*sigh* Another year of daycare expenses

[973beachbum]

May 22, 2012 12:31:52 GMT -5 @anne81 said:

However, socially I was way behind by junior high and high school and did not fit in at all.

I think it's hard when a kindergarten class has kids ages 4-6. That's a huge developmental range.

It could actually be worse than that. Age 5-6 is normal for kindergarten. Say a couple of kids were held back a year to start? Then you have kids with ages from 4-7.

[thyme4change]

The cut off dates vary by state. So, usually in any given class they range is smaller. But there might be a 4 year old in California, where the cut off is Dec 1, and someone who turns 6 on September 1st in Arizona. The age difference is actually only 16 months - not 2 years, and they are likely not in the same class (given they aren't in the same state.)

[973beachbum]

May 22, 2012 13:05:44 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

The cut off dates vary by state. So, usually in any given class they range is smaller. But there might be a 4 year old in California, where the cut off is Dec 1, and someone who turns 6 on September 1st in Arizona. The age difference is actually only 16 months - not 2 years, and they are likely not in the same class (given they aren't in the same state.)

Thyme that is if everyone is entering by the cutoff dates. In this thread and IRL people have talked about having their child enter a year before the cutoff dates would have allowed. That adds a year to your 16 months. "Red shirting" is VERY common here. No one wants their kids to go to school a year early they all want them entering kindergarten a year later. So then that 16 months from normal gets added to the one year from the early startes and one from the late starters and you can get a 3.5 year range in the same classroom.

I have seen this in my kids classrooms. Not even trying to be nosy either. Someone will bring in cupcakes for their birthday. My son was 8 and turned 9 during 3rd grade this year. He will mention it was Grace's b-day. He will then say she is turning 8 on Sat or turned 10 that day. It happens a lot more than people think IMO.

[swamp]

I redshirted my kid.

[thyme4change]

In this thread and IRL people have talked about having their child enter a year before the cutoff dates would have allowed. That adds a year to your 16 months.

Are they really doing an entire year early, or are they just skirting the cut-off dates by a couple of months? Like, if the cut-off is Nov and my kid was born in Sept and put them in anyway, they aren't an entire year younger, they are only another 2 months younger.

Are there really people who are putting their kids in kindergarten when they are just turning 4, or turning 4 in December?

[singlemomky]

I was "redshirted" although they didn't call it that when I was starting school - I liked being one of the oldest in the class and I think that it definitely helped socially.

As for age ranges in the classroom - I think it depends on the child and the school. My DS goes to a Montessori school. When he was in K - he was in a PreK/K classroom (3, 4 & 5 yr olds). For 1st & 2nd grade he has been in a 1st/2nd/3rd grade room. But I think this works for the Montessori setting.

[snapdragon]

May 22, 2012 10:51:10 GMT -5 973beachbum said:

Where I live this isn't even a discussion very often. What I hear and see are parents keeping their kids out of school for an extra year if at all possible.

I really wouldn't want my four turing five year old starting first grade with a bunch of kids turning seven. JMHO

I started K at the age of 4 - my birthday is in August so it was keep me back or put me in...I must have tested high because they accepted me. I don't remember having many "social" problems I just had issues with my K teacher who was old and should have retired when my brother was in K. I never really had issues so I guess it depends on the child.

[Deleted]

they aren't an entire year younger, they are only another 2 months younger.

I think it depends on when the other kids were born and what their parents did. Like if a kid could have made the cut off a year earlier and their parents held them back.

DS was born on January first so he is often either the youngest or the oldest kid in whatever activity he is participating in.

I think it's important to give kids the extra year. Kids that enter kindy as four year olds are more likely to be labeled with learning problems by the school even though it's probably just a maturity problem.

[thyme4change]

DD was also youngest in her class, and she was late to puberty. She looked like all the other girls till 4-5th grade, and then suddenly - she looked 2 years younger than everybody as they all hit puberty and she did not.

I was one of the older ones in my class, but developed late. (I got boobs in college!) Knowing that my daughter won't be the first one through puberty was a relief in keeping her behind. However, knowing my son might be the last one through puberty doesn't put my mind at ease any. My husband is still scarred from being the last one through puberty.

