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Post by frankq on Sept 10, 2011 13:38:00 GMT -5
The Fed responded to immediate threats to the financial system caused by governmental lack of enforcing laws and lack of proper financial oversight that various government agencies are charged with. Which by the way the FED convinced the government (Alan Greenspan and company) to become lax with banking rules and repealing banking laws. When challenged to proceed with oversight and investigation it was the FED that convinced congress to shut it down again Alan Greenspan and company. So please do not try and convince me that the FED is guiltless in this mess we are in. I'm not going to try to convince any of you guys of anything. That's impossible. The blame rests on everyone, including every individual that contributed to the trade deficit by purchasing all that "good deal" imported stuff, every person or company that turned a blind eye and hired illegals, or took out the maximum mortgage with the minimum down and actually though that their house would continue to rise 10% in value every year when wages were rising less than 3% PRETAX. Especially true in California, Nevada and Florida, which were seeing 30% annual increases. Ridiculous. Interestingly, the states with the most severe problems seem to be the "sanctuary" states. The government is oftentimes a reflection of it's citizens. I would like to see some specifics regarding your comment on how Greenspan eliminated banking oversight. As far as Greenspan goes, you might want to read this: www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/03/greenspan-scared-about-rising-debt_n_870879.html |
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Post by lifewasgood on Sept 10, 2011 13:49:39 GMT -5
The blame rests on those that set the wheels in motion for all those things you want to place blame on. Whoever controls the money takes the blame. I hold honest Americans blameless. Simply put the peoples money was given to the crocked banks after they fleeced the people. Fraud is Fraud and still no handcuffs.
Who has more power? The President of the United States or the Federal Reserve Chief? Simple the FED. Example. The President and Treasury secretary had to go to congress to get 750 billion approved and allocated for bailouts. The FED chief went to no one and issued approximately 1.3 Trillion in bailouts without congress or the president. Therefore I say the FED is more powerful, thus they take the lion share of the responsibility.
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Post by frankq on Sept 10, 2011 13:59:48 GMT -5
"I hold honest Americans blameless. Simply put the peoples money was given to the crocked banks after they fleeced the people. Fraud is Fraud and still no handcuffs."
Money "given" to banks has been 95% paid back. Many banks that didn't need the infusion of cash were forced to take it. 95% of banks in this country never saw or asked for a dime. Many of those people that were "fleeced" were college educated and now want principle reductions to cover their home value loses. Many had lawyers at their closings. All signed documents that plainly stated that their adjustable rate mortgages were just that. You want the easy way out. You want to blame everything and everybody else. Like I said, there's plenty of blame to go around. We even have these so called financial gurus telling people walk away from their homes even though they can fulfill their contractual obligations in a "strategic" forclosure! Countries around the world bought securities based on a substantial amount of subprime mortgages and did no due dilligence. You can say whatever you want, that doesn't make it true.
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Post by frankq on Sept 10, 2011 14:05:24 GMT -5
Decoy,
If you have issue with something I've stated then address it in the post I stated it in so that I may respond instead of taking my quote out of context in your "Road to Nonsense" thread where I cannot. Oh...that's right...you can't! LOL! My comment regarding the Fed and QE2 is specific to a point and time in recent history. Don't twist my words to suit your fanatical rants.
Life,
We just agree to disagree then.
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Post by lifewasgood on Sept 10, 2011 14:31:12 GMT -5
I am only pointing out that banks that lent money to someone makes it a private transaction. Therefore if it goes bad, it is not the business of the government to use public money to help one or both of the private parties in the bad transaction. Also it you look at most mortgage loan documents it clearly states that if buyer stops paying then lean holder retains property thus ending the transaction. Therefore the banks got the properties they lent against, should have never needed public money no matter if they paid it back or not. As for CDO's, they were rated AAA, need I say anything more on that subject?
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Post by lifewasgood on Sept 10, 2011 14:37:48 GMT -5
Virgil, Mods, I have no problem if you let DECOY contribute to the Reforming the Financial System thread.
