There is no Canadian Housing Bubble!

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Right, nice try. Go eat some cake decoy, maybe some more moldy vegetables will do you some good...

[decoy409]

Nothing better for you to do but ridicule,call names,mock,poke and believe that you are going somewhere?

Oh well,have a great day all the same!

[moon/Laura]

guys... can we PLEASE dispense with the name calling?? i am so tired of having to say that over and over again...

[decoy409]

Ouch! 10.8 MILLION and counting incoming foreclosures. What will the final tally be?

[lifewasgood]

How did I buy into the TBTF again?? First off TBTF is a coin phase now popular because of the crisis. I love that. Equal for all as long as what, the USA is better than everyone else in the world?

Might want to look at the Classical period in India and how that was interrupted by a little thing called the East India Trading Company.

Now the USA/NA is helping India and China/the world, rebuild because of what our European ancestors did and some people act like it's the worst thing that has ever happened. Hmm maybe there is a REASON for it, that goes back to before your time LIFE! NOT EVERYONE FORGETS!!

Ya, I feel bad for the people that bought into the idea that you can use your home as a bank. That inflated equity because of a overheated housing market was YOUR money. However, that happened because people have FREE WILL to do what they want. Again the story was IT's YOUR MONEY!! Get it?

However, I'm glad that you understand that it will heal eventually and America will go on.

Make no mistake, I despise the one world government, and guys like you that support the idea purely because you believe the USA needs to be brought down to India levels. You have exposed yourself as nothing more than a communist. One World Communist at that!

[decoy409]

life,who is that intended for? I thought the communist talk was suppose to have stopped?

Oh well. In the meantime HUD homes going for $1.00 and in Miwaukee and Michigan and other places you can get some sweet deals as well on Baltic Ave.
Why sales could be up for these areas!


Which would 1/2 a** the sales report today as partial truth.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Life, I'm not even going to report you for calling me a name, I'm a big boy....

Inda was the biggest economy in the world for like 1200 years. What I want to see is everyone have money like we do here in NA and enjoy the freedoms that we do here in NA. Not live under dictatorships and commies. It's not a one world govt, it just everyone in the world being part of the BUSINESS community. You know the opposite of communism. Your equal for all talk, well now....

[decoy409]

A big boy.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Yes unlike you, who has to report anything and everything to big brother.

[decoy409]

Not really but please elaborate for me with some fine examples if you would.

Yes,back that claim!

[decoy409]

Well the discussion is over as to a 2011 housing bottom with a bottom showing up in say,oh about,6 years or so. And that is only if (and a very BIG if at that),if prosecutions start and justice is served in the 10's of thousands of fraud cases allowed to be going on,manufaturing and other re-establishes,and debt is severly raked in which of course would cause massive repercussions added to the ongoing ones.

Oh course that is a veryu hypothetical look as the massive scheming that has transpired around the world would have to be addressed and honestly dealt with by actions and not words as well.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

LOL, the discussion isn't over until Dec 31 2011. This isn't your thread. ;D

[decoy409]

That's great! Not till Dec. 2011 hey. Great! We can keep up on the battle toll here. Thanks!

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

That's what you don't get.. This isn't about who is right.. This is called a Discussion[/i] on the possible 2011 housing bottom[/u]

Right now, after all that distraction, the discussion is about how prices of distressed properties are weighing on average prices. Flow posted an article, on a different thread, that points out; without the distressed sales, prices have bottomed out already, and....

Jul 22, 2011 14:18:45 GMT -5 @taciturnmensan said:

Not residential pro, my business is CRE. If looking at US CRE nationwide, the bottom has passed. The bottom is not defined by professionals as all local markets reaching price lows. It is that point of inflection where after a down-cycle, the balance of rising prices is equivalent to still falling prices.

Plus new home starts jumped in June. So feel free to discuss any of these points.

[lifewasgood]

The distressed sales aren't over with yet and in many locations hasn't even peaked. Again I will tell you many folks are living in homes and not paying mortgages and the banks seem in no hurry to throw them out. Many folks are barely hanging on, hoping for better times.

Get out of the office once in awhile, stop eating FTI hog chow and look for yourself.

[decoy409]

Ouch! bad week for paper. How many million getting ready to hit on the foreclosure block?

And to think they have been keeping 'The NEWS' of commercial on the back burner.

[decoy409]

Say you left something behind thought you could use it over here as it no use to me!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LOL no doubt! They just don't see what's going on do they Vman? Such as.....


Yesterday at 10:13pm, Ahamburger wrote:As the dust settles, we see what will shape the new middle east. Religion, not likley, where is the money in killing in thy name?? Nowhere. It's all about being part of the business world now. Love not war makes more! Some know who to thank..

