Health Reform by the Numbers

[privateinvestor]

In the Senate, Majority Leader Harry Reid has said the legislation will not see the light of day there, although Republicans will seek ways to force a vote.


www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41149463/ns/politics-capitol_hill/?GT1=43001

Lakhota you asked for links so why not read them and find someone else to debate or swap cheap shots with..


Are you on medication, or what?

What do your incessant cheap shots have to do with this debate?? I have more important things to do than get in a mud slingin contest with you so BYE

[b2r]

26 States Join Suit Against Obama Health Law

PENSACOLA, Fla. -- Six more states joined a lawsuit in Florida against President Obama's health care overhaul on Tuesday, meaning more than half of the country is challenging the law.

www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/01/18/states-join-obama-health-care-lawsuit-fla/

[lakhota]

Republicans will seek ways to force a vote

How? Second Amendment remedies? How can the Senate Republicans FORCE a vote on health care repeal, especially if Harry Reid won't even bring it to the floor for debate/vote?

Nazis do not control the Senate!

[sanityjones]

Jan 19, 2011 20:36:54 GMT -5 @lakhota said:

Republicans will seek ways to force a vote

How? Second Amendment remedies? How can the Senate Republicans FORCE a vote on health care repeal, especially if Harry Reid won't even bring it to the floor for debate/vote?

Maybe they'll pull a Democrat and attach it to a must have budget item, or another gay rights bill, or even the military budget, or better yet another year of unemployment bill, LOL. I seem to remember the Dems forcing a lot of votes that way. Maybe they'll even pull a chicken little and say something like, "if we don't rescind this RIGHT NOW the whole global economy will evaporate by morning".......... Maybe they could do that.

[deziloooooo]

To much reading.

No matter what they say, methinks it's you they are thinking of on the new posting rules of articles posted. I told you were going to get caught and in trouble but noo, never listen to anyone.
Well wait until your father gets home young man.

[fairlycrazy23]

Hopefully the mandate in the bill will be voted unconstitutional and then some legal "mumbo jumbo I can't remember happens" means that because the mandate is so integral to the bill that the whole thing is null and void.

But certainly the minority has ways to try and force the majority to do things in the Senate, I don't think they will use them, but the minority could say we will be a big pain in the ass until you bring it to a vote.
Also this:

[lakhota]

but the minority could say we will be a big pain in the ass until you bring it to a vote.

Seriously, just HOW could the minority be a bigger "pain in the ass" than it has been since Obama became president?

[fairlycrazy23]

Call a role call vote on everything

[lakhota]

GOP Congressman Dismisses Concerns Over Preexisting Conditions: 'Minor Thing'

Rep. Steve King (R-Iowa) claimed Wednesday that he wasn't worried about eliminating the popular preexisting conditions provision of the health care bill through the current GOP effort to repeal the law.

A Department of Health and Human Services study released this week found that up to 50 percent of Americans under age 65 may have preexisting health conditions that would, without the current language of the health insurance reform law, allow insurers to reject them. According to the Affordable Care Act's benchmark, set for full implementation in 2014, a predicted total of 129 million people with preexisting conditions will all be able to receive insurance despite their medical history.

www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/19/steve-king-preexisting-conditions_n_811210.html

[fairlycrazy23]

How did the number just suddenly rise so high, 129million far exceeds the number of people they said would be helped by the OC.

[deziloooooo]

I can't believe I am quoting the man or at least para phrasing his comments .
I did spend time watching his show but Beck said last night it's about time the Congress settle down and start trying to solve these problems that face us and get away from issues that mean nothing or for the moment are not solvable.

Some of those was the the discussions on Palin, the talk about civility the lack of contributing etc....
I would suggest the time spent on the health care , the over throw of .... The Republican controlled House did what they said they would..bring up a vote on repeal. Because of their control it was passed. So be it they did their political thing..made their point.

"In the meantime, Republicans clearly relished the day". your correct P. I. Fine have a ball for a day, celebrate at happy hour.

"But certainly the minority has ways to try and force the majority to do things in the Senate, I don't think they will use them, but the minority could say we will be a big pain in the ass until you bring it to a vote"

They could but there is so much to do . I just hope enough of them see that it is non productive, wasteful , even realize their constituentts would not accept that as being poductive and it would not happen.



Reid will not bring it to the floor and if it was necessary, it won't , the President would veto a repeal.

So do we spend two years as this item as the focus?

