thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Aug 9, 2011 10:41:37 GMT -5
So, your stance is that you only buy gifts for friends that don't need them?
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Aug 9, 2011 10:42:26 GMT -5
We went with a glider/recliner. It replaced my grandfather's giant recliner that took up half the living room.
Cloth diapers were one of the best gifts I got. I don't cloth diaper but they make awesome burp clothes, kitchen towels etc. They've also held up extremely well thru what seems like a million washings.
If I am invited to a baby shower I plan on giving a package to the new mom, so handy to have even if you use disposables.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Aug 9, 2011 11:02:57 GMT -5
Some people find it easier to say "My husband says I can't give you money for food" than to stand up on their own and be the "bad guy".
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Aug 9, 2011 11:19:52 GMT -5
I do! ;D
Frugal, I think the point is - you cannot make your friend see reality. There is absolutely nothing you can do/say that is going to get the response you're looking for - which seems to be "OMG, you're right, what was I thinking? I need to sell everything and move into a nice apartment and be a great mother to my baby."
Maybe she will get her head on straight and do a wonderful job raising her child. Maybe she won't.
But if you are looking for magic words to snap her out of it, you won't find them here, because they don't exist. The best you can do is either extricate yourself from the situation (even if you've already involved yourself, it's never too late to get out) or do your best to help her within the limit of your patience/resources.
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reader79
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Post by reader79 on Aug 9, 2011 12:43:33 GMT -5
It is my concern as to how she pays for food, etc., because she made it my concern, when she called me saying how there was no food in the house and asking me to buy lunch for her entire family. Had she not asked me to do that, I wouldn't feel it was my concern. So what did they do for the next meal - if there was no food for lunch, how did they eat dinner? And so on, and so forth. I used to drive myself crazy buying stuff for my sister when she was pregnant and the baby was little. Until I realized that her and my BIL were using their money to finance going out, his drinking and cigarettes, etc. The last straw was when she 'needed' to borrow $40 until payday, and then accidentally mentioned later that she had gone out with a friend and got manicures. Ummmm, I don't even pay someone to do my own nails, but I'm paying for someone elses? And why can't she move back into her house? It doesn't matter if he bought it before they were married - they are married now, and she is pregnant, and he is living elsewhere from what you said. If he gets upset about it, she may even have grounds for a restraining order. Heck, she can sue him for it in the divorce. But i'm thinking that this move of hers is also some sort of head game with him, to try to shame him into dropping the GF and trying to woo her to come back. Stranger things have happened.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Aug 9, 2011 12:52:11 GMT -5
Until I realized that her and my BIL were using their money to finance going out, his drinking and cigarettes, etc. The last straw was when she 'needed' to borrow $40 until payday, and then accidentally mentioned later that she had gone out with a friend and got manicures. Ummmm, I don't even pay someone to do my own nails, but I'm paying for someone elses? I told DH that my brother got him by telling him he needed "gas to get to interviews". Would he have given him money if my brother had said "I need money for pot"? Hell no! But that is where the money for gas was going. He came to us to get gas money so he could use HIS money for pot. Your friend came to you to show off her new Halloween costume she just bought. She then comes to you saying she can't afford food. See the disconnect here? I am betting she knows she can tug on your heartstrings by playing poor pregnant woman. I really seriously doubt she would have starved if you had not given her food/money for lunch that day. And if she did, maybe just MAYBE she would have reconsidered purchasing stuff like halloween costumes when she can't afford food. This chick is manipulating you.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Aug 9, 2011 12:56:16 GMT -5
Reader & DQ... Frugal, if you want her to give up her iPhone, car payment, etc., paying for lunches and buying her diapers is NOT the way to go about it - that just gives her that much more money to spend on not-baby-things. You may not be able to emotionally extricate yourself from the situation, but I'd advise against any financial help, at least if you want her to get to a point where she realizes things need to change.
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mizbear
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Post by mizbear on Aug 9, 2011 13:01:42 GMT -5
My ex-SIL and DB are the same kind of manipulative people, only their children are much older and unfortunately they stay just enough on the right side of the law that we can't do anything about them- however- that doesn't mean you shouldn't be concerned. Manipulative adults often use their children as tools of manipulation and WILL neglect them to some degree or another to get what they want.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Aug 9, 2011 13:10:14 GMT -5
I didn't say she should not be concerned. I said don't become this woman's bank/life support. HUGE difference.
