Loopdilou
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Post by Loopdilou on Jan 24, 2011 17:38:23 GMT -5
That guy is a deplorable human being and will be prosecuted to within an inch of his life.
Some of us are outraged. I'm even more outraged because of the why of it. Some idiot governor (and I'll wholly admit it was a democratic idiot) told health officials to not inspect abortion clinics for fear that they would be thought of as intimidating women who wanted to seek an abortion.
Lamest excuse I've ever heard. I hope they prosecute the governor and whoever else had anything to do with that decision.. and every health official since then who said, "Oh yah, I think it's a great idea to not inspect medical clinics."
It makes me sick to my stomach.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Jan 24, 2011 17:42:08 GMT -5
If I get a woman pregnant, and she decides to keep the baby, why am I forced to pay child support? You're not...unless you're the one that got her pregnant. Moral: Think gun safety. It's loaded, so be careful where you point that thing. absolutely! it's pretty sad that we still have guys that think this way. rockon - do you have a link to a story for that? I was on vacation, then sick recently and definitely haven't heard about this. that's horrifying, and if what Loop says about no inspections is the reason it was allowed, that's just over the top wrong. wow....there are some sick people out there.
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Post by ed1066 on Jan 24, 2011 17:44:49 GMT -5
Thank you Trae for doing the job your fellow mods are too biased to do...
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Jan 24, 2011 17:47:56 GMT -5
I know I just saw on the news last week that some doctor in New York I believe was caught with freezers full of late term babies but never really saw any public outrage anywhere over it but yet a football player will be in the news for months for abusing dogs. It just seems like we often are so taken with protecting our positions that common sense gets ditched for rhetoric. I think maybe this is the story: www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/23/kermit-gosnell-abortion-c_n_812702.htmlThe guy is going to be prosecuted & going to jail for a long time. Even pro-choicers wouldn't condone his actions. People are outraged - the difference is there will likely be justice in this case (depending on your view) & that the doc wasn't famous to begin with. Vick was already very famous, making it big news & a lot of people were upset because many consider his punishment to be a slap on the wrist for the crimes committed.
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Post by ed1066 on Jan 24, 2011 17:55:32 GMT -5
Really? The fact that the governor failed to implement inspections bothers you more than the fact that a doctor was killing women and children (or just women from your perspective, I guess)?
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Loopdilou
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Post by Loopdilou on Jan 24, 2011 17:59:43 GMT -5
Yes. Because if the governor had actually been doing his job, then countless murders would not have happened.
Keep trying though.
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Post by ed1066 on Jan 24, 2011 18:04:29 GMT -5
Only the one murder, right? Of the mother? You don't count the "fetuses", right?
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Loopdilou
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Post by Loopdilou on Jan 24, 2011 18:31:49 GMT -5
Oh no, that's murder too.. but the same kind as murdering ants, spiders, leeches, etc. The legal kind
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Jan 24, 2011 18:50:00 GMT -5
thanks, Angel. I'm going to read up now. one of the worst things about being sick is that you're pretty much living under a rock as far as the outside world is concerned...
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vonnie6200
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Post by vonnie6200 on Jan 24, 2011 19:15:45 GMT -5
Coming in late...but my two cents Abortion is a very personal issue for anyone considering it.... Even though you teach your daughters the basics...and right and wrong...should one mistake ruin their chance for a happy life? A teenager going through a pregnancy changes HER life....forever. Yes...they can give up the baby for adoption. And a lot of those children are adopted into wonderful homes. But are ALL of them? Or for those that accept the responsibility of trying to raise the kids...how many end up on government assistance plans? I dont envy the parents of a 15 or 16 year old who is pregnant...and the decisions that family must make. But i am not naive or arrogant enough to believe that the decisions should be ANYONE's but their own to make. There are reasonable arguments for both sides of this dilemma, but taking the decision out of the girl's or family's hands is just wrong. It's still a life - adoption is a wonderful opportunity for that life - it gives it a chance. Anyone can have a bad family, naturally or adoptive, but at least it has a chance.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jan 24, 2011 19:24:45 GMT -5
Too few of the women with a mind-set to have an abortion are willing to carry a kid for nine months and then give it away.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Jan 24, 2011 19:27:28 GMT -5
Coming in late...but my two cents Abortion is a very personal issue for anyone considering it.... Even though you teach your daughters the basics...and right and wrong...should one mistake ruin their chance for a happy life? A teenager going through a pregnancy changes HER life....forever. Yes...they can give up the baby for adoption. And a lot of those children are adopted into wonderful homes. But are ALL of them? Or for those that accept the responsibility of trying to raise the kids...how many end up on government assistance plans? I dont envy the parents of a 15 or 16 year old who is pregnant...and the decisions that family must make. But i am not naive or arrogant enough to believe that the decisions should be ANYONE's but their own to make. There are reasonable arguments for both sides of this dilemma, but taking the decision out of the girl's or family's hands is just wrong. It's still a life - adoption is a wonderful opportunity for that life - it gives it a chance. Anyone can have a bad family, naturally or adoptive, but at least it has a chance. quite honestly, do you know how many children there are in foster care? between the couples that come in wanting perfect babies only, and the children that are taken from unfit parents, there are plenty of older children that still need love. you really want to introduce more children to that world?