I would hope they would now start on the real problems on the deficit, tax reforms, things brought up by the Bi Partison committee on the deficit and ideas to consider to get the house back in order.

Obama saying he will be looking at laws passed that are holding back businesses and are detrimental and those found will by executive order get rid of them,{By the way for every one he finds and takes action on there will be a out cry by those effected, by legislatures because of favorite lobbies / lobbyist pressuring , and that will come from both sides by the way.

Health initiative repeal, it is not happening in the next two years, after that we'll see.

Since more parts of the legislation will be in effect it will have to be seen how easy or hard it will be to do so.
If any time is spent on the legislation, I would like to see Bi Partisan tweaking of the passed legislation though as a realist, I think those who are opposed would find that would lend legitimacy to the legislation so in spite , even though they/many of them, know it's a good idea , will not take part.{sigh party of No again, lordy no please}

My opinion of course.

[lakhota]

Eric Cantor dares Harry Reid to hold repeal vote

House Majority Leader Eric Cantor isn’t one to hold his feelings back — especially when it comes to Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid.

On Tuesday, the Virginia Republican threw a little more fuel on the fire, suggesting Reid (D-Nev.) was afraid to actually bring up the health care repeal vote in the Senate.

“If Harry Reid is so confident that the repeal vote should die in the Senate then he should bring it up for a vote if he’s so confident he’s got the votes,” Cantor said.

Reid’s office rejected the idea.

“Not only would repeal not pass, but according to a poll by AP over the weekend, three out of four people don’t want it to,” Reid spokesman Jon Summers said. “Why? Because full repeal means raising taxes on small businesses, reopening the Medicare donut hole, and putting insurance companies back in charge of your health care.”

www.politico.com/news/stories/0111/47762.html

[fairlycrazy23]

Well, that seems like even more reason to let it come to a vote.

And actually I think insurance companies are for the bill, after all it is now the law of the land that you have to buy there product.

[lakhota]

Senate Democrats may be spineless, but I don't believe they're that dumb to allow a little twerp like Cantor to bait them.

I still remember Cantor lying about his Richmond office being shot at, which according to the police report was a random shot that almost came straight down out of the sky with just enough force to penetrate the window but not the blind, and coming to a rest next to the window.

[deziloooooo]

Jan 19, 2011 22:01:18 GMT -5 @lakhota said:

Eric Cantor dares Harry Reid to hold repeal vote

House Majority Leader Eric Cantor isn’t one to hold his feelings back — especially when it comes to Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid.

On Tuesday, the Virginia Republican threw a little more fuel on the fire, suggesting Reid (D-Nev.) was afraid to actually bring up the health care repeal vote in the Senate.

“If Harry Reid is so confident that the repeal vote should die in the Senate then he should bring it up for a vote if he’s so confident he’s got the votes,” Cantor said.

Reid’s office rejected the idea.

“Not only would repeal not pass, but according to a poll by AP over the weekend, three out of four people don’t want it to,” Reid spokesman Jon Summers said. “Why? Because full repeal means raising taxes on small businesses, reopening the Medicare donut hole, and putting insurance companies back in charge of your health care.”

www.politico.com/news/stories/0111/47762.html

LOL, He's playing the ole "I dare ya to " game, we used to do it on the playground. mmmm now that I think about it, congress, kids acting naughty , at playground...mmm yep fits. ;D

Reids response should be a smiley charecter I brought up to moon, she actually kind of liked the idea but knowing the children in her new playground also knows how the kids here play so regrettably..."Hey come on moon. I dare ya "

[fairlycrazy23]

A bill has passed the House of Representatives and been sent to the Senate, so i think it is a little more than just a I dare you.

He doesn't like a bill that he indicates has no chance to pass the Senate so is not going to bring it to a vote, would he bring a bill he didn't like that he thought DID have a chance to the floor for a vote?

[deziloooooo]

Jan 19, 2011 23:05:02 GMT -5 fairlycrazy23 said:

A bill has passed the House of Representatives and been sent to the Senate, so i think it is a little more than just a I dare you.

He doesn't like a bill that he indicates has no chance to pass the Senate so is not going to bring it to a vote, would he bring a bill he didn't like that he thought DID have a chance to the floor for a vote?

Well my last initial prediction was off by 100%, Lieberman is not running in 2012, thought he woluld so lets see of I can even it up.

I predict he will follow up with what he has said, it goes to the senate, it will not be brought to the floor, it will die a death.
If he brought it to the floor , and the senate did pass it, Obama would veto it.

