Now they want to give Military Pensions to Wall St

[Deleted]

Aug 17, 2011 10:11:19 GMT -5 Small Biz Owner said:

We have already gone over this, got Alzheimer's?

No problem.

No fees deducted from any Federal pension, including those of the Armed Forces.

I knew the government was super efficient. Must be why I am a big government radical leftwing liberal.

[Deleted]

Aug 17, 2011 10:11:19 GMT -5 Small Biz Owner said:

We have already gone over this, got Alzheimer's?

No problem.

No fees deducted from any Federal pension, including those of the Armed Forces.

By the way, my point aside, just have the government pick up the fees.

[decoy409]

Small Biz Owner, you are a bright person but I don't understand what you are trying to say back there as,

"It is giving part of Soldiers retirement to Wall Street. Even if the exact retirement amount was paid to every service member as the current pension pays, a percent would go to a Wall Street Fund Manager, leaving less money for the service members retirement.

Smart idea to shortchange service members retirement?"

[Small Biz Owner]

By the way, my point aside, just have the government pick up the fees.

Lets see how your idea makes any sense.

Government sends checks to a Wall Street 401k Mutual Fund manager, instead of retiree, and then have the government pay the Mutual Fund manger fees on top of that?

So you use the same procedures twice, and this double expense is supposed to save money?

[Deleted]

Aug 17, 2011 10:24:55 GMT -5 Small Biz Owner said:

By the way, my point aside, just have the government pick up the fees.

Lets see how your idea makes any sense.

Government sends checks to a Wall Street 401k Mutual Fund manager, instead of retiree, and then have the government pay the Mutual Fund manger fees on top of that?

So you use the same procedures twice, and this double expense is supposed to save money?

I will also collect a fee for coming up with this idea, so triple the expenses.

[Small Biz Owner]

Decoy, maybe I did not word it as clearly as I could have. We now send a pension check to Federal retirees, Military included. Nothing is deducted from the pension to the retiree.

If a 401k is used instead of a pension, then the retiree would get less money, because the 401k Plan would deduct fees from the retiree for managing the plan.

Mostly I think this is a plan being pushed by Wall Street lobbyists to increase their bottom line. After all, most civilian employees are already in a 401k plan. Government pensions are the only market share they have left to go after.

[Deleted]

Aug 17, 2011 10:30:52 GMT -5 Small Biz Owner said:

Decoy, maybe I did not word it as clearly as I could have. We now send a pension check to Federal retirees, Military included. Nothing is deducted from the pension to the retiree.

If a 401k is used instead of a pension, then the retiree would get less money, because the 401k Plan would deduct fees from the retiree for managing the plan.

Mostly I think this is a plan being pushed by Wall Street lobbyists to increase their bottom line. After all, most civilian employees are already in a 401k plan. Government pensions are the only market share they have left to go after.

A 401k plan (outsourced to a private 401k administration company) would be more efficiently run than a government pension, so net, it would cost less money for the government leaving more money available for buying weapons and sending them to mexican drug lords.

[decoy409]

Small Biz Owner, what's the beef? It's all just fine as the good old casino needs military! Just look at the stocks from the leaders of destruction and all the great 21st century stuff going on from the air we breathe to the food we eat.

Hell where were you when they were experimenting on 'spent' munitions in the air and creating mock Guillain-Barre syndrome over at the desert storm inn? Why you were there as you say.

And that's the good old red,white and blue and the wonderful world of creation. Heck when you absorb that look at how handy those same scientific studies (from what was found from the effects of spent munitions) aid in the man made Weather Modification.

Why am I bringing this stuff up? Simple.why complain about a pension and so forth when it is all being used for good cause.

One simply can not take bits and pieces and try to assimilate them 'only' into their life without reflecting on the overall and the overall effects from.
This stuff has gone on year in and year out,so no use in fighting it. Just go with the flow or you will be going against your own country and you were not trained to be doing that.

[decoy409]

Small Biz Owner, I have no fouls or beef with you. I simply do not understand why one would be concerned with such as you are speaking of when you fight to represent the system we our working here at home and abroad.

[frep]

I must be confused on how military pensions work. Every pension I know of is already invested in the "market", so wall street would already be getting their cut.

[decoy409]

frep, well said.

[Deleted]

Just as the civilian population retirement plans are changing, so must the government ones

The old system worked fine for a long time. My father draws a government pension from 26 years military, and another 23 years of civilian service. A total of 49 years of service, and he retired for good at age of 65.

But the same problem of longevity that forced pensions to change for the civilian sector, will force the same changes to the military and government sector.

And twenty years of service, though admirable, should not grant 40-50 years of payments. Think about it....a young man or woman joins military at 18 yrs old. Serves 20 years, and RETIRES at 38 years old. Under the current system, that person may draw a pension for 50 years or more.

The numbers do not work anymore. Same reason why companies had to forego pensions.....people are living longer, and the cost of all the retirees were becoming unbearable.

I am not sure if 401k plans are the answer, but times change. People are living longer, and the cost of maintaining the old archaic systems is not sustainable.

[usaone]

K for G.

[Small Biz Owner]

Hell where were you when they were experimenting on 'spent' munitions in the air and creating mock Guillain-Barre syndrome over at the desert storm inn?

In the forward troop movement area, on the flanking front.

Why you were there as you say.

Following orders. As my oath of service required me to do. 82nd Airborne, into Iraq all the way up to Tallil Iraq.

