Degree isn't worth the debt!

[Deleted]

A few people stating that their student loans /education are not worth it

money.cnn.com/galleries/2011/news/economy/1106/gallery.student_debt/

Erik Solecki

Student debt: $185,000

Degree: Bachelor's in industrial engineering from Kettering University


Facing college costs that are rising far faster than incomes, many Americans are relying on massive amounts of debt.

We talked to seven people overloaded with student loans. Here is Erik's story. (Click through the rest of the gallery for other profiles.) --The Editors

Was my college degree worth it? Hell no.

I graduated from one of the top engineering schools in the nation, thinking my starting salary would be between $70,000 and $80,000 a year.

Such a specialized, technical degree is supposed to lead to a great career, so I was willing to take out the debt.

Instead, I was hit with nine months of unemployment after graduating. And now that I finally have a job, I'm making about $15,000 a year less than I had hoped.

Even if I were able to afford the $1,800 payments each month, it will probably take me 30 years to pay off my student loans.

I engineer high-end autos. Ironically, I'll probably never be able to afford one.

Saniquah Robinson

Student debt: $82,000



Degrees: Master's in Health Science from Chatham University; Bachelor's in psychology from Temple University


After holding my Master's for three years, I'm still fighting to find a Master's level position.

I have been seeking employment in the medical field and after about a hundred interviews, I'm left doing contract work for $19 an hour.

I once believed that part of the American Dream was to earn a college education and this would ensure a great career and financial freedom. Unfortunately I am losing hope.

I'm a mother of three, and my husband and I have been turned down from purchasing a home due to our income-to-debt ratio.

I don't want people to think they shouldn't go to college -- it definitely gives you a great foundation to start your career. But it's very important that when you do, you know exactly what you want to study and you're knowledgeable about debt.

Shane Dixon

Student debt: $72,800



Degrees: Master's in public health from University of South Carolina; Bachelor's in biology from Clemson University

In my early years after high school, I wavered between trade school and college, but eventually opted for college and earned a Bachelor's in biology.

I quickly found work, but at an abysmal wage of $7.25 per hour, which did not even allow me to live on my own.

After an exasperating year at that wage, I decided to go back to school and I graduated in 2004 with a Master's in Public Health, thinking I was on the road to recovery.

During that time, I had been married, had a child, gotten divorced, and ended up raising my son on my own. I took a low paying government job in Southern Florida, and because I couldn't even make the minimum payments on my debt, I took forbearance after forbearance.

I have had a good life, but now at age 37, the weariness of carrying this financial burden frustrates me to no end.

My son is nine years old now and will want to attend college when he graduates high school. But what will I tell him? First I have to decide if the college degree is worth the debt. I hope by the time he is making his decision, I will have figured it out.

[midjd]

Erik Solecki

Student debt: $185,000

Degree: Bachelor's in industrial engineering from Kettering University

Thanks for posting, I feel better about my measly $140K for a J.D. ;D

I agree that incurring major debt (esp. for a bachelor's) is a bad move. I don't know what the answer is - I think blame can be equally shared among the schools, the lenders, and the students who don't put enough thought into the ROI of their degree. Setting loan limits for federal loans has just increased the amounts taken out via higher-interest private loans...

[bring in the new year]

I think people should always look at debt before undergoing anything. But for everyone listed above, how many people do you know without a college degree who are doing well?

There's an opportunity cost to not getting a college degree.

Also a few of those people seem to be only a few years out of school. Their thoughts on this may change as they actually begin to move up the ladder.

[Deleted]

Michelle Shipley

Student debt: $140,000


Degree: Bachelor's in political science and international development from Tulane University


Like many, I had no idea what money meant when I was 17. My family is not wealthy. I simply didn't have the information or knowledge to know what it would be like now.

I had to pay for college on my own and took out loans for everything - rent, food, books, tuition, etc.

Then, during my sophomore year, I lost everything to Hurricane Katrina. I finished my degree, but continued to take loans to make it possible.

I'm now working at a non-profit and I love it -- but I don't make much. I've been able to put off the payments through forbearance, but I know the $1,400 a month bills are coming soon. Not to mention, I've also racked up about $7,000 in credit card debt.

My debt is a life-swallowing, all-consuming, hole in my life. No college degree is worth that.