Politically and after being so involved in passing it, he isn't going to allow that.

Now as I said above..you feel , with all the problms we have, this one , which will not be dealt with now, should be the one to concentrate all the verbal on for the next two years

[privateinvestor]

Jan 19, 2011 19:10:17 GMT -5 @lakhota said:

Why don't you try being factual instead of "smelling"...?

Also, I would appreciate you keeping your "nazi" stuff on your own thread.

[privateinvestor]

Jan 19, 2011 20:36:54 GMT -5 @lakhota said:

Republicans will seek ways to force a vote

How? Second Amendment remedies? How can the Senate Republicans FORCE a vote on health care repeal, especially if Harry Reid won't even bring it to the floor for debate/vote?

Nazis do not control the Senate!

[/i]

Also, I would appreciate you keeping your "nazi" stuff on your own thread.Read more: notmsnmoney.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=politics&thread=1925&page=2#ixzz1Ba96uoHi



Once again an important subject Re: Repealing of Health Care by both Congressional Dems and Republicans has deteriorated to another throw away thread with a lot of nothingness

I would think if you want to start a thread at least try to encourage debating the topic and not just posting a lot of nonsense leading to nowhere ...

[jkapp]

What government bill/program has ever NOT increased the deficit? Even Cash For Clunkers had to have more money funneled into it. To think any program created by a mis-managed, incompetent, spend-happy government will reduce the deficit is not only naive, but just plain idiotic.

These estimates by the CBO take into account receiving the exact amount of taxes/fees in revenue (part of it the 1099 legislation that everybody agrees should be taken out but no one has done it yet). The problem with estimates, especially government ones, is they ALWAYS overestimate revenues and ALWAYS underestimate expenses.

[jkapp]

Jan 19, 2011 20:36:54 GMT -5 @lakhota said:

Republicans will seek ways to force a vote

How? Second Amendment remedies? How can the Senate Republicans FORCE a vote on health care repeal, especially if Harry Reid won't even bring it to the floor for debate/vote?

Nazis do not control the Senate!

You're right...it is controlled by totalitarian communists like Reid.

[jkapp]

Jan 19, 2011 21:33:02 GMT -5 @lakhota said:

GOP Congressman Dismisses Concerns Over Preexisting Conditions: 'Minor Thing'

Rep. Steve King (R-Iowa) claimed Wednesday that he wasn't worried about eliminating the popular preexisting conditions provision of the health care bill through the current GOP effort to repeal the law.

A Department of Health and Human Services study released this week found that up to 50 percent of Americans under age 65 may have preexisting health conditions that would, without the current language of the health insurance reform law, allow insurers to reject them. According to the Affordable Care Act's benchmark, set for full implementation in 2014, a predicted total of 129 million people with preexisting conditions will all be able to receive insurance despite their medical history.

www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/19/steve-king-preexisting-conditions_n_811210.html

Which is why the Reps want to repeal and REPLACE...I haven't heard any Reps say that they don't want pre-existing conditions included in reform...have you?

[zipity]

They are going to add an additional tax on manufacturers of medical equipment and supplies. Sounds good does it not? Well who do you think in the final equation is going to pay that tax? Not so good eh.

The healthcare law does impose a 2.3% excise tax on non-exempted medical device manufacturers. The healthcare law also expands the market for those same manufacturers by over 30 million people here in the US. No manufacturer is going to be happy about having to pay a new excise tax however none of these manufacturers are going to complain about the 30 million new customers that will be buying their devices. The good news is that the cost of the excise tax is unlikely to be passed on the the consumer because most of these devices will be purchased by big buyers like Medicare, Medicaid, the Veterans Administration and private insurance companies, who all have established fee schedules for the purchases.

But those saying it's a good idea is at its highest level since September 2009, and those saying it's a bad idea is at its lowest level since June 2009.

This is very interesting. So the number of people who said the healthcare law was a bad idea was a lot higher at the time when the discussion was revolving around death panels. Then perhaps what we really need isn't to repeal the law but to address the mis-information being circulated about the law. The CBO has put out a lot of information about the law which is being dismissed, not necessarily addressed, by Fox and friends. It would be real nice to put representatives of the CBO in a room with republican nay sayers and let them have it out on national TV. THEN once accurate information is in the hands of the public, perhaps you could take a poll that would actually reflect the public's view on the law.