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Post by frankq on Sept 10, 2011 14:44:24 GMT -5
I do. An arrangement is an arrangement. My note to Decoy was in response to a quote taken out of context from this thread. Decoy can certainly interact on the Gold or Scrum threads. He was locked into his 2 threads for a reason. You don't need any help from Decoy now, do you life?
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Post by frankq on Sept 10, 2011 14:52:52 GMT -5
"I am only pointing out that banks that lent money to someone makes it a private transaction. Therefore if it goes bad, it is not the business of the government to use public money to help one or both of the private parties in the bad transaction."
And again, it was the BIG investment banks that got the money WHICH HAS BEEN PAID BACK with interest. I'm so tired of the same "banks got my money" B.S. The money got back to the taxpayers. That argument is moot. You guys talk about getting rid of banks like it's even possible. What do you think the world economic ramifications would have been had the financial system in this country gone under. And when you talk banks remember, the government had guidelines to PROVIDE low income earners mortgages. The government saw fit to make home ownership a right! Not the Fed. Like I said about blame going around........
Ok. It's been fun but I gotta run. Say hi to Decoy for me when you P.M. him.
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Post by lifewasgood on Sept 10, 2011 15:10:08 GMT -5
Again you are deflecting the point. The government had not right to use public money for bailouts of banks or corporations. If they did, they should have extended that to all businesses not just a select few. If a bank or corporation no matter what size makes bad business decisions they should not be bailed out but instead go through bankruptcy and reorganization as any other company would. We have laws that cover bankruptcy protection. So why did that not happen? Simply put to protect you stock holders and IRA/401K/mutual funds etc etc etc. Thus once and for all killing the free market place. Again and I will keep saying it. I just want an equal playing field across the board.
I think I told this story before, but the short story is one of my small business enjoyed a $250K credit line which we used constantly and never had a problem or late payment. Then in 2008 out of nowhere are line was cut to call and ask before using and don't ask for anything over $25K. If not for my personal intervention with my money, that company would have gone under. Did anyone in the government come to our rescue. Nope instead they took nearly 120 days to pay on a 30 day net invoice worth approximately 250K. And all they could say is we are working on it and it is in the process. Guess What had the government just paid there invoice on time, I would have never put personal money in jeopardy and the company would have never gone in a stressful situation. Instead I had to hear everyday on the news about big bank and corporation bailouts using taxpayer money while I had to wait for taxpayer money owed to me. Think about that would ya.
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Post by frankq on Sept 10, 2011 15:24:19 GMT -5
"The government had not right to use public money for bailouts of banks or corporations."
They got their bank money back with interest. Looks like they're going to get the Corporate money back at a profit too. If you had an impact on millions of jobs, you would have gotten a loan too. You don't. Had the government let the banking sector fold the economy would have collapsed. You "businesses" probably would have ceased to exist. Therefore, the government did you a favor. If you don't like the government, stop doing business with them. No deflection here. You hate banks, but you want credit lines for your business? Sounds like you want all the taste but none of the calories. You obviously have no concept of the scope of the issue. Now you drag 401K's and IRA's into the mix. Laws against bankruptcy? For the banking system? Really? I never said that bank loans were right, I said it was necessary.
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Post by smackdown on Sept 10, 2011 15:30:51 GMT -5
"The government had not right to use public money for bailouts of banks or corporations."
And needs to be pressing banks and corporations not to refund the bail-outs, but to write checks for whatever it takes to recover us because there is no getting around the fact that these entities caused this recession and are holding us in it. Reform the financial sector? Why? CLOSE IT. It's just some businesses. It will be fun seeing bankers, agents, brokers and other pariah scurry around once the cheese has been moved. The components that are truly critical to Americans will be identified and thus can be salvaged. I've never met a banker who could walk and chew gum simultaneously. We ALL need to see that to illuminate who these people really are.
A reminder that-- if all financial documents became template format and the basic criteria for lending was: fixed rates, fixed terms, full amortization and a template documentation file... the weight would be on the lender for the rating, not some political middle-man like S&P or Moody or Fair Isaac. These agencies attempted homogenization and it failed. Why are they still in business? Lending has little to do with what a bank is. The return is based on a portfolio and it's ability to be integral with the terms of the paper it contains. When you make bad loans, you deserve to go out of business and to jail if you can't repay your funders.
