I'm going to Europe!!!!

[Deleted]

March 11 - 25, 2012, we have a place to stay in Brussels.

From there we are going to visit London, Paris, Amsterdam and somewhere in Germany, maybe Berlin.

So now I'm figuring out our itinerary. When I look into it, it seems to me that it would be almost the same expense to rent a car as travel by train. And travelling by car would be WAY more fun.

So what tips do people have for me. Places to see, ways to save money...whatever you got.

[dancinmama]

later: How exciting. I don't have any tips for you cuz I haven't been in any of the places that you listed.

I think bonnap lives in Germany. You might want to PM her cuz I bet she could help you A LOT.

[tskeeter]

Can you drive a car with a manual transmission? Don't know how it is in Belgium, but in Ireland it cost almost twice as much to rent a car with an automatic as a car with a manual transmission.

Another thing to consider about renting cars is that hotels in places like Paris don't have free parking. So in addition to paying for a daily rental on a car you aren't driving around, you're paying to store it. I think I saw 34E a day when I was looking at stuff in Paris a couple of days ago. To reduce the car rental cost and to avoid paying for parking for a car that isn't in daily operation, we try to schedule our trip to start in someplace like Dublin, where we will spend a few days. Take a cab from the airport to hotel, then pick up the rental car from a location near the hotel on the morning we are heading into the country side. If you want to drive rather than take the train, can you just rent from city to city and turn in the car when you're in a big city and not driving?

Rental car insurance is also pretty expensive (often more than half the cost of the actual car rental). Many credit cards will cover you if you use their card to rent the car, but rental agencies can be really aggressive about selling the insurance. I've had them require written documentation showing that the credit card company will provide the insurance coverage. Also, you may find that some credit card companies may not provide insurance coverage in certain countries (such as Ireland and England).

Most credit card companies charge a foreign transaction fee on out of your home country purchases, in addition to the foreign exchange fee. Look on line for cards with no foreign transaction fees (I think Chase is one) and you will save 1% - 3% every time you use the card.

We use ATMs to get the local currency, as if we were at home. To minimize any per transaction fees, we asked the bank to increase our per transaction limit. (Some high volume ATMs, such as at airports, seem to limit the amount of your withdrawal, regardless of the size of your transaction limit.)

Remember to notify your bank (ATM) and your credit card companies that they will be seeing transactions from other countries. This minimizes the risk that they will shut off your card due to unusual activity. Also, plan to have two credit cards with you. If one gets shut down, no problem, use the other. By the way many European banks require a four digit PIN for your ATM card. Heard similar things about credit cards, but don't know that information is accurate.

[Deleted]

Will you rent a right or left hand side drive vehicle? Maybe do left hand side drive & then train for London.
In car rental price do you include Chunnel rate? Chunnel is very expensive for a vehicle. If you reserve ahead it is cheaper, but shockingly high (same cost as flight would have been).

If you are going to London proper, I honestly would not drive there - it is crazy!! If you are going outside London (like to Stonehenge) then I would take car over. Make sure your auto insurance covers you out of country & you get the international license if your insurer requires it. Driving on opposite side of road in a left hand drive vehicle is more difficult & you can get disoriented.

If you do decide to use Eurail Pass I recall that it would have been cheaper to buy from US than it was in country. Rail goes everywhere in England though, so mass transit is a good option there (eurail + subway)

[tskeeter]

If you're considering a Eurail pass, one place you can get them is ricksteves.com.

[Deleted]

Thx tskeeter! This is the kind of info I need. I will follow up on everything you said.

[tskeeter]

Later, I'm a big fan of Rick Steves web site. Under travel planning there is a section called the graffiti wall. This is where travelers share their traveling tips. Since Steves is a advocate of cost effective traveling, a lot of the tips relate to travel expense control. Lots of other great information in addition to low cost traveling on the graffiti wall, too.

[tcu2003]

If you're going to museums, you can often download podcast audio "tours" on iTunes - we did this a little for our Paris trip last year.