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Post by ed1066 on Jan 24, 2011 19:32:56 GMT -5
OK, so a baby one day prior to delivery has no more value to you than a leech. Got it...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2011 19:40:13 GMT -5
"It's still a life" No... its the potential for life... it is NOT life... ( Just like all the fertilized eggs you slough off while on birth control pills that make your uterus 'inhospitable' for implantation... )
and i'm with chiver... we need to take care of the ACTUAL lives we have here and help them actualize their potential... before you worry about all the 'squandered potential' of cell masses .....
heck, i'd love to live in a world where there was no abortion... you know what you need to do in order to STOP abortion (hint... it isn't make abortion illegal... that does NOT stop abortion, it just makes it less safe... especially for poor people...) If you want to stop it... you have to change the conditions which correlate with abortion... poverty, lack of education, lack of access to primary care... etc...
But invariably... those people who are most anxious to concern themselves with what other people should do with their uteruses... are also the people who scream and yell at the thought of sex education, poverty prevention and universal health care...
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Loopdilou
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Post by Loopdilou on Jan 24, 2011 19:48:02 GMT -5
Ed - you're not even very good at twisting my words. I've stated numerous times in the roe v. wade threads (which you, at least, have pretended to read) that I believe that abortions after 23 weeks should (as they are) be reserved for only the most extreme cases.
Prior to 23, yes, a baby has no more value to me than a leech - actually, technically, it has no more value to me then say a clown fish to an anemone. Which is to say that a baby is capable of being a symbiotic organism to those that want a baby, to those that do not want a baby it is more of a parasite (parasites are capable of being beneficial to the host, in case you were wondering). Technically it has less value, because it isn't a life (there is a difference between alive and a life, btw)- it is a collection of cells that could become a life if taken to term. Post 23 weeks, as I have stated numerous times as have others, a baby should (and legally can) only be killed in extreme cases - where in abortion saves the mothers life, or spares the child a short, misery filled, life.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Jan 24, 2011 19:56:01 GMT -5
oped, I absolutely agree with you. I wish we lived in a world where abortion wasn't necessary. we have a very long way to go, though.
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Post by lakhota on Jan 24, 2011 20:00:03 GMT -5
So, "I am in favor of continuing Roe vs Wade" wins the poll by a wide margin. No surprise.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jan 24, 2011 20:14:58 GMT -5
So you and the other lib mods are letting post #62 slide? Not that I would expect any better, but I'm just confirming that the personal attack and insult in post #62 by Loopdilou is going to stand based on your decision. Ed-I let this post of yours stay. It should have been deleted but I let it slide. I guess I am going to have to start really cracking down.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2011 20:17:43 GMT -5
www.myfoxdc.com/dpp/news/local/philadelphia-abortion-doctor-accused-of-killing-woodbridge-va-woman-012111Philadelphia Abortion Doctor Accused of Killing Woodbridge Va Woman Updated: Monday, 24 Jan 2011, 4:25 PM EST Published : Friday, 21 Jan 2011, 11:29 PM EST By ROZ PLATER/ myfoxdc WOODBRIDGE, Va. - A Philadelphia abortion doctor is accused of killing a Woodbridge, Virginia woman. Prosecutors say 41 year old Karnamaya Mongar, a recent immigrant and mother of three, died after being overmedicated in an abortion procedure in November of 2009. Dr. Kermit Gosnell ran a West Philadelphia clinic. Prosecutors called it a "House of Horrors.” They say it was filthy, had body parts lying around in garbage bags and that the doctor had unlicensed staff performing medical procedures. They claim he made millions from illegal late term abortions. An attorney for the Mongar family says the woman had spent 18 years in a Nepal refugee camp before moving here in 2009. She discovered she was pregnant and was referred to Gosnell by a D.C. clinic. The family has also filed a wrongful death suit.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2011 20:20:24 GMT -5
And that person also is a monstor krickitt, that will be prosecuted, and an example of how the regulatory system failed and needs to be improved... but just because he did something that was ILLEGAL... does not mean that no one should be able to do what IS legal.
