Obama admin allows terrorists to fly flag in DC

[safeharbor37]

"Israel is a country...................and Palestine was, before Israel decided to squat."
I believe that the best Palestine has done in modern history is be considered a protectorate. It has been subject to foreign control since at least Islam came into existence and I don't think there was ever an independent country named Palestine.
Palestine ; Arabic: فلسطين‎ Filasṭīn, Falasṭīn, Filisṭīn) is a conventional name used, among others, to describe a geographic region between the Mediterranean Sea and the Jordan River,. search.yahoo.com/search?p=palistine&ei=UTF-8&fr=moz35

[deziloooooo]

Should the Palestinians have their own State? IMO..Yes.

Should they have a tiny part of Jerusalem as their Capital, to lend legitimacy to their State as a Viable center of their State, a place for their Government to meet, welcome visitors , show the world they are legitimate and should be treated as such....Yes

Should they then have control as a State, of the Dome of the Rock, exclusive control? ...No, not now, In a period of time, say 40 years or so..{will explain the 40 years} it should be revisited. For now, as a realist , it could become to tenacious and hurt the healing process, there is so much history and bad blood here, it will be unproductive to start off that way.
About the 40 years the Lord had the ancient Israeli's wander in the desert, till those who came out of Egypt were gone so a new Israeli could enter the land of Canaan , that might be appropriate, then the history of what went down , a decision could be made.

Legitimate borders should be discussed, possible swapping areas that are so heavily populated Palestinian now for like areas notn populated as much in the West bank, there are many, so to keep Israel as it should be a Jewish state and allowing the Palestinians, many of them who are in limbo now to be under the rule of their own, though if any want to Stay as Israeli citizens they should be allowed to do so and move to another area of Israel.

Gaza...that is another story, though if Hamas and the Palestinian authority could come to a consensus as to a two party State or as many as they want, similer to Israel, that's their business.

Israel would have the right to defend itself as of now.

The Palestinians would not, even though a independent state , be allowed to have large Military. Self defense for political reasons and law protection of course, but not as a state that could threaten alone or by alliances , Israel.

They , Israeli's to tiny a State, to vulnerable, are giving up a lot and that they don't need on their door step. Hope fully the Palestinians would want the same, enough all ready with the blood shed.

As far as working together , for many they are now, West bank, and for those who don't want to, so be it.
Forty years from now..who knows. Might have a Palestinian Falafel chain as popular in Israel as McDonald's is here.

[ed1066]

Dezi,

You seem earnest enough, but I think you are being very naive in regards to what the PA actually wants. The PA is governed by Hamas, an organization they legally elected to run their government. Here is an extract from Hamas' organizational charter (like their constitution):

"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it." (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory).

"The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Muslim generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. "

"There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors."

"After Palestine, the Zionists aspire to expand from the Nile to the Euphrates. When they will have digested the region they overtook, they will aspire to further expansion, and so on. Their plan is embodied in the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion", and their present conduct is the best proof of what we are saying."

I'm including a link to the entire charter if you want to read it. If you read the quote above, you noticed the reference the charter makes to "Protocols of the Elders of Zion". This is a notoriously anti-Semitic document (proved to be a forgery), which purports to expose the cabal of Jewish leaders who want to take over the world and enslave Muslims and everyone else. It's ridiculous.

So, basically, this is why I have very low regard for anyone who supports the Palestinian "cause", because, in doing so, you are supporting Hamas and their violent, bigoted hatred of Israel, Jews and Christians who understand the importance of a Jewish homeland.

Link to Hamas charter: www.mideastweb.org/hamas.htm

[workpublic]

unfortunately dez, once the "palestinian" state was created and all those things you suggest were handed to them, they would still try to destroy israel.

[deziloooooo]

Jan 20, 2011 17:19:51 GMT -5 @ed1066 said:

Dezi,

You seem earnest enough, but I think you are being very naive in regards to what the PA actually wants. The PA is governed by Hamas, an organization they legally elected to run their government. Here is an extract from Hamas' organizational charter (like their constitution):

"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it." (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory).

"The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Muslim generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. "

"There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors."

"After Palestine, the Zionists aspire to expand from the Nile to the Euphrates. When they will have digested the region they overtook, they will aspire to further expansion, and so on. Their plan is embodied in the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion", and their present conduct is the best proof of what we are saying."

I'm including a link to the entire charter if you want to read it. If you read the quote above, you noticed the reference the charter makes to "Protocols of the Elders of Zion". This is a notoriously anti-Semitic document (proved to be a forgery), which purports to expose the cabal of Jewish leaders who want to take over the world and enslave Muslims and everyone else. It's ridiculous.

So, basically, this is why I have very low regard for anyone who supports the Palestinian "cause", because, in doing so, you are supporting Hamas and their violent, bigoted hatred of Israel, Jews and Christians who understand the importance of a Jewish homeland.

