blàck swans:Flying in the Missing Bird formation

[bimetalaupt]

With the talk about increasing dividends... The Black Swan of the future banking crises has been and has been topic. Well with the potencial of one Trillion dollars in reduced lending power with the call of Increased Tier 1.. This could be a huge disinflation events for Major Banking ,, Esp New York, London , Germany and Swiss banks..They all lack capital.. Dispute the facts:
A: last Bank stress test in Europe was a joke.
B; Concentration of lower prices have added to the problem of office space and store (retail space)Backed Loans are carried at book dispite the fact that many are 30-40% overvalued on the books.
C: Piigs are almost 50% overpriced on real-estate,, Esp houses in Spain...
D: No banks has been able to raise enough Tier1 Capital except many large American banks that were forced to sell stock below book value.. Book value is overstated..

E: There is little interest in investing in banking as the future profits (ROE) could be as low as 8%,, Like the 1930's...

F: Banking is going to be a lot more risk adverse then before.. Banks are not lending money but trying to keep the doors open.. at any cost.. just look at Citibank!!!

Now add to that the idea of starting to pay dividends from cash given by the Federal Reserve or Bundesbanks.. ETC.!! It is a ploy to sell stock??? Most international banks have too much sovern debt at book.. Hold to maturity?? Never mark to Market on the books... I like my 2005 Red wines from the Correct(right) bank .. IE good wines at a lower price then Left Bank.. La Tour??vs Adams French Vineyards.. It is all about cutting cost and running with high Tech..Lower cost of land and rebuilding the right bank wine-estates have made the quality of the right bank wines as good or better then the left bank (Parker ratings) but cost of wine can be as little as 10% for the same thing.. It is more fun to mark YOUR Wine holdings to market then bonds.. Red Bordeaux Wine becomes valuable as it hits the magic age of 10.. Great investments....
Banks like Citibank will run in the long run with better capital ratios. Price for the investor.. Haircuts..50%

Just a thought,

Bruce

Watching M3 as bond prices will fall as interest raises.. there is a negative correlation for M3 size and 30 Year bond or 10 year T-Notes YIELD .. M3 could give banks some room to lend.. If they can raise capital. On the other hand we have too much retail space per person and Big Box use less space for each dollar in sales... It is all about cutting cost..

Bundesbank is the only thing keeping the EURO floating!!
copyright Bi Metal Au Pt 2036

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[bimetalaupt]

To all: the German Banking system is under pressure, would be a understatement.. With the Problems of the State own Banks that are 100% financed with Government bonds.. They have zero real capital :meaning the state will have to replace the losses from the Greek bonds one a one to one bases.There is at least one bank in the EU that is know to be in real trouble.. IE reason for the "Missing Bird Formation" No one know for sure who and there are many bets on one Germany and could be a this or that so no one trust anyone in the EU to overnight money to.. IE LIBOR is now !! West LB as to be removed from the LIBOR rate test group>> weak bank that needs capital esp Teir1 in the worst ways!!.. It is only alive bacuase of the baking of the State!!

That real meaning.
1: Most German banks are under capitalised!! with the average capital of Tier1 of 2% any loss in Greek bonds will reduce total capital to less then none!!
2: Germany is know for savers not investment!! Most in Germany do not know the total risk Merkel is putting on the average German.. You know the one that makes those MB and BMW.. Work hard and start early.. Save money and depend on the Bundesbank to keep inflation under control.
3:Rather then the Federal Reserve the ECB has at this time one mandate: inflation control no mater what the unemployment rate.. According to Evans this is under fire for Jobs!! Germany is working hard for re-employment of it most valued assets.. Human and human brain power.
4: Call Axel Weber a bit on the enrage side but he was correct.. The delay caused by Merkel will cost money and the change in the Social Retirement system for 90% replacement to 40% replacement income is only one adjustment the Government had to make.. Problem is the PIIGS refuse to make adjustments to the retirement grants and that is making German workers and Finland "True-fin's" made as >?><<>?
5: It is all about I buy your FIAT Bonds and use them at 100% if you will buy mine.. FIAT capital in the EU as everyone one uses Debt rather then Equity because of the huge tax burden of capital!!