[decoy409]

gdgyva,

"And twenty years of service, though admirable, should not grant 40-50 years of payments. Think about it....a young man or woman joins military at 18 yrs old. Serves 20 years, and RETIRES at 38 years old. Under the current system, that person may draw a pension for 50 years or more."

gdgyva, why that PONZI sounds familiar with a current running one in regards to 'collective bargaining.'

Then we are back to the game mathematicians figuring things out once again and how there is room for all as long as the cookie jar is not raided ahead of time.

[Small Biz Owner]

Think about it....a young man or woman joins military at 18 yrs old. Serves 20 years, and RETIRES at 38 years old

Yes think about it, please do.... I have more than one friend lost in the past 20 yrs of service to America.

Now you want to change the terms of our contracts to serve? After we took an oath to protect you, with our lives?

[Small Biz Owner]

USA1 I expected better from you.

[decoy409]

Small Biz Owner, you did catch my rant as to behind the scenes. Don't expect 'exactly' as you might as this game is about the love of greed,power,control,and shifting of the chess pieces to get to it.

[frep]

Nod Wall Street is already getting their cut, they could care less if it's a pension or individual 401k's. This possible change is about cutting costs, plain and simple.

[lifewasgood]

And twenty years of service, though admirable, should not grant 40-50 years of payments. Think about it....a young man or woman joins military at 18 yrs old. Serves 20 years, and RETIRES at 38 years old. Under the current system, that person may draw a pension for 50 years or more.

Those of you that have not walk in military boots, have no idea what the F*&K you are talking about. The pay and allowance for active military is so far below civilian counterparts its a ridiculous argument. The benefit working underpaid, putting life on line, sacrificing family, sacrificing body for 20-30 years is a retirement check for the rest of your life.

Professional athletes make millions sacrificing body for 10-15 years and have an opportunity to become extremely wealthy, ala Michael Jordon as an example.

I have watched the last 20 years of 401K disasters. Constitutionally, the Federal Government is charged with Common defense of the country. Defense should not be outsourced in any fashion. Look what happened when DOD outsourced medical care. Retirees ended up paying after decades of promises of Free health care for life.

[Small Biz Owner]

lifewasgood, wxyz you stated it more elegantly than I ever could have. Thank you. You are both Exalted.

wxyz as soon as 59 more minutes pass

[Deleted]

I don't think we need to worry about military pensions changing to 401k type plans. It makes too much sense.

[Deleted]

And you both are WRONG

I joined in 1979. I served active active for 6 years...and have all the respect in the world for veterans

I understand exactly what they give up...and what they are called upon to do...i was a navy brat, and my father was gone in Nam for most of my early years. Three tours...and two purple hearts later, he finally came home for good. He was a corpsman...and he was ALWAYS with the marines.

I was in Beirut the day after the marine barracks was bombed. Though i never saw "combat" as some would say, i understand a little of what our troops go through....so i truly do understand the sacrifice our troops go through...and some of what they endure

But that being said....i also understand that the system is now BROKE. I didnt break it...but it is broke all the same. We are a volunteer force.....and those that serve "understand" what it takes to raise their right hand, and pledge their everything for their country.

We need to fix the system for the long haul. I am not saying 401k plans are the answer....but the miltary is a huge drain on our budget, and we need to look at everything to fix our financial problems

There are no easy answers....but retiring after 20 years with a 50% pension has to change

[Small Biz Owner]

I don't think we need to worry about military pensions changing to 401k type plans. It makes too much sense.

Only to the armchair quarterbacks, who have never served a day in the military, or had the shared the personal sacrifices, to enable you to be able to post your opinions in a FREE country.

We are a volunteer force.....and those that serve "understand" what it takes to raise their right hand, and pledge their everything for their country.

And along with taking that pledge, we all signed a contract, which spelled out all the terms, including a military pension. NOT a 401K plan.

[Deleted]

Aug 17, 2011 12:31:28 GMT -5 Small Biz Owner said:

I don't think we need to worry about military pensions changing to 401k type plans. It makes too much sense.

Only to the armchair quarterbacks, who have never served a day in the military, or had the shared the personal sacrifices, to enable you to be able to post your opinions in a FREE country.

Thank you! We live in best damn country the world has ever known!!!!

[Small Biz Owner]

Thank you!

On behalf of all our military, and myself, you are welcome. Proud to serve my time, and sacrifices, for our freedoms.

[Deleted]

Small biz

I understand your reluctance.....change is not easy

And those that are currently serving will need some assurances that they will be taken care of....i am not talking about changing the rules for someone who has served over 10 years at all....they should be grandfathered in with the old plan

But those just joining, or those that havent yet signed up, that is where we need to start adjusting our thinking

Again...the system is broke...and will need to be changed.

To what....i am not sure. But as a fiscal conservative, we have to put our house in order.....

And this is just some of the changes that will need to come to fruition

[Small Biz Owner]

gdgyva, I agree with your post. Almost entirely. Since you also unselfishly served, you have a better understanding, and my respect for your opinion weighs more with me. I too am a fiscal conservative. Your points have merit, let me take some time to consider them.

[Deleted]

Wxyz


Agree with most of that

Defense is important.

But do we really need bases all over the world?

Do we need every ship we have?

A lot of what we spend is to defense contractors...for the newest designs and tech. I agree we need to stay ahead of our competition, but at what cost?

Defense, medicare, social security....these are the 3 gorilla's in the room

They will all have to have changes made.....

[Deleted]

Aug 17, 2011 13:47:49 GMT -5 Small Biz Owner said:

gdgyva, I agree with your post. Almost entirely. Since you also unselfishly served,

Unselfish, until you touch my pension!