Paris has great public transporation, and street signs can be hard to find (they're put on the sides of buildings, not on corners or on stoplights like we're used to here), so I wouldn't want to drive there. I was in Germany a few years ago with a couple of coworkers, and we had a rental car, and didn't have any problems getting around. It was definitely a manual, not an automatic, but for the guy driving, that wasn't a problem (he'd also been to Germany serveral times before, so that probably helped).

[Deleted]

I'm checking out Rick Steves and I am now looking into a mix of trains and renting a car. Thx guys

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

I don't recommend you drive a car in London. Outside the city is not a problem, but I probably lost 3 years off my life trying to get our car back to the car rental place! I wouldn't want to even try to drive in Paris.

My biggest suggestion would be to choose a couple places and get to know them. Realize, each city you travel to you're going to lose a day of your vacation. So of the 14 days you'll be gone, you've already lost 5 days.

For instance, London, Paris and Brussels/Amsterdam are in a nice little triangle. Paris and London I've been to and 5 days in each of those 2 cities of them will barely allow you to scratch the surface. You don't need a car in either of those 2 cities, public transportation is excellent. Not sure about Amsterdam or Brussels though, never made it to those cities (other than just pass through Amsterdam's airport on the way to Istanbul).

In France, make sure you get a good guide book and find out what is open when. IME, all the museums are closed different days so it'll really benefit you to make a game plan before you hit the streets. Don't miss Versailles either, it's just a short train ride of of Paris.

[tskeeter]

In France, make sure you get a good guide book and find out what is open when. IME, all the museums are closed different days so it'll really benefit you to make a game plan before you hit the streets.

In addition, you want to check the web sites of the museums you plan to visit a couple of weeks before your trip to verify that their schedule or hours have not changed. (The information in guide books are likely several months out of date the day they are released for sale. Given how economic challenges are affecting much of the world, you could see some adjusting of schedules.)

[tskeeter]

Later, when in Paris, we like to stay in the Rue Cler area. About 1/2 mile walk to Eiffel Tower and Seine River boat rides, just blocks to Napoleon's tomb, blocks to the Rodin Museum. Within about four miles: Louvre, Museum of Modern Art (d'Orsay), Museum of the Middle Ages (Cluny), Saint-Sulpice (Sunday organ recitals/visit organ loft 11:30 AM - 12:05 PM), Notre Dame Cathedral (gargoyles and flying buttresses), St. Chapelle Cathedral (stained glass), Arc de Triumphe, Champs-Elysees. Bank with a ATM on the corner of Rue Cler and Av de la Motte-Picquet; Post Office on the other side of Rue Cler; subway (Metro) and bus one block from bank.

A location on the left bank, across the river from the Louvre would be ideal. About the middle of historic Paris, half way between the Eiffel Tower and Notre Dame. Not more than a couple of miles to almost all of the major Paris sights, and many much closer.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Don't forget to hit the Rodin Museum, Monmontre and if you are interested, the cemetary where everyone's buried. When you walk past Jim Morrison's grave, you can smell the pot that they smoke there.

It's pretty neat, seeing all the figures from history buried there.

[Mad Dawg Wiccan]

I would suggest you get Euorail passes. If you've never been there, Europe has a fantastic rail system. If the train doesn't go there, a bus (also covered by a Euorail pass) does.

Also, my favorite place is Bavaria.

[Deleted]

I must get to Paris and London. And we are staying in Brussels. This trip is about seeing the main attractions. In London we want to have some good fish and chips at an english pub, stone henge, some quality shopping (that means cheap and unique to London) and one of those bus tours they do. In Paris the eiffel towel, the louvre, eat at a cafe or bistro, quality shopping (cheap and unique to Paris). The cruise on the mosel river sounds right up my alley!

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Have you bought airline tickets yet? You may find an open jaw will work better with what you plan to do than a round trip. It may be a little more, but you won't have to take the time to backtrack. For instance, if you fly into Brussels then you fly out of London and hit Amsterdam and Paris along the way.