If Frugal goes off buying her diapers/formula/lunch/whatever she "needs" at the moment the chick isn't ever going to learn. Bank of Frugal is going to be taking care of her and her child.
There is the state, her parents and the father of her child who should all be stepping up before Frugal does. The best thing Frugal can do finanical wise is not to buy her stuff but to point her in the direction of the aid she needs. If she works in a low income clinic it can't be that darn hard to find someone to help her apply.
She can be a supportive concerned friend WITHOUT stockpiling diapers and wipes for this person. All taht does is teach her that she can buy halloween costumes, I-phones and SUVS and there will always be someone else there to pick up what she drops.
Either way she's not providing for the kid, someone else is doing it for her at theri expense.
Call me cold hearted if you want, but I wouldn't be contributing a dime. I'd make a nice shower gift of a bunch of diapers in various sizes so she has a stockpile and that is IT when it comes to me giving her anything beyond emotional support.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Aug 9, 2011 13:12:10 GMT -5
I agree that the proper response to "I don't have money to buy food" is "Maybe you should start the divorce papers so you can access WIC and this won't happen again."
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skubikky
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Post by skubikky on Aug 9, 2011 13:12:14 GMT -5
This "girl" doesn't appear to have much common sense(she sounds like a half wit). I would MYOB. I mean it. It's not your responsibility to save her. She has family that she can turn to. LEAVE IT ALONE. She has already involved me. We are close enough friends that she knows I'm in a good financial position. She knows my income (heck, DH and I both work for a public university, so anyone who wants it knows our income). She knows that I am someone to turn to for advice. She has already started with the mooching (called me while I was on my way to help her move to ask me if I could pick uo some lunch for her. Then mentioned her parents, grandmother, and 2 sibling were there and didn't have any food either.) She also knows that babies are my soft spot and I'm not going to let one suffer. So I can't MMOB. You're making a willful decision to involve yourself in a situation that will only drain you of time, energy and resources. Now the blame is one you, not her. Get ready....here it comes.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Aug 9, 2011 13:16:28 GMT -5
I will give benefit of the doubt that she might not be deliberately manipulating but is just plain stupid. DH was stupid, his parents are the type to always bail out their children so he never learned and naturally assumed I'd pick up where his parents left off.
He got a few swift kicks in the ass finanically that I refused to help him with (this was before we were married) and it finally sunk in that he needed to grow up and learn to provide for himself.
Op's friend is never going to grow up and become a stellar mom as long as she knows that someone else is going to be there to do all those things for her while she continues to live her single child free days off on the side.
She may never be a good mom, that's a risk that will be took, but you can't let yourself be emotionally blackmailed into being someone else's umblicial cord.
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mizbear
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Post by mizbear on Aug 9, 2011 13:47:40 GMT -5
I have a question for the posters who are flaming frugal... I don't want to see your answers, I just want you to think very, very hard about this.
If this situation were different and there was undeniable evidence of abuse or neglect or that the mother was medically or otherwise incapacitated- would you still be flaming frugal for her concern? Would you still be saying MYOB?
Maybe I see it differently because of my nieces. Maybe I see it differently because MYOB and don't get involved were what people said about me when my father was abusing me. Do I think that OP should give financial support to friend- no. Do I think she should walk away? Only if necessary.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Aug 9, 2011 13:50:01 GMT -5
If the situation were different, my response would probably be different. But based on what Frugal has posted, my response is to withhold the financial support and continue the emotional support - to the extent she is able.
The baby isn't even born yet... making plans of action based on what COULD happen doesn't solve the issue of what FN should do now.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 9, 2011 13:54:45 GMT -5
Bottom line, it isn't her life or her baby or even her husband that is the issue but she wants to make it her issue and give the "friend" the benefit of her advice. Said friend doesn't really want advice, she wants MONEY and STUFF for the baby and herself. Things that she and the baby's father should provide. She chose to marry a cheater, get pregnant by him, and now sings the blues? Hello. What would we say to anyone who said this in normal times? She tricked a bad man and now is in trouble, big surprise. I don't believe her lawyer is saying these things. If so, she needs a new lawyer.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Aug 9, 2011 13:55:01 GMT -5
I've never said she should walk away if she doesn't want to. I think she is getting too emotionally involved in the whole thing. The goal should be trying to get this woman to be independent for herself and her kid, not replace the husband with Frugal.
You can't save people from themselves. All you can do is express your concern and give them the tools so they can eventually steer themselves in the right direction (like giving her the number for the WIC office, or free legal aid because her lawyer sounds like a jok).
