How is GOLD not the biggest Ponzi Scheme?

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

I read today again that almost all the gold ever mined is still in existence; and that it could fill two Olympic sized swimming pools.
To me this means that the same gold is being sold over and over again on paper to pay off people who bought in at a lower price, aka Ponzi.
Any thoughts on the topic?

[comokate]

I don't buy "paper" gold. If people have lost faith in a fiat money system, why on earth would they want "paper gold".
Buy physical gold. ( silver too)
Real. Tangible. Portable. ;-)

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

I'm glad to hear that you don't buy EFT's, or other options that are out there for paper metals. Unfortunately, the current path for gold is unsustainable, IMO. The same gold is being sold over and over again; and unlike companies. Gold generates nothing for society, aside from the few industrial uses it has, and of course jewelry.
Basically right now if everyone that owned gold wanted to go physical; things would not end up good. Some people may not have faith in fiat money right now. IMO, that will pass and that will not end good either.

[midwesterner (banned)]

Paper is a ponzi, and source of it's manipulation. It's going mainstream the manipulation. Buy physical, and it when the cats out of the bag and hit's critical mass, it's going to explode. Those holding paper will probably not have much to show. Physical is the way to go. Check out my silver manipulation thread for more details on the manipulation how there is investagations into JP Morgan for holding too many shorts and therefore manipulating the market, never having to deliever or buy silver on the market. Ponzi, and it's falling apart.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Mid you are contradicting yourself big time. You can't have a ponzi fall apart, and the price explode. It's called, look out below!!!

I'm fully aware of the manipulation by the banks in the metals sector. What you fail to realize that your physical gold price is back up by a ponzi, that is selling the same two Olympic sized swimming pools full of gold over and over again. The gold you own physically is part of those pools. So the banks are literally selling your gold to other people on paper.

Your right about one thing it's starting to fall apart. Look for a top in gold in 2011. After that it's going to get "rocky"

[midwesterner (banned)]

Mid you are contradicting yourself big time. You can't have a ponzi fall apart, and the price explode. It's called, look out below!!!

I'm fully aware of the manipulation by the banks in the metals sector. What you fail to realize that your physical gold price is back up by a ponzi, that is selling the same two Olympic sized swimming pools full of gold over and over again. The gold you own physically is part of those pools. So the banks are literally selling your gold to other people on paper.

Your right about one thing it's starting to fall apart. Look for a top in gold in 2011. After that it's going to get "rocky"

Contradicting myself, how so? When it all fall apart the real price will be realized by all, which is nowhere near that real price adjusted for inflation, manipulation, and debt notes out their. I see no contradictions? Two Olymipic sized swimming pools are about right, and silver could possibly be even less to some estimates.

Metals are money, and have always been money, so it's not only an investment that will gain appreciation, it's money in the end. Paper poniz is buying into a fake game, and when the paper shorts fail, and the ETF are found out oversold, or worse not even in the vaults, the ones with physical will be on top.

You obviously don't completely understand this if you think that the physical won't be a moonshot in the end of this fiat game that played over and over again fails horribly.

I would like you to explain why you can't have a ponzi and price explode, if the ponzi is suppression of price, not the overvaluation of the asset. That's not the case, and it's way undervalued.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Contradicting myself, how so?

Really??

When it all fall apart the real price will be realized by all,...Paper poniz is buying into a fake game, and when the paper shorts fail, and the ETF are found out oversold, or worse not even in the vaults, the ones with physical will be on top.

You really don't see how bad this gold thing is going to end. Think about this, from the mid 1980's until 2001 the price of gold was based off of what the jewellers were doing. Again, look for a top in 2011, after that it's going to get "rocky"

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

It's not going to end well for some people.

[rovo]

You really don't see how bad this gold thing is going to end.
What does it matter how it ends? Those stocking up on gold really shouldn't even be concerned with the value of gold in a fiat currency. They have the gold and this is all that matters to them.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

What does it matter how it ends? Those stocking up on gold really shouldn't even be concerned with the value of gold in a fiat currency. They have the gold and this is all that matters to them.

That's how the ponzi ends up good, they won't get burnt, they still got their gold. Even if it's worthless compared to currencies.

[robinking]

I agree with Mid and Rovo.

Mid: because paper may crash and the spot price of gold with it, until people decide to use gold instead of fiat someday. Gold bugs are different the ETF day traders, they hold as a hedge against the inevitable inflation to come... thinking money may be backed by gold and other commodities someday.

Rovo: because of the same. I don't care what spot gold is right now. My gold is for 30 years from now when I may want to retire.

But, Burger is correct in that paper gold is in a bubble and physical gold is linked to it. Once they unlink, the physical may shot to the moon and paper becomes worthless.