Just my thoughts
Bi Metal Au Pt

Maybe what we need is a financial battleship like maxi size that go thought the Panama canal: Liquid assets with zero return are better then sleeping in the Cardiac unit with wires to part of the body I did not want wired... Two weeks of Hospital food and Frank has to bring up what over what?

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[bimetalaupt]

Aug 20, 2011 16:28:07 GMT -5 @franktheimpaler said:

Can't wait til those Chinese war ships go through...that should fire up the citizenry!

Frank, ..... 4U...
Yes,, At speed of 20 Knots and small size.. Like the WWII Casablanca Float tops that used Replicating one pass power like those of the Great Lake "OAR" ships of WWII because we ran out of Turbine gears . We built 50 of them in less then two years... It has taken them five years to find power for an old out of date flat top!! WOW!!

Bruce for me

Graph : one the subject of the USA banks has 8% Tier 1 capital and
Germany less then 2%; at current risk levels could be less then zero Tier1 capital...

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[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

It has taken them five years to find power for an old out of date flat top!! WOW!!

LOL, are they here to protect their investment??

3.14 Trillion and growing!!

You can't dispute your facts BTI. K4u!

All we can do is go off of the fact it seems they are willing to do whatever it takes to avoid being wrong about the idea of a Euro currency. A treaty for economic prosperity, is the first step on the path to a euro bond, JMO.

[bimetalaupt]

Aug 20, 2011 16:57:24 GMT -5 Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger said:

It has taken them five years to find power for an old out of date flat top!! WOW!!

LOL, are they here to protect their investment??

3.14 Trillion and growing!!

You can't dispute your facts BTI. K4u!

All we can do is go off of the fact it seems they are willing to do whatever it takes to avoid being wrong about the idea of a Euro currency. A treaty for economic prosperity, is the first step on the path to a euro bond, JMO.

A++,
I have a friend from China who told me there are a billion Chinese human-beings that want to move the America!! They love anything American. That is very much the checks that they send back to China for the Grand Parents to live on. They have no social security or retirement system for the old to have a human for of living on.The average banking family know the importance's of the American Bonds and supports Chinese Central Banks ownership of the best paper in the world!!!

As stated before the EURO is a dictator detour looking for an event to make it happen.. I would also admit that the banks in China will need a lot of capital but it is around because most firms in China do have Capital!! They are also savers like The Swiss.

Just a thought,
Bruce

They also remember the American Sailors and Marine landing in China and the brave Submariners saving the day with a huge barrage of six inch from the two Narwhal class submarine cruisers during WWII!!

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[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

I have a friend from China who told me there are a billion Chinese human-beings that want to move the America!! They love anything American. That is very much the checks that they send back to China for the Grand Parents to live on. They have no social security or retirement system for the old to have a human for of living on.The average banking family know the importance's of the American Bonds and supports Chinese Central Banks ownership of the best paper in the world!!!

I don't doubt it for one second. Like you were saying, with our help, China was freed from the torment of Japanese occupation during WW2. Now their kids and grand kids have to move to NA to make money for them because their communist ideals were held onto simply out of spite. No wonder we are now seeing happiness not GDP as the mantra for China..

As stated before the EURO is a dictator detour looking for an event to make it happen.. I would also admit that the banks in China will need a lot of capital but it is around because most firms in China do have Capital!! They are also savers like The Swiss.

At least it's a piece of paper and not a human like say.. Hitler. I agree there is lot of money in the international banking system. China, USA, Canada, Korea, Australia.. This is why the Europeans need to figure it out. IMO, China and the FED will keep it propped up for them because we are talking small increments here. However the longer it takes for them to decided that they need to issue ESFS stabilized bonds the longer the people of Europe will have to suffer. Also, I forgot about the foreign deposits that flow5 has been talking about, right now that is 700b++ USD, part of the M3 here, but the M3 here is in the trillions, per MMXII..

