safeharbor37
Well-Known Member
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 23:18:19 GMT -5
Posts: 1,290
|
Post by safeharbor37 on Jan 24, 2011 14:43:22 GMT -5
" P.S. "....if the corporate doors are only open to white males with master degrees in chemical engineering?" is just demagoguery. No one is suggesting that anyone be denied "equal access." The argument is that "certain" people should not get "preference" over "other" people. [We do not believe that, "some animals are more equal" than others.] " [see reply #33, and read it if you want the answer.]
|
|
Tennesseer
Member Emeritus
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 21:58:42 GMT -5
Posts: 63,440
|
Post by Tennesseer on Jan 24, 2011 15:06:25 GMT -5
How many posters believe an employer (if their business or corporation falls under EEO and OFCCP laws and guidelines) must hire someone in a protected class over a white male?
Just curious.
|
|
safeharbor37
Well-Known Member
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 23:18:19 GMT -5
Posts: 1,290
|
Post by safeharbor37 on Jan 24, 2011 15:14:29 GMT -5
" How many posters believe an employer (if their business or corporation falls under EEO and OFCCP laws and guidelines) must hire someone in a protected class over a white male? " This sounds like another "gotcha" question. Having been subject to anti-discrimination laws, State and Federal, I can assure you that if you've not met your "quota" of "minorities," you'll be subject not just to sanctions in funding, but to civil lawsuits [particularly when it's necessary to discipline "minority" employees]. For what it's worth, I always met my "quotas" and never lost an appeal. But I know it's a PITA to meet the Federal and State requirements.
|
|
Tennesseer
Member Emeritus
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 21:58:42 GMT -5
Posts: 63,440
|
Post by Tennesseer on Jan 24, 2011 15:18:52 GMT -5
Thanks for your response Safeharbor-I would like to see some other answers before I respond.
|
|
|
Post by ed1066 on Jan 24, 2011 15:45:09 GMT -5
So your alternative is to hire them because of their race? Isn't that kind of insulting to a qualified minority, that they are being given a job because of their color rather than their qualifications?
|
|
Politically_Incorrect12
Senior Member
With a little faith, we can move a mountain; with a little help, we can change the world.
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 20:42:13 GMT -5
Posts: 3,763
|
Post by Politically_Incorrect12 on Jan 25, 2011 7:21:13 GMT -5
"The same way that black athletes succeed. By showing that they can do the job in a superior fashion." If no one will hire them because of their race, how will they show they can do a job in a superior fashion? What is that called when you make broad assumptions about a particular group of people thinking or acting a certain way? In this case, you are assuming people are a bunch of bigots.
|
|
ChiTownVenture
Familiar Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 10:39:06 GMT -5
Posts: 648
|
Post by ChiTownVenture on Jan 25, 2011 9:31:21 GMT -5
Are minorities not able to start business, or do they just rely on other people to hire them?
|
|
workpublic
Junior Associate
Catch and release please
Joined: Dec 30, 2010 14:01:48 GMT -5
Posts: 5,551
Favorite Drink: Heineken
|
Post by workpublic on Jan 25, 2011 10:15:58 GMT -5
Are minorities not able to start business, they get preferential treatment there too.
|
|
Tennesseer
Member Emeritus
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 21:58:42 GMT -5
Posts: 63,440
|
Post by Tennesseer on Jan 25, 2011 11:54:22 GMT -5
Are minorities not able to start business, or do they just rely on other people to hire them? To start a business you usually need money-that money is normally obtained through employment experience and savings. Small business loans are available too but you would need a proven track record of ability to repay the loan, an excellent credit history, personal equity in the business, collateral, and management experience. All of the above just about applies to anyone wishing to start a business.
|
|
|
Post by privateinvestor on Jan 25, 2011 11:55:59 GMT -5
|
|
Tennesseer
Member Emeritus
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 21:58:42 GMT -5
Posts: 63,440
|
Post by Tennesseer on Jan 25, 2011 11:56:26 GMT -5
"The same way that black athletes succeed. By showing that they can do the job in a superior fashion." If no one will hire them because of their race, how will they show they can do a job in a superior fashion? What is that call when you make broad assumptions about a particular group of people thinking or acting a certain way? In this case, you are assuming people are a bunch of bigots. No PI12-just a few.
|
|
Tennesseer
Member Emeritus
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 21:58:42 GMT -5
Posts: 63,440
|
Post by Tennesseer on Jan 25, 2011 11:59:29 GMT -5
I never understand why some posters link a thread to the same thread. Can you explain that to me P-I?
