Used car question

[bettie525]

I thought I would ask you since you have had a lot of experience all kinds of situations. My husband and I bought a car on 9/24 at a “buy here, pay here” place and it is just not working out (all sorts of mechanical issues). He paid $1000.00 down and has made one payment of $150.00. Mike (car lot owner) has not given us the title yet. I noticed that he dizzy blonde who sold it forgot to have us sign the bill of sale. We were going to take the car back today let him keep the $150 payment and just try to get the $1000.00 down payment back. He said no, and showed us where we had signed the contract, which we did not receive a copy of. When I asked him why we have not gotten a signed copy of the contract he said it was because he was not there, he refused to give us a copy today and told us to leave his office, and he has 30 days to get us the title. So I am taking him to small claims. Next payment is due on the 21st. We are sending him a certified letter tomorrow outlining the conversation today. I just don’t know when we should return it to the lot? Right before the repo date, or as soon as he is served?

[mizbear]

bettie- Check with your attorney and check your local laws. Sounds fishy to me.

Here, they have to have certain paperwork before you can drive the car off the lot.

[leanna]

Based on my vast experience gleaned while watching the People's Court (LOL) I would say a couple of things:

-Legally, a deal is a deal and you bought the car as-is.
-However, it's a little confusing as to what you did or did not sign.

Did you actually sign a contract to buy the car?

The car lot does have a certain number of days to get the Title to you, so what he told you is correct.

If you are suing him for mechanical issues, you're going to need to have to something in writing that guaranteed the mechanics of the car, in order to win. Do you have that?

[lilyofcourse]

You need to talk to an attorney. Lots of areas and loop hole to get lost in in those deals.

[reeneejune]

also research "lemon" laws. Many states provide recourse within the first month or so of a car purchase if the seller knew the vehicle had mechanical problems and failed to disclose them at the time of sale.

A few hints the next time you go to buy a car...
- Don't assume that just because you have less than perfect credit that you can't get financing through a traditional source. If your bank isn't willing to lend to you, try a credit union. Mine evaluated my application, let me know that they couldn't approve me at the moment, then gave me several options for getting approved. One involved having a co-signer at the time the loan is initially made, making my payments on time for 6 months, then re-financing on my own.
- Even if you can't afford to have a mechanic check the car out before purchase (and if you have $1,000 for a down payment, use $50 to have the car inspected) at least indicate that you'd like to take the car to your mechanic prior to purchase. If they try to discourage you or talk you out of having the car inspected, run.
- Shop the traditional car lots, not the tiny "buy-here-pay-here" places. The traditional car lots will have a small section of "bargain" vehicles, usually ones they've taken as a trade and want to get rid of. They're more likely to treat you fairly in the hope that you'll eventually buy a newer car from them.

Good luck!

[sheilaincali]

As others have said- all states are different so research the lemon laws in YOUR state. Also DOCUMENT everything. Date and time of your conversations with Mike, keep copies of everything. Canceled checks, too.

DH has an extensive knowledge base thanks to People's Court too and they always trip them up if they don't have the documentation. If you send him anything send it so that you have proof of receipt so he can't claim you "never sent him that". Note any times you have left him messages as well. If possible keep copies of cell phone records of dates and times of calls.

Most of all GOOD LUCK

[bettie525]

I understand I bought the car as is, I just don't understand why he keeps promising me a title and a copy of the contract (that he refused to give me when I was standing in front of him). All very shady

[Clever Username]

I could have told you that this was a lousy deal when I saw the words "buy here, pay here."

What you are experiencing now is remorese over a bad decision you made.
You only two loopholes are:
1. Local laws have an implied 30 day warrranty.
2. In order to keep a happy customer, a business owner will eat the loss.

In clarification:
1. You don't have title because the lender holds title until the vehicle is paid off.
2. You should have been given a copy of the contract and truth in lending papers at sale.
3. If you left the sale without any documents, that's your fault.
4. Once you made it clear you are "going legal" not trying to work out the problem as gentlemen, the owner is wise to withhold everything until demanded at the formal Discovery stage.

