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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2012 8:48:06 GMT -5
He needs to apply for new jobs & be honest about the fact that he was fired for a HIPAA violation AND needs to be able to demonstrate that he learned from what he did wrong. If it was me, I would immediately enroll myself in a retraining class at my own expense to show that I was absolutely serious about never letting it happen again.
If he is still minimizing it & indicating why it wasn't really a violation, then he doesn't own the error & he won't change what he's doing.
Own it, fix it, move on.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2012 8:49:12 GMT -5
Also, does he/she know what the former employer will communicate when they are contacted for a reference?
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2012 8:52:20 GMT -5
Yikes. If there was media coverage, he's probably screwed.
If it was an internal issue, he may still run into trouble if he is looking for work in the same community where there are just a handful of major health systems that run through all of the hospitals and clinics because people will be more likely to know each other within a network.
If he has personal connections in his program, they may be able to help him get into a new region. In a new region where there aren't those relationships, they are more likely to just get the HR party line and he can control his message a little more with his interview and references.
(All of that being prefaced on the assumption that this was an innocent mistake and he's learned his lesson. Because ultimately, he has had HIPAA training and should have known better. If he's not someone who can adhere to those rules, he may want to look at a new field)
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Peace77
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Post by Peace77 on May 19, 2012 9:17:45 GMT -5
He should apply for forbearance or deferment on his student loans due to his unemployment.
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Post by maryjane on May 19, 2012 12:20:23 GMT -5
From your friends student loan debt and salary level, I am guessing that he is a doctor or an equally specialized professional.
He might have to suck it up and move to a medically under-served area where they need people too badly to be too picky. Montana and Alaska (lots of others too, I am sure) have areas that insurance companies define as medically under-served. He could talk about a desire for clean air/out door living or getting out of the city as a reason to re-locate/change positions. Sorry if this seems drastic. Thinking of worst case scenario idea.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on May 19, 2012 12:41:03 GMT -5
I tend to agree with a change of "climate" for this individual. If most folks in the health industry in your area know one another, it's pretty doubtful word isn't going to get out about why he's not around anymore. If he's able to move, he needs to start looking for employment in another area. There are temp agencies that place healthcare professionals, and that might be a possible choice for him. Not too difficult to explain if you just say you're taking the opportunity to learn about different communities before you settle down.
Hopefully, he's learned his lesson. Sorry it had to be the hard way, but HIPAA is something the healthcare industry takes very, very seriously.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on May 19, 2012 18:35:14 GMT -5
Yowza! I don't even know if he could move to another country. We take breach of confidentiality VERY seriously up here. It's one of the worst things you can do.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2012 19:31:14 GMT -5
You apologize to the company that fired you and explain that you made a mistake and are educating yourself on Hippa policy. Then, i would tell your friend to go take a class on Hippa, patient privacy and so forth and obtain some certificate of attendance or the like. Then, apply for jobs and be very candid that a mistake was made that your friend has taken measures to correct any deficiencies and learn from these mistakes and move ahead.
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doxieluvr
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Post by doxieluvr on May 20, 2012 7:37:13 GMT -5
People are way to serious over privacy...really one signature on a medical authorization form and all medical records can be viewed. It is as if people really care about another persons medical diagnosis.