[telephus44]

Well, my son is officially skipping Kindergarten. So I'm just continuing to be a bad parent.

It's funny, at the meeting even the principle brought up the cutoff date. Our town is Aug 31st, and DS was born Sept 20th. If we hadn't moved to this town in 2008 and stayed where we were living, DS would be in 1st grade anyways since their cutoff is Dec 1st.

I also think it's a mistake to think all kids the same age have the same maturity. Some kids are more mature at 4 than others are at 6. So to assume that you'll automatically have social problems just because of your age isn't right.

For us, I know DS isn't as emotionally mature as most 1st graders, but that's because he has autism. It doesn't mean I should hold him in the 4 year old preschool class until he matures.

And on size - he's about the size of an 8 year old even though he's 5-1/2. So I'm actually hoping being with older kids means his size will be less of a disadvantage, since people tend to assume he's older anyways.

[thyme4change]

I also think it's a mistake to think all kids the same age have the same maturity. Some kids are more mature at 4 than others are at 6. So to assume that you'll automatically have social problems just because of your age isn't right.

I don't think anyone thinks that social problems are unavoidable by early entry - just a greater possibility.

[mmhmm]

May 22, 2012 13:33:30 GMT -5 swamp said:

I redshirted my kid.

I redshirted my son, as well, swamp. He just wasn't ready for prime time.

[whoisjohngalt]

What does it mean "redshirted"? And can someone explain the US system to me, please? Don't you HAVE TO enter your kid into K by the time they are 5? Can parents just decide to wait if they want to?

We didn't have mandatory K, we started 1st grade at 7 and that was that. My B-day is end of Oct and my mom had to talk them into letting me start anyway. I am sooo glad she did.

Lena

[zibazinski]

Don't know about other areas but my old school system, a child had to be in K by age 6.

[thyme4change]

What does it mean "redshirted"? And can someone explain the US system to me, please? Don't you HAVE TO enter your kid into K by the time they are 5? Can parents just decide to wait if they want to?

"Redshirt" is when you have a sports scholarship, but don't actually play on the team. It gives people 5 years in college, but only 4 years playing. So, they "redshirt" the freshman, have him practice with the team, coach him and work with him, and then when he is a sophmore he is a better athlete. It is even more important in football, where size counts. So, in this case "redshirting" would just mean hold the kids out of school, even though they are eligible to go to school. It also means you have a kid that will graduate high school a year later.

I'm sure there are rules about the latest you can sign up a kid (or declare a homeschool situation.) I didn't even look into it. I was under the impression that parents had a choice when there were summer birthdays. I didn't know what we were doing was a big deal - until we got to school and my daughter was the only kid who was even close to 6. Granted, there were 10 birthdays between October and December, but whatever. We did what we had to do.

[973beachbum]

Thyme said what I have always heard and mean when I say redshirt.

As far as kids what I have heard other parents talk about is wanting their kids to have an advantage in school. The theory being that a child who starts kindergarten at six will be better able to learn and end up as a leader in the excelerated classes etc. I think just because of their age they should pick up things faster. What that means later on I have no idea.

My DD I redshirted. She would have been 4 going into kindergarten and just seemed to immature to me. I don't think they ever cared before. Now it is just neat to know she will be the first in her class to get a drivers lisence.

My son is a spring baby. He knew early on he wanted to go to school as soon as possible so he could start on becoming an engineer or scientist. As strange as it sounds he made that decision all by himself.

[whoisjohngalt]

Thanks for the explanation. That's really interesting. We (for now) planning to homeschool, but I don't know if I would want my kid to be the youngest or the oldest....hmmmm.... My oldest and youngest are summer kids and middle one is a spring baby, so either way, cut-off rules won't apply to us. We'll see. My oldest will be 4 in July - he is not starting regular school in Sept FOR SURE

Lena

[Angel!]

I considered seeing if I could get DS into kindergarten this fall at 4. Intellectually he is totally ready & loves learning & does well in structured environments & following directions. I had one of those pamphlets from the school regarding what you kids should know & he is way beyond that already.