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Post by frankq on Sept 10, 2011 15:35:02 GMT -5
" It's just some businesses. It will be fun seeing bankers, agents, brokers and other pariah scurry around once the cheese has been moved."
Yeah....Almost as funny as watching all those mortgage brokers that that helped unqualified people get no-doc, zero down mortgages scurry around......Yeah, like that never happened.....
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Post by lifewasgood on Sept 10, 2011 15:35:48 GMT -5
They got their bank money back with interest. Looks like they're going to get the Corporate money back at a profit too.
The government has no charter or constitutional authority to use public money to loan regardless if it makes profit or is paid back or not.
If you don't like the government, stop doing business with them.
I have and much much happier without there BS
You hate banks, but you want credit lines for your business?
Nope not no more, I created my own credit line and don't need the banks any longer except for business checking which is required to conduct legitimate business in this country.
You obviously have no concept of the scope of the issue.
You want to live in the USA, but not follow constitutional law as it is inconvenient and not profitable for you.
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Post by lifewasgood on Sept 10, 2011 15:45:44 GMT -5
And needs to be pressing banks and corporations not to refund the bail-outs, but to write checks for whatever it takes to recover us because there is no getting around the fact that these entities caused this recession and are holding us in it.  |
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Post by lifewasgood on Sept 10, 2011 15:49:50 GMT -5
If you had an impact on millions of jobs, you would have gotten a loan too. You don't. Had the government let the banking sector fold the economy would have collapsed. You "businesses" probably would have ceased to exist.
So the USGov gets to discriminate against small businesses? Don't we have discrimination law?
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Post by frankq on Sept 10, 2011 15:50:04 GMT -5
"You want to live in the USA, but not follow constitutional law as it is inconvenient and not profitable for you."
Really? What constitution laws don't I follow. You guys would be a lot better off if you lived in the 21st century instead if the 1700's.
"Nope not no more, I created my own credit line and don't need the banks any longer except for business checking which is required to conduct legitimate business in this country."
You "created" your own credit line? So, you lend yourself money? What kind of "businesses" are you in?
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Post by frankq on Sept 10, 2011 15:52:46 GMT -5
If you had an impact on millions of jobs, you would have gotten a loan too. You don't. Had the government let the banking sector fold the economy would have collapsed. You "businesses" probably would have ceased to exist. So the USGov gets to discriminate against small businesses? Don't we have discrimination law? The government saved your ass by not letting the economy collapse in the panic that surely would have ensued with the shutdown of major investment banks. As far as discrimination, just how many disabled minority cancer patients do you employ? Just asking..... Geez.....I haven't had this much fun since the old MT days...... |
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Post by lifewasgood on Sept 10, 2011 15:53:16 GMT -5
Had the government let the banking sector fold the economy would have collapsed. You "businesses" probably would have ceased to exist.
So taxpayers are required to finance bad business decisions and behavior? No less than giving free clean needles to drug addicts on the street with taxpayer money. Bad Decisions and Bad Behavior never should be financed. But yet you think it is necessary just so you can keep yours and screw the rest. Had the government decisions impacted you in a severe negative way, you would see things differently.
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Post by frankq on Sept 10, 2011 15:57:44 GMT -5
"Had the government decisions impacted you in a severe negative way, you would see things differently."
If the government had let the economy disintegrate, would you still be in business? Yes or No. And if yes, qualify you answer by telling us what business you are in. Stop putting words in my mouth. Again, I said the government action was necessary. Period.
"Had the government decisions impacted you in a severe negative way, you would see things differently."
I see things the way they are, not the way I want them to be.
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Post by lifewasgood on Sept 10, 2011 16:05:24 GMT -5
You "created" your own credit line? So, you lend yourself money? What kind of "businesses" are you in?
It's not as hard as you think and it actually makes better since as you don't become a slave to unnecessary fees, interest etc. However, you need to use your own capital to get started.
