Living longer? Yes!

[Deleted]

Working longer? I don't think so.

This is in regards to the argument that people are now living longer thus we need to change the retirement age.

On paper it sounds good but I believe there is a flaw to the argument: just because I live longer does not mean I can work longer.

Yes I've met some healthy/fit 70 year old folks, alive and vibrant but they are not a representation of the population as a whole. Thanks to modern medicine people are living longer but doesn't mean they have gotten healthier. Some folks live years/decades with illnesses that can make it impossible to do their job:
- bad eyesight
- arthritis
- stroke
- obesity
- etc.

My goal right now is to retire at 62 or the moment I am eligible for social security/medicare and medicate... Not a minute more unless I absolutely have to. Yes waiting to 70 will give me mote $$$ monthly but I believe I will still come out ahead, even more so if I croak at 69.

I work retail and I give myself another 10 years before I transfer out of the stores. I see folks doing it here in their 50's, 60's and up and it is obvious for some that their body is breaking down and can't take it anymore.

[Bob Ross]

By that time, 70 will be the new 30.

[Deleted]

May 15, 2012 15:22:05 GMT -5 Bob Ross said:

By that time, 70 will be the new 30.

Yeah that is what we will say so we can make ourselves feel better about being old farts

[Jaguar]

May 15, 2012 15:22:05 GMT -5 Bob Ross said:

By that time, 70 will be the new 30.

70 is already the new 50, by Carl's retirement it will be the new teens.

[thyme4change]

To be serious when everyone else is being silly...

I think about this a lot. My career has somewhat stalled, and I lack inspiration. I often ask myself if I've got another 20 years left in me. Or, could I change disciplines, if so, what am I qualified for? 20 years would only get me to 63 - I'd need another 30 years of motivation to get past 70.

[midjd]

Good point. Most of DH's family are in fairly labor-intensive professions - logging, HVAC installation, housekeeping/cleaning, even nursing - and these types of jobs don't usually lend themselves to a 40+ year career without some major adjustments. And desk jobs pose their own issues. I've had eye problems in the past and know that once my vision goes, my job goes, too.

I don't know what the answer is, though. Like you said, pushing back the SS/Medicare age sounds good, but may not work well in practice. Especially with the prevalence of age discrimination - it could be possible to lose one's job at 55 or 60 and never be hired again. That's a long time to wait for SS to kick in.

It makes me sad to go to the grocery store and see a 70-year-old stocking shelves when it's obviously difficult for them.

[Deleted]

59 1/2 and not a day later.

[Bob Ross]

May 15, 2012 15:25:43 GMT -5 Jaguar said:

70 is already the new 50, by Carl's retirement it will be the new teens.

Does that mean we can expect 70 year olds to be wearing short shorts with terms like "sassy" and "juicy" plastered on their posteriors?

[Sum Dum Gai]

70 is already the new 50

Yeah, but only because the old 50 was really old. Most people died in their sixties and were already falling apart at 50.

[Angel!]

I see no problem with pushing back the SS age. It would save this country money & keep SS going without a large tax increase. Just because you can't get SS yet doesn't mean you can't retire.

I would have more of a problem moving the medicare age unless they revamp healthcare & insurance. This is simply because health insurance is one of the reason people can't retire early now - it is too expensive to get insurance or they are uninsurable through private insurance.

[thyme4change]

Does that mean we can expect 70 year olds to be wearing short shorts with terms like "sassy" and "juicy" plastered on their posteriors?

I think it is gross and desperate when I see 50 year olds doing that. But I'm pretty sure I will do that when I'm 70. It will be hilarious!

[Sum Dum Gai]

I see no problem with pushing back the SS age.

Except for the fact that I pay more into SS than I do in federal taxes. If that money was going into a private account along with my 401k I could retire at 50. Instead they're handing the money to a bunch of lazy baby boomers that never saved for retirement, but still retired at 62, and telling me to wait until I'm 70 to get anything. Sounds like a pretty bum deal to me.

[Waffle]

Maybe Angel is on to something. Move down the medicare age and move up the SS age. People who otherwise have "enough" money to retire, but are just waiting because of health care would go sooner, which would also free up more jobs for unemployed people who want to work.