If there is actual abuse or neglect that is a totally different matter all together.
All we have from the OP though is this woman is living in a "shack" as she puts it and spends money on a halloween costume rather than stockpiling diapers and has the idea she'll be able to go clubbing 2 weeks after birth. Oh and owns an I-phone and an SUV
That is HARDLY a case of neglect/abuse of a child. We have nothing besides that she sounds like she might not be the brighest crayon in the box and has misguided ideas of what it'll be like after the kid is born.
The OP doesn't have to run around trying to save this woman from herself. Honestly to me it sounds more like Frugal has created the situation she is in now more than her friend has, her friend is along for the ride now that she realizes how invested Frugal is.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 9, 2011 13:57:47 GMT -5
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Aug 9, 2011 14:02:57 GMT -5
You cannot control anyone else's behavior. You can only control your reaction to this behavior.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Aug 9, 2011 14:03:18 GMT -5
Even planning for a kid I had notions of what my life was going to be like post child that quickly got turned upside down. You can't really know till the child is here. I am really glad no one decided to try to "educate" me thinking I would be endangering it if they didn't impart their advice. I am still learning. I am finding there isn't enough baby proofing in the world, the kid still finds something to stick in her mouth. I suppose some people think I am endangering her by not having every piece of furniture bolted to the wall. The OP needs to step back and logically look at the situation. Her heart is in the right place but she's getting WAAAAAAAAAAAAY too involved in this woman's life and it's very hard to get yourself out of it once you are in that deep.
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mizbear
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Post by mizbear on Aug 9, 2011 14:14:36 GMT -5
I get what everyone is trying to say- and dq- you are right there is NO amount of babyproofing in the world...- what worked for me, didn't work for my cousin, but worked for another cousin, but didn't work on my niece, etc. And I get the whole "we have no baby yet". I have some doubts as far as the lawyer too. And why I asked if she had seen a counselor- I wonder if there is something else going on.
I have had multiple miscarriages- and finally got told, there will be no baby. People that do this stuff irritate me no end. Some of them will straighten out, some of them will not. My fear is that the baby will end up surrounded by a town full of MYOBs like I did with POS parents. Maybe being raised the way I was makes me too close.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Aug 9, 2011 14:21:41 GMT -5
Well there is MYOB to the point of your case and there is getting as heavily emotionally involved as the OP sounds like she is getting.
Both are on opposite ends of a very large spectrum of involvement.
Honestly, IMO, the OP would be better served giving the woman the number to the Department of Human Services, pointing out she works at a low income clinic, they probably can help her and give her a number for a free legal aid hotline to get a second opinion. And MAYBE offer if she ever wants help sorting out her post divorce budget that the OP would be glad to help.
THAT's as far as I would go with it personally. Doesn't mean I would not support my friend, but that's about as deep as my actual involvement would get. Then like I said I'd probably do a present of a stockpile of diapers in various sizes so she has a bag as the kid grows.
The OP is getting sucked into actually trying to run this woman's life based on her posts. You can't chagne someone, no amount of talking about how expensive that travel system is and gee do you think you could afford an I-phone AND a travel system is going to make it sink in.
She's setting herself up to be this woman's lifeline, as evidence by the fact that she showed up looking for food/money after blowing hers. That's only the START and it will continue to go downhill. The OP is not saving or getting anything to sink in, she is ENABLING.
All that will make it sink in is if she has to sink. I still do not think just based on what we read the child is in danger of any real neglect or mistreatment that would call for intervention on anyone's behalf.
I think the OP has in her mind how it is going to go down based on the current picture she is presented by her friend (and I will say it again, she sounds a few bananas short of a bunch, I'd take a lot of what she says with a grain of salt).
If she can afford a costume, she can afford food. The OP isn't thinking that way though, she's getting too far into it emotionally.
It's fine to be supportive but you need to think with your head FIRST.
I am on the tail end of being sucked too far into someone's drama and it is not the first time it has happened to me. So if I sound harsh it is because I am at the end of the drama and the picture from where I am sitting from isn't pretty.
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mizbear
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Post by mizbear on Aug 9, 2011 14:30:28 GMT -5
dq- I found the bananas... They're going clubbing. JUst like my ex-SIL, she can afford a $200 cell, she can afford school clothes and supplies...