For the record a good portion say hypertension and morbid obesity. Clearly the public can visibly see a person is fat without having to be told.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2012 7:37:43 GMT -5
People make mistakes. It was a costly error. Now he needs to accept what happened, learn from it, and move on.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on May 20, 2012 9:23:39 GMT -5
People are way to serious over privacy...really one signature on a medical authorization form and all medical records can be viewed. It is as if people really care about another persons medical diagnosis. For the record a good portion say hypertension and morbid obesity. Clearly the public can visibly see a person is fat without having to be told. Are you serious? My employer almost fired a group of nurses awhile ago. There was a celebrity patient in the hospital and nurses having nothing to do with this patient's care were checking out his chart and telling the press! FWIW, releasing of medical information requires that those the info is released to be HIPAA compliant and there is a hell of a lot more information in records than their weight.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on May 20, 2012 9:32:44 GMT -5
You apologize to the company that fired you and explain that you made a mistake and are educating yourself on Hippa policy. Then, i would tell your friend to go take a class on Hippa, patient privacy and so forth and obtain some certificate of attendance or the like. Then, apply for jobs and be very candid that a mistake was made that your friend has taken measures to correct any deficiencies and learn from these mistakes and move ahead. The fines imposed upon an institution for a HIPAA breech can be as much as $1.5 million, with criminal penalties too. Since the healthcare worker knew what he did, it was not that he didn't know the rules. In his case, the penalty can be as much $50,000 per incident. Where I work, we get HIPAA education repeatedly. Ignorance is no excuse....and neither is bad judgement.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on May 20, 2012 10:40:04 GMT -5
People are way to serious over privacy...really one signature on a medical authorization form and all medical records can be viewed. It is as if people really care about another persons medical diagnosis. For the record a good portion say hypertension and morbid obesity. Clearly the public can visibly see a person is fat without having to be told. Are you serious? My employer almost fired a group of nurses awhile ago. There was a celebrity patient in the hospital and nurses having nothing to do with this patient's care were checking out his chart and telling the press! FWIW, releasing of medical information requires that those the info is released to be HIPAA compliant and there is a hell of a lot more information in records than their weight. You can't possibly be serious! It encompasses so much more than a person's weight! From mental illness to HIV....you KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT! We recently had a major superstar being treated in our hospital. I wouldn't even give you his initials, because it's WRONG.
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Post by findingdeadbeats on May 20, 2012 10:57:03 GMT -5
I worked for a hospital for a long time. When HIPPA first came out, one of our PBX operators decided to say what a slut she thought one of the patients must be due to the excessive number of calls she was getting from men and her diagnosis in the computer that we could see. She mentioned the patient by name, and the next day she was out the door and her 20 year career with Kaiser was instantly over.
I do think it depends a lot on what was said and who it was said to. In the case I mention, it was only said in our office so they used this as a reason to get rid of a toxic employee. There wasn't really any other harm because no one else heard it.
However, if you said something about a patient by name and someone in the family heard you, you might have a very serious problem ever finding another job.
All that to say, I think there are various levels of HIPPA violations and I think the consequences depend on both what was said and who happened to hear it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2012 11:08:36 GMT -5
I don't think you know enough about the situation to advise the person accurately. Only he can speak to former HR and ask what they will convey in a reference. Since they gave him the opportunity to resign, they were probably doing him a favor and won't disclose circumstances since it was not a firing. He needs to ask what they will disclose & then put his story together based on that.
I hope however he does some re-training to better sensitize himself to the issue so he won't repeat the error in the future.
Sounds like he should pay some $s to get the assistance of an outplacement or recruiting firm that specializes in his industry that can give him accurate input on how to deal with the situation and what if anything to disclose. If you are not in the same industry, I think it would be hard to give correct advice.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on May 21, 2012 9:18:12 GMT -5
Wrongside I'm glad you're worried about your friend and trying to help him. I hope he doesn't do anything too drastic or impulsive due to this.
Since he's tightly wound he may not accept the fact that he's human, like other people, and that sometimes humans screw up. Sometimes in very major ways. But history is full of people who made major errors and then came back and had a spendid career.
I would also vote with those who say he should consider an underserved rural area for his next job. He should take a HIPPA refresher course and be upfront with his new employer, tell them he didn't take the rules as seriously as he now knows he should have, he learned from his mistake and it won't happen again.