[TheOtherMe]

Capital One credit cards have a 0% foreign transaction fee. Get one of those if you don't have one.

Make sure you get your fish and chips at a pub, not at a fancy restaurant. I have found the pub food to be better than restaurant food in London.

[steph08]

Oct 9, 2011 22:23:43 GMT -5 @justaposter said:

I must get to Paris and London. And we are staying in Brussels. This trip is about seeing the main attractions. In London we want to have some good fish and chips at an english pub, stone henge, some quality shopping (that means cheap and unique to London) and one of those bus tours they do. In Paris the eiffel towel, the louvre, eat at a cafe or bistro, quality shopping (cheap and unique to Paris). The cruise on the mosel river sounds right up my alley!

Just so you know, Stonehenge is quite a ways from London. It is about a two hour drive, so you will either need to rent a car or take a bus trip there because it really is in the middle of nowhere.

[flopsy]

i stayed in London for a month a few years back. i LOVE the underground, coming back to a situation where i had no transportation was awful. i'll flip through my journal (it was a school related trip) and pics to see if i can come up with a few suggestions.

i too would by pass Stonehenge since you're bound to be on a tight schedule. for all that the idea of Stonehenge is cool you don't want to be standing on a plain in the middle of no where in what is likely to be bad weather and paying money to be there if you could instead hit up museums in London and spend a leisurely afternoon in a pub.

[Deleted]

I'm still reading and appreciating the suggestions folks. Keep em coming!

[tskeeter]

Later, was looking at sights to see on a short trip to London (Dad is talking about a day trip from Paris via the Chunnel). Found a list of top London sights on my favorite travel web site (Rick Steves, as if you didn't know). So I'm thinking about hitting the British Library to see the Magna Carta, the British Crown Jewels at the Tower of London, and maybe a Sunday evening organ recital at Westminster Abbey. I'm expecting we'll also stop by Harrods (DW and her Aunt won't want to miss the world's most famous department store).

If you haven't gotten to researching costs yet, here's a reference point from Eurostar. A passenger ticket from Paris to London currently ranges from about $95 to about $190 for an economy class adult ticket, depending on the time of the day. A youth ticket would probably be a bit less. A couple of cool things that help justify the cost: the Chunnel and a high speed train ride. Travel time was about 2 1/4 hours to 2 1/2 hours.

By the way, I like the other poster's idea about considering open jaw airline tickets.

[steph08]

I lived in London for three months during college in 2005...the best three months of my life!

tskeeter - your top sites look good. I would recommend a Thames river cruise to Greenwich as well (Prime Meridian). It is pretty fun to look at the picture of me straddling both hemispheres. St. Paul's Cathedral and the Millenium Bridge (pedestrian bridge; the one destroyed at the beginning of HP and the HBP, if you're a fan) is pretty neat too. Harrod's was my favorite place to go when I had a day off; I loved to just wander around.

You should also just go to Trafalgar Square because it is awesome. If you are agile too, you can climb up on the lion statues. The parks are also really awesome; I loved Hyde Park and Regent's Park (because it was only a five minute walk from my flat). Once came across Cricket in the Park where something insane like 20,000 people were watching this jumbo tv. Such a weird scene to stumble across!

I am also a London Eye fan (the big observation wheel across the Thames from Westminster). A lot of people call it a glorified ferris wheel and it is expensive, but it was also really neat to see London that way.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Skip driving in countries where they drive on the opposite side. You will forget and hit someone head on.

Actually, driving on the wrong side of the road is really not an issue in my experience. The steering wheel is on the opposite side too, so you're driving essentially on the same part of the road. I drove for 2 weeks in England, driving in the countryside. The only place I became uncomfortable was in London. I drove in Glasgow, Inverness, Edinburgh, Cambridge and a lot of smaller towns/cities without a problem.

Also, I did not find that they drove that much more aggressively than some cities in the US.

IME, the biggest issue is cost. Renting a car in Europe is expensive and so is the gas. Parking is a problem, even in some of the smaller cities and also costly. When you have 4 people to share the cost, it becomes cost effective to rent a car - even with paying for extra drivers (we had 2). With 2 people (one of who cannot drive), the costs tend to far outweigh the benefits and it does make more sense to take public transportation.

