Frequent Fliers who Fly too Much

[Deleted]

I thought this article was really interesting and am a little taken aback at the heavy handed treatment these customers got. I didn't know that these kinds of programs existed:

www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-0506-golden-ticket-20120506,0,7103119.story?page=1&utm_medium=feed&track=rss&utm_campaign=Feed%3A%20latimes%2Fbusiness%20%28L.A.%20Times%20-%20Business%29&utm_source=feedburner

[midjd]

That was an interesting article, I didn't realize those programs existed either.

Odd how it went on for so many years with no fuss and they only started to play hardball once they realized they'd been hemorrhaging money. You sell someone unlimited flights for life, what do you expect?

Edited to remove article excerpt... can't seem to do anything right these days.

[Deleted]

Lawsuits and harassment of customers doesn't seem like the right way to eliminate the passes. Pretty tacky move.

[zibazinski]

They didn't have an issue taking the money, did they?

[chiver78]

Mid - can you remove the quoted article? CoC says to provide a link, or just an excerpt. thanks

-chiver mod

[Deleted]

Actually, Chiver, Mid just provided a LONG excerpt. I read the entire article by way of Bonn's link. The actual article is four pages long.

(Can we just relax on here if we can't relax on the "Mother" board?"

[Deleted]

May 6, 2012 14:25:42 GMT -5 midjd said:

You sell someone unlimited flights for life, what do you expect?

Exactly!

What did they think? Folks would fess up 350k and not use it?

I would be flying every chance I get if I bought it too. Our biggest deterrent to flying oversees is the costs of tickets (so we tend to keep it local/within the US) so yeah if I had that We would be all over Asia, Africa and Europe like white on rice.

[lynnerself]

But I do agree they shouldn't be selling the companion seats to other people.

[Deleted]

I'd be interested in what the original terms and conditions were for those passes. I'm sure the airline didn't WANT you to use them for "companions" who paid you for the privilege, but was it forbidden?

Frankly, I'm wary of paying for lifetime ANYTHING. (That includes some mainstream products such as annuities.) They're there to take your money, as zib pointed out, but then you're depending on them to be around for your lifetime and not change the rules on you. I do have lifetime Gold on AA but didn't really spend money to get it- partly flying over about 20 years, partly credit card, brokerage account and other bonuses, a few purchased miles when I needed them to get a particular award. The fine print says I'm Lifetime Gold as long as there's an AAdvantage program- for whatever that's worth.

[chiver78]

May 6, 2012 19:42:34 GMT -5 southernsusana said:

Actually, Chiver, Mid just provided a LONG excerpt. I read the entire article by way of Bonn's link. The actual article is four pages long.

(Can we just relax on here if we can't relax on the "Mother" board?"

I'm pretty easygoing, actually. That excerpt was longer than others over on P&M that have gotten yanked for length. In any case, I'm on my phone now and can't do anything about it now anyway. hopefully mid sees and can edit herself. the CoC is as it is to allow for ease of reading. scrolling thru on my phone just now, that quote was half the page.

I don't mean to be the heavy, just trying to keep things user-friendly for everyone.

sent from my electronic distraction

[chiver78]

May 6, 2012 14:25:42 GMT -5 midjd said:

Edited to remove article excerpt... can't seem to do anything right these days.

mid, you're fine. pls see my prior post. hope all is well

sent from my electronic distraction

[quotequeen]

May 6, 2012 20:20:20 GMT -5 TheHaitian said:

May 6, 2012 14:25:42 GMT -5 midjd said:

You sell someone unlimited flights for life, what do you expect?

Exactly!

What did they think? Folks would fess up 350k and not use it?

I would be flying every chance I get if I bought it too. Our biggest deterrent to flying oversees is the costs of tickets (so we tend to keep it local/within the US) so yeah if I had that We would be all over Asia, Africa and Europe like white on rice.

Using it a lot doesn't really seem to be the issue here. The people in the article were booking flights they never intended to take "just in case" and booking companion seats for their luggage so nobody would sit next to them. That does seem pretty abusive.

[Deleted]

May 7, 2012 7:49:11 GMT -5 quotequeen said:

May 6, 2012 20:20:20 GMT -5 TheHaitian said:

Exactly!

What did they think? Folks would fess up 350k and not use it?

I would be flying every chance I get if I bought it too. Our biggest deterrent to flying oversees is the costs of tickets (so we tend to keep it local/within the US) so yeah if I had that We would be all over Asia, Africa and Europe like white on rice.

Using it a lot doesn't really seem to be the issue here. The people in the article were booking flights they never intended to take "just in case" and booking companion seats for their luggage so nobody would sit next to them. That does seem pretty abusive.