[Clever Username]

Now, just backtrack to what you should have done in the first place.
Take the car to your mechanic to see what shape it's in.

[showtime]

Oct 12, 2011 15:35:17 GMT -5 reeneejune said:

also research "lemon" laws. Many states provide recourse within the first month or so of a car purchase if the seller knew the vehicle had mechanical problems and failed to disclose them at the time of sale.

A few hints the next time you go to buy a car...
- Don't assume that just because you have less than perfect credit that you can't get financing through a traditional source. If your bank isn't willing to lend to you, try a credit union. Mine evaluated my application, let me know that they couldn't approve me at the moment, then gave me several options for getting approved. One involved having a co-signer at the time the loan is initially made, making my payments on time for 6 months, then re-financing on my own.
- Even if you can't afford to have a mechanic check the car out before purchase (and if you have $1,000 for a down payment, use $50 to have the car inspected) at least indicate that you'd like to take the car to your mechanic prior to purchase. If they try to discourage you or talk you out of having the car inspected, run.
- Shop the traditional car lots, not the tiny "buy-here-pay-here" places. The traditional car lots will have a small section of "bargain" vehicles, usually ones they've taken as a trade and want to get rid of. They're more likely to treat you fairly in the hope that you'll eventually buy a newer car from them.

Good luck!

I believe "lemon laws" apply to new car purchases only. These laws are not applied to the dealer...it is actually applied to the manufacturer. Dealerships only facilitate the sales of the car.

Used car's aren't applicable to lemon laws because they're used. Each used car comes back with different wear and tear and mileage. While every new car is uniform in their standards.

Now, I'm not here to offer legal advice, nor should my comments be construed as such (boy, that sounds awfully legal doesn't it )

With that said. I think it will be very difficult to get your money back (if that is your overall goal). Just as you don't have a signed contract from him stating you "bought the car". He, likewise, doesn't have a signed contract from you saying he has to return your money.

Second is your intent. You didn't sign, but you had all the intentions to purchase. Most used cars are "what you see is what you get". Your intent is proven based on the fact that you made a monthly payment and you gave the dealer the $1000 down payment.

I don't think you can win your money back...(I'm sorry, I know this is not the words you're looking to hear). The dealership doesn't want the car (I don't blame them, they sell cars for a profit and don't want to reclaim junk they pawned off to you).

Other's mention to consult an attorney....well, first off, the amount you're trying to claim is too small. Also, I don't think attorney representation is allowed in small claims court. Then, the fee for the attorney would outweigh what you're trying to reclaim. Unless you're trying to sue them for bad business practices (and more than $1,000)

I know it's a lot of money....but I think you might end up swallowing this. I do wish you the best and hope things work out for you in the end.

-Showtime

[moneymaven]

bettie - I've been through something very similar with a very expensive car for a client ($90K)... trust me on this. Contact an attorney IMMEDIATELY. Run, do not walk.

Then make sure you maintain possession of the vehicle until you get what you're asking for. Possession is a big deal and you may be out the money and a car if you return it to him.

[phil5185]

and he has 30 days to get us the title. So I am taking him to small claims. Next payment is due on the 21st. We are sending him a certified letter tomorrow outlining the conversation today. I just don’t know when we should return it to the lot?

You get the title 30 days after the loan is paid off. (We recently completed a 60 month car loan, the title was sent to us a coupe weeks after the last payment.)

If you return the car to the lot, you will have lost your $1150 as well as your car. As for "taking him to small claims" - what will you claim? He sold you the car that you picked out (as is) and he loaned you the money to buy it - about the only legal complaint that you have is that you don't have a copy of the contract. So you will spend $50 for small claims, the judge will ask Mike to give you a copy of the contract.
Your buyer's remorse will cost you an extra $50 and a day in court - it might be better to use the $50 to get the car fixed.