The Rise of Moderate Islam
www.time.com/time/specials/packag....2084483,00.html

Quote:As we wait for the Salafi leader Kamal Habib at the Cairo Journalists' Union, a sudden panic comes over me. I've just noticed that my translator, Shahira Amin, an Egyptian journalist, is wearing a sleeveless top and that her hair is uncovered. In my experience, Salafis, adherents of a very strict school of Islam, take a dim view of such displays of femininity.

I recall a time in Baghdad when a Salafi preacher cursed me for bringing a female photographer to our interview, and an occasion in the Jordanian city of Salt when another Salafi leaped from his chair and thwacked his teenage daughter on the arm when she accidentally entered the room without covering her face from my infidel eyes.

I've heard reports that Habib is not the hard-liner he was in the 1970s, when he co-founded the radical Egyptian Islamic Jihad, or the 1980s, when he was jailed in connection with the assassination of President Anwar Sadat. He gave up politics after a decade in prison, but in the aftermath of the Arab Spring, he has reinvented himself as a leader of a more moderate party. He has held press conferences at the union, so presumably he's had to make his peace with women who don't cover their hair. But I fear he may draw the line at a sleeveless top.

I needn't have worried. When Habib arrives, he shouts a jolly greeting from across the room and then bounds over. He's wearing a blue blazer and clutching a smart phone. He looks my translator straight in the eye and extends his hand to shake. They exchange complaints about the beastly humidity. Would Shahira like a Pepsi? he asks solicitously.

Only weeks before my arrival in Cairo, Salafis had burned down Coptic Christian churches in the Imbaba neighborhood, perhaps 15 minutes from where we're sitting.......

...........But a few weeks are an eternity in post-Mubarak Egypt. Several Salafi leaders have decided to join the political fray, and they can't afford to let a few thugs make them all look bad. So Habib has decided to organize a big reconciliation meeting with Coptic leaders, and he wants me to know he has no truck with the reactionaries who burned churches. "Khalas. Finished," he says, spreading his hands in a gesture of finality. "The past is the past, and the people who did this terrible thing are from the past. Their time is over."

I had to wonder if Habib's message was custom-made for a Western journalist or whether it offered a glimpse of a new possibility. Over the next few days, in the incipient Arab democracies of Egypt and Tunisia, I find that Islamists of all stripes — from extremist Salafis to members of more orthodox groups like the Muslim Brotherhood — say they are breaking with the past and reinventing themselves as the moderate mainstream. "We can no longer be the party that says 'Down with this' and 'Down with that,'" says Essam el-Erian, a top Brotherhood leader. "The thing we stood against is gone, so now we have to re-examine what we stand for.".......

.......Paranoid rhetoric about threats to Muslim identity have given way to political messaging that could have been lifted from the party platforms of any Western democracy: It's all about jobs, investments, inclusiveness. A new broom to sweep clean decades of corruption. A new dawn of can-do Islamism........

............Under the circumstances, you might expect the Islamists to be reveling in their ascendancy, seeing it as an endorsement of their extreme views. They're doing no such thing. Instead they are herding toward the political center, adopting positions that would be entirely familiar in Western democracies. Leaders of Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood and Tunisia's Ennahda (Renaissance) talk about economic priorities: creating jobs, reducing debt, attracting foreign investment, halting the exodus of skilled labor. There's little talk of Shari'a or of restricting the rights of women or non-Muslim minorities.





Plus....


Jul 22, 2011, 10:34pm, Ahamburger wrote:

How about in Lebanon, they are all about the eurobonds!!

Lebanon Said to Hire Blom Bank, Citigroup to Refinance $950 Million Debt
www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-07-20....50-million.html



Remember, fractional reserve banking is against Shira law.

[decoy409]

Here is some more laundry that you must have forgot to pick up. Just being nice and dropping it off for you.

Why let one's life be defined by fear of economic collapse? Why do people judge others repeatedly with deep seated hatred? Is this hatred good for you?

Here is a man with some answers to these questions.




Fearmongering is a tool of The Beast.

[decoy409]

The dirty laudry is laying in clumps,here ya go. Thought I would be nice and return it to you.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Self Fulfilling Economic Fear Mongering

"I'd like to have a discussion on the extent to which people are able to create economic problems through self fulfilling economic fear mongering. I'm posting this in the conspiracy sub forum because there are only two types of people that are not conspiracy theorists who seem to actively cheer for and hope for economic collapse:

1) Traders who have the capital and financial knowledge to make profit off of wide scale economic panic.
2) People who have some sort of ultra rabid populism ideology going on where they would find pleasure in economic collapse to "bring down" people with more money than them.

But those are very two small groups of people. The vast majority of the group cheering for and actively hoping for economic collapse are all in the conspiracy theorist/woo population.