Matthew Eggen

Student debt: $240,000


Degrees: Master's in Social Work from Boston College, Bachelor's in Sociology from University of California, Santa Cruz

My wife Katherine and I were recently discussing when we're going to have kids. My thought is `Well, we need to be able to survive on our salaries now before we think of bringing someone else into this world.' Why you ask? Because we want our kids to have something she and I didn't have... a college fund.

We both received graduate degrees, hopeful that we could pay off the debt after getting jobs that paid slightly more. When all was said and done, what we actually got was $240,000 in debt.

As social workers, we both love what we do, and we come home with a smile. But I will give you one small example of how desperate our lives are: when my wife graduated in 2007, she owed approximately $41,000 in her private alternative loans.

Three years after we started paying the minimum payments on this loan, you would think it would go down. Instead, we now owe $48,000 because of the interest!

We have done the math -- and not including our private, car or credit card loans --I will be 67 years old before I am "done" paying on my school loans alone.

67 years old... that is too late to have a child!

Jason Chura

Student debt: $80,000


Degree: Bachelor's in journalism from State University of Albany


I wanted to be a journalist, but I've resigned myself to the fact that I won't be able to support myself on an entry-level salary in that field. Instead, I took a temporary job providing customer service to a cell phone company

Barring any lottery winnings, I think I'm probably looking at taking the full 20 years to pay off my $80,000 in student loans. With interest, it will probably come to more like $120,000 in the end.

Because of my debt, I can't afford to marry my girlfriend of five years (she's still in school herself, on loans). I don't want to buy a cheap engagement ring -- I want to be able to do it right.

I take full responsibility for my decisions, and believe me, I'd like nothing more than to "grow up" and pay my debts, but the truth is -- I feel like I spent my loans on a future that I simply did not receive.

Getting a good job is no longer about just working hard or getting a degree, and many people don't appreciate the opportunities that existed for them before.

David Mittelburg

Student debt: $87,000


Degree: Bachelor's in graphic design from Full Sale University


I was once an ambitious young adult, eager to graduate and start working as a Web developer. Well, reality set in, and although I do have a wonderful job, I have a whopping $87,000 in student loan debt hanging over my head.

My life revolves around work. I'm barely able to afford rent, I'm cutting back on bills and I'm barely able to feed myself. Why? Because almost half my monthly income goes to Sallie Mae. On top of my full-time job, I have a second part-time position and I also freelance.

I hope one day, I can afford to take a vacation, take my girlfriend out on a date again, and buy some new clothes (my dress shoes now have holes in them). I hope, I dream, I wonder, but America is letting me down.

[zibazinski]

Why would anyone run up such huge loans for any degree? Even medical is 25-30k a year and those are supposed to be the spendiest schools out there. I have ZERO sympathy for those who did it. They lived the high life and now they have to pay for it-forever. Who told them to marry, have a kid, divorce, when they didn't have a job and had a lot of debt? CHOICES, CHOICES, CHOICES. Bad ones catch up to you.

[midjd]

Jun 25, 2011 13:21:14 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Why would anyone run up such huge loans for any degree? Even medical is 25-30k a year and those are supposed to be the spendiest schools out there. I have ZERO sympathy for those who did it. They lived the high life and now they have to pay for it-forever. Who told them to marry, have a kid, divorce, when they didn't have a job and had a lot of debt? CHOICES, CHOICES, CHOICES. Bad ones catch up to you.

Medical school is more than that, especially if you go to a top school... most medical/law programs are at least $35K a year and up to $50K.

My law school was $40K a year when I started in 2006 (I had a $15K/year scholarship and still ended up with $140K in loans because of the COL in NYC). Now tuition is $46K.

ETA apparently I lowballed that...

The total cost of medical school at Yale in 2008-2009 will be $62,010 for an incoming student, including tuition, room, board, books, transportation and other expenses.

[Deleted]

Jun 25, 2011 13:22:30 GMT -5 midjd said:

Jun 25, 2011 13:21:14 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Why would anyone run up such huge loans for any degree? Even medical is 25-30k a year and those are supposed to be the spendiest schools out there. I have ZERO sympathy for those who did it. They lived the high life and now they have to pay for it-forever. Who told them to marry, have a kid, divorce, when they didn't have a job and had a lot of debt? CHOICES, CHOICES, CHOICES. Bad ones catch up to you.

