djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 20, 2011 16:02:24 GMT -5
so, i get four or five posts harassing me for proof of my allegations, and when i present it, i get no response.
is that how we roll here?
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cereb
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Post by cereb on Jul 20, 2011 17:42:36 GMT -5
If I read it right, PBP got a week off the forum from the mods. Although, I think he abandoned the thread before that since nobody was patting him on the back and giving him the high five. ;D
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 20, 2011 19:24:43 GMT -5
so, i get four or five posts harassing me for proof of my allegations, and when i present it, i get no response.
"Convince a man against his will, he holds his own opinion still." The truest words my pop ever taught me. i am not trying to convince anyone of anything. i am trying to incite conversation. anyone who would risk exposing themselves to ridicule on a board is not likely to shift their position one iota. that means that there are only two things that can be done. one is to give them a kudos. and the other is to oblige them in ridicule. ;]
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 20, 2011 19:25:53 GMT -5
If I read it right, PBP got a week off the forum from the mods. Although, I think he abandoned the thread before that since nobody was patting him on the back and giving him the high five. ;D grazing on low hanging fruit is a blast. i miss him.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 21, 2011 11:46:09 GMT -5
Actually DJ, I was not suggesting you were trying to convince anyone of anything, rather the proverb refers to the futility of arguing logically with true believers or fanatics. If I fulsomely hate Obama and a rumor spreads that he was born in Kenya rather than Hawaii, 100 witnesses and 1000 certified state copies of his birth certificate will not dissuade me. Likewise, if he was WAS born in Kenya. ( I will be moving to Kenya to escape the heat.) My post was a gesture of sympathy to you. i misread it. my bad.At any rate, while it seems outrageous on the face that the clerk would not chuck the poser headfirst out the door, there is a set of procedures in any office to insure the safety of staff and courteous treatment of the public. Even if one does not admit the obvious danger of telling off a gangster, does any supervisor wish to foster an atmosphere where the workers are empowered to go off on impromptu rants? No, the correct procedure would be to pass the matter up the chain of command via established procedure with the aid to be painlessly and surgically denied by mail.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jul 21, 2011 11:52:53 GMT -5
OMG, dj! I used to get those idiotic emails from my daughter-in-law. I finally told my son either he'd talk to her, or I would. Apparently, he decided prudence was the best choice and dealt with it himself. I've not received any more. Why in the heck people eschew research, I have no idea. Yes, it's time-consuming; however, if you want to be informed it's the only choice. You can't just listen to whatever talking head happens to be babbling at the moment. If you do, you deserve what you get. the problem with NOT challenging the rumor is that if you don't, you feed it. thanks for responding to this, btw, mm. i felt really good about that post, and hoped that someone would say something. anything. Hell, dj, it's a good post and deserved a response. Too many people want to sit back in their armchairs and have someone else tell them what's going on in the world instead of actively seeking out information from which to draw their own conclusions. I'm a firm believer that's part of the reason we have the leadership we have ... because people don't bother to really find out about that high-steppin' dude who wants to be the governor/senator/president.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Jul 29, 2011 14:43:03 GMT -5
All one need do to learn about O'Keefe and his claims is to Google the name. You'll find all sorts of stuff, but you need to take the time to sort through it, read it, and us what you learn to extrapolate the truth from the hype. It's not difficult but does take some time and a desire to actually learn something about the man and his workings. there is an epidemic sweeping this nation- the failure to challenge anything that seems superficially plausible and supports your perceptions of things. every week i get these stupid emails from my dad. the latest one claimed that Snopes was an agent of Soros, and that Kagan defended Obama against the birthers before her nomination. the second claim doesn't even pass the smell test. the GOP would have blocked the nomination, and a fair number of congressional Democrats, as well. she would never have even been considered, imo. the first claim is false. it is FactCheck that is supported by Anenburg, which is a Soros charity. it took all of 30 seconds to dispelled the rumor nicely. so why did he even send it? because he believed it, obviously. the next question is, why did he believe it? and the answer is that it was congruent with his world view. we need to stop doing this as a Democracy. we need to stop accepting "facts" that support our worldview and start challenging them. it is called "active participation", and it is what is required of us if we want a government that actually represents us. until we start doing this, we have precisely the government we deserve. I agree 100% that it does not serve conservatives well to perpetuate lies and half truths just because it'd be nice if they were true. However, I've asked several times for credible information that the O'Keefe investiagation of ACORN was anything less than factual-- and the best anyone could come up with here, or anywhere else online is that O'Keefe allegedly- according to the ACORN workers he busted- wasn't actually wearing that ridiculous pimp get-up when he came into the office. That- and the advice to "Google" his name. Nope. Not doing it. Sorry. The claim here was that the ACORN investigation was discredited, so let's have the facts. Put up, or shut up.