The reason I didn't even try or look into it is because socially he isn't there yet. He can't stand up for himself & just starts crying when anything happens. His 20 month old sister picks on him & makes him cry . Add that he would be small due to his age & it seems like a disaster waiting to happen.

DD will make the cutoff by 3 weeks, unless she doesn't seem ready at that point I have no plans to wait.

There was a chapter in the freakonomics book about how there is an above average number of professional baseball players born in the summer months. The reasoning given is that they would have been the oldest in their class throughout school & thus stood out more even against kids that had the equivalent skill for their relative age.

[thyme4change]

I had one of those pamphlets from the school regarding what you kids should know & he is way beyond that already.

My son was way beyond that also - but that doesn't mean that he is flying through school without a care in the world.

Granted, it is a personality thing. My daughter loves schoolwork, and all things related. She loves pencils and writing and reading and math. She would just love to sit at the table and do puzzles or whatever - just for fun. She is doing great in school. My son likes sports and balls and running and hates, hates, hates writing. I am going to teach him how to type this summer - with ALL TEN FINGERS! If his handwriting will be illegible (as is his father's) at least he won't hunt and peck.

[TheOtherMe]

May 22, 2012 14:14:35 GMT -5 @tbird said:

I was youngest in my class, and while physically and intellectually on par throughout, emotionally I was behind, and it affected everything.

DD was also youngest in her class, and she was late to puberty. She looked like all the other girls till 4-5th grade, and then suddenly - she looked 2 years younger than everybody as they all hit puberty and she did not. She was completely abandoned by her former friends by 5-6th grade and hanging out with the kids in younger years and it seriously affected her self esteem for several years. My assurances that she would 'develop' fell on deaf ears - I just didn't understand that there was something "wrong" with her......well eventually it happened, but it took another 2 years for her to fit back in with the kids in her grade. Changing over to HS helped a bit, and finally by sophomore year she was feeling confident again.

I turned 5 in October when I started kindergarten. After we moved to a bigger city where the cut off date was September, I was pretty much the youngest in class from 3rd grade on.

Intellectually I was more than ready all the way through school. It was socially. Starting in about 6th grade, I felt like I never fit in again. This even continued through college. I don't look back on those years with fond memories.

Late to puberty, etc.

I didn't really find myself until I was an adult living on my own.

[Deleted]

For us, I know DS isn't as emotionally mature as most 1st graders, but that's because he has autism. It doesn't mean I should hold him in the 4 year old preschool class until he matures.

And on size - he's about the size of an 8 year old even though he's 5-1/2. So I'm actually hoping being with older kids means his size will be less of a disadvantage, since people tend to assume he's older anyways.

I wish you the best of luck with your DS. It isn't the easiest decision in either direction. DH was tested at 140 IQ in elementary and was 6'5 by the time he was a freshman. It's not an easy road to walk.

[TheOtherMe]

May 22, 2012 19:52:38 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

My parents started me too early and I struggled to keep up all the way through high school. It had a negative impact on my self esteem.

My exact experience.

[Deleted]

May 22, 2012 18:57:16 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

I had one of those pamphlets from the school regarding what you kids should know & he is way beyond that already.

My son was way beyond that also - but that doesn't mean that he is flying through school without a care in the world.

Granted, it is a personality thing. My daughter loves schoolwork, and all things related. She loves pencils and writing and reading and math. She would just love to sit at the table and do puzzles or whatever - just for fun. She is doing great in school. My son likes sports and balls and running and hates, hates, hates writing. I am going to teach him how to type this summer - with ALL TEN FINGERS! If his handwriting will be illegible (as is his father's) at least he won't hunt and peck.

Your daughter and son sounds like my brother and siter to a T. She is turner 9 in June and he is 10, she is a straight A student and he is more into sports, sociolazing at school.

When she gets home, without being asked she start doing her homework while you have to nag my brother to starts his homework or stay put long enough to do it.

She reads 5 books a week while if it is not school related or my parents forcing him he will not read. He prefers to play game stations while my sister always have a book in her hand or writing something.