[Virgil Showlion]

The average banking family know the importance's of the American Bonds and supports Chinese Central Banks ownership of the best paper in the world!

Paper paying out peanuts in interest and losing its purchasing power daily.

Their loyalty is admirable, but it might have a lot more to do with holding on to their best customer than asset quality.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

It's called one hand washes the other Virg! USA paper is still AAA+, and aside from CDN paper it's the only paper that I trust. Just like the Chinese. They also like the fact that billions of USDs are sent home every year. That helps spur consumption in china!

[bimetalaupt]

Aug 20, 2011 22:07:01 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

The average banking family know the importance's of the American Bonds and supports Chinese Central Banks ownership of the best paper in the world!

Paper paying out peanuts in interest and losing its purchasing power daily.

Their loyalty is admirable, but it might have a lot more to do with holding on to their best customer than asset quality.

Virgil and A++
Great Point..Holding on to your customer.. We have also made a customer for our high tech firms!! over the years with exporting $$$$$. Now we need to make world class products they want at a cost they want to pay!!

I don't doubt it for one second. Like you were saying, with our help, China was freed from the torment of Japanese occupation during WW2. Now their kids and grand kids have to move to NA to make money for them because their communist ideals were held onto simply out of spite. No wonder we are now seeing happiness not GDP as the mantra for China..

Just a thought,
Bruce
Also K4both of U

with me bad

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

LOL... Great minds BTI, great minds!!! ;D

[Virgil Showlion]

Great Point..Holding on to your customer.. We have also made a customer for our high tech firms!

My mind always travels back to the endless vista of shipping docks in Hong Kong sitting idle after the 2008 crash. No world appetite for US debt means no US recovery. No recovery means no US citizens buying shiploads of lead-painted toys means no jobs at Great Happy Sweatshop for Making Happy People Toys for the People Inc.

Can you imagine 10% or even 5% unemployment in a nation with 1.1 billion people and a shaky communist government? You'd be looking at 100 million out-of-work Chinese employees with only a fraction of Americans' patriotic fervor.

No sir, it doesn't surprise me at all that Uncle Sam says "you'll buy our paper and like it" while the Chinese politicians grit their teeth and nod.

USA paper is still AAA+, and aside from CDN paper it's the only paper that I trust.

At what point will you stop trusting it?

Even if (if!) the current administration manages to cut 4 trillion in spending over the next ten years, Sam is looking at a 14.3 + 10 = 24.3 trillion public deficit by 2021. Add in Freddy and Fannie, you get $30.7 trillion. At some point the world appetite for trillions upon trillions of debt is going to evaporate.

Personally, I don't think the world economy can absorb $10 trillion more debt. You obviously do (AAA+ and all that).

My question to you is: at what point does your AAA+ outlook change?

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

My mind always travels back to the endless vista of shipping docks in Hong Kong sitting idle after the 2008 crash. No world appetite for US debt means no US recovery. No recovery means no US citizens buying shiploads of lead-painted toys means no jobs at Great Happy Sweatshop for Making Happy People Toys for the People Inc.

Can you imagine 10% or even 5% unemployment in a nation with 1.1 billion people and a shaky communist government? You'd be looking at 100 million out-of-work Chinese employees with only a fraction of Americans' patriotic fervor.

No sir, it doesn't surprise me at all that Uncle Sam says "you'll buy our paper and like it" while the Chinese politicians grit their teeth and nod.

Virg, that has basically been my point the entire time I have been posting here. China 110% needs not only the US, but also Europe. They are decades away from having what they want, and by the time they get there, they will have given their people the freedom to live like they do here. I think that you misunderstand why things stopped in 2008. There was simply no more greece left, it was all gone, and the gears seized up. It wasn't because of lack of interest in US bonds. IMO, the Chinese understand what they are doing, and that is why they aren't grinding their teeth while buying debt, they want to prosper as much as we do.

