per chance?

[deziloooooo]

[lakhota]

LOOTING ENGULFS CAIRO: Gangs Roam The Streets In Police Absence

www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/29/looting-engulfs-cairo-oth_n_815868.html

[lakhota]

Egypt's contest between military and the Muslim Brotherhood snaps into focus

Men in uniforms have been running the country since King Farouk was overthrown in 1952 -- so the chances of true civilian rule are slight

It has not always been apparent since the jolly King Farouk scampered aboard his royal yacht in 1952 and fled into exile on the Italian paradise island of Capri, but Egypt has been a military regime ever since.

Behind the suits there have always been uniforms and even when there have been civilians in the administrations, the relationship with the military and other security forces has always been as close as teeth and gums.

When the regime is the military as opposed to being just supported by the military, the incentive not to bow to the kind of street demonstrations Egypt has experienced this week is that much more intense.

Tunisia's president Zein al-Abidine Ben Ali fell because army chief Gen. Rachid Ammar refused to order his men to shoot demonstrators.

It's a different relationship in Egypt, as President Hosni Mubarak, commander of the Egyptian Air Force until appointed vice-president in 1975, made clear on Friday.

More: www.vancouversun.com/news/Egypt+contest+between+military+Muslim+Brotherhood+snaps+into+focus/4189250/story.html

[traelin0]

Egypt: Vigilante Groups Form to Protect Local Communities Amid Riots, Looting

[safeharbor37]

krickitt-if you side with the people of Egypt then you must be willing to accept the government the people wish to rule their country regardless if Egypt is neutral or not with Israel.

The problem is how to get "....the government the people wish to rule their country...." A "revolution" is likely to give the people a government very much like they have, just a little more radical.

The Egyptians in general were better governed than most of the Arab world since the time of Nasser, but, unfortunately it hasn't improved much. Egyptian poor are a real problem, illiterate, poverty stricken with criminal tendencies and infected with Muslim extremism. There is a middle class and it has been unhappy for a long time. There is the feeling that, although the government has the support of most of the people, it is unresponsive to the needs of the people.
There a lots of modern factories run by international companies which look as modern as any in the west, but they are fenced off from the common people and only the elite work there. There is no reason why Egypt could not be as "progressive" as Turkey, but for the government.
If the "right" people gain power, it will be of great benefit for Egypt and the world, but, if Muslim extremists take over, it will aggravate an already sensitive situation.

[deziloooooo]

If I can remember the stats correctly from last night, CNN..Unemployment 12.9% . People living under poverty guide lines 40%{Think it's $3 per day} Food prices inflation this year..up 17%, Their growth is up this year 5.9%, much better then ours..largest population of all Arab countries 86 million.

Supposedly all college educated , if not able to get a job private sector..government will hire..wait period is/has been three years.

[traelin0]

Good discussion about our role via the IMF and "international influence" in Egypt.

The Protest Movement in Egypt: "Dictators" do not Dictate, They Obey Orders

[Value Buy]

It is beginning to remind me of New Orleans a few days after the hurricane.
Everything up for grabs.
Humanity does seem to fall back to basic instincts of hunter/looter mentality when things fall apart.