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2012 9:21:04 GMT -5
You apologize to the company that fired you and explain that you made a mistake and are educating yourself on Hippa policy. Then, i would tell your friend to go take a class on Hippa, patient privacy and so forth and obtain some certificate of attendance or the like. Then, apply for jobs and be very candid that a mistake was made that your friend has taken measures to correct any deficiencies and learn from these mistakes and move ahead. The fines imposed upon an institution for a HIPAA breech can be as much as $1.5 million, with criminal penalties too. Since the healthcare worker knew what he did, it was not that he didn't know the rules. In his case, the penalty can be as much $50,000 per incident. Where I work, we get HIPAA education repeatedly. Ignorance is no excuse....and neither is bad judgement. I didn't say he had an "excuse". I said he made a mistake. And, i said that there is nothing left to do other than admit it, apologize, and take the time to educate himself for the future. What do you propose instead? That he commit hari kari or what?
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2012 9:33:52 GMT -5
Good point.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on May 21, 2012 9:41:17 GMT -5
The fines imposed upon an institution for a HIPAA breech can be as much as $1.5 million, with criminal penalties too. Since the healthcare worker knew what he did, it was not that he didn't know the rules. In his case, the penalty can be as much $50,000 per incident. Where I work, we get HIPAA education repeatedly. Ignorance is no excuse....and neither is bad judgement. I didn't say he had an "excuse". I said he made a mistake. And, i said that there is nothing left to do other than admit it, apologize, and take the time to educate himself for the future. What do you propose instead? That he commit hari kari or what? What I am saying s that the fines imposed upon a HIPAA breech are severe enough that it shouldn't have happened in the first place. During the classes I have been to, this is stressed and there is zero tolerance. There are signs all over the medical center about respecting patient privacy and not discussing cases in public....so one gets slapped with reminders daily. His employer is covering their ass the only way that they can.
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2012 9:54:40 GMT -5
I didn't say he had an "excuse". I said he made a mistake. And, i said that there is nothing left to do other than admit it, apologize, and take the time to educate himself for the future. What do you propose instead? That he commit hari kari or what? What I am saying s that the fines imposed upon a HIPAA breech are severe enough that it shouldn't have happened in the first place. During the classes I have been to, this is stressed and there is zero tolerance. There are signs all over the medical center about respecting patient privacy and not discussing cases in public....so one gets slapped with reminders daily. His employer is covering their ass the only way that they can. Well, it DID happen. Things happen. My point in apologizing isn't that this company rehires him or is somehow going to keep him on. I never said they shouldn't fire him. My point was to acknowledge the mistake and apologize as the right thing to do, educate oneself further and then move on. Not sure what is so unclear about what i am saying.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on May 21, 2012 10:49:27 GMT -5
Jeesh! It's not like he pulled the wrong lever and crashed a plane. So, you'd have no problem if a medical worker posted on Facebook that you have gonorrhea, after seeing it in your chart? After all, it's not like he crashed a plane. In the medical field, it's one of the worst things you can do. You keep your mouth SHUT.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on May 21, 2012 11:18:49 GMT -5
So, you know for a fact that this is what happened? I don't think so. I think this was a minor mistake, with little or no harm done and a guy shouldn't lose his job over it. We are getting way to bent out of shape, over too much, with things like this. It's just me, but I really could care less if half the town knew my medical conditions. ---------------------------- Sorry, but it isn't a question of degrees, as in "You can talk a little bit about a patient, but not a lot about a patient." You don't EVER talk about patients. Period.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on May 21, 2012 11:54:49 GMT -5
No kidding. I used to date a doctor who always had some funny stories to tell but even then, he was very careful, and I would have never had a clue who they patients were, to never give me a clue.
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on May 21, 2012 12:10:17 GMT -5
My niece is very, very careful when she tells us stories of her surgeries. Whatever happens there is not worth losing her job over.
A small violation is like being a little bit pregnant. There is no such thing as a small violation of HIPPA.
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gawgagranny
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Post by gawgagranny on May 21, 2012 12:25:30 GMT -5
Theotherme, you hit the nail on the head--there is no such thing as a "little" HIPPA violation. I don't think that some posters who aren't in a medical field realize just how big a deal a HIPPA violation is. All of us in health care have that beaten into our heads early & often!
Like welts said above, it just isn't done!