Their personalities are total opposite. They are 16 months apart and 1 grade apart.

[alabamagal]

I started my son early in Kindergarten, cutoff date here is Aug 31, his birthday is Sept 13 (although he was born 2 weeks past his due date). He did not go to 3K or 4K. Although he was the youngest, he was the most emotionally and academically advanced in his class (he was reading on 2nd grade level at the start of K). I had to put him in private school to do this (or commit forgery....) so it wasn't really money saving. In his early school years he was average size, but shot up ~11th grade and is now 6'4". He just graduated high school. He has always done well academically, but is seems like he went from a super-genious (my words) in K to an above average near top of his class in high school. While overall we are happy with our decision to start early (and happy is going to college in the fall), here are a few of the minor downsides:

- When he took SAT in junior year, he did ok but not great. Scores jumped 300 points in senior year. Don't know if this was just maturity or he had a bad day first time
- He didn't like being the last one to get his driver license - if he complained too much we would threaten (jokingly) to hold him back a year.
- He played high school football, offensive line where size is important. He played some his junior year and started on offense and defense his senior year. His coach would really love to have him another year. Because so many people here hold their kids back (expecially boys), he was playing against kids up to 2 years older than him. If getting a football scholarship was part of his plans, it certainly would have been better for him to be in his class. He has had some coaches of very small schools talking to him about football, but he is not interested and is going to large state school with HOPE scholarship. Since going the football route would involve him spending a lot of time in weight room and putting on 30-60 pounds, I am glad he is not interested.

My other son was a "late" birtday here (July) and his 4k teacher recommended holding him back, mainly saying he was emotionally immature - he was but we wnt him on anyway. He struggled some in elementary with organization (and ADD). He is now in college, has a great social life and super girlfriend and a very high GPA.

It is always a big debate, and I think it should be up to the parents. Our boys have both done well with the challenges of being the youngest (or near youngest).

[Rocky Mtn Saver]

May 22, 2012 16:30:35 GMT -5 telephus44 said:

Well, my son is officially skipping Kindergarten. So I'm just continuing to be a bad parent.

FWIW, I skipped kindergarten entirely and I turned out fine! I missed the cutoff by about 3 days and the school wouldn't budge on it. So my mom asked what I needed to be able to do academically to enter first grade on time. Reluctantly, they told her, and she taught me those things at home. She only had two kids at the time, so she actually got me a bit ahead when I hit first grade. I did VERY well in school all the rest of my childhood.

[zibazinski]

When I was in school, kindergarten was private not public so kids started in first grade. It was felt that extra year at home with mom or a preschool or a private K was better for children. It was suggested to my parents that I be promoted a couple of different years. They didn't. It was a bad decision for me academically and as far as the other issues, I was always going to be short, still am, holding me back didn't fix that. But it did make me very unhappy in school.

[amishgal]

My kid is in 3rd grade and I'm still paying daycare expense for before/after care. It's not as much as all day care of course, but I could still be making a new car payment with that! Counting down the days til she can come home from school and stay home alone for a few hours.

[Deleted]

Like another poster, I skipped kindergarten completely. Being younger than my classmates didn't cause me any problems academically. I was still in programs for gifted kids starting in elementary school, I took advanced classes and got into the high school I graduated from through another program for gifted kids.

It wasn't hard for me socially either, but sometimes it kind of sucked always being the youngest person everywhere I went though. What I remember the most was in 10th grade when my classmates were turning 16 and getting driver's licenses and I didn't turn 16 until a few months into 11th grade.

[TheOtherMe]

Since I went to school in the 60's, there were no gifted programs or opportunities to take courses that got college credit in high school.

My niece and nephews all were in what is called TAG (talented and gifted) and all had college credits when they graduated high school.

That would probably have kept me much more interested in school.

[telephus44]

See, what I don't get is that I think of lot of the social/emotional stuff is more about personality. I know that this is just my opinion, but it is what it is. My birthday is in May and DH's is in July - so we both went to school with kids our age, not older or younger - and we both had major social issues leading to low self-esteem and depression. I really don't think being a year older than everyone else would have helped.