Link to Hamas charter: www.mideastweb.org/hamas.htm

-----------------------------------------------------
Ed on this I am not naive. I am quite familier with the politicals of the area and the history too.

I went back to see what I posted. I was referring to the Palestinians, and did mention in one line the Palestinian Authority and Hamas , having to come to terms , their business, and when referring to a peace with the Palestinians I am referring to the "Palestinian Authority " who's leader is Mahmoud Abba's, elected President in I think 2005, believe his term has expired, not sure there, but is still assuming the role and duties , spokesman of the President and the office and duties of.

Hamas won the election in Gaza and are in control there and as long as they stay with the same thoughts , agenda, toward Israel, there will not be peace with them.

The PA are the ones negotiating with the Israeli's and those are the ones I was referring to on my comments.
Once that is done , a peace treaty and State formed, then as I mentioned, Hamas will either continue in control of Gaza and be in a unofficial war with the Israeli's as they are now, semi truce that is broken by rocket fire into Israel and Israel striking back and continuing to go after their leadership or they will forgo their agenda of the destruction of Israel and then work out with the PA as possible a separate political party against them politically as we have here with our parties and depending on the form of government that the Palestinians decide to have , a Parliamentary one as Israel with numerous parties as Israel has, so many voices, LOL, or a two party system, that will be up to them.

The rest of my posts stand as written what I believe should happen.
The Palestinians, the PA, are deserving of a State. Whether they really want it right now, and are willing to make the concessions needed for that to happen I wonder. From what I have read, Abba's for now is quite content to build up his strength, needing the support of the Israelis against Hamas, they are stronger, militarily right now, the West Bank is getting stronger and healthier financially, business wise, in some ways by working with Israeli's in business in mutual projects and Investments from Arabs out side the West Bank
as well as strengthening their military might to confront the strength of Hamas.

What the Israelis and more importantly their leadership, Netanahue, want , is another matter.

In a way even in a status quo , they know this cannot go on forever. The longer they are occupiers the more it weakens their State, yet the political pressure by the hard liners is fierce.

They also have a problem due to the birth rate that is so much higher from their own Palestinian{Arab} Israeli citizens that in time the State will cease to be a Jewish state in population and if this State/no State isn't settled the only solution would be forced expulsion of their own citizens who happen to be Arab.{Possible like that that happened to their ancestors in Spain, Portugal, England, France in the past} The world would love that one.

So if I confused you in my support of the Palestinian State by not making clear who I was referring to I am sorry, hope this clarifies it for you.

If you still feel all Palestinians are politically in the same bag, Hamas only, there you are wrong and I assume you want a permanent occupation with out any statehood for any of the Palestinians.

There I don't agree with you.

[SweetVirginia]

So, basically, this is why I have very low regard for anyone who supports the Palestinian "cause", because, in doing so, you are supporting Hamas and their violent, bigoted hatred of Israel, Jews and Christians who understand the importance of a Jewish homeland.

Your assumption is wrong eddie. I believe 100% that the Israelis have a right to exist peacefully in Israel and that Israel has a right to exist. That said, I also believe that the Palestinian people have a right to exist peacefully and Palestine has the right to co exist alongside Israel. That does not make me a supporter of Hamas and their violent hatred of Israeli Jews. Your black and white view of this issue makes you seem bigoted and ignorant.

[deziloooooo]

I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt , possible by my not explaining who I was referring to regarding the PA vs Hamas...both Palestinians but at this time, different agenda's. Not saying all Palestinians who support the PA and Abba's are friendly toward the Israeli's but it seems they are more interested in living normal lives in their own state if the two sides can ever stop postulating , are ready for true talks.

No one, in my opinion can force them to the table or dictate the solution, it's going to have to happen because they are ready.

It doesn't look like they are ready yet.

Th Palestinians under the PA are objecting to the Israeli continuing to build Apartments in a area of the West Bank south of Jerusalem. The Israeli's say that will be their area in a final settlement , which it probably would be and the Palestinians probably know that but to me it's still seems a slap in their face to do so till all agree they can do it, like a fait compel, actually one less thing to negotiate with from the Palestinian out look, and IMO their correct i their feeling. It's because on the pressure on the Gov't of Israel by the hard right, they ultra orthodox.
As long as they keep on like that..nothing is going to happen.

Possible when the Israeli Arab population keeps ona growing..some one will look around and say , " Methinks we have a problem here, any one got any ideas?" Then they will settle into real negotiations. I'm afraid by that tume Abbas will be gobne from the scene, he wants to steo down, a young man he is not and who steps in and Hamas is right over the birder mking trouble.

I think they should be negotiating in good face with the guy thats there now, not wait to see who shows up to the table.

Just my opinion.

[burnsattornincan]

Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors."

I fully agree. Time to "obliterate" the ones causing all the trouble.