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 29, 2011 14:51:43 GMT -5
there is an epidemic sweeping this nation- the failure to challenge anything that seems superficially plausible and supports your perceptions of things. every week i get these stupid emails from my dad. the latest one claimed that Snopes was an agent of Soros, and that Kagan defended Obama against the birthers before her nomination. the second claim doesn't even pass the smell test. the GOP would have blocked the nomination, and a fair number of congressional Democrats, as well. she would never have even been considered, imo. the first claim is false. it is FactCheck that is supported by Anenburg, which is a Soros charity. it took all of 30 seconds to dispelled the rumor nicely. so why did he even send it? because he believed it, obviously. the next question is, why did he believe it? and the answer is that it was congruent with his world view. we need to stop doing this as a Democracy. we need to stop accepting "facts" that support our worldview and start challenging them. it is called "active participation", and it is what is required of us if we want a government that actually represents us. until we start doing this, we have precisely the government we deserve. I agree 100% that it does not serve conservatives well to perpetuate lies and half truths just because it'd be nice if they were true. However, I've asked several times for credible information that the O'Keefe investiagation of ACORN was anything less than factual i posted it, Paul. as usual, you ignored it. but at least you are tacitly indicating that the fact he was not in the pimp getup when he entered the office is pretty damning. there is hope for you yet.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 29, 2011 14:56:18 GMT -5
and the best anyone could come up with here, or anywhere else online is that O'Keefe allegedly- according to the ACORN workers he busted- wasn't actually wearing that ridiculous pimp get-up when he came into the office. that is an "alleged" detail which O'Keefe has not denied, Paul. moreover, it is multiple witnesses, both ACORN and NON-ACORN that have corroborated it. furthermore, i listed three additional facts, which you either ignored or forgot. i am not going to repeat them to compensate for your laziness or selective amnesiaThat- and the advice to "Google" his name. Nope. Not doing it. Sorry. The claim here was that the ACORN investigation was discredited, so let's have the facts. Put up, or shut up. i already said i would not be putting up ANYTHING for you, Paul. because you never bother to read what i post. i did it for another poster. you picked out one detail, which you dismissed, along with the remainder of the case i made. which shows me that i was right about you being a waste of my time, in terms of producing said evidence.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 29, 2011 15:01:46 GMT -5
Providing examples of his B.S. would be nice since I don't listen to him, otherwise all of your post are just baseless opinions. rtf- i am seriously shocked that there are two people here that don't know it. but fine. since this problem is more widespread than i thought, i will give you what i can recall, and leave it to you to verify it, if you wish. regarding the ACORN video.............. first of all, there is no evidence whatsoever that O'Keefe went to that office in that ridiculous pimp getup, yet the video in question leaves you no reason to believe otherwise. the people who helped O'Keefe and his girlfriend stated for the record that he was not dressed that way, as did everyone who saw him come into the office that day. when O'Keefe has been questioned about this, he has refused to answer the question. secondly, the portion of the tape where the ACORN official appears to be offering O'Keefes girlfriend advice on setting up a prostitution ring is taken out of context. the advice was general advice to "not give up", after she presented her sob story about how rough her life was. finally, as soon as they left the office, the authorities were called. this fact is conveniently left out of all of O'Keefes subsequent statements, for obvious reasons. if any of these facts had been included in the original video, of course, ACORN would still be around. so, congratulations to O'Keefe for bringing down that organization. that was what he was trying to do. it had nothing to do with exposing graft- particularly, his own. this is only one of O'Keefes many intentional misrepresentations i can cite. but it is by far the most incriminating one. he has gotten more careful as he goes along. topping for Paul "i am too lazy to do my own research" Strauss.