I have a feeling the initial reaction to this - which was actually my own reaction when thinking about this - is that even if we have a large subset of the population doing everything they can to spread fear and try to bring about economic collapse, the types of people who do this have to little actual power to actually cause it. Most rational, sane people want economic prosperity and understand that even the "little guy" has his 401k in the stock market, and cheering for financial collapse to make the "evil bankers pay" doesn't just hurt the rich.

But while I have little doubt that most people with the capacity to bring about economic collapse through their collective economic decisions don't engage in this sort of fear mongering, that doesn't mean they don't have people (family, friends, etc.) around them who do. If your an average American making 50k a year but are surrounded by friends who hope for economic collapse and fear monger you about it every day, are you really going to make that risky stock investment? Are you going to, instead, buy a car with monthly payments you cannot afford because the end is all coming anyways (or so your friends tell you).

All of this presumes that conspiracy theorists actively hope and want economic collapse and celebrate negative economic news and try to spread fear about doom which is always around the corner. I don't believe there is any question they do this. Go to any conspiracy board ANY day that the DOW is in the negative more than 100 points, and you will see multiple threads of people celebrating that the end is nigh and that its time to stock up on canned goods as end comes closer. For example:
www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread588589/pg1
www.godlikeproductions.com/fo...age1116816/pg1
www.godlikeproductions.com/fo...age1116785/pg1

Here then, is the hypothesis I would like to discuss: Through the collective efforts of the conspiracy theorist community actively spreading fear, they influence lots of individuals to make bad economic decisions. None of the economic actors influenced by this fear are individually powerful enough to change the economy - they are all average Joe types - in fact they must be, because the most educated among us wouldn't fall for the fear mongering. However, through the collective impact of spreading fear to the general population about economic collapse, CTers are able to influence individuals to engage in economic behavior that helps cause additional negative economic impacts. This causes a cycle of fear mongering off of real economic negative news that was caused by the fear mongering to begin with, which spirals out of control.

It seems, at least theoretically, easy for this to occur. Take for example the impact that consumer sentiment numbers have. Consumer sentiment measures the consumer outlook on the economy. Bad consumer sentiment numbers scare investors, because consumers who are fearful about the economy won't spend as much or invest as they would otherwise. Its in the area of consumer sentiment that the cycle of fear mongering would be most powerful.

I got to thinking about all of this because today, consumer sentiment was its lowest since March. I have noted an unusually high amount of economic fear mongering by the CTers in the last few months - more so than usual. The typical CT prophets, like the debunked Webbots project, have been trumpeted as signs of the coming end even more than they usually are.

www.marketwatch.com/story/us-...k=MW_news_stmp"

forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=179284

[decoy409]

This is almost as bad as cleaning up after the kids. hee ya go as you left this behind as well.

The self fulfilling prophecy? It's scary how good it can work. Just think about how many times simple propaganda has been used to incite violence against people. Same but different, you know what I mean?

I think we have seen a bit of it already. Certain posters that started out simply just on the side of hating greed, are now promoting all out anarchy.

Honestly, it's tough to say what effect it has day to day, aside from people missing opportunities because of all the BS. That's the sad part, when people don't make money when they can because of what others say. Especially if it's like it is around here. Everything will crash but invest in gold..

[domeasingold]

Hey Decoy, could you please summerize your point in 25 words or less? Point fingers if you must. I just do not see why Egypt figures into this discussion. I would like to understand your positions but you ramble way too much for anybody to really take you seriously. Most men get to the point to state their case and position. Sometimes I think you live somewhere else or would like too.

[decoy409]

domeasingold, those are questions as to egypt and the rest of that I dropped off above questions to ask verrip and ham as that is the laudry that they dropped off at my Decoy Post.
They had ne relevance for me over their in which that of what I was discussing at the time,so I figured they would fit in over here at hams housing thread all the same.
.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

So as you can see dome, it has nothing to do with the housing discussion. It is merely another feeble attempt at humor.

Another way to Dodge, Dip, Duck, Dive, and Dodge. Apparently the only NEWS that is allowed to be discussed on that thread is news of Americas demise, tearing down the American business structure, how America has caused all the problems of the world, and how the elites in their Ivory towers know that an alien planet or aliens/solar flare/ major Terra event coming, and that this will lead to a restructuring/change...