ETA: I never saw a bull on the road. I did drive up to a B&B in England, where we had to drive through a cow field, but we were going only about 20 mph as the road was too rough, hitting an animal wasn't going to happen.

[Apple]

Oct 13, 2011 8:17:51 GMT -5 @toughtimes said:

And in Ireland, you do come around hedgerows to find cattle or herds of pigs in the roads, and they have right of way too.

Um, you can have that experience right here at home too. Cows, pigs, deer, horses, etc. No hedgerows, but trees and winding roads are just as bad, plus a deer will jump into a car, moving just a bit faster than a cow would... If you were afraid of all that you'd never be able to drive in our rural areas.

[Apple]

One thought on souvenirs...
When I went, there were certain things I HAD to get at each place (a sweater in Ireland, a blanket in Scotland and a peacoat in England--found that one at Harrods, the only winter one I had found in the last place I was going to look, I was giving up because it was spring and they were all gone, it was half price and perfect ;D )... Anyway, after those, I still wanted something from each country and have found that magnets and Christmas ornaments work best for me. They are small and inexpensive (so easy to pack in a carryon). I see the magnets every time I go to the fridge and it reminds me of the experiences we had there. The Christmas ornaments get their own little tree (I made a small globe to be the tree topper on that one). The ornaments are all different, we have a couple I bought at the Waterford crystal factory, a small stuffed bear dressed as a welsh soldier, metal ornaments from Rome, etc, etc. You can also make your own ornament from something small even it it's not meant to be one.

[tskeeter]

Oct 15, 2011 11:31:39 GMT -5 Apple said:

Oct 13, 2011 8:17:51 GMT -5 @toughtimes said:

And in Ireland, you do come around hedgerows to find cattle or herds of pigs in the roads, and they have right of way too.

Um, you can have that experience right here at home too. Cows, pigs, deer, horses, etc. No hedgerows, but trees and winding roads are just as bad, plus a deer will jump into a car, moving just a bit faster than a cow would... If you were afraid of all that you'd never be able to drive in our rural areas.

I think the difference between the US and Ireland is that in Ireland, roadways are used to move livestock between barns and pastures, between fields, and the like twice a day. We're not talking about a single animal that has gotten out of the pasture, but a small herd of four or five cows, a small flock of 20 or 30 sheep, etc. , being moved by a farmer on foot and his dog. The lack of shoulders on the road, stone walls a couple of feet off the pavement, or the presence of a 10 foot high hedge that you can touch from the passenger seat of the car (if you are not meeting on-coming traffic; if meeting traffic, an open window sometimes allows the hedge into the passenger seat) do not allow you to go around or the livestock to move out of your way. You simply creep along for a quarter mile or so until the livestock clears the road. In some parts of Ireland, sheep seem to graze on open range, with no fence to keep them off of the road. It's all part of the adventure of driving in Ireland! And part of the reason your insurance company and credit card company won't insure your rental car.

[Apple]

Oct 17, 2011 17:37:11 GMT -5 tskeeter said:

Oct 15, 2011 11:31:39 GMT -5 Apple said:

Um, you can have that experience right here at home too. Cows, pigs, deer, horses, etc. No hedgerows, but trees and winding roads are just as bad, plus a deer will jump into a car, moving just a bit faster than a cow would... If you were afraid of all that you'd never be able to drive in our rural areas.

I think the difference between the US and Ireland is that in Ireland, roadways are used to move livestock between barns and pastures, between fields, and the like. We're not talking about a single animal that has gotten out of the pasture, but a small herd of four or five cows, a small flock of 20 or 30 sheep, etc. , being moved by a farmer on foot and his dog. The lack of shoulders on the road, stone walls a couple of feet off the pavement, or the presence of a 10 foot high hedge that you can touch from the passenger seat of the car (if you are not meeting on-coming traffic; if meeting traffic, an open window sometimes allows the hedge into the passenger seat) do not allow you to go around or the livestock to move out of your way. You simply creep along for a quarter miles or so until the livestock clears the road. In some parts of Ireland, sheep seem to graze on open range, with no fence to keep them off of the road. It's all part of the adventure of driving in Ireland! And part of the reason your insurance company and credit card company won't insure your rental car.