[DumDeeDoe]

OK so you guys want to go back to the gold standard.. where all goods and services are paid in gold???

So with our billion dollar trade defict our gold would not just leak out of the country it would flow...
leaving the U.S. with nothing quick.

And where would that gold flow to? hum China,India???

Sounds like a commie plot to me...

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

IMO, if gold went back to a standard to base currency off of; your looking at a lot less than 1,400 oz.

There isn't enough gold to replace the current money supply with it. Therefore, they would have to cut the currency with other metal just to make the coins, and depress the price of gold so that it would be cheaper to make the coins. Basically gold will be cheap again no matter what happens

[bimetalaupt]

Rovo,

The gold thing ended in 1492 with the gold produced in SA going to Spain.. Gold on Parity value was about $3,900/ ounce Troy..
The market has never recovered.. 61% retrenchment also has never been reached!!!

OK..Nobody is talking about CC...

Bi Metal Au Pt

[robinking]

So if money is backed by nothing, then what gives it value? A gold standard doesn't mean we go back to gold coins in our pockets. It mean each dollar we possess has to be worth a certain amount of gold. This gold could be held at Fort Knox again and by audited every 5 years or so. This would handcuff Congress and restore saver's ability to SAVE! It would curtail growth, but so will Obama's new EPA plan to cut emissions. I say cut emissions by rewarding savers instead of making us all poor due to electricity, NG, gasoline all going way up! Our world is going to change, so we can either conserve ourselves by having a more limited monetary base (i.e. gold, silver, copper...) or we can continue down the fiat path and end up with massive, inevitable inflation. It's one or the other. I choose allowing savers to be rewarded.

[bimetalaupt]

Robinking,I
t mean each dollar we possess has to be worth a certain amount of gold.

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Well if that is your defination we are on a gold standard.. and yes it is about $3,900 to the ounce with both gold stores added(33 Liberty and Fort Knox) .. We call it Fractional Reserve though..Well we are now one of the world's largest exporter of gold. Mining is going well and the men in Overalls driving those big yellow "dozer's " are making good money. We call them in the market " Joe Six pack" as they have a bout as much spending as income.. All cash deals.. like a cold one at the bar..

Well it looks like the Swiss,French and Chinese are buying gold like it was the best thing going. If you live in Greece you have to pay a 40% VAT for gold.. Not me.....BTW the USA was the last major country to have a gold standard.

Just a thought,
Bi Metal Au Pt

[DumDeeDoe]

Yes it means that you can cash in a dollar for a dollars worth of gold..... We don't manufacture much in this country anymore. So a gold standard would mean when we buy a clothes pin from China we pay in dollars backed by gold. Which means we transfer our gold to their banks.. SO unless we get our imports/exports on a equal terms and every other nation that we trade with returns to a gold standard... It wouldn't work.

[robinking]

I'm no economist, but I believe something must change. Most people believe our course is unsustainable, so when a major crisis occurs, and it will, we'll be in deep trouble. I had an epiphany yesterday as I watched my son's open their presents. The FED is doing exactly what they feel they must do and that's thrown everything, including the kitchen sink, at the problem. We're "all-in" and waiting for the river card. But, we're drawing dead in my opinion. Simply speaking, we need to sell more than we buy, because our trading partners won't accept counterfeit money forever. When it ends, and it will, it'll end badly.

I say we allow foreigners to buy land, companies, commodities in America with all their dollars, but charge them massive property taxes and income taxes for the privilege of "owning" us. Once they see we are still in charge, they'll sell these assets back to us at a discount or simply make less off of OUR labor. Someone put it well when they said our labor is our wealth and money is just a means of exchanging wealth.

We need to protect American sovereignty, i.e. the Constitution from globalists (and I'm not trying to stoke a conspiracy debate here). There are NWO globalists all around in world leadership positions out in the open. They believe one world government will lead to world peace, which is a noble goal, but peace at what cost? Peace on your knees is not FREEDOM! Peace without transparency is not peace, but rather a lie! But, to believe we should never transition into one world government is foolish. It's like believing the colonies should have remained separate. We need to learn from past mistakes and protect freedom. We need to learn from past monetary mistakes and protect people's wealth. I believe a gold standard of some sort would be a start. Economists can work out the fractional reserve issues and such, but we need a sound monetary system backed by something. I believe we're heading for that, which is why gold is being bought up in droves by world central banks. Once the financial balloon pops, we'll have crisis and then a world currency backed by gold, silver, oil... Where America will stand in all of this has yet to be determined.

[neohguy]

Dec 23, 2010 10:38:55 GMT -5 rovo said:

You really don't see how bad this gold thing is going to end.
What does it matter how it ends? Those stocking up on gold really shouldn't even be concerned with the value of gold in a fiat currency. They have the gold and this is all that matters to them.