The government saved your ass by not letting the economy colapse in the panic that surely would have ensued with the shutdown of major investment banks. As far as discrimination, just how many disabled minority cancer patients do you employ? Just asking.....
You should be careful as a couple of my business are classified as minority and woman owned. As for Cancer, none, but we do employ a disabled Vet. However if someone in any of my organizations should develop cancer we will do all we can to help that person and there family.
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bimetalaupt
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 9, 2011 20:29:23 GMT -5
Posts: 2,325
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Post by bimetalaupt on Sept 10, 2011 16:06:23 GMT -5
They got their bank money back with interest. Looks like they're going to get the Corporate money back at a profit too. The government has no charter or constitutional authority to use public money to loan regardless if it makes profit or is paid back or not. If you don't like the government, stop doing business with them. I have and much much happier without there BS You hate banks, but you want credit lines for your business? Nope not no more, I created my own credit line and don't need the banks any longer except for business checking which is required to conduct legitimate business in this country. You obviously have no concept of the scope of the issue (WHO ME? ). You want to live in the USA, but not follow constitutional law as it is inconvenient and not profitable for you. Life,  I must have said this before but the Federal Reserve is the bankers bank.. Owned by the banks under a Federal Charter. It acts as the clearing house of wire money and checks. They lend money to banks.. AKA Lender of last resorts. As Paul Warburg stated they are a Modified Central Bank.. To that I add that the Bank of North Dakota has many of the functions the Federal Reserve does not have that is stated in the Law that created their charter. They can lend directly to students and firms.. Most of the loans to firms are called CO-OP loans with Banks in North Dakota.. Also know as participator lending. Personal bankers used to do this when banks were partnerships. Did the Federal Reserve make money with loans to European banks and TBTF American Banks.. YES.. Tons of money but that is what the bank needs to do to keep America Great. The Federal Reserve system is 12 interdependent banks owned by your local bank and a few large ones. It is the largest bank in the world and makes the most money. Also money is their for the use if you have good credit.. M3 is up some 7.7% year over year. That should trend well for Worlds GDP and Equity markets in 2012.. with a nine month Phase delay from action in M3 to Reaction in GDP!!Just a thought, Bi Metal Au Pt  |
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Post by frankq on Sept 10, 2011 16:09:23 GMT -5
Ok. Still waiting for specifics on your businesses to we can evaluate some of your comments. "Classified" as woman/minority owned? Are they or aren't they? Or is it just a paper declaration to claim a share of that earmarked "hated government" business? Hmmm..........
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Post by frankq on Sept 10, 2011 16:12:14 GMT -5
"You want to live in the USA, but not follow constitutional law as it is inconvenient and not profitable for you."
Again, as I've said before, it must have been inconvenient for many of the founding fathers as they chose to keep their highly profitable slaves after enacting the Constitution......
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Post by smackdown on Sept 10, 2011 16:17:25 GMT -5
"Almost as funny as watching all those mortgage brokers that that helped unqualified people get no-doc, zero down mortgages scurry around......"
Those were bank personnel and booking the only programs allowed once Gramm Leach Bliley destroyed the private credit industry.
"YES.. Tons of money but that is what the bank needs to do to keep America Great."
Sorry, no. Banks need to be Good for America to keep it Great. Right now, banks are the cancer killing the Great nation of America. We are better off CLOSING THEM and starting again sans the Gramm Leach Bliley Act and several other strategic GOP assaults on FREEDOM.
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Post by lifewasgood on Sept 10, 2011 16:17:49 GMT -5
If the government had let the economy disintegrate, would you still be in business? Yes or No.