(I know someone is going to come along and show me the holes in that theory)

[justme]

SS was never meant to support people for 20, 30 years of retirement. So if the vast majority are looking for SS to support them or to determine when they will retire then something will have to give. Benefits go down (but that will most likely cause welfare to go up), retirement age goes up (but that could increase the number of those on disability), or increase taxes (which never solves everything and at a certain level increasing taxes actually decreases tax revenue). I guess there's the long shot - the majority actually save correctly for retirement so SS goes back to not being needed until the last 5-10 years of retirement, if that.

[Deleted]

May 15, 2012 15:51:58 GMT -5 justme said:

SS was never meant to support people for 20, 30 years of retirement. So if the vast majority are looking for SS to support them or to determine when they will retire then something will have to give. Benefits go down (but that will most likely cause welfare to go up), retirement age goes up (but that could increase the number of those on disability), or increase taxes (which never solves everything and at a certain level increasing taxes actually decreases tax revenue). I guess there's the long shot - the majority actually save correctly for retirement so SS goes back to not being needed until the last 5-10 years of retirement, if that.

I am not planning on needing it but damn it I will take it.

I have been paying into it since I was 18, so 44 years by the time I reach it 62.

[973beachbum]

May 15, 2012 15:30:28 GMT -5 midjd said:

Good point. Most of DH's family are in fairly labor-intensive professions - logging, HVAC installation, housekeeping/cleaning, even nursing - and these types of jobs don't usually lend themselves to a 40+ year career without some major adjustments. And desk jobs pose their own issues. I've had eye problems in the past and know that once my vision goes, my job goes, too.

I don't know what the answer is, though. Like you said, pushing back the SS/Medicare age sounds good, but may not work well in practice. Especially with the prevalence of age discrimination - it could be possible to lose one's job at 55 or 60 and never be hired again. That's a long time to wait for SS to kick in.

It makes me sad to go to the grocery store and see a 70-year-old stocking shelves when it's obviously difficult for them.

This describes most of DH's family as well. I dont think most people realize what being a mechanic, or other job like it, for 40 years does to someone's body.

So what do they do when they are 58 and have been working for 40 years and their bodies can't take it anymore?

[Sum Dum Gai]

So what do they do when they are 58 and have been working for 40 years and their bodies can't take it anymore?

Stock shelves or man a register at Walmart. When they get really decrepit they transition to standing by the door saying Hi and giving stickers to kids.

[973beachbum]

May 15, 2012 16:07:49 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

So what do they do when they are 58 and have been working for 40 years and their bodies can't take it anymore?

Stock shelves or man a register at Walmart. When they get really decrepit they transition to standing by the door saying Hi and giving stickers to kids.

That is easy for you to say since your job entails sitting behind a computer posting on line all day.

[Sum Dum Gai]

That is easy for you to say since your job entails sitting behind a computer posting on line all day.

Good point, they could do my job, but they need to get the right training first. By the time you're already a broken down mechanic that's almost 60 and looks 70 it's probably too late to snag my job.

[justme]

I'm not saying don't take it. I plan to too, assuming it's there. My point was that the beast that is won't be the same once you/I get to that age and I fully believe that something will have to give. Full retirement after for those born after 1960 is already 67 and to take SS at 62 you'd be looking at only 70% of your full benefit. Except SS will be "bankrupt" by then and full benefits are only expected to be 75% of what's promised. (And that's what they're expecting 20 years from now, I dunno if the "full" benefit percentage decreases as time goes on.) If you take 70% of the lowered full benefit at 62 you're looking at a little more than 50% of what was promised.

[Angel!]

May 15, 2012 16:07:49 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

So what do they do when they are 58 and have been working for 40 years and their bodies can't take it anymore?

Stock shelves or man a register at Walmart. When they get really decrepit they transition to standing by the door saying Hi and giving stickers to kids.

Your walmart gives out stickers? Man my walmart sucks. Most of the time the greeters in my store don't even say anything, they just kind of stare as people walk in.