I agree with Rovo on this. Most of our goldbugs are not trading gold. They are accumulating it.
I do agree with Prechter, Stoneleigh, and Ilargi about gold. Don't get stuck in a predicament where you have to sell it for pennies on the dollars because you need cash to buy food. Gold may have its day in the sun but it probably won't be tomorrow. Don't put all your eggs in one basket imo.
Bubble busts, whether stocks, housing, gold, whatever, are not nearly as painful to the ones that don't have to sell as it is to the ones that were overly dependent on perpetual increases.

[Deleted]

Gold on paper is a bad investment, physical gold is marginally better I suppose, though if I had a choice I'd rather have canned food than physical gold. If there is a true economic collapse, is there really going to be a demand for shiny metal? Hmmm.....

[midwesterner (banned)]

So if money is backed by nothing, then what gives it value? A gold standard doesn't mean we go back to gold coins in our pockets. It mean each dollar we possess has to be worth a certain amount of gold. This gold could be held at Fort Knox again and by audited every 5 years or so. This would handcuff Congress and restore saver's ability to SAVE! It would curtail growth, but so will Obama's new EPA plan to cut emissions. I say cut emissions by rewarding savers instead of making us all poor due to electricity, NG, gasoline all going way up! Our world is going to change, so we can either conserve ourselves by having a more limited monetary base (i.e. gold, silver, copper...) or we can continue down the fiat path and end up with massive, inevitable inflation. It's one or the other. I choose allowing savers to be rewarded.

Couldn't have said it better Robin. I don't understand why those against Gold standard thing we must pass around gold coins for each transaction? Or there is not enough? It all will work itself out, and monitary units for will reflect this or that much in all metals, coper, nickel, silver, gold, ect.

[neohguy]

I'm pretty much in dollars at this time because I think they are still good in the medium term. Do I think that all fiat currency die eventually? Yes. Do I think that after this happens that the only alternative will be metals? No.
I've read a lot of thoughtful posts by our PM enthusiasts over the years. I think something is missing but I can't put my finger on it.

[midwesterner (banned)]

I'm pretty much in dollars at this time because I think they are still good in the medium term. Do I think that all fiat currency die eventually? Yes. Do I think that after this happens that the only alternative will be metals? No.
I've read a lot of thoughtful posts by our PM enthusiasts over the years. I think something is missing but I can't put my finger on it.

This is a good discussion and many ways to look at it. The makers of "Money Masters" and "Secret of Oz" also don't think gold standard is the way to go, considering the bankers will just control that too.

My Personal feelings are that gold and other metals my have to be used again to gain confidence in currencies, and would at least perserve wealth, gain in appreciation, or take us from one money system to the next. Gold has played a long role in money for centuries, and has value in an of itself. Whatever the outcome, it's in a bull-market because of a currency crisis we face, this is what some members here have not considered. They see Dow Jones up, up, and up but can't put two and two together seeing this is not normal nor is it healthy for an economy.

Gold standard of not, it's our jobs as citizens to make sure we have a sound money system, whatever that may be, without interference of banking cartels and industry, and free from corporate interests. We the people need to have checks and balances on how it's audited, and how we control the supply of it. Many things to discuss relating to this topic, and many viewpoints. I think this could use it's own thread, but one thing is for certain, banking interests need to go and the Federal Reserve needs to be reevaluate and audited.

I think though having a plan in place, which we at MT could have some influence, in what to do when the dollar is devalued or hyper-inflated. Doing this same fiat banking controlled system all over again on a global scale will just be same misery.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

We call it Fractional Reserve though..Well we are now one of the world's largest exporter of gold. Mining is going well and the men in Overalls driving those big yellow "dozer's " are making good money. We call them in the market " Joe Six pack" as they have a bout as much spending as income.. All cash deals.. like a cold one at the bar..

Bruce you always know just what to say!!

I'm pretty much in dollars at this time because I think they are still good in the medium term. Do I think that all fiat currency die eventually? Yes. Do I think that after this happens that the only alternative will be metals? No.

I agree neoh, I'm glad you posted that thought. I have been thinking about something for a while now and this is a perfect lead into it. Again these are just my thoughts.

A lot of people say that printing money and central banks don't work. What if they can until "we" can find a better solution. It's pretty hard to argue that the last 300 years of central banks growing around the world, has a worse human rights record than the 1700+ before.

The west has had them the longest and we have it the best as far as human rights goes. In China, and other places. IF the other places had houses, computers, and electricity that is. This forum wouldn't be like it is, and some people on the old site would have been locked up for talking like they were.

It really is possible that the Earth has given us the means and ideas to give everyone freedom, and teach them to be responsible with their money. The banksters need more consumers to keep growing profits. The web has given us the ability to expose atrocities!!!