Medical school is more than that, especially if you go to a top school... most medical/law programs are at least $35K a year and up to $50K.

Yep, my cousin is in medical school now and by the time he is done he will be in the mid 200K in student loans.

He plans to work in inner city afterwards because it seems they have a loan forgiveness program for Dr's that do that.

[zibazinski]

I am talking a "name" public university. I looked at USF's because DD thought about med school. 25k per year. UF's was about the same. You don't have to go to a "name" school, you still are a doctor. You have to be a doctor from a "name" school, well, whatever.

[zibazinski]

You can have 100k in loans or 200k, same doctor degree.

[midjd]

I will admit I have little knowledge about the relationship between alma mater and job opportunities in the medical field.

But in law, the school makes a HUGE difference. The average starting salary for a Tier 1 or Top 14 graduate is more than twice the average starting salary for someone who went to a Tier 4 school. Not to say someone from a low-ranked school can't do very well for themselves - but it is a harder road. It's better to be in the bottom of the class at Yale or Columbia than to be the valedictorian at Appalachian State.

Unfortunately, in the current economy, even graduates of the top-ranked schools are having a harder time finding work.

[zibazinski]

This is true and has been for law students for quite awhile. I know new grads working for paralegal pay which kills the paralegals that want work. Both UF and USF are good school for medical but the facts are that doctors are still so needed that you can get that MD and get a job. But the pay isn't as much so I would do the same thing as others should. Get the degree the cheapest way you can and don't borrow EVERYTHING to live on as well as tuition. DD knew she would have to live with me while she attended med school to save money. Now she's military so school, if she decides to go, will be mostly paid for.

[phil5185]

Some foolish decisions - but that doesn't make 'college' a bad decision. The expectation that IEs start at $70k or $80k was false, $50k is more likely. And there was no need to blow $185,000 on the BSIE, two years in a Comm College and two years at a State Univ can still be done for $30,000. And most any 22/24 yr old with a BS in engineering can figure out how to live on $50k & repay a $30k loan. (If he can't I wouldn't hire him).

[midjd]

I would assume they are outliers - most articles on the subject seem to pick the highest debt combined with fluffiest degree.

There is an effort underway (and I think the ABA is on board) for greater transparency in law school employment stats... currently most schools tout their "employed at graduation/employed 9 months after graduation" rates without really specifying whether it is legal employment or a job at Starbucks. They also do a lot of fiddling with the "median" starting salary.

I graduated in 2009, and most of my friends (who were in the top 25% of the class, Law Review, etc.) were not employed at graduation. Some temped, some worked retail part-time and tried to start their own firms, and some took unpaid internships. They have all found jobs by now, but I doubt a single one is making more than $100K a year. Yet our school's "Employment Data" page touts the 89% of our class who were employed at graduation (who? ) and $120K starting salary.

There's also the issue that these stats are generally only based on students who report - and those who have found jobs are more likely to report than those who haven't. So maybe 89% of the reporting students are employed at graduation, but that's only 10% of the total class.

I do think students should think - really, really think - about their degree and what they hope to gain, and evaluate what kind of lifestyle they'll have if they're paying off $XXXX in loans. Also think they should definitely estimate for a lowball starting salary. But I don't think schools should be allowed to essentially lie via their employment stats...

Anyway, sorry for the rant. It's a subject near and dear to my heart (and I have a job - I can't imagine how mad at myself I'd be if I didn't!)

[Deleted]

Jun 25, 2011 13:52:31 GMT -5 phil5185 said:

Some foolish decisions - but that doesn't make 'college' a bad decision. The expectation that IEs start at $70k or $80k was false, $50k is more likely. And there was no need to blow $185,000 on the BSIE, two years in a Comm College and two years at a State Univ can still be done for $30,000. And most any 22/24 yr old with a BS in engineering can figure out how to live on $50k & repay a $30k loan. (If he can't I wouldn't hire him).

Have you actually looked at the cost or are you just throwing numbers around? My DD is taking 7 credits at the community college this summer. It cost approx. $800, plus over $200 for books. Our state university is $10K a year for tuition and fees.