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Post by ed1066 on Jan 24, 2011 20:21:33 GMT -5
So I'll ask again, is it okay from your "moderator's perspective" that Loopdilou called me "insane" in her message #62 on that thread? I'm looking for clarity on this, as you seem to be much more fixated on my posts about your failure to moderate in an unbiased manner than the actual personal attack on me to which I was referring.
Sorry ed-I added my comments to this post by hitting the modify button instead of the quote button.
Tennesseer
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2011 20:22:00 GMT -5
A DC clinic referred her to an abortionist that made millions performing illegal late term abortions?? So much for everybody's thing that late term abortions are illegal in most states. Well, another butcher of viable babies bites the dust. Good.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2011 20:24:18 GMT -5
Sweet heart... the very article you posted SAID it was ILLEGAL.
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vonnie6200
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Post by vonnie6200 on Jan 24, 2011 20:25:02 GMT -5
Ed - you're not even very good at twisting my words. I've stated numerous times in the roe v. wade threads (which you, at least, have pretended to read) that I believe that abortions after 23 weeks should (as they are) be reserved for only the most extreme cases. Prior to 23, yes, a baby has no more value to me than a leech - actually, technically, it has no more value to me then say a clown fish to an anemone. Which is to say that a baby is capable of being a symbiotic organism to those that want a baby, to those that do not want a baby it is more of a parasite (parasites are capable of being beneficial to the host, in case you were wondering). Technically it has less value, because it isn't a life (there is a difference between alive and a life, btw)- it is a collection of cells that could become a life if taken to term. Post 23 weeks, as I have stated numerous times as have others, a baby should (and legally can) only be killed in extreme cases - where in abortion saves the mothers life, or spares the child a short, misery filled, life. I'm not sure that I liked how you said this - but I think we might actually agree here.
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Loopdilou
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Post by Loopdilou on Jan 24, 2011 20:25:23 GMT -5
Think of it this way - do you believe that people should have the right to defend themselves up to and including killing your attacker? I'm going to guess yes. That's one reason for a post 23 week abortion.
I'm pretty sure most of you will disagree with the second half of my reasoning for a post 23 week abortion - mercy. Sorta like assisted suicide for people who are in excruciating pain, or pulling the plug on a comatose patient. Most would argue that those two things are acceptable.
I do believe in restricting abortions post 23 weeks.. but before then a woman should have every right to get rid of the unwanted clump of cells taking root in her uterus.
I, personally, chose not to do it because I realized that I could care for a child if I were to give birth to one. However, I would NEVER EVER presume to tell another woman what she should do with their life.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2011 20:29:53 GMT -5
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Post by lakhota on Jan 24, 2011 20:31:38 GMT -5
We can't allow the religious right to send women back to the Dark Ages.
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Loopdilou
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Post by Loopdilou on Jan 24, 2011 20:32:25 GMT -5
It sure does look like a human being.. sorta.. but the truth of the matter is that even at 23 weeks that baby is unlikely to survive. And even if it does survive, statistically it will have major developmental problems.
Poor thing.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jan 24, 2011 20:35:29 GMT -5
So I'll ask again, is it okay from your "moderator's perspective" that Loopdilou called me "insane" in her message #62 on that thread? I'm looking for clarity on this, as you seem to be much more fixated on my posts about your failure to moderate in an unbiased manner than the actual personal attack on me to which I was referring. LOL Ed-If I see her calling you insane I will delete the post and warn her. Just like if I see you telling someone "You've become a caricature of the hateful, bigoted, bitter liberal, right down to the spittle-flecked misspellings..." will be deleted and you warned also. Fair enough?
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Post by ed1066 on Jan 24, 2011 20:36:17 GMT -5
Right, much more convenient to just kill it. Especially if mom is depressed about being pregnant or doesn't have time to raise a baby. Maybe she'll think twice next time...or maybe not...
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