[Firefly]

OP my brother sells used cars that he normally buys at auctions and I would think anyone that wants to sue him for lemon law or whatever would have a hard time proving that he A knew about any mechanical issues or B that it wasn't as is sale. If you were financing the car, you are not entitled to the tittle as there is a lean on the car. You should receive tittle that has the dealers and your name to show that you don't fully own the car in order for you to register the car.

By the way my boy friend bought a used 2003 Toyota camry that had a axel problems and the dealer had to fix the car first before he paid him anything. He bought it for $3800 cash and I think it looks better than my 2008 corolla that I am still paying for.

[showtime]

Oct 13, 2011 14:55:27 GMT -5 moneymaven said:

bettie - I've been through something very similar with a very expensive car for a client ($90K)... trust me on this. Contact an attorney IMMEDIATELY. Run, do not walk.

Then make sure you maintain possession of the vehicle until you get what you're asking for. Possession is a big deal and you may be out the money and a car if you return it to him.

OP,
My opinion is to not get a lawyer.
A new $90K car is a lot different than a used $1,000 car.
Rules are different for new cars than used.

Even your claims go to different courts (yours would be small claims) to recoup your losses.

Also, spending $2000 to recoup $90K is one thing. Spending $2000 in the hopes to recoup $1000 would be a wasted effort.

I think you're better off getting an investigative reporter for a local news service. They do this to get ratings for their TV show. You get them to do all the investigating and instigating...and who knows...with enough bad publicity, the dealer might refund your money. If he/she doesn't, then that bad publicity will stick with them.

Best of luck in whatever you decide to do.

-Showtime

[mizbear]

Even though it is a small business- check with the better business bureau (can be done online). they may already have other complaints.

[seriousthistime]

Also, call your state's Attorney General's consumer affairs office and find out if there is any regulation for these kinds of places. Was he required to get you a copy of the contract that gives all the fine-print details of the sale? If so, when was he required to do that?

Buy-here-pay-here places are really bad places to buy a car. The interest rates are high, the cars aren't great, and they seem all nice and everything but they prey on people who have few options. They are like payday loans, except that states are at least starting to regulate payday loan companies.

If you are concerned about having the car repossessed while you attempt to work this out, keep it in a locked garage and don't park it outside where you work. (I assume they got your workplace information from you, right?) It is likely that the car dealer is not required to take the car back and cancel the contract. It is also possible that he may repossess the car if you don't pay, and you could be out the money you have already paid him ($1000 plus $150) and any additional payments due between now and when he sells it to someone else -- if he is able to sell it to someone else.

[Deleted]

What is the total price you agreed to pay for the vehicle? $1K is downpayment, but sounds like additional payments are due.
I don't think failing to sign the bill of sale has any bearing on the contract, which it seems you did sign.
Did you read the contract before signing? Was it an as-is sale, or was there some warranty or provision for 'not as represented'?
What year & type of vehicle is this - is there any reason you would have expected it to be in perfect condition?
You don't own the car until it is paid in full, so you would not get the title until then - was $1150 the total cost of the car? If so, you really can't have any expectation that a $1K car is in full working order.

Unless something fraudulent occurred, I don't see anything here that would merit taking it to court. Buyer's remorse isn't going to play in small claims court. Failing to take it to your own mechanic to be checked will work against you as well - a reasonable person buying a used vehicle would do that.

[Deleted]

Where did the OP go?

[TD2K]

I believe "lemon laws" apply to new car purchases only. These laws are not applied to the dealer...it is actually applied to the manufacturer. Dealerships only facilitate the sales of the car.


I initially thought that till I did some quick looking and some states do apply lemon laws to used cars.

www.carlemon.com/

Find out what sort of consumer protection you may have in your state. For a used car, I always have it checked out by a separate mechanic though that's water under the bridge now.