[Deleted]

Um, Kettering University isn't even among the top engineering programs in Michigan, let alone top overall. The guy could have gotten a more prestigious degree from Michigan, Michigan State or Michigan Tech for a fraction of that $185k. Kettering is a good school and all, but the guys sounds like an idiot.

I think the MHS, MPH and MSW are all people who signed on for low-paying do-gooder careers but didn't do their homework to learn that there isn't a whole lot of money in being a professional do-gooder. I made a similar career choice and took on a similar amount of debt, but I find a lot of meaning and satisfaction in my work. (My only regret is taking a deferment on my student loans when I went back to school - that was dumb)

Journalism isn't so far off from the professional do-gooders. You have to *really* want to be a journalist to sign on for a dying field. If you didn't know that going in, then you are also an idiot. And if you think you need a giant expensive ring in order to marry your girlfriend, then you are even dumber than that.

Apparently, I have limited sympathy today. Suck it up whiners!

[phil5185]

Have you actually looked at the cost or are you just throwing numbers around?

Both of my daughters did the 2 yrs @ CC, 2 yrs at State U - so I looked at the cost as I wrote the checks for 6 years, LOL.

Actually, I don't remember the CC costs, they lived at home, one had a presidential scholarship - so the costs were way lower than when they lived in a college town at a State U for 2 years.

[Deleted]

Jun 25, 2011 14:46:45 GMT -5 phil5185 said:

Have you actually looked at the cost or are you just throwing numbers around?

Both of my daughters did the 2 yrs @ CC, 2 yrs at State U - so I looked at the cost as I wrote the checks for 6 years, LOL.

Actually, I don't remember the CC costs, they lived at home, one had a presidential scholarship - so the costs were way lower than when they lived in a college town at a State U for 2 years.

and this was in what years? so they have to live close enough to the state university to commute there (which means they need a car and driver's license) or they have to include living costs in the cost of attendance.

[phil5185]

so they have to live close enough to the state university to commute there (which means they need a car and driver's license) or they have to include living costs in the cost of attendance.

The CC is about 5 miles away - the State U about 150 miles, they stayed in the dorms.
A driver's license isn't a big deal, cost about $12 each when they were 16.

[Deleted]

Jun 25, 2011 14:58:36 GMT -5 phil5185 said:

so they have to live close enough to the state university to commute there (which means they need a car and driver's license) or they have to include living costs in the cost of attendance.

The CC is about 5 miles away - the State U about 150 miles, they stayed in the dorms.
A driver's license isn't a big deal, cost about $12 each when they were 16.

LOL....my DD's learners was $50 plus the $350 for driving school (mandatory).....and unfortunately since she was away at school for the past year, she doesn't have her license yet.

But you still didn't mention what year your kids were in college since over the past 10-15 years college costs have significantly gone up.

So using your scenario or living at the state u, in my state, that's $19K a year, so you're at almost $40K without the 2 years of CC - not quite the $30K and done you've stated.

[midjd]

DH is doing community college, it's about $100 per credit hour plus books and fees - typically $1400 - $1800 semester. I'm not sure if that is cheap, expensive, or typical for CCs. I do know that the for-profit auto tech schools around here are about $20K/year.

[zibazinski]

It is very high. Tuition, room, and board at WMU or MSU, both public universities are 17-25k each per year.

[TheOtherMe]

Quote:
Student debt: $185,000

Degree: Bachelor's in industrial engineering from Kettering University


Facing college costs that are rising far faster than incomes, many Americans are relying on massive amounts of debt.

We talked to seven people overloaded with student loans. Here is Erik's story. (Click through the rest of the gallery for other profiles.) --The Editors

Was my college degree worth it? Hell no.

I graduated from one of the top engineering schools in the nation, thinking my starting salary would be between $70,000 and $80,000 a year.

Such a specialized, technical degree is supposed to lead to a great career, so I was willing to take out the debt.

Instead, I was hit with nine months of unemployment after graduating. And now that I finally have a job, I'm making about $15,000 a year less than I had hoped.

Even if I were able to afford the $1,800 payments each month, it will probably take me 30 years to pay off my student loans.

I engineer high-end autos. Ironically, I'll probably never be able to afford one.