At what point will you stop trusting it?

Even if (if!) the current administration manages to cut 4 trillion in spending over the next ten years, Sam is looking at a 14.3 + 10 = 24.3 trillion public deficit by 2021. Add in Freddy and Fannie, you get $30.7 trillion. At some point the world appetite for trillions upon trillions of debt is going to evaporate.

Personally, I don't think the world economy can absorb $10 trillion more debt. You obviously do (AAA+ and all that).

My question to you is: at what point does your AAA+ outlook change?

First Virg your assuming that there will be no GDP growth, or minimal growth with those projections. The growth that will occur over those ten years will put trillions and trillions more into the world economy. In 10 years we could be looking at world GDP of 80T+

My AAA+ outlook would change if we see some more legs here. China in 30 yrs.. India 30 yrs.. However, it's not so much that it would change on the outlook on the USA, because I understand what prosperity to the third world means for us. What it would change is my view that there are really only two or three safe places in this world long term, as far as govt paper goes.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

I was just about to fall asleep and I thought about something and didn't want to forget.. Why can't the ESFS say that if the country(Germany) is in good standing, they can borrow at a better rate, IF they have to borrow. It basically allows the bund, ect, to still exist, but it gives the rest something to borrow from.

There will be a spread on the money from the ESFS to the countries, and the money in the Euro bonds on the market, lets not forget Lebanon just issued euro bonds, so just bonds issued in euros from the ESFS, not actually EURO bonds.. This will give the fund credit because they will turn a profit on the spread, there is guidelines that all have to follow, and all the countries back it up saying they will fund it if something happens(Good money after bad is how the euros seem to like it). This also leaves it open for others to join, like say Russia who has asstets reserves to back the stability fund. The sick part is, that by selling bonds on the open market and having the spread on the loans the ESFS would make money... NO I think Math says it would, but I am right now.

Like I was saying just a thought..

[Virgil Showlion]

The growth that will occur over those ten years will put trillions and trillions more into the world economy. In 10 years we could be looking at world GDP of 80T+

There's an optimistic outlook if ever there was one.

A karma for your optimism, sir.

Why can't the ESFS say that if the country(Germany) is in good standing, they can borrow at a better rate, IF they have to borrow. It basically allows the bund, ect, to still exist, but it gives the rest something to borrow from.

There will be a spread on the money from the ESFS to the countries, and the money in the Euro bonds on the market, lets not forget Lebanon just issued euro bonds, so just bonds issued in euros from the ESFS, not actually EURO bonds.. This will give the fund credit because they will turn a profit on the spread, there is guidelines that all have to follow, and all the countries back it up saying they will fund it if something happens(Good money after bad is how the euros seem to like it).

How is this different from the current status quo? Maybe I'm missing something.

[usaone]

Aug 20, 2011 16:38:22 GMT -5 bimetalaupt said:

Aug 20, 2011 16:28:07 GMT -5 @franktheimpaler said:

Can't wait til those Chinese war ships go through...that should fire up the citizenry!

Frank, ..... 4U...
Yes,, At speed of 20 Knots and small size.. Like the WWII Casablanca Float tops that used Replicating one pass power like those of the Great Lake "OAR" ships of WWII because we ran out of Turbine gears . We built 50 of them in less then two years... It has taken them five years to find power for an old out of date flat top!! WOW!!

Bruce for me

Graph : one the subject of the USA banks has 8% Tier 1 capital and
Germany less then 2%; at current risk levels could be less then zero Tier1 capital...

Chinas near term global military might has been GREATLY overstated.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

There's an optimistic outlook if ever there was one.

A karma for your optimism, sir.

LOL. I can understand your bearishness.. However, think about the fact that even the bears are harping that the BOOM is going to come from the emerging markets. Then look at this..

www.google.ca/search?rlz=1C1CHMZ_enCA362CA362&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=wrold+GDP


From 30T to 60T in the last 10 years, that is with, what they say is a lot of grow in the emerging markets. You know these BIG GDP numbers. However, we konw the conditions, we see how far they still have to go.

