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Post by ed1066 on Jan 24, 2011 20:37:18 GMT -5
Sounds good. Post #62 on that thread is still there. When do you plan to delete it?
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jan 24, 2011 20:37:21 GMT -5
Abortion is legal.
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Loopdilou
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Post by Loopdilou on Jan 24, 2011 20:38:16 GMT -5
Ed - I urge you to actually examine abortion law. You might be surprised at what you find are legal reasons for having an abortion post 23 weeks. None of them are for convenience.
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Loopdilou
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Post by Loopdilou on Jan 24, 2011 20:38:51 GMT -5
Tenn, I'll delete the portion of my post that contains the meanness.
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steff
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Post by steff on Jan 24, 2011 20:38:51 GMT -5
If you make abortion illegal, you deny it to the women who will need it the most....rape victims & when it threatens the mothers health. It must be kept legal for ALL women so it is available to those who will need it the most.
If yall are going to harp on the 1% of late term abortions, then I'm going to start bringing up the 1% that are rape victims.
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Post by lakhota on Jan 24, 2011 20:39:48 GMT -5
Abortion is legal, but some don't care about the law.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jan 24, 2011 20:39:52 GMT -5
Sounds good. Post #62 on that thread is still there. When do you plan to delete it? Well I don't know Ed. The moderatorTrae was the one who addressed the issue. Ask trae! But I guess Trae is not around so I will delete the post after I delete your personal attack against another poster on a different thread.
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steff
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Post by steff on Jan 24, 2011 20:41:18 GMT -5
And to chime in with the others.... abortion is LEGAL.
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Post by ed1066 on Jan 24, 2011 20:43:25 GMT -5
Good! Glad to see you back in the game. If you can maintain objectivity (or at least fake it well), you may make a good moderator yet...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2011 20:43:26 GMT -5
Two things krickitt... ONE... people were punished for what happened... the doc lost his liscence, and the person who did that to the baby was criminally charged... The actions were not legal... you cannot kill a live baby...
Two... if you track down the case, you find this "According to the suit, Williams, then 18, discovered while being treated for a fall that she was 23 weeks pregnant. She went to a clinic to get an abortion on the morning of July 20, 2006, after receiving medication and instructions the previous day."
She was 23 weeks pregnant (at least)... and didn't know it?.... no prenatal care.... wonder if it really was 23 weeks?
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formerexpat
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Post by formerexpat on Jan 24, 2011 20:46:31 GMT -5
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2011 20:48:01 GMT -5
Do you have any statistics on the child that lived at 21 weeks? Did she go on to have a 'normal' existance?
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fairlycrazy23
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Post by fairlycrazy23 on Jan 24, 2011 20:55:33 GMT -5
From a federalist point of view I think the law should be overturned and returned to the states. I suspect at least one or two states would continue to allow abortions.
I guess from a moral point of view it comes down to when you think a fetus becomes a human being, I would contend that at what ever point that is, conception, couple of days,12 weeks, 24 weeks, 36 weeks or 11000 weeks , you should not want abort after that period under any circumstance with the possible exception of the life of mother is in danger from the pregnancy.
As medical technology advances, the viability date should continue to lower, so that it is conceivable that a fetus only a few days old could be brought to full term artificially.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jan 24, 2011 20:56:42 GMT -5
Good! Glad to see you back in the game. If you can maintain objectivity (or at least fake it well), you may make a good moderator yet... Ed-I have deleted your post. And before I could delete Loop's post she modified it so there is nothing offensive to delete. Loop followed Trae's advice and trae and I agree what is currently written is acceptable. Tennesseer/Moderator
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Mad Dawg Wiccan
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Post by Mad Dawg Wiccan on Jan 24, 2011 20:56:52 GMT -5
If you make abortion illegal, you deny it to the women who will need it the most....rape victims & when it threatens the mothers health. It must be kept legal for ALL women so it is available to those who will need it the most.
That makes no sense. If abortion is kept legal only for rape, incest, and when the mother's life is endangered (the ones who need it the most), then why does it need to be legal for all?
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steff
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Post by steff on Jan 24, 2011 20:59:26 GMT -5
As medical technology advances, the viability date should continue to lower, so that it is conceivable that a fetus only a few days old could be brought to full term artificially
*******************************************
And who is going to pay for the care that infant is going to need? Even a slightly premature baby can cost millions of $$ before they get to go home. So now something smaller than a peanut is going to be "viable" in an artificial womb and who is going to pay for that? The welfare mom who couldn't afford to have the baby to begin with? The teenager that was date raped and didn't tell anyone? The abused wife who already has 4 kids and is barely clinging to her sanity between beatings? The incest victim?
Who is going to foot the bill for this incredible technology that is going to grow a baby outside the womb? And that's if there aren't any problems.
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Mad Dawg Wiccan
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Post by Mad Dawg Wiccan on Jan 24, 2011 21:00:45 GMT -5
And to chime in with the others.... abortion is LEGAL.
The legality of anything is just the stroke of some lawmaker's pen. Would abortion suddenly be "bad" in your mind if R v W was suddenly overturned?