This one is totally insane. Today, you have to be smart about where you get your college degree and what kind of job you can reasonably expect to get.

I second that there is nothing wrong with taking classes at a local community college. It's by far cheaper than a state school. This is especially true for somebody who isn't quite sure what kind of degree they want.

I hear about so many students who just go on to get their master's because they can't find a job. To me, all that does is add on to their student debt and is still no guarantee that they will get a job upon graduation.

#1 nephew has just finished up his coursework for his PhD. He hasn't taken out a student loan since his undergraduate days. It was his dream from the day he started college. Just hope he finds a job after the dissertation defense.

#2 nephew got a degree in accounting and had a job when he graduated.

#3 nephew finally figured out after 2 years in school on student loans what it is he wants to be. So, he's built up student loans and gotten no where towards a degree.

[Sum Dum Gai]

Finally, at $1,800 a year why would it take 30 years to pay off his student loans? The math doesn't add up...unless he put them on his credit card lol...

Read the article again, his payments will be $1,800 a month not a year. On a $55k salary, assuming you don't want to live on the street, that payment is going to be a killer.

[zibazinski]

Too bad he borrowed such a ridiculous sum.

[Deleted]

Student debt: $185,000

Degree: Bachelor's in industrial engineering from Kettering University

So this idiot blames the problem on that he didn't get the expected $70-80K salary and instead is $15K lower. Sorry he really didn't learn much in all those math classes, because even on $80K a year that much debt in student loans would be a burden.

As to the other poster, I think his payments would be $1,800/month, not year, so $21,600/year which is a lot on a $55K/yr salary. Most of the loans are private and would have a 6%+ interest rate as the federal loans are limited to $5-10K/year max.

[Deleted]

One of the people in the article went to the same school as me. I also have a ton of student debt.

The cost of higher ed has skyrocketed in the last decade. I'm in my early 30's and the cost to go to my college has almost doubled since I went there.

[endofera]

Something about the $1,800 payments on $185,000 doesn't make sense. That comes out to about 11% APR for 30 years. I doubt the APR is that high. If it is 6.8%, the payments are more like $1,200.

[bring in the new year]

The last time I read a detailed article on college costs, the big number that kept getting thrown around also include the student borrowing money for a semester abroad, a summer program in Ireland.

When I was in school (35 years ago) you borrowed money just for school and room & board. If you wanted to travel or do summer school, that was not part of the loan.

So again, while I agree in being careful about your borrowings, I do think that some of these outliers are just as crazy as the people who put big vacations and expensive cars on the HELOC.

Weston had a piece on how much more a college degree is worth over the course of a lifetime compared to when I graduated.

I have to admit - I am leery when all sorts of people keep writing articles about how not every one needs to go to college. I think to myself what they really mean is that people like me -working class girl, no one in the family ever went to college, not the world's greatest grades - people like me shouldn't go to college. I don't notice upper class kids being told to skip it. What I hear about upper class kids is that their parents have to fight to get them into the best preschools so nothing stands in the way of them going to college.

Going to college moved me into the middle class. Moved my cousins into the upper middle (if they went) and left them working class if they didn't. And my degree's in English. Best investment I ever made.

[phil5185]

But you still didn't mention what year your kids were in college since over the past 10-15 years college costs have significantly gone up.
So using your scenario or living at the state u, in my state, that's $19K a year, so you're at almost $40K without the 2 years of CC - not quite the $30K and done you've stated.

My youngest graduated about 15 yrs ago, back then it was <$4000/yr, including dorms. But now, in AZ, a state school is about $8k/yr for tuition & fees - so about $25k for 2 yrs with dorm. And I think CC is about $1000 a semester these days - so maybe $4000 for two yrs. At any rate, way less than $185k.

[Poppet]

I love the recommendation to go to community college. My how opinions have changed. People used to thumb their noses at it.
Nowadays they are jam packed w/ university refugees.

Here in California, for the time being anyway, a community college credit is $26 dollars. So a basic 3 credit class is $78. Tack on the assorted semester fees and that class is up to about $115. Average price of a textbook is about the same as tuition--$115, but resourceful people can often chop that price in half by using various strategies.--used, older editions, sharing, using the library copy and so forth.

So a class at cc in CA is roughly $270 with a $40 parking pass.