ugga81
Initiate Member
Joined: Feb 4, 2011 10:04:14 GMT -5
Posts: 53
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Post by ugga81 on Jun 20, 2011 10:16:42 GMT -5
I live in Kansas City. House is about 2,900 sq ft (excluding unfinished basement, so probably 4,300 with that) with vaulted ceiling in great room. There are 2 of us. Bill is for 5/5 to 6/7, as I recall, it was rather hot. Total usage: 1,579 kwh. We have a heat pump (that uses gas for the bulk of heating- but electric for cooling)
First 600 kwh @ $0.1015 Next 400 kwh @ $0.1045 Final 579 kwh @ $0.1098
Fees of $30.20. Total bill = $196.47
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Deleted
Joined: Oct 5, 2024 13:31:51 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2011 10:19:46 GMT -5
Anytime someone pulls out "do it for the kids", I'm immediately skeptical. That is an emotional argument. If I am going to pay more now, give me some scientific proof that it will actually help people in the future. Would a 5% reduction in emissions from power plants actually have any benefit or is it like battling rising sea levels by bailing with a 5 gallon bucket? This is just an excuse for not wanting to take the responsibility. Let's talk about a 50% reduction .... over time. Any proof either way will be shut down with a "counter proof" by the other side, it's ridiculous. I do believe that if we continue on the same path we are on right now we'll destroy our own living space. Even if there is no proof either way (there is proof - again both sides claim to be able to proof the opposite, LOL I think we'll have to do the best we reasonably can. When trying to jam a square peg down a round hole, it takes a great amount of resources. That is where we are with renewables right now. The cost is too high and what we really need is 2 generations of technology in the future where the efficiency is improved enough to make it cost competitive. 2 generations of technology are not the same as 2 generations of humans - it will happen much faster than that. I will put solar panels on my house as soon as break even hits 5 years.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2011 10:24:22 GMT -5
Agree with Schildi. There is no way some of the things we're doing to the planet are sustainable, even for just another few generations. People ignore the real problem and that is population increases. If world wide population was flat decade over decade, it would be easy to reduce consumption through efficiency. But instead, efficiency improvements are needed just to keep consumption flat or slightly rising in the face of population increases.
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midjd
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Your Money Admin
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 14:09:23 GMT -5
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Post by midjd on Jun 20, 2011 10:28:30 GMT -5
Well I don't have kids, so I guess I'm doing my part
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2011 10:32:40 GMT -5
Well I don't have kids, so I guess I'm doing my part Same here. Married 13 years now and we've been on the same page since Day 1 - we don't want kids.
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tskeeter
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Joined: Mar 20, 2011 19:37:45 GMT -5
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Post by tskeeter on Jun 20, 2011 12:46:32 GMT -5
Molly, that's what happens when demand exceeds supply. CA has a long history of not building power plants as the population and demand have grown. Nobody wants a power plant in their back yard. The environmentalists fight construction of the most cost effective ways of generating power and even have fought against wind power because of the impact on birds.
The high cost of electricity in CA is also the result of "de-regulation" and the way CA chose to deregulate. This is what I learned during the 2002 power crisis, so some of this information could have changed.
During de-regulation, the power companies, such as PG&E, were forced to sell their most efficient power plants to third parties. Almost all the power then had to be purchased from companies that had no obligation to keep your lights on. In addition, electricity distribution companies were prohibited from entering into long term supply contracts. Thus violating one of the most basic business principles relating to providing price stability in the goods and services you purchase. CA electric companies can only contract for the electricity they expect to need today, and tomorrow. Then, CA utilities must pay every supplier the same price of the electricity they bought on any given day. The price is whatever the electric company paid for the last KWH of electricity. So the electric company is always buying electricity as if there was a shortage. This sets the stage for price manipulation as I can demand a very high price for a small quantity of electricity in the middle of the afternoon and get that same high price for the large amount of electricity I sold to the electric company early this morning. Finally, the CA PUC regulates how much electric companies can charge consumers, but does not regulate how much power generators can charge electricity distribution companies. Essentially, electric companies can be required to sell for $.40 per KWH what they had to buy for $1.00. Not a strategy for avoiding blackouts or ensuring that electric distribution companies stay in business.
Remember, too, that CA has very stringent emissions regulations. The real cause of the 2002 electricity crisis in So. Cal. was that many power plants had used up their emissions allotments for the year over an unusually warm summer. Many power plants were shut down when emissions allotments were consumed. When an unusually cold fall/winter followed the hot summer, the demand for electricity to heat homes built when electricity was less expensive caused the demand for electricity to exceed the generating capacity that still had available emissions allotments. Plants that were shut down remained shut down because the fines for exceeding the emissions limits were so much higher than the electricity could be sold for under PUC regulations. What followed were rolling blackouts, plant shut downs, and laid off workers. This problem was not resolved until the state of CA temporarily relaxed emission limits and until the state spent $40 billion to buy the long term supplies of electricity that the utilities were prohibited from buying for themselves.
If you've got a problem with the high price of electricity in CA, you can thank your state legislature for the debacle they created.
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❤ mollymouser ❤
Senior Associate
Sarcasm is my Superpower
Crazy Cat Lady
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 16:09:58 GMT -5
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Today's Mood: Gen X ... so I'm sarcastic and annoyed
Location: Central California
Favorite Drink: Diet Mountain Dew
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Post by ❤ mollymouser ❤ on Jun 20, 2011 14:30:17 GMT -5
It seems our State Legislature has created a lot of debacles.
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tskeeter
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Joined: Mar 20, 2011 19:37:45 GMT -5
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Post by tskeeter on Jun 20, 2011 15:37:55 GMT -5
-- it would probably take a couple of weeks of work to compile just the short list from the last 30 or 40 years. We have to remember, these folks are politicians. They do what is politically expedient, and what will get them re- elected, not what is smart.
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Deleted
Joined: Oct 5, 2024 13:31:51 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2011 16:54:06 GMT -5
It seems our State Legislature has created a lot of debacles. And when they aren't doing it to us, we are doing it to ourselves through unfunded ballot initiatives.
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Mad Dawg Wiccan
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Rest in Peace
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Post by Mad Dawg Wiccan on Jun 20, 2011 16:56:04 GMT -5
True that. I used to work at a hospital which had four 600KW diesel emergency generators, more than enough to supply the entire hospital and then some. When demand got high, the local electric company (SMUD) would pay the hospital to switch over to generators and drop off the grid. They had to stop because the local Air Quality Board threatened to fine the hospital if they did so.
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Post by soon2bmomof3 on Jun 21, 2011 8:35:07 GMT -5
Saw the statement last night, 1390 kW, total bill was about $125. We just switched, so it is 9 cents/kW for a year and when it goes back up, we'll switch again We live in Houston and it's been in the upper 90's with no rain for a month now. 3,800 sq ft house, two years old, we keep the thermostat at 78. Not sure if DH has it set for higher during the day when no one is home...
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