China has just started thier FDI. Africa and India are going to grow along with China. The volume is there. Who knows? Maybe my optimistic 25% growth in GDP over the next decade will be a little bearish..

How is this different from the current status quo? Maybe I'm missing something.

Great question!! k4U!!

It's different because right now the ESFS is basically a savings account that they want the debtors to dip into, and China to fund. China wants to buy bonds because a bonds MAKES a country do certain things. That's what great about them, IMO, it makes govts act responsible(BONDS them).

It takes the debtors off the markets and away from the vigilantes but MAKES them act responsible. Up until now they could say whatever they wanted, and do the opposite. If the ESFS.. AKA the other eruo members, control their interest rates it will make them follow the guide lines set out.

It makes it so that there are eruo bonds but not a EURO bond. Which is what this last round of BS was about. Germany can still lend on the open market, their debt is still more attractive because the ESFS is stabilized by they EU, but still has lower quality debt attached to it.

Plus it allows others to join like I was saying, and yes the sick part is the ESFS would make money lending at at 3-4% spread.

[Virgil Showlion]

It takes the debtors off the markets and away from the vigilantes but MAKES them act responsible. Up until now they could say whatever they wanted, and do the opposite. If the ESFS.. AKA the other eruo members, control their interest rates it will make them follow the guide lines set out.

This would be my main sticking point.

In theory, interest rates were supposed to be the check and balance in the current system. PIIGS go on a binge, rates on their debt go into the stratosphere, austerity ensues. The problem being that 14% on a 2 year note didn't seem to be a real deterrent to Greece and Italy in particular. In Greece's case, they'd take 50% at the lending window so long as they had a realistic expectation they could borrow at 60% tomorrow to pay it back.

The "bondedness" of bonds, in terms of their terms' ability to influence spending behaviour, didn't afford the lenders the sway they thought it would. That will be the case in any system where the lending party has a significant investment in the borrower. You or I could never get away with holding a bank hostage. The PIIGS, it would seem, can.

Note: Ha! Had a power outage 6 hours ago (mini hurricane here in Toronto--things going down everywhere). Computer goes down a few seconds before I'm about to hit "Post Reply". But I start FF back up, sure enough it has my entire post memorized.

Hear hear for Firefox!

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

A mini hurricane.. WOW. It was warm and sunny here, perfect day almost.

The problem being that 14% on a 2 year note didn't seem to be a real deterrent to Greece and Italy in particular. In Greece's case, they'd take 50% at the lending window so long as they had a realistic expectation they could borrow at 60% tomorrow to pay it back.

IDK about that. As soon as Italy's borrowing costs stated to go up this last little while, it lead to a lot of jitters in the markets, and then France. Borrowing at 14%+ is definitely weighing on Greece.

I understand your joke about the rising cost of borrowing benefiting the borrower, however it's just that. Once you get to a certain level the % is unsustainable, right?

I agree that the checks were supposed to be the interests rates.. However for the longest time Greece was allowed to borrow at 0% basically even when their debt to GDP was really high after the financial crisis, and they should have started rearranging their finances.

Since all members would sign it, if the countries balance sheets weren't kept up(yearly audits) they would be forced to borrow from the ESFS at a higher cost as to avoid running into situation where it is say, and not do, because we are still getting money cheap. This is the difference. It forces the default off the table almost..

The money made on the spread between bonds could be used to re capitalize the banks in Europe, namely the ones borrowing from the ESFS. They could also expand the ESFS starting right away because the money is already there. Start issuing bonds tomorrow, by the end of the year, they could raise 100-150 billion extra for the fund.

But these are all just my thoughts...