Wrongside, I feel sorry for your friend. The other posters who have suggested that he seek out an underserved area to practice his profession have the right idea in my opinion....and if they did allow him to resign rather than be terminated, probably all they will do is verify employment dates if asked for a reference (also due to privacy laws, ironically!)
I am guessing that from the amount of student loans he has outstanding that he must be a physician or in some rather highly compensated area like anesthesia (CRNA) or the like--as a general rule, medically underserved areas are thrilled to get someone like that to come practice in their areas and often don't ask too many questions if one has the proper credentials to present on request.
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Abby Normal
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Post by Abby Normal on May 21, 2012 12:46:46 GMT -5
there is no such thing as a "little" HIPPA violation.
No, but there should be a difference between intentional and unintentional. There was a thread a while back about the doctor who inadvertantly revealed a pregnancy when the family asked about testing for something else. To me that should be disciplined differently than a flagrant violation.
We had a situation locally that was a mess. It involved the people who process the payments on hospital accounts. They have access to charts and three of them decided to look up someone they knew who was sick. Person 4 overheard them and turned them in. Their desks were cleaned out that night. Person 5 was there when the desk cleaning was being done and called person 1 to her know. Three people fired for HIPPPA and one fired for violating internal policy. I'm sure it was a career end-er for them.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on May 21, 2012 12:52:01 GMT -5
So, you'd have no problem if a medical worker posted on Facebook that you have gonorrhea, after seeing it in your chart? After all, it's not like he crashed a plane. In the medical field, it's one of the worst things you can do. You keep your mouth SHUT. So, you know for a fact that this is what happened? I don't think so. I think this was a minor mistake, with little or no harm done and a guy shouldn't lose his job over it. We are getting way to bent out of shape, over too much, with things like this. It's just me, but I really could care less if half the town knew my medical conditions. No, but that is besides the point. Your personal health information is not for others to distribute. A well known person was in the hospital attached to where I am employed. Nurses went into his medical records and released his personal health information to the press. It doesn't matter who you are, you are entitled to privacy. Discussing your medical problems on an elevator violates your privacy. To answer your question, yes....I would be pissed off if my employer found out about my medical issues that were none of their business.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on May 21, 2012 12:58:34 GMT -5
So, you know for a fact that this is what happened? I don't think so. I think this was a minor mistake, with little or no harm done and a guy shouldn't lose his job over it. We are getting way to bent out of shape, over too much, with things like this. It's just me, but I really could care less if half the town knew my medical conditions. ---------------------------- Sorry, but it isn't a question of degrees, as in "You can talk a little bit about a patient, but not a lot about a patient." You don't EVER talk about patients. Period. I work in a lab that receives patient samples....no patient identifiers. We do not discuss patients, ever. It is just easier to be overly cautious than for us to lose grant funding (which we are all employed under), which would be a secondary effect of us violating HIPAA. Just not gonna happen.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on May 21, 2012 13:03:07 GMT -5
there is no such thing as a "little" HIPPA violation. No, but there should be a difference between intentional and unintentional. There was a thread a while back about the doctor who inadvertantly revealed a pregnancy when the family asked about testing for something else. To me that should be disciplined differently than a flagrant violation. We had a situation locally that was a mess. It involved the people who process the payments on hospital accounts. They have access to charts and three of them decided to look up someone they knew who was sick. Person 4 overheard them and turned them in. Their desks were cleaned out that night. Person 5 was there when the desk cleaning was being done and called person 1 to her know. Three people fired for HIPPPA and one fired for violating internal policy. I'm sure it was a career end-er for them. Read up on the AMA website on HIPAA violations. There ARE degrees of violations. But institutions tend to do a decent job of educating staff, so accidental slips should be few, if any. The link posted above, with the surgeon taking a picture of his patient's penis tattoo on his cell during surgery is a flagrant violation of this.
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2012 13:51:31 GMT -5
I think we have all established that the OP violated Hippa. Yes, yes, yes. I think the question wasn't how should we further bee itch slap the OP's friend around but what to do? At least, that is how i read it.
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