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henryclay
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Post by henryclay on Jul 29, 2011 16:08:04 GMT -5
In trying NOT to be too lazy to do any research, I found this, which I would ask if it is incorrect. If so, then I would appreciatre knowing where to find the link showing the discredit: “The O'Keefe video was not discredited. Acorn was defunded by the last congress, and only avoided complete obliteration by having the local chapters change their names and disassociate from the national organization. As for editing of videos, the latest three now have, in addition to the edited version, complete versions posted alongside -- as do the previous two. So, if you are concerned about "edited" -- then you can see the complete video at LiveLeak.”
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jul 29, 2011 16:24:51 GMT -5
"LOL! this isn't a "huge" fraud scheme by any stretch."
Correct. THIS is a huge fraud scheme. Florida's Republican governor, Rick Scott, perpetuated the biggest Medicare fraud scheme in the history of the universe, fined 2 BILLION dollars, and was elected, anyway.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 29, 2011 18:40:44 GMT -5
In trying NOT to be too lazy to do any research, I found this, which I would ask if it is incorrect. If so, then I would appreciatre knowing where to find the link showing the discredit: “The O'Keefe video was not discredited. Acorn was defunded by the last congress, and only avoided complete obliteration by having the local chapters change their names and disassociate from the national organization. As for editing of videos, the latest three now have, in addition to the edited version, complete versions posted alongside -- as do the previous two. So, if you are concerned about "edited" -- then you can see the complete video at LiveLeak.” the ACORN video was indeed discredited, but not BEFORE congress defunded ACORN. the action by congress therefore does not prove the validity of the video, but rather it's deviousness. but hey, at least WCPS isn't alone. even Breibart himself was fooled by it: mediamatters.org/columns/201003020001the "complete videos" do not disclose that he was dressed conservatively when he entered the ACORN office, and that the pimp getup was filmed at a different time from the "counseling session". this is the thing about mass media these days. it is the sensational story that everyone remembers, not the retraction. this is well known by people like O'Keefe and Breibart. that is why it doesn't really matter how much they fuck up. it is only their goals that matter. and they are, by my own admission, wildly successful at what they do. disclaimer: very few outlets covered this other than mediamatters, because, candidly, hardly anyone cared. if you want, i will spend some more time finding independent studies of the incident like this one: www.proskauer.com/files/uploads/report2.pdfor you can simply accept that this "second story" was almost completely unreported. your choice.
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henryclay
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Post by henryclay on Jul 29, 2011 19:13:02 GMT -5
Thanks, dj. I read the first sentence: Proskauer was retained by the leadership of the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (“ACORN”) on September 21, 2009 to: "Retained by and paid by ACORN to look into and report on ACORN". Sorry, but it's not good enough. How about a truly independent reference source. But after all, you did say ACORN was defunded . . . . Gosh, oh gee. Can you tell us WHY they were sefunded?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 29, 2011 19:14:54 GMT -5
Thanks, dj. I read the first sentence: Proskauer was retained by the leadership of the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (“ACORN”) on September 21, 2009 to: "Retained by and paid by ACORN to look into and report on ACORN". Sorry, but it's not good enough. How about a truly independent reference source. But after all, you did say ACORN was defunded . . . . Gosh, oh gee. Can you tell us WHY they were sefunded? because they were tried and convicted in the court of public opinion. so, are you saying that the court of public opinion is infallible? but let's just cut to the chase, henry. do you PERSONALLY believe that O'Keefe was served by ACORN using that ridiculous getup? NOTE: the report also said that there was wrongdoing found. just not of the degree and scope that O'Keefe's creative editing wound seem to indicate.
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