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Post by ed1066 on Jan 24, 2011 21:01:02 GMT -5
Why, the government, of course! Isn't that what "affordable health care for everyone" is all about? You DO support "affordable healthcare for everyone", don't you?
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Jan 24, 2011 21:01:11 GMT -5
Right, much more convenient to just kill it. Especially if mom is depressed about being pregnant or doesn't have time to raise a baby. Maybe she'll think twice next time...or maybe not... I'm about done with your distaste for the irresponsible potential mom-to-be. where is your outrage for the "responsible" gentlemen who joined her in the tango? seriously, wtf?
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Post by marjar on Jan 24, 2011 21:01:28 GMT -5
With medical advances, the age of viability is only going to decrease. The current earliest born child that lived in US was 21w 6d.
At what cost and who pays the cost of the monumental care required for these babies to stay alive? Which, I suppose is another topic.
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steff
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Post by steff on Jan 24, 2011 21:02:00 GMT -5
That makes no sense. If abortion is kept legal only for rape, incest, and when the mother's life is endangered (the ones who need it the most), then why does it need to be legal for all
***************************************************
So death panels are a total no no, but having to justify or get permission from some "moral/religious" panel of folks to have an abortion is acceptable? Because you revictimize a rape victim by forcing her to beg for her own sanity and well being. Because you revictimize the incest victim by forcing her to stand before strangers and justify why she needs an abortion and then "hope" that the panel is willing to agree.
You deny it to all women and you deny it to those that need it the most and they are also the ones who are least likely to talk about why they need it.
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Post by marjar on Jan 24, 2011 21:03:58 GMT -5
Right, much more convenient to just kill it. Especially if mom is depressed about being pregnant or doesn't have time to raise a baby. Maybe she'll think twice next time...or maybe not...
Think twice about what?
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steff
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Post by steff on Jan 24, 2011 21:04:01 GMT -5
I'm still amazed at how many men seem to think they get to control what women can or cannot do. Women they have never met, will never meet, and women that they have no clue of their situations and circumstances.
Grow your own dope.....plant a man.
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Post by marjar on Jan 24, 2011 21:05:03 GMT -5
And to chime in with the others.... abortion is LEGAL. The legality of anything is just the stroke of some lawmaker's pen. Would abortion suddenly be "bad" in your mind if R v W was suddenly overturned? Nope.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2011 21:05:47 GMT -5
What i don't understand is how you can say 'it's murder'... but if a mother is raped, then she has the right to murder her child... but no other people have the right to do so... ?? ... Why wouldn't it still be murder? ... I mean justifiable homicide would say she could do in the guy raping her, but the 'baby' didn't do anything... right?...
To me it is most hypocritical to say you believe in it in these cases and not others... i mean, i don't believe life starts at conception, so i have no problem at all with rape victims and incest victims, etc, having an abortion... but for someone to actually believe it is murder, and then condone the murder... ?
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fairlycrazy23
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Post by fairlycrazy23 on Jan 24, 2011 21:08:35 GMT -5
This could lead into a whole discussion into infant mortality rates, the US for lack of a better term tries harder to save premature babies and this actually negatively impacts our infant mortality rate and also raises medical costs. But my point was simply that at whatever date premature babies survive will likely keep getting shorter. So "but the truth of the matter is that even at 23 weeks that baby is unlikely to survive. And even if it does survive, statistically it will have major developmental problems.", this date will likely continue to drop.
So if some people want to use the viability date for the cut-off of legal abortions, it will likely continue to shorten.
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Post by marjar on Jan 24, 2011 21:15:24 GMT -5
Right, much more convenient to just kill it. Especially if mom is depressed about being pregnant or doesn't have time to raise a baby. Maybe she'll think twice next time...or maybe not... I'm about done with your distaste for the irresponsible potential mom-to-be. where is your outrage for the "responsible" gentlemen who joined her in the tango? seriously, wtf? Yes, it is getting old, isn't it? The statements regarding the mother thinking twice are insulting and sexist.
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Post by ed1066 on Jan 24, 2011 21:15:41 GMT -5
He's equally responsible, but all the pro-abortion folks on here who are saying it is 100% "a woman's choice" seem to disagree with us on that...
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vonnie6200
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Post by vonnie6200 on Jan 24, 2011 21:20:59 GMT -5
What i don't understand is how you can say 'it's murder'... but if a mother is raped, then she has the right to murder her child... but no other people have the right to do so... ?? ... Why wouldn't it still be murder? ... I mean justifiable homicide would say she could do in the guy raping her, but the 'baby' didn't do anything... right?... To me it is most hypocritical to say you believe in it in these cases and not others... i mean, i don't believe life starts at conception, so i have no problem at all with rape victims and incest victims, etc, having an abortion... but for someone to actually believe it is murder, and then condone the murder... ? I've believed this for over forty years - either it a baby, life and its murder - or it isn't - how a woman came to be pregnant is a totally separate issue
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Post by marjar on Jan 24, 2011 21:23:54 GMT -5
He's equally responsible, but all the pro-abortion folks on here who are saying it is 100% "a woman's choice" seem to disagree with us on that... How many fathers abandon their children? How many women are raising families, on their own, because the fathers have bailed?
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