This is a very debatable subject, as we now know the economy wasn't about to disintegrate as we were lead to believe. If it were, then why did the big banks give the money back as you previously stated? Very simply put, they didn't want the money except for a very short period of time as an insurance policy just in case the Derivatives market started to unwind. After that threat was diminished, they gave the money back to avoid the strings attached. Also by then the FED had provided 1.3 trillion in liquidity to the banks thus further diminishing the need for government funds. Ahhhh what a game was played. There were also alternative proposals but those were rejected as they were geared to help salvage the housing market and not bail banks. However as we now know that market was not saved by anything the government or banks did. Therefore your question cannot be answered only by saying if frogs had wings they wouldn't hit there butts on the ground every time they jumped. But I can say with 90% surety that we would have probably survived as we did as we were left out in the cold when the banks froze up liquidity anyway. Again as previously stated, my money went a long way in saving us as it was.
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Post by frankq on Sept 10, 2011 16:24:46 GMT -5
So, you continue to evade the questions I pose. Shit man, another guy with Kryptonite issues........
"This is a very debatable subject, as we now know the economy wasn't about to disintegrate as we were lead to believe."
Really? We know this? We had gone through this before and came out unscathed? Please post some supporting information, links, etc to support this. Since it's debatable you don't sound too sure....
"But I can say with 90% surety that we would have probably survived as we did as we were left out in the cold when the banks froze up liquidity anyway. Again as previously stated, my money went a long way in saving us as it was."
Ok. I get it. You are pissed at banks because they cut down your line of credit that you really didn't need in the first place. Shit , why didn't you just say that in the first place? LOL!!!!
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Post by lifewasgood on Sept 10, 2011 16:27:20 GMT -5
As stated many times, I am not the sole owner of any of my business except one DBA. I am married to a minority and children are minorities and several businesses are family owned. I do not do direct business with the government any longer after the screwing I took back in 08. Thus I have no advantage over the woman minority classification. I only point this out as you were baiting me as if I am some kind of racist which is very far from the truth. You like to bring the slave issue up with regards to the constitution failing to recognize the amendment process and that we did in fact amend to rectify that situation. Constitutional law is the only law of the land for the United States regardless of age of document and again it can be amended to fit today's situation. Example is the attempt to amend for a balance budget on going.
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Post by frankq on Sept 10, 2011 16:36:44 GMT -5
Hey buddy, I never baited you or called you a racist. I was trying to make a point regarding your claim of discrimination against you. The problem I have with you and your buddies is that you guys never want to tell anyone, anything about your "alleged" businesses because the board could then quantify your comments. That presents a credibility problem. As to my slavery comments, I stand by them as they are fact and many of the founders had slaves regardless of the document that they signed that stated "All Men are Created Equal". Yeah, we rectified the situation 90 years later. The "Founding Fathers" are constantly held up as saints on these boards. It's important to remember that this nation was formed because it was profitable for them to do so. The fact that it turned out so well for us is a plus. Had England been a little less heavy with the taxes, we might all still have British accents.
So in closing, once again you have provided nothing. You have skirted the questions posed and left no tracks. Well played, but not unexpected. I think we got what we were looking for here.
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Post by lifewasgood on Sept 10, 2011 16:39:09 GMT -5
Ok. I get it. You are pissed at banks because they cut down your line of credit that you really didn't need in the first place. Shit , why didn't you just say that in the first place? LOL!!!!
I adapted after 08 and changed my business finance structure to ensure the banks and government couldn't hurt us again. It is with no pleasure I had to unwind personal wealth to prop up a business, it sucked and still hurts, but that is the name of the game in the small biz world which I have the feeling you know very little about.
FYI, none of my business owe anything to banks. We are lucky for that.
Am I bitter about the Government and Banking, ooooooooyaaaaaaa, as it opened my eyes to just how out of whack with the constitution our country has become.
I am not anti banks however, and I do admire the North Dakota bank, and I personally would like to see all TBTF's be broken up for the monopoly they are. More regional and local banks with better touch with customer needs.
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Post by lifewasgood on Sept 10, 2011 16:44:44 GMT -5
The problem I have with you and your buddies is that you guys never want to tell anyone, anything about your "alleged" businesses because the board could then quantify your comments. That presents a credibility problem.
It's called retaining privacy and not revealing who I am as that is none of your business. If you are having problems with credibility than just don't come here and post anymore. Either way, I will continue to post my views and positions regardless of how many times you come over to bait and call me a racist........
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).