Career Question: Lazy or Smart?

[Deleted]

I was talking with a friend the other day about careers. I've noticed that the careers of some of our friends have really started to pickup steam. We're ages 33-35 and a lot of friends have really started to progress through the ranks of their companies. I have to be honest, I look at some of my knucklehead friends from college and I'm kind of impressed with how far they've come.

Anyways, I'm in a "Senior" position at my company, but not management. I actually could've applied for management positions, but around that time it was just a super busy period (just had twins) and didn't think it was a good time to make a switch. There was another guy at our company that applied for the position, didn't get it, and then got a management position at another company. He's making about $15K more, but is working about 15 hours extra per week.

My buddy who I was talking with kinda said "As long as you're going to be at work, might as well be making the most as possible". I kinda have the attitude that all the extra headaches and hassles (meetings, traveling, etc) isn't worth the extra $15-$20K.

I know it's kind of a personal decision, but curious to know people's thoughts. If you had a pretty easy/low-stress job that paid a decent wage, would you still progress to the next level? And for people in management, has it helped your career overall?

I'll say that part of my thought process is this. I have a side-business that generates good income for me. Literally almost double my salary income. So that's part of my reason for not being too concerned about the extra pay from a management job. But not sure if my stance would be different if this wasn't the case.

I just see people walking around with blackberries, answering calls on vacation, and working long hours and think how unappealing that seems.

[shanendoah]

It depends on your personality.
I'm ambitious. I like challenging and stretching myself. I would not be content in the low stress job that paid decent if I thought there was more I could be doing.
DH, on the other hand, would be very happy in that job situation.

[soon2bmomof3]

That's how DH feels about his job. He always has headhunters call/email with job openings, but he's very selective about who he will actually go interview with. It has to be a move up, with better pay, but also within a certain commute distance (within 30 mins or less). He can turn down these offers because he likes what he's doing now and the workload. If he was jobless or about to be laid off, that would be a different story.

[midjd]

I probably lean more towards your perspective...

Right now I'm an attorney working for the state government. My salary + benefits is probably about 30% less than I could get working in the private sector, but I get a ton of vacation time (plus paid holidays) and get to leave at 4:30 every day. Ideally I'd like to progress to a management position here - a little more stress, but still much less than I'd have working at a firm.

If it came down to it, I could do the 8am-8pm grind that seems to be typical of firm lawyers... but I'd be miserable.

[lynnerself]

My DH as turned down an opportunity to be a manager 3 times now (actually it did do it on an interim basis for 3 months).
It was barely a 5% raise and required too much time and stress dealing with personnel issues and office politics. You had to be reachable by cell phone all the time too.
If it had been significantly more money, it might have been worth the stress.
Mainly it's because it's a change from the technical side, which he likes and is very good at (probably the best in the state in his specialty) and a management position.

[rileyoday]

In these times I would consider if a promotion held more job security.

Where can you weather layoffs the best.

[tskeeter]

Dave, been there, done that. You are certainly right to question whether the additional accountabilities of a manger role are worth the extra money. Some key questions to ask yourself. Do you enjoy working with people so much that you're willing to spend about 25% of your time managing the activities of others? Are you willing to take the hit when you subordinates screw up and place them in the spot light when they hit one out of the park? Are you willing to see your work week expand from 45 hours to between 60 and 70 hours a week? See your vacation turned into an away from the job site working session? See your evening and weekend personal time shrink and more and more of your income become devoted for paying others to provide the services you no longer have time to do for yourself? If you work for a large company, are you willing to relocate every few years to advance your career? The price you pay for a management job is high, and gets even higher as your career advances.

On the other hand, those who stagnate in their careers put their jobs at risk. Frequently, jobs are positioned as training and developmental roles. If you are blocking the training and development of less senior employees by spending too long in a comfortable job, you may find yourself pushed out of your job and to the unemployment line because you were in the way.

You have an opportunity that many people do not have. A side business that generates more income than your day job. In your shoes, I'd probably focus on making the side business into my primary income source so I had more control over my work and personal lives.

[thyme4change]

I have stepped back and not really pressed to move forward for a few years. My obligations at home would make it so that I wouldn't be able to do it all. Now I'm bored at work, and not sure what I need to do. I've had the same basic job for almost 10 years. If I moved up would I be reinvigorated?

[Deleted]

The main difference between the people at my company that get promoted every 2 years and the people who get promoted every 5-6 years, is their level of effort and commitment. Those just doing what is asked with quality but little initiative will progress slowly.

[qofcc]

I've been doing more or less the same job for almost 10 years. I'm supposed to be getting the word "senior" in front of my title at some point, but beyond that, I don't think I'm going to be going any farther. The next level up is where they put people who are moving up through the ranks to test them out. From what I hear, there is very little pay raise, but a whole nightmare of politics and longer hours. People at that level are either promoted to a job with more responsibility or visibility or fired after a few years. I seriously doubt I'd ever make it past that level. I'm just not good at politics and I'm finding it hard to deal with 40 hours, much less more. I really want to get to the point where I can cut back, not take on more.