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Aug 22, 2011 1:32:48 GMT -5 Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger said:

I agree that the checks were supposed to be the interests rates.. However for the longest time Greece was allowed to borrow at 0% basically even when their debt to GDP was really high after the financial crisis, and they should have started rearranging their finances.

I should have added, that the PIGGS should have been borrowing at higher costs already before the finical crisis, this would have avoided the problem getting so far out of control in the first place.

[Small Biz Owner]

No sir, it doesn't surprise me at all that Uncle Sam says "you'll buy our paper and like it" while the Chinese politicians grit their teeth and nod.

Reminds me of the old saying "if you owe the bank $100 it is your problem. If you owe the bank $100 million it is the banks problem." China is the bank

[bimetalaupt]

Aug 21, 2011 17:36:23 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

It takes the debtors off the markets and away from the vigilantes but MAKES them act responsible. Up until now they could say whatever they wanted, and do the opposite. If the ESFS.. AKA the other eruo members, control their interest rates it will make them follow the guide lines set out.

This would be my main sticking point.

In theory, interest rates were supposed to be the check and balance in the current system. PIIGS go on a binge, rates on their debt go into the stratosphere, austerity ensues. The problem being that 14% on a 2 year note didn't seem to be a real deterrent to Greece and Italy in particular. In Greece's case, they'd take 50% at the lending window so long as they had a realistic expectation they could borrow at 60% tomorrow to pay it back.

The "bondedness" of bonds, in terms of their terms' ability to influence spending behaviour, didn't afford the lenders the sway they thought it would. That will be the case in any system where the lending party has a significant investment in the borrower. You or I could never get away with holding a bank hostage. The PIIGS, it would seem, can.

Note: Ha! Had a power outage 6 hours ago (mini hurricane here in Toronto--things going down everywhere). Computer goes down a few seconds before I'm about to hit "Post Reply". But I start FF back up, sure enough it has my entire post memorized.

Hear hear for Firefox!

Virgil,
Great Point!!K4U and A++.. Well it is nice being debt free. . Free from the banksters ( Flow5 saying) and the rest of the Rat Pack of Loan Sharks!! .. I rather be working for my family then them!!

Just a thought to all.. Great post K4 all of you!!! Well as before Nestle is worth more then all the German Banks together!!!

Bi Metal Au Pt

and for me

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

I rather be working for my family then them!!

Great call!!! More.. 4u!!! Nestle should buy half the German banking system..

[bimetalaupt]

Aug 26, 2011 1:46:45 GMT -5 Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger said:

I rather be working for my family then them!!

Great call!!! More.. 4u!!! Nestle should buy half the German banking system..

Agree !! Like the Chocolate K4U round too

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

The more intertwined we are the better! Organic really!

[bimetalaupt]

Aug 30, 2011 1:26:06 GMT -5 Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger said:

The more intertwined we are the better! Organic really!

A++,
Yes we have 100% organic Regent.. The new Hybrid from Germany that makes a great Large P.N. style spicy organic wine!!!! Well .. Bug removal by Geese. Problem is my goose like the good and bad all the same.

I have mixed Regent with the Merlot in 5%, 10%, 15% and 20%.. It does add to the complexity like the Bordeaux mixtures.
Now for the bottom line.. You take two bottles of wine each worth $15 and end up with a Bordeaux .. Right bank worth $40.00.. that is a $25.00 profit!!! That is how the Rothschild do it.

Now you get a 99-100 Parker rating and you have a $142 bottle of "HOUCH" you made in a Mason jar for mixing percentages.. We call it Lab Wine but the French call it The Garagistes .

With all the Wine classes at Dijon and Davis most of the new ideas in Red Wine making are blending the French with American wine masters.

OK back to banking and the wine industry.. Steve Adams is looking for a deal in estates as most of the French Wine estates are Mortgaged to the Hilt at the Second Largest bank in France. This is one reason the Stephen Adams thinks he can get a real good deal on a "Left Bank wine estate as the whole French banking systems is in hot water and some of the wine estates are over leveraged.