The ability to print money maybe the ultimate balance to the greed part of human nature. It's up to "we" the people to teach everyone that controlling your money is how your control your life. Not letting your money control you!! If everyone started saving money and getting out of debt. We wouldn't have a debt based system!!

Again just my thoughts.

[decoy409]

ahamburger, as it all on this plane of life GOLD is indeed no more than a ILLUSION of wealth. The cash out for me is just before the final rekoning day of the DEBT NOTE.
The DEBT NOTE 'will' be trounced into it's death and GOLD along with SILVER will be the nails for it's final demise in the world of MONETARY WEALTH.
As we see the interest rates expand across the board in and out of town all the sooner this will occur. Or it may be quite possible that with the recent movement of our U.S. nuclear ship into the NK waters, that indeed this could be the changer.
Why then we simply do not need to concern ourselves with DEBT NOTES, GOLD, SILVER. Crappy thought but one that should not be dismissed given the extrordinary circumstances that have arose since 9/11.
It will take a Historical Magnitude Event to stop this free fall in which the world is in.

[robinking]

If everyone started saving money and getting out of debt. We wouldn't have a debt based system!!

I agree, which is why I bought metals and hard commodities. Savers are being punished by inflation right now. I bought a small bag of Hershey's mini for stockings at Wal-Mart for $6! Don't tell me there's no inflation. Without decent returns on CDs and savings, the thrift minded are being told to spend or gamble in the market. ALL investment advisers say never invest in stock with money meant for use in the next 5 years or if you're retired and on a fixed income! And I'm not talking about IRAs. This can't end well, unless some new invention arrives and quick!

We need cheap fuel. Cheap oil is why we had the 20th century boom. The FEDs role can be debated, but cheap fuel along with giant leaps in efficiency brought about all the prosperity we saw last century. We're seeing a leveling out effect now, and unless cold fusion, some miracle anti-gravity tech or some other space age invention comes about, we're in trouble. Population growth is straining the Earth's capacity and soon nationalist movements will erode gains we've seen in world trade and peace. Hungry people do desperate things.

I bought gold as a hedge against the inflation I feel is here and will become undeniable in the near future. The strain of deficit spending will soon cause a collapse of confidence in the dollar. The crisis is Europe has given us a stay of execution. Recent evidence points to the FED as the culprit in driving down the Euro; via loans to offshore entities who became the so called "bond vigilantes".

My FOOD, alcohol, guns, bullets, household necessities and more are meant to be a bridge into the next phase of human history. My gold and silver are ways to protect my wealth. I feel strongly this PONZI monetary/debt based system has almost run it's course. Hopefully I'm wrong, but my faith in God and belief He has woken me up has convinced me otherwise.

[decoy409]

robinking, nice post,

#26 Quote:
I bought gold as a hedge against the inflation I feel is here and will become undeniable in the near future. The strain of deficit spending will soon cause a collapse of confidence in the dollar. The crisis is Europe has given us a stay of execution. Recent evidence points to the FED as the culprit in driving down the Euro; via loans to offshore entities who became the so called "bond vigilantes".

Of course it will and to think other at this point would be ludicrous.

[Tesla_DC-meme]

To me this means that the same gold is being sold over and over again on paper to pay off people who bought in at a lower price, aka Ponzi.


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Not to worry...there is one born every minute.
If you don't gain on this bubble...you can catch the next one.

[midwesterner (banned)]

Its not a question of will it...as opposed to when will it?

Got some insider info Frankie? Why don't you for once on these boards give us a write up about why it will go down??? What is your purpose? Who do you work for? You get paid to pump all day long? Your on here a lot, saying nothing much other than Gold bad, Down jones good. Plenty of time to do so also.

What's your angle. Who's the insider connection you have? Speak up, we listening. You have been exposed Frankie, time to fess up.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Not to worry...there is one born every minute.

You can't change nature.

Decoy, Robin. The invention is the Internet. The idea of freedom is alive a well. The Chinese dream was recently described as basically the American dream. Lets see if NK can get away with letting millions of people starve again with the world watching!

China’s North Korea Shift Helps U.S. Relations
www.nytimes.com/2010/12/24/world/asia/24diplo.html?src=mv

South Korea calls for new six-party talks with North
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12087986

S. Korea seeks global support for unification with North
malaysianmirror.com/media-buzz-detail/10-foreign/51318-s-korea-seeks-global-support-for-unification-with-north

There are innovations happening all of the time. I'll say it again. Recycling is going to be huge. We have no idea how much power we can get from the wind and current!

Psst ... There's a Great Future in Bio Plastics!
www.bloggingstocks.com/2010/12/17/psst-theres-a-great-future-is-in-bio-plastics/

Being civilized has caught on.