Lol, believe me, in rural Oregon or Washington you may run into the same thing. However, the roads are usually a little more flat and you can find a spot to move around (my mom had to drive cattle with her family from one town to another for the different seasons, a day or two long event. It's not quite as common now, but still happens).

I don't think I'd want to drive in Ireland though--some areas are open, but the roads are really narrow. One plus to riding a bus/coach is that they have the right-of-way over cars.

[tskeeter]

After our first European trip, DW put together a wonderful scrap book of souvenirs. Ticket stubs from the hop-on/hop-off bus, rental car maps, brochures and pamphlets from places we saw (and some from places we wanted to see on the next trip). Reservation confirmations, travel itineraries, and map quest driving directions. The receipt from a cool restaurant. Lots of stuff that would usually have ended up in the trash. They tell the story of our trip, and a few photos just add to the story.

DW had made all the arrangements and was carrying reservation confirmations and other documents in a thin three ring binder. The three or four clear pouch dividers she happened to have in the binder (I have now found one with a flap top that keeps things from spilling out) made it easy to collect these small items without them being strewn all over the place and becoming debris that is thrown out. This collection of items, the maps, brochures, and pamphlets are our mementos, but they are also our travel planning kit. We have costs, maps, and a host of other materials to help plan the next trip. A thin binder with a few pouch dividers is now a standard part of our travel kit.

Of course, we did purchase a few souvenirs of the sparkly kind at that well known glass factory in southern Ireland, too. In many cases, the merchant will ship your purchase to your home. That way you don't have to lug around a growing collection of purchases, you reduce the risk that things will get broken because they were not properly packed, or because they were mishandled while in transit (I once had a bicycle arrive at the destination with a bent frame, as if a very heavy tool box had been thrown on top of the case) and if they do arrive at your home damaged, the merchant will replace the damaged items (we've never had any souvenirs arrive damaged). If a merchant will not ship a purchase, we will send ourselves a package via a close by post office.

[Deleted]

Bonnap here. I'm recently back from two weeks in Italy and a week in Croatia.

Based on your itinerary Later I concur with the others that renting a car probably doesn't make sense due to the cost of the rental, gas, and parking as well as the challenge of driving and parking. You will both enjoy the trip more if it's not a white knuckle trip. (FWIW, we drove to Florence Italy from Bonn, Germany; between construction and back ups the 10 hour trip took 13 hours )

If you fly into London it's an easy train to Paris. Between Paris and Brussels is the TGV (Tres Grand Vitesse) which I take regularly between Cologne and Paris. Because you are planning so far in advance I would look into flying from Brussels to Berlin. If you check out German Wings you can get some really cheap fares. As an example I flew round trip from Bonn/Cologne airport to Zagreb, Croatia for about $150 US with one month's notice. Berlin has a fabulous public transport system so why pay to park your rental car.

Tskeeter has some wonderful recommendations. Personally I'm in perfect bliss just strolling the banks of the Seine and checking out the bookenists. BTW since Debthaven is a local you might ask her for some recommendations.

One other thought is if you are staying in the same town for 3 or more days, give some thought to renting an apartment vs a hotel room so you don't have to eat out every meal. Not only does eating out that much get expensive and fatten you up quicker, I find that you also just get tired of it. You can find privately owned apartments on Trip Advisor and VRBO.

Have fun with your planning!

[Deleted]

One other thought is if you are staying in the same town for 3 or more days, give some thought to renting an apartment vs a hotel room so you don't have to eat out every meal. Not only does eating out that much get expensive and fatten you up quicker, I find that you also just get tired of it. You can find privately owned apartments on Trip Advisor and VRBO.

Thank you!!!