|
|
safeharbor37
Well-Known Member
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 23:18:19 GMT -5
Posts: 1,290
|
Post by safeharbor37 on Jan 25, 2011 12:22:12 GMT -5
Starting a business is hard and chances of failure are great. What's new? If you notice, one of the conflicts which has made the news is the tendency of Koreans to start businesses and become prosperous in exactly the same situation that Blacks find themselves ~ the result being that Blacks resent the Koreans for their success, which is even harder to bear because it removes the excuses given by the Blacks and for the Blacks by people like Tennesseer. The problem is not in the situation, it is in our attitude. The experience of all of us on a personal basis, if we've lived long enough and learned anything, demonstrates that our failures are our own, not the making of others. Bill Cosby is an example of the attitude that's required, but that is fought tooth and nail by the likes of Jessie Jackson, Al Sharpton and the likes of Tennesseer. Successful [American] Black and Black immigrants don't seem to have the problems faced by the "minority." I've known successful Blacks and other minorities who overcame their upbringing, leaving behind the culture of poverty, drug abuse, prostitution and crime that affects their families and former neighborhoods. Although they are more sympathetic toward their kin, they agree with my conclusions ~ or rather, the conclusions I've learned from them. One of the problems [perhaps the main problem] is that "some people" keep telling failures that their failures are not their fault, but the fault of others. It seems to be in the political, economic and social interests of some, including some members of the "minority," to assure that "minorities" never fully integrate in the larger society. That would destroy the "coalition" that constitutes the Democratic Party.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Apr 26, 2024 15:24:11 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2011 12:25:33 GMT -5
NO preferential treatments. Best person for the job gets the job. Period.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Apr 26, 2024 15:24:11 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2011 12:26:20 GMT -5
IF there are minorities that get passed over-- well, they should have worked harder, and whined less.
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,459
|
Post by billisonboard on Jan 25, 2011 12:32:09 GMT -5
NO preferential treatments. Best person for the job gets the job. Period. That is based on what is an incredibly questionable assumptionm Which is that there is a single "best person" for a particular job.
|
|
Tennesseer
Member Emeritus
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 21:58:42 GMT -5
Posts: 63,440
|
Post by Tennesseer on Jan 25, 2011 12:33:46 GMT -5
IF there are minorities that get passed over-- well, they should have worked harder, and whined less. This applies to white people too. Correct?
|
|
verrip1
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 13:41:19 GMT -5
Posts: 2,992
|
Post by verrip1 on Jan 25, 2011 13:22:54 GMT -5
I never understand why some posters link a thread to the same thread. Can you explain that to me P-I? It is an artifact which happens whenever you insert a c&p from the board. You have to manually delete it before you post your reply to keep it from posting.
|
|
Tennesseer
Member Emeritus
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 21:58:42 GMT -5
Posts: 63,440
|
Post by Tennesseer on Jan 25, 2011 13:30:23 GMT -5
There was no C&P other than the thread title and "Read More" and the link. The comment now at the bottom of the post was added after the fact.
|
|
Politically_Incorrect12
Senior Member
With a little faith, we can move a mountain; with a little help, we can change the world.
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 20:42:13 GMT -5
Posts: 3,763
|
Post by Politically_Incorrect12 on Jan 26, 2011 5:02:06 GMT -5
It looks like "no" is the more popular vote on this thread.
|
|
safeharbor37
Well-Known Member
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 23:18:19 GMT -5
Posts: 1,290
|
Post by safeharbor37 on Jan 26, 2011 12:37:13 GMT -5
The concept of "Rule of Law" provides the rational basis for a "level playing field." To tilt the "playing field" to favor one over another is based on "Rule by Law" which is a totalitarian approach in which the "powers that be" determine winners and losers rather than allowing the rewards to be determined by performance on the field. As a general rule, I believe that it has been shown that "Rule of Law" and a "level playing field" have been more beneficial to the majority [Greatest Good for the Greatest Number] than has manipulation by a central authority, which tends to base decisions on political factors rather than business principles and which applies "Rule by Law" to achieve its view of a "fair" society. The alternatives are freedom vs. subservience, initiative vs. dependency, and intellectual honesty vs. distortion of reality to achieve [real or imaginary] goals. Freedom, initiative and intellectual honesty seem preferable to me.
|
|
|
Post by traelin0 on Jan 26, 2011 13:25:51 GMT -5
The concept of "Rule of Law" provides the rational basis for a "level playing field." To tilt the "playing field" to favor one over another is based on "Rule by Law" which is a totalitarian approach in which the "powers that be" determine winners and losers rather than allowing the rewards to be determined by performance on the field. As a general rule, I believe that it has been shown that "Rule of Law" and a "level playing field" have been more beneficial to the majority [Greatest Good for the Greatest Number] than has manipulation by a central authority, which tends to base decisions on political factors rather than business principles and which applies "Rule by Law" to achieve its view of a "fair" society. The alternatives are freedom vs. subservience, initiative vs. dependency, and intellectual honesty vs. distortion of reality to achieve [real or imaginary] goals. Freedom, initiative and intellectual honesty seem preferable to me. When are you running for statewide office?
|
|