They did pay 100k for the companion seat, so they could either
A) invite someone to go with them each time
B) reserve it so they don't have to seat next to anyone.

I mean for the 100k they have paid, I would probably just invite a friend if my wife could not make it.

Also they said they were booking flights in case. I booked a flight to Vegas for a bachelor party in case I could make it but it came down to work or party. I chose work, AmericanAirlines did not refund me my $600.

They were greedy and now are paying for it. If those folks only used it once or twice a year they would not be complaining but laughing and saying "SUCKERS". But they forgot that some folks are like me: if I pay for something I am going to get my money's worth out of it. Those folks paid 350k and they are getting their money's worth out of it.

[zibazinski]

[quotequeen]

May 7, 2012 7:59:59 GMT -5 TheHaitian said:

May 7, 2012 7:49:11 GMT -5 quotequeen said:

Using it a lot doesn't really seem to be the issue here. The people in the article were booking flights they never intended to take "just in case" and booking companion seats for their luggage so nobody would sit next to them. That does seem pretty abusive.

They did pay 100k for the companion seat, so they could either
A) invite someone to go with them each time
B) reserve it so they don't have to seat next to anyone.

I mean for the 100k they have paid, I would probably just invite a friend if my wife could not make it.

Also they said they were booking flights in case. I booked a flight to Vegas for a bachelor party in case I could make it but it came down to work or party. I chose work, AmericanAirlines did not refund me my $600.

They were greedy and now are paying for it. If those folks only used it once or twice a year they would not be complaining but laughing and saying "SUCKERS". But they forgot that some folks are like me: if I pay for something I am going to get my money's worth out of it. Those folks paid 350k and they are getting their money's worth out of it.

Well apparently you are willing to pay for something and not get your money out of it like that ticket... But I really don't think the intent of the companion pass is to allow you to book a ticket you have no intention of using in order to get an empty seat next to you. I actually thought you can't even do that anymore, because if a person doesn't check in and get on the plane that seat will be given to somebody on standby or on the wait list for first class.

[lynnerself]

Too bad they discontinued this program. I would have added it to my what I would do if I won the lottery list!

[Deleted]

May 7, 2012 9:12:50 GMT -5 quotequeen said:

May 7, 2012 7:59:59 GMT -5 TheHaitian said:

They did pay 100k for the companion seat, so they could either
A) invite someone to go with them each time
B) reserve it so they don't have to seat next to anyone.

I mean for the 100k they have paid, I would probably just invite a friend if my wife could not make it.

Also they said they were booking flights in case. I booked a flight to Vegas for a bachelor party in case I could make it but it came down to work or party. I chose work, AmericanAirlines did not refund me my $600.

They were greedy and now are paying for it. If those folks only used it once or twice a year they would not be complaining but laughing and saying "SUCKERS". But they forgot that some folks are like me: if I pay for something I am going to get my money's worth out of it. Those folks paid 350k and they are getting their money's worth out of it.

Well apparently you are willing to pay for something and not get your money out of it like that ticket... But I really don't think the intent of the companion pass is to allow you to book a ticket you have no intention of using in order to get an empty seat next to you. I actually thought you can't even do that anymore, because if a person doesn't check in and get on the plane that seat will be given to somebody on standby or on the wait list for first class.

I said I did not get a refund but they gave me credit towards another flight.

Also if you buy two seats you get to do a you please,you paid for them. A family member that is on the heavy side always purchase two tickets to fly this way no one accuses her of spilling into their seats.

Last time they overbooked and they gave one of her seats away, they had to refund her the ticket price for the other seat.

Money talks, shit walks. My aunt purchases two tickets every time she flies, those folks paid 100k extra for that convenience. Maybe like my aunt they don't care to deal with people, their bitching and paid for the convenience.

If they don't like it refund them their 100k like they refunded my aunt her ticket costs.

[973beachbum]

The extra reservations do seem to be the sticking point. The one guy made something like 3000 and no showed on about 2500 times one year. I would say that is abusive if the airline its self hadn't started it by having a special agent for them to do just that. I guess when they started it they thought it would be a few trips a year when they started really taking advantage of it AA didn't like it so much anymore.

The one guy did show his agreement and they didn't have any restrictions about selling it in his. Again how dumb could the airlines laywers have been?

This article reminds me of when I was in college in Newark,NJ. Does anyone else remember People's ariline? They used to have $25 round trip tickets to places like Florida and Peurto Rico. We would go down and get in line at 5AM and be on stand by for any beautiful destination they had and go down for the day or the weekend. We didn't even need a hotel. We were young and in an exotic location, who needs sleep?

[The J]

May 7, 2012 7:59:59 GMT -5 TheHaitian said:

Also they said they were booking flights in case. I booked a flight to Vegas for a bachelor party in case I could make it but it came down to work or party. I chose work, AmericanAirlines did not refund me my $600.