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Aug 9, 2011 14:39:24 GMT -5
It probably helped DH and I that we were pretty much homebodies to begin with. Nothing much to "sacrifice" in terms of having a life pre-kid. I had the brilliant idea three weeks post partum to go to the State Fair. Yeah, I ended up getting sick because I couldn't walk that much in the heat. That's a 2 hour drive we'll never get back. I didn't know I couldn't though until we actually did it. The OP's friend might be selfish, but at the same time she could just be a naive soon to be mom who doesn't realize how big a monkey wrench babies and birth are.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Aug 9, 2011 14:48:20 GMT -5
Most likely both.
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skubikky
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Post by skubikky on Aug 9, 2011 14:48:21 GMT -5
No one has jurisdiction over someone else. I suspect that frugal has a history with this girl. Based on this history of poor choices and utter stupidity....it is highly likely that frugal has shared her concerns at other times and been ignored.
Is it sad that an infant will be brought into this situation? Yes. But frugal has no influence here. Her friend wants her to be a source of money, time and anything else she can provide, excluding counsel.
If her situation is that desperate this girl should go back and live with her DH. She'd have shelter, food and warmth. Her safety and that of the baby's takes precedence over whether or not her DH has been cheating!
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Aug 9, 2011 14:52:41 GMT -5
Most likely both. Probably. I am just trying to be "balanced" in my discussion. If it was me I'd drop her like a hot potato because the mooching has already begun. But I've already been sucked in and fooled twice. If I do it a third time my DH has permission to literally smack some sense into me.
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Frugal Nurse
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Post by Frugal Nurse on Aug 9, 2011 15:14:48 GMT -5
Drama - you are right that by me swooping in and helping her every time she calls, she won't learn anything, I would just feel like a complete jerk telling a pregnant woman no, I won't buy you lunch or No, I can't spot you a few bucks for something you need.
Skubikky- Yes, I have a history with her. She tends to avoid the negative things in life and hope that things just work out (a trait she has apparently inherited from her parents). I tend to be the voice of reason in her life.
I guess the point of me starting this thread, which I didn't communicate so clearly, was to find ways to steer her in the right direction. We've got people from all walks of life on this board, so I thought maybe someone else would have been down this road.
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Frugal Nurse
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Post by Frugal Nurse on Aug 9, 2011 15:16:01 GMT -5
Most likely both. Probably. I am just trying to be "balanced" in my discussion. If it was me I'd drop her like a hot potato because the mooching has already begun. But I've already been sucked in and fooled twice. If I do it a third time my DH has permission to literally smack some sense into me. I have a hard time just dropping people from my life. I care about my friends, I can't just all of a sudden cut them out.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Aug 9, 2011 15:21:23 GMT -5
would just feel like a complete jerk telling a pregnant woman no, I won't buy you lunch or No, I can't spot you a few bucks for something you need.
That's understandable but like I said you need to think LOGICALLY about it. It's hard to do but remind yourself every time you find yourself reaching for your wallet that "She just bought a Halloween costume" "She has an I-phone on contract".
You get the idea. Your screen name starts with the word "Frugal". What would you say to someone who wasn't pregnant and came to you asking for lunch money after showing off their neat new clubbing outfit?
It's taken me since HS to finally get to the point of where I am unsympathetic and won't help. Again it does not mean I don't CARE.
I love my brother very much, I am just not going to invest large amounts of my time and my money into him right now because he is not interested in being fixed and gets pissed off if I try.
I'll be there arms open when he finally gets his shit together and wants help.
Until then, I stand firm and maintain my distance.
You can give her an awesome shower gift if you want to help, but I wouldn't be making a stockpile for her. She needs to learn to afford those things on her own and if she can't once again there are government programs that can get her those things.
If you continue down the path you are on frugal you are going to become her bank and end up like the friends in Cheapcat's stories and end up like me.
In the end they walk over your shell of a body and onto the next person with a bleeding heart.
You can help without enabling. You need to learn the difference.
Helping is putting her in touch with aid programs. Enabling is giving her lunch money.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Aug 9, 2011 15:22:27 GMT -5
I guess the point of me starting this thread, which I didn't communicate so clearly, was to find ways to steer her in the right direction.\|
Ever heard the phrase you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink?
That phrase applies perfectly to your friend.
It's not being a jerk to protect yourself emotionally, finanically and mentally from a friend like yours. It's called self preservation.
I tend to be the voice of reason in her life
And how well has this REALLY been working out? Hmm?
Knocked up by her cheating husband living in a shack and asking her friends for lunch money while buying halloween outfits nad using an I-phone.
Really ask yourself are you a voice of reason or are you her knight in shining armor?
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