[/size=2]Facts.....repeal of health care is both a dem and repub issue.[/size][/quote]

Fact....of the 193 democrats in the house of representatives 1.5% voted with the republicans to repeal. I wouldn't say that makes it a BIG issue for the democrats.

It would be nice to see an honest, open discussion on the healthcare law, unfortunately that's unlikely because the republicans don't seem to have any facts to backup their position. Might as well go back to death panels.

[privateinvestor]

Republicans will try to chip away at
Obama’s healthcare plan but the best chance
of overturning it may be in the courts. There
are a series of legal challenges to the reform,
one of which might end up in the Supreme
Court toward the end of 2011.


Read more: notmsnmoney.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=politics&thread=1948&page=1#ixzz1BaNtt2wI

[handyman2]

Zipity I am afraid you do not understand the medical equipment and device system. First hospitals, clinics and doctors offices purchase very expensive Diagnostic and surgical equipment which some cost a million plus. The devices paid for by medicare medicaid and insurance companies is not free to the public. Someone pays, where do you think they get the money? Eventually the public through tax increases or premium costs. Just because you do not write the check do not think you are not paying for it. The more I read here it becomes more and more apparent most have no idea how the financial side of the healthcare system works
Keep in mind this tax is an add on to taxes they already pay.

[b2r]

Lakhota talking point.

GOP Congressman Dismisses Concerns Over Preexisting Conditions: 'Minor Thing'

Rep. Steve King (R-Iowa) claimed Wednesday that he wasn't worried about eliminating the popular preexisting conditions provision of the health care bill through the current GOP effort to repeal the law.

Now what the man really said.

[rockon]

zipity, Kind of strange to want an open and honest debate on health care reform after it is in place. If that would have happened before it was shoved through maybe we wouldn't have ended up in this mess of a bill.

[jkapp]

Jan 20, 2011 11:15:25 GMT -5 rockon said:

zipity, Kind of strange to want an open and honest debate on health care reform after it is in place. If that would have happened before it was shoved through maybe we wouldn't have ended up in this mess of a bill.

Agreed

[deziloooooo]

With all the rhetoric , the anti, the pro that is going on both in the media and liitle places like these boards, I read in my paper yesterday , Sun Sentenal, a story on the repeal attempt , the following, true story, that got to me. I know there are many explanations that can be put forth, and that some may go along the lines of, "to bad but.., sorry to hear this but , well you can't save every one but.." and so on, but it just shows that there is a human face to this , a real happening that can effect all of us, though I pray for all here that it doesn't happen , though the chance of that happening..., and understand it is only ONE case but..:

Derrick Wells , 43, of Lake worth said the new law helped save his 21 year -old dauuhter, who suffered from kidney failure. He pointed to the to a provision to keep children up to age 26 on their insurence plans.

"The cost of a kidney transplant and Kidney treatmentwould be in the hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollers, something that I couldn' bear", he said.

"I wouldn't have be able to have it covered . She would just be lost. It's really , really heartbreaking but at the same time it gives me a spirit of optimism that something's been done to help."

Thanks to the new law, he said, his daughters thrice weekly dialysis and the kidney transplant she needs are covered . If her condition persists beyond 26, she won't be precluded from getting other coverage because if a pre exhisting health problem.

Nothing more, just one story out of millions but to me it says a lot. There was a need for the bill, in my opinion.
If it needs to be tweaked, improved, modified , then it should be looked at. I see one political side just attacking because it wasn't their program, they are useing it to attempt to get rid of one party over looking the fact that there are real people like Mr. Wells out there, a good many who belong to their own party.
Let them go to those people and say . "Real sorry to hear of you and your daughters misfortune, I rally am, but I have to tell you, it's the breaks of the game , it's life, she will have to die."

Sounds cruel and I am over dramatizing it you may say. Possible. The words , though some one was going to have to talk to Mr. Wells, suggest alternatives , some type of hope, offer better words most likely, but actually in the end, his daughter would die.

[rockon]

There are many options in America already for treatment of the case like mentioned by Derrick Wells. Him suggesting that his daughter would have been denied treatment if it weren't for Obama is probably not realistic however it's his story and there may be some truth that it is better for all them with the new law. Hopefully everyone else realizes that this law doesn't make it free, it just means that the working American will pay for it and it means either your premiums will go up, the deficit will increase or they will have to cut off somebody else's benefit that will have an equally compelling story to tell. Not sure when we started categorizing 26 year olds as children but thats a different topic.