Stephen Adams, an American billionaire who made his fortune in banking, billboards and recreational vehicles is apparently on the lookout to make a major purchase on Bordeaux's left bank, according to recent articles on bloomberg.com and decanter.com. He already owns six estates on the right bank, including the flagship Saint-Emilion Grand Cru Classé, Château Fonplegade (www.fonplegade.com), which, according to bloomberg.com, he acquired for just under 30 million Euros in 2004 and on which he has spent a further 5 million Euros in renovations.

He know a real deal.. And a deep recession is a "BADDD" thing to waste. It is all about banking and it is nice to own the banks like Stephen Adams or David Rothschild.

Just a thought,
Bi Metal Au Pt

round for all but me.. I get the Shameless self promotion by Bruce

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[bimetalaupt]

Now we talking .. remove a lot of capital from the banking system.. That sure will help the small banks find people to lend all that money to. So who at Fannie and Freddie did any DD?

NEW YORK (AP) -- The government on Friday sued 17 financial firms , including the largest U.S. banks, for selling Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac billions of dollars worth of mortgage-backed securities that turned toxic when the housing market collapsed.

Among those targeted by the lawsuits were Bank of America Corp., Citigroup Inc., JP Morgan Chase & Co., and Goldman Sachs Group Inc. Large European banks including The Royal Bank of Scotland, Barclays Bank and Credit Suisse were also sued.

The lawsuits were filed by the Federal Housing Finance Agency. It oversees Fannie and Freddie, the two agencies that buy mortgages loans and mortgage securities issued by the lenders.

The total price tag for the mortgage-backed securities sold to Fannie and Freddie by the firms named in the lawsuits: $196 billion.

The government didn't say how much it is seeking in damages. It said it wants to have the securities sales canceled and wants to be compensated for lost principal, interest payments as well as for attorney fees.

The government action is a big blow to the banks, many of which have seen their stock prices fall to levels not seen since the financial crisis in 2008 and 2009. Until now, the stocks have been undermined mostly by unrelated worries about the U.S. and European economies.
finance.yahoo.com/news/Feds-sue-big-banks-over-sales-apf-3066897747.html?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=2&asset=&ccode=

TALKING ABOUT INCREASING UNCERTAINTY.. THIS HAS MADE UNCERTAINTY UNCERTAIN TO THE MAXI .. BACK THE HOARDING OF CASH GOLDEN....!!

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Sept 3, 2011 17:51:53 GMT -5 @wxyz said:

Bi

I know this is weird. But......I would like to hear more about your grandfather. (I think it is your grandfather that you mention once in a while?) He sounds like a great businessman and one of those rare people that has influence on his family for many generations. If there is a way to tell his story without disclosing too much personal information, especially his business story, philosophy, challenges, etc, I would be interested and there might be some helpful info there for others on here that are business men and women and investors.

It is possible to learn a lot from the past generations. Although some times I think that the modern younger generations have lost track of that. (through no fault of their own, just a result of the fast, tech, era we are in)

Well wxyz one thing I know for sure... I always make money because I sell to soon..

Aug 30, 2011 12:47:08 GMT -5 bimetalaupt said:

Aug 30, 2011 1:26:06 GMT -5 Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger said:

The more intertwined we are the better! Organic really!

A++,
Yes we have 100% organic Regent.. The new Hybrid from Germany that makes a great Large P.N. style spicy organic wine!!!! Well .. Bug removal by Geese. Problem is my goose like the good and bad all the same.

I have mixed Regent with the Merlot in 5%, 10%, 15% and 20%.. It does add to the complexity like the Bordeaux mixtures.
Now for the bottom line.. You take two bottles of wine each worth $15 and end up with a Bordeaux .. Right bank worth $40.00.. that is a $25.00 profit!!! That is how the Rothschild do it.

Now you get a 99-100 Parker rating and you have a $142 bottle of "HOUCH" you made in a Mason jar for mixing percentages.. We call it Lab Wine but the French call it The Garagistes .