[973beachbum]

May 15, 2012 16:14:26 GMT -5 justme said:

I'm not saying don't take it. I plan to too, assuming it's there. My point was that the beast that is won't be the same once you/I get to that age and I fully believe that something will have to give. Full retirement after for those born after 1960 is already 67 and to take SS at 62 you'd be looking at only 70% of your full benefit. Except SS will be "bankrupt" by then and full benefits are only expected to be 75% of what's promised. (And that's what they're expecting 20 years from now, I dunno if the "full" benefit percentage decreases as time goes on.) If you take 70% of the lowered full benefit at 62 you're looking at a little more than 50% of what was promised.

Which is the exact reason every economist who has studied this says that means testing is a must for the future.

Say that on P&M and heads start exploding.

[Sum Dum Gai]

Your walmart gives out stickers?

Sometimes. There never seemed to be any rhyme or reason to when they had them either.

Most of the time the greeters in my store don't even say anything, they just kind of stare as people walk in.

That's what happens when you hire people older than the crypt keeper to do a job.

[Deleted]

May 15, 2012 16:14:26 GMT -5 justme said:

I'm not saying don't take it. I plan to too, assuming it's there. My point was that the beast that is won't be the same once you/I get to that age and I fully believe that something will have to give. Full retirement after for those born after 1960 is already 67 and to take SS at 62 you'd be looking at only 70% of your full benefit. Except SS will be "bankrupt" by then and full benefits are only expected to be 75% of what's promised. (And that's what they're expecting 20 years from now, I dunno if the "full" benefit percentage decreases as time goes on.) If you take 70% of the lowered full benefit at 62 you're looking at a little more than 50% of what was promised.

"bird in the hand..."

If I live to see 62, I an perfectly ok with only getting 50% of what was promise instead of waiting till 70 to get 75%.

That is 8 years extra that I will get to enjoy that money, gift it away or stock it away for my grandkids.

I rather that than wait till 70 only to die at 68. Yea I would be pissed ;D

[thyme4change]

Both my parents were offered paying jobs at the places that they volunteered for after they retired (in their 70's.) My Mom took the money - it was minimum wage, and part time. My Dad, however, turned them down. He knew if he was an employee, he was obligated. When he was a volunteer he just told them "I can't come in on the following dates..." and there wasn't much they could do about it. The job was $10/hour. My father was a pretty sucessful business man - so I thought it was funny that he could be making the same as my high school aged neice.

[Malarky]

May 15, 2012 16:09:43 GMT -5 973beachbum said:

May 15, 2012 16:07:49 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

So what do they do when they are 58 and have been working for 40 years and their bodies can't take it anymore?

Stock shelves or man a register at Walmart. When they get really decrepit they transition to standing by the door saying Hi and giving stickers to kids.

That is easy for you to say since your job entails sitting behind a computer posting on line all day.

I'm 50 and arthritis is becoming a problem. If I'd had to sit behind a computer for the last 30 years, I'd be one of those stories about the employee who took out the whole office. Sitting still is not an option. Yet at some point,a lot of standing and reaching and lifting will be out of the question as well.

Be sure to drop money in my cup when you pass me on the street.

[Sum Dum Gai]

Be sure to drop money in my cup when you pass me on the street.

Whatever! I'll be all, "Get a job ya bum!" Every single day when I walk by. I'll say it with that goofy intent that people do, like you've honestly never thought of that and it's a good thing I came by to let you in on the secret too.

[Malarky]

[Bob Ross]

May 15, 2012 16:18:59 GMT -5 Angel! said:

May 15, 2012 16:07:49 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

So what do they do when they are 58 and have been working for 40 years and their bodies can't take it anymore?

Stock shelves or man a register at Walmart. When they get really decrepit they transition to standing by the door saying Hi and giving stickers to kids.

Your walmart gives out stickers? Man my walmart sucks. Most of the time the greeters in my store don't even say anything, they just kind of stare as people walk in.

One time, I licked the sticker, with unfortunate consequences.

[Sum Dum Gai]

One time, I licked the sticker, with unfortunate consequences.

Wrong slightly creepy old guy handing out stickers dude. The one at Walmart is harmless, the one outside the bar... well...