[telephus44]

I'm with thyme. I've been doing ym job about 10 years and I enjoy it, but it's getting boring. I'm not so sure I want to go into management, but I would take something with additional pay and responsibility.

[midjd]

I remember back when I was waiting tables during college... a friend was offered the "lead server" position. It had a pay raise of $0.75/hr, which brought total hourly pay to just under $3.00 (most of which was eaten up by taxes on claimed tips). You also got to be the first one there and the last one to leave, and were "on call" during the other shifts in case someone called in. And they wondered why she turned it down.

(This is how you ended up with power-crazy lead servers who were reeeally bad at math). They phrased the pay increases as "almost double your salary!"

[Deleted]

This is the quandary most face as they glide along their career path

How much crap do they want to deal with? Do they want to deal with everything that management deals with? Can they play the politics of the office?

Management requires dedication, decision making, politics, and occasionally stepping on others toes

Some never want it (the steady eddies of the office who keep everything going forward, but want to leave at 5pm everyday to spend time with their family)

Others want the money or the title, but not everything else that goes with it (destined for failure from the word go)

And then finally you have the ones who want it all (some good, some mediocre, some bad)

Taking the step is something that ALL should consider.....but in reality, many would be better off staying in the lower ranks (you usually CANT go back)

All based upon my views....which may differ greatly from yours

[Sum Dum Gai]

I've had my position for about three years and I'm starting to feel like I stalled here. The work is boring, easy, and I supervise a small team of middle aged professionals so the BS and drama quotient is very low. I'm bored out of my mind though. If I don't move up soon I'll take a lateral move just to give me something a little different to do. However, I get paid a pretty decent wage for somebody my age, I'm wickedly overpaid for my level of schooling, and I'm out the door everyday after putting in my 8 hours without taking anything home with me or being on call.

I used to think I wanted the lazy job, but I really can't imagine doing this for another couple decades.

[Deleted]

Jun 20, 2011 12:51:30 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

I used to think I wanted the lazy job, but I really can't imagine doing this for another couple decades.

I had a coworker tell me recently that he will never get promoted because he can't see himself working as hard as me (I'm one level ahead of him). Even though we are large company of 20,000 employees, our IT team has both engineers and administrators on it (not divided as common in large companies). He will always be the system admin doing almost mindless repetitive work everyday while I'll always be working with new software and setting the technical direction of the team. If we got reorged and I suddenly had to do his job, I'd be gone as soon as I could. I need to be challenged at work.

Also, my coworker is just stupid. He knows that I'm asked by our manager to review all the junior team members yearly. Why would you just come out and say something like that?

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I like my job, but I am not getting paid very much. To get paid more I am going to have to lab hop and that means getting a graduate degree.

However I am unsure if I want my PhD because it involves doing graduate work for less pay than I make now and when I get out I'll be more than likely doing a postdoc for what I make right now, if not less. It's be a VERY long time, if ever, before I made more than what I make now, especially if I decided to head up a lab.

So I am thinking my master's because it opens up a lot of doors but doesn't close a ton of doors like a PhD does. I'd be done with my courseload if I decided to go back and get my PhD at a later date, so the option is still available, I am just not sure if it is right one.

ESPECIALLY with talks of funding being cut for research. It's a lot easier to hop around as a lab tech and get a job than as a PhD, there is only so much lab space, professorships and money available.

[moneymaven]

I kinda have the attitude that all the extra headaches and hassles (meetings, traveling, etc) isn't worth the extra $15-$20K.

There's your opportunity cost. Having been on both sides of the fence, I am working to find the balance between the two. Work smarter, not harder is where I am at today.

[thyme4change]

Also, my coworker is just stupid. He knows that I'm asked by our manager to review all the junior team members yearly. Why would you just come out and say something like that?

LOL - I've been there with several people. I am a manager, although I don't consider myself "the management" - I reserve that for executives. I do speak with a lot of people, and around review time, people from all over the company will ask if I have any thoughts on different people I've worked with. These people will have said stuff to me like "I want a job where I get paid a lot, but don't do any work." Come on, idiots. Say that to your friends when you are drinking beer - not people at work.

[Sum Dum Gai]

These people will have said stuff to me like "I want a job where I get paid a lot, but don't do any work." Come on, idiots. Say that to your friends when you are drinking beer - not people at work.

Let's be honest though, don't we all want a job that pays a lot more without requiring anymore work? I sure as hell wouldn't turn it down.

[thyme4change]

Yes, but when someone who is on the equivilent level as your boss, but not in your hierarchy, and you don't know the guy in any other capacity, asks you to do something that is well within your job description do you answer "{{Sigh}} I'd like a job where I don't have to do any of this work."

I'm not faulting him for being honest - I'm faulting him for being stupid.