This isn't a case of booking the flight in case you could go on the trip. This is more of booking a flight, and the next one, and the one after that, in case you decide you want to sleep in a little later in the morning.

[dancinmama]

Companies don't like it when the consumer figures out how to beat them at their "own game". American Airlines set the price of the pass and made the rules at the time that they sold the tickets thinking that they would win "the game" before it was ever played. Later they realize that they had lost the game and then want the consumers to "stop playing". I agree that some of the consumers were abusive; but as long as they "played by the rules" set by American to entice people to buy the passes, I say too bad for American.

[973beachbum]

Did anyone read any of the comments? this one brought up something I didnt think about before and I think they are right. It is very frightening to realize that this could happen in this country.

Does it bother anyone that a non-government agency detained a person, who did not commit a crime? (in reference to the college student) And then they planned to exploit his lack of financial "wherewithal" and coerce him into making a statement (apparently while detained, speaking to a police detective). Does it bother anyone that this happened in the US...ironically, American Airlines.
I do think these two did abuse the system, but also the airline did sell them something (and did not appear to think through the long term costs), for a lot of money and seem to be going back on their word because it was not working for them anymore...they were happy to take the funds at the time. The measures they took to get out of the commitment are really the frightening part of the story to me. Does corporate private security have the right to infringe on personal liberties, potentially through acts that would not be constitutional?
It just seems very wrong.

[hoops902]

"I agree that some of the consumers were abusive; but as long as they "played by the rules" set by American to entice people to buy the passes, I say too bad for American. "

Some of the arguments they are making are based on their interpretation of the rules though. For example, booking fraudulent tickets under fake names seems as if it's not playing by the rules. I would expect that possibly "booking seats which you have no intention of using" probably falls under that also. I think there are a lot of other practices which probably fall much more firmly in the "you just got outsmarted" category.

[8 Bit WWBG]

This is a whole level of awesome! But yeah, it was naive to think that people wouldn't take advantage of the program. Its a short distance from "taking advantage of" to "abuse". Plus, they were earning freebies on top of flights!

[Gardening Grandma]

Really interesting article. It seems that the unlimited first class was offered about 1998, so $350K then was worth quite a bit more than $350K now. It did seem that some of the fliers were abusing the spirit (if not the letter) of the agreement, but it sure shows poor judgement on the part of the AA executives.

Isn't AA now in bk? Would that invalidate the agreement?

[Deleted]

GG,

That seems to be the thinking, although I have to laugh thinking it through. Depending on the type of BK, creditors are typically paid about $.10 on the dollar. So instead of unlimited flights I wonder if these guys only get to fly one month out of the year...and collect only 10% of the miles.... ;D

[thyme4change]

That agreement sounds like a really good deal. A couple trips per month, over the course of 10 years. Breakeven! If you were a business person, I could totally see that working out. I know people who fly every week.

[Deleted]

Basically AA realize that what yet thought was a slam dunk win in their favor is not, and now they want to take their ball and go home while crying it's not fair.

[973beachbum]

May 7, 2012 13:14:36 GMT -5 hoops902 said:

"I agree that some of the consumers were abusive; but as long as they "played by the rules" set by American to entice people to buy the passes, I say too bad for American. "

Some of the arguments they are making are based on their interpretation of the rules though. For example, booking fraudulent tickets under fake names seems as if it's not playing by the rules. I would expect that possibly "booking seats which you have no intention of using" probably falls under that also. I think there are a lot of other practices which probably fall much more firmly in the "you just got outsmarted" category.

then why did the AA personal agent for these people teach them to do just that? I am with you until it comes to the problem of them originally doing it for them and then telling them to do it.

The bottome line is AA only got upset when they realized that they didn't charge nearly enough money for these passes.

That or do a medical check to make sure the people are older and in much worse shape medically.

[hoops902]

"then why did the AA personal agent for these people teach them to do just that?"

1. Just because someone claims that the AA agent told them how to do it doesn't make it true.

2. If it is true, it doesn't mean they are allowed to do it. One employee in a cookie shop might take a cookie and give it to you when they weren't supposed to. That doesn't mean you get to walk into the store and take a free cookie anytime you want for the rest of your life.

As for the booking seats you have no intention of using, I can see where that can go from "the agent told me to do it" to "totally out of control". I can see an agent handling a call along the lines of "I've got this flight booked, but I'm running a bit late, not sure if I'm going to make it" and the agent books them on the next flight as well as the first. Not much harm in doing it occasionally. That's a far cry from consistently booking flights, over 80% of which you know you'll never use.

[thyme4change]

What hoops said.