[smackdown]

"Housing is well........cyclical....regardless the cause or causes"

No it isn't. Prior to the Tax Reform Act, American Residential Housing appreciated along a fairly stable highly traceable path, doubling every 30 years in value. The "handyman special" targeted pocket blight and reconstituted it. Urban housing defaulted on stability only when hyper-sprawl came about. We had a post WWII first ring suburban tract housing boom, a second ring and three rings of custom-built housing that included the razing of farmland to over-build without the proximity job creation that is mandatory for balanced economics.
Today's housing issues can largely be attributed to the Tax Reform Act turning your homestead into an investment vessel and Big Franchise Real Estate homogenizing the condition and functional obsolescence and overshadowing them with social attributes like location location location. Housing pumpers and bad legislation caused the hyper-appreciation. The emergence of Home Depot-type Big Box retailers made it "vogue" to remedy and remodel which allowed scamming empty nesters and double-income no-kids to SQUAT in a BOX without doing a damn thing to it and walk away with a huge profit. By the time this- mostly college-degree'd in paper-pushing generation came about, it had experienced heavy indebtedness for tuition and carried forward hyper-spending on everything to create a false image of prosperity. After Gramm Leach Bliley passed secretly in 1999, banks had wiped out the Free Market Credit Providers and controlled 100% of the industry (again- last time was a bailed fiasco too). Goldman Sachs' Mark to Market facilitation scam allowed banks to perform NO diligence and book no-document credit that went unchecked directly into Wall Street Securities. A marketing scam that represented these shoddy junk securities as integral and pumping them to college-bred programming-fed paper pushers now called CFOs caused an anomaly in pricing so far off course that it collapsed the entire economy. The same homes are still out here, the same people who once lived in them are now struggling or homeless... BOTH CONDITIONS are due entirely to criminal financial manipulation. Sadly, without due attention soon, blight will become more widespread and require a whole scale national infrastructure revival.

In 1989, we saw a glimpse of housing values compromised by bad legislation when suburban homes that had appreciated too quickly, retraced values by 10%, causing some to be over-financed. The condition lasted until 1991 when the first Refinance Boom driven by non-banks began pulling stagnant bank portfolios apart and regenerated cash by freeing homeowners from high-rated bank credit. SOME in the industry noted this and began to fight the commercialization of bank programs and created nonconforming programs that appealed more to private investors. Banks retaliated with Subprime at arm's length (bought by subsidiaries) and reduced nonconforming program integrity to the same shoddy level as it's Agency-grade stuff. Free Market regained dominance and reduced fraud while increasing integrity to it's highest level ever... until the bank-caused scheme in October, 1998 when they collectively collapsed credit facility lines of credit (even though they were fully secured by quality mortgages on real homes by participation interest). In months, the Free Market dried up without capital, was bought for pennies on the dollar, the Gramm Leach Bliley Act got slipped into other legislation and replaced Glass-Steagall (which had effectively stopped financial sector collusion since written decades earlier) and Goldman Sachs not only IPO's out of nowhere but created Mark to Market facilitation.

Housing isn't cyclical... values were compromised by crooked financial wrangling in a sector that has committed terrorism against America.

[lifewasgood]

The housing Market has very little chance of actually recovering in 2011 or 2012.

Why:

Too Many houses on the market.
Too Many houses yet to come on the market
Too Many folks out of work
Too Many folks have seen wages decreased
increases in fuel and food have further reduced household incomes
Too Many folks swimming in debt that will take years to clear
Too Many folks have very bad credit scores
Banks are in no hurry to loan money for residential real estate

2011 will show a loss of value from 6 to 9%
2012 will show a loss yet to be determined.

Housing Market recovery is still in the distant future. Some of the markets in Arizona, California, Nevada will not see price recover for at least a decade but some predict 2 or even 3 decades.

QE is not going to solve the problem, it will only add to the expense line of the very folks we need to buy houses.

The above are reasons why I believe we have a long way to go.

What is your rebuttal?

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Good points life, we will see how it goes. I also found this interesting.

Top 5 housing markets where home prices will grow in 2012
www.dailyfinance.com/2011/08/09/top-5-u-s-housing-markets-where-home-prices-will-grow-in-2012/

[lifewasgood]

If and a Big If DOD is cut, military towns such as San Diego will be hurt not helped in 2012. The best Housing markets today are the military towns because of two war money being poured in. One of DOD's go to strategies in reduced budget years is to freeze change of station orders. Reduction in contractor support for everything you can imagine will also happen. This saves tons of money but hurts the local housing markets.

[decoy409]

life, I get a kick out of what you brought in but others have failed to even whisper about.

"Some 4.2 million mortgage borrowers are either seriously delinquent or have had their cases referred to lawyers to pursue foreclosure auctions, according to LPS Applied Analytics. Of those, two-thirds have made no payments at all for at least a year, and nearly one-third have gone more than two years."

money.cnn.com/2011/06/09/real_estate/foreclosure_squatter/index.htm

This sweeping under the carpet,and that pile of dirt from doing so as discussed a couple of years back,well that pile is really BIG!


And we patiently await the Commercial.

[lifewasgood]

Keeping the fed rate at zero for another two years as broadcast today will not help the housing market. The banks still have no interest in lending for private real estate with little to no return on investment.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Life, there is even less reason for them to put money in the T-bill market now. How about $144 on a 3.89% The banks have liquid. Per Jamie Diamond. What about things like, the keystone XL by Nov.?