With all the Wine classes at Dijon and Davis most of the new ideas in Red Wine making are blending the French with American wine masters.

OK back to banking and the wine industry.. Steve Adams is looking for a deal in estates as most of the French Wine estates are Mortgaged to the Hilt at the Second Largest bank in France. This is one reason the Stephen Adams thinks he can get a real good deal on a "Left Bank wine estate as the whole French banking systems is in hot water and some of the wine estates are over leveraged.

Stephen Adams, an American billionaire who made his fortune in banking, billboards and recreational vehicles is apparently on the lookout to make a major purchase on Bordeaux's left bank, according to recent articles on bloomberg.com and decanter.com. He already owns six estates on the right bank, including the flagship Saint-Emilion Grand Cru Classé, Château Fonplegade (www.fonplegade.com), which, according to bloomberg.com, he acquired for just under 30 million Euros in 2004 and on which he has spent a further 5 million Euros in renovations.

He know a real deal.. And a deep recession is a "BADDD" thing to waste. It is all about banking and it is nice to own the banks like Stephen Adams or David Rothschild.

Just a thought,
Bi Metal Au Pt

round for all but me.. I get the Shameless self promotion by Bruce

This is exactly why we need to see a VC bank, aka a Secondary Reserve! Lots of great projects all over the US that will take $15 and create $125.

4 Trillion in money that doesn't' have to be printed, 20% going into the stock/bond markets, and 80% going into main street. Makes that 196 Billion the banks have to pay look small! Especially when you factor in consistent deposits for tax credits from the corporations and wealthy people.

Plus the banks deserve the k4u

[tyfighter3]

How many acres of land that the US Government( We the People) have and how much oil and gas do we have under them? Why don't we let the Oil Company's drill for it and the US Government ( We the People) can tell them we want 25% of the proceeds from the sale of the oil and gas out of them. We can put that 25% into a fund where at the end of the year we could pay every tax payer up to 75% of it a equal share and the rest of it we could put into Research for Greener Energy projects.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

TALKING ABOUT INCREASING UNCERTAINTY.. THIS HAS MADE UNCERTAINTY UNCERTAIN TO THE MAXI .. BACK THE HOARDING OF CASH GOLDEN....!!

I was looking through my posts but couldn't find the one where I was saying they were hording because of trouble..


This makes things clearer. I have maintained for a while that banks were hoarding cash because they were waiting to see how this mortgage mess played out. We are getting closer to the end of the housing problem. The banks and sovereign funds are apparently going to buy a large part of the houses on the govt books as well, per the Discussion on the 2011 housing bottom thread.

196 Billion from a few trillion, and the back log cleared up, and now they know where they stand, that is clarity , that's why I posted the banks being charges story on the market up for 2011 thread. This will also restore confidence to a point, JMO.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Sept 4, 2011 1:12:00 GMT -5 tyfighter3 said:

How many acres of land that the US Government( We the People) have and how much oil and gas do we have under them? Why don't we let the Oil Company's drill for it and the US Government ( We the People) can tell them we want 25% of the proceeds from the sale of the oil and gas out of them. We can put that 25% into a fund where at the end of the year we could pay every tax payer up to 75% of it a equal share and the rest of it we could put into Research for Greener Energy projects.

IDK how it works for you guys, but here we sell the drilling rights on the land to the oil companies, then they have to pay royalties on the oil to the province where it is drilled. Those Royalties fill the coffers and the taxpayers benefit because there is money to pay for things.

What your talking about it what I am proposing basically. Except we start out with the money that the corporations have been hoarding.. Then we allow them to lower their tax rates by depositing(investing) in the Secondary reserve system with the profits they make off of the people. The secondary reserve system is designed to help every man woman and child because it provides urban renewal/infrastructural jobs long term. These of course are good middle class paying jobs.

The system also invests in these corporations keeping them happy and keeping the stockholders happy because there is guaranteed support for the US economy through economic support and market support.