[Deleted]

Jun 20, 2011 13:22:03 GMT -5 moneymaven said:

I kinda have the attitude that all the extra headaches and hassles (meetings, traveling, etc) isn't worth the extra $15-$20K.

There's your opportunity cost. Having been on both sides of the fence, I am working to find the balance between the two. Work smarter, not harder is where I am at today.

Right. Realistically, I don't even think I'd be capable of being in a management position. I have a really hard time doing things that I think are an incredible waste of time or acting like something is important, when I know it's not. So the meetings would get to me. It's such a stereotype about the corporate world, but I can't even believe how many meetings I go to that are a complete waste of time. THat increases 10x as a manager.

I think my balance has worked so far. The job is the "conservative" me that provides pay, benefits, and security. The business allows me to do things my way and enjoy 100% of the upside without all the BS.

[Deleted]

Jun 20, 2011 13:50:39 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Yes, but when someone who is on the equivilent level as your boss, but not in your hierarchy, and you don't know the guy in any other capacity, asks you to do something that is well within your job description do you answer "{{Sigh}} I'd like a job where I don't have to do any of this work."

I'm not faulting him for being honest - I'm faulting him for being stupid.

I always think it's funny when people name a bunch of tasks that they say consumes 90% of the day and wish the company would hire someone to take care of that stuff.

I'm thinking "They did hire someone....you!".

[thyme4change]

I'm thinking "They did hire someone....you!".

Almost exactly what I said to one of my employees. He was fairly new and told me he felt IT should be running reports, not our group. I told him the job description that he was given when he applied had report generations as the very first bullet point, and he was hired to do that. He was not allowed to ask the company to hire someone else to do the job, nor is he allowed to delegate it onto another department. However, if he wished to reconsider the position now that he knows that what was in the job description was what was required of him, I would appreciate him doing so. Boy, did he shape up after that. Dumbass - what a stupid thing to do your first month in the position.

[skweet]

First you decide whether you want to sacrifice time, effort and headache for a higher salary. Then you decide whether you want to sacrifice and also risk your capital, to really start bringing some money in. Then the mood of the voter changes, and those that make money are the target of hatred and higher taxes. It has been a rough ride to socialism, but fortunately we won't have to make those tough choices, soon.

[Sum Dum Gai]

I always think it's funny when people name a bunch of tasks that they say consumes 90% of the day and wish the company would hire someone to take care of that stuff.

I'm thinking "They did hire someone....you!".

LOL! We have one guy who's constantly mentioning things that we should bring in outside contractors to do. His logic goes something like, "Sure we could do it, but at our salary level they'd really be overpaying for this work, and I should be focused on more important things." There's always an element of certain things being beneath him. I'm like, "Dude, they have to pay you your salary regardless, so if you can get the work done it costs them nothing, while bringing in somebody costs extra." I don't know why so many people have trouble grasping simple business concepts like that.

I can kind of understand where the dude is coming from, he's already paid his dues, done the shit work, and wants to be in a position where he doesn't have to do so anymore. That's fine. If it's really what he wanted he should have progressed in his career, instead of choosing to stay at the same level for decades.

[8 Bit WWBG]

...:::"I have a side-business that generates good income for me. Literally almost double my salary income. So that's part of my reason for not being too concerned about the extra pay from a management job.":::...

This is where I want to end up. I want the money. I don't care about the title, the responsibility, the privilege... It seems irresponsible to only have one income stream, because if something happens to dry up that stream, there is nothing left to fall back on.

...:::"He always has headhunters call/email with job openings, but he's very selective about who he will actually go interview with.":::...

This also involves knowing one's value. When you are in demand, you can be choosy.

[giramomma]

I'm also one who prefers the slower pace in life. I can always make more money. I haven't found a way to make more time.

I also have children who want my time more than more toys and electronics. When I get too involved with other things, they complain I'm not there enough for them.

I also don't define my success by my job. I'm much more than just my job.

[sil]

I work to pay the bills, to improve the lives of our family, and to provide for our future. Now that I have a family, goals like loving my job, challenging myself, learning more about my field, and career advancement are very secondary.

So if taking a new job would be damaging to one of my primary goals, for example "improving the lives of our family", I would not take it. I've actually passed up a few opportunities as a result.

I think if you have a good understanding of what you are trying to get out of work, it's much easier to see if an opportunity is worth pursuing.

[kgb18]

At this point in my life, my time is the most important thing, so I have no desire to do anything different in my career than I'm doing now. As a matter of fact, I took a small pay cut to come to this job because they offered me more vacation time. Financially we're doing fine. We have a young family and that won't last forever. It's more important for me to spend time with my daughter at this point in my life. I wouldn't consider myself lazy because I'm plenty busy when I'm not at my job.

[lulubean]

My Dh has kind of stagnated in middle management for the last few years, I tell him he is getting old he better hurry up and make his mark