Generation ME

[bring in the new year]

SIL,

What I think the teachers at my niece's school were thinking is "Is this fair?" Is it fair that one kid gets both prizes? And they said no.

Remember, we're not talking high school, we're talking 5th grade. School motto is Character counts and they put a lot of stress on being considerate, respectful and hard working. And on academics & personal responsibility, more than phys ed.

So what did she learn?

Now, since the niece is convinced that she should have won the phys ed award, obviously her self esteem has no issues The other girl was the second girl behind her in phys ed and is actually one of her friends. Also someone who worked very hard both in academics and phys ed.

I think the message she's getting from us is we're so proud that you won this, but the whole awards ceremony does not have to revolve around you. (I think my sister actually told her that if she wanted to be upset, we could ask the school to give the other girl the American Legion and she could have the phys ed.) She knows she worked hard, she knows she did well, we know she worked hard and she did well, if there's an award and a shiny toy surprise, that's great.

But the actual reward is in knowing you did your best. And all the awards in the world aren't going to tell you that.

Whether that's her takeaway or not, I don't know. But that's the message and we're all sticking to it.

(Would I feel the same way if she were in HS and she was up for both prizes in English & math? Maybe not. Okay, probably not)


As for the participation ribbons, no, I don't get that. But like someone else, I'm just before the era when girls really started being encouraged to do sports. So I grew up "knowing" I wasn't atheletic, and I shouldn't expect to be picked for teams and I shouldn't be taking up space on a field or a court when the boys really needed to use them.

(God bless Title IX)

What I would rather see than participation ribbons and feel good certificates is basic physical fitness. No, I'm never going to be the fastest, but the fastest kid in my school still didn't go out for the Olympics. Maybe if the phys ed people could work more on getting these kids into lifetime sports like running or tennis or golf or weights, the participation wouldn't feel so meaningless. Right now, from reading the other responses, it feels like all anyone took away from ribbons & participation trophies, was that sports wasn't for them and that's the last message I think kids need.

Of course, like Dark, I also wish that academics would get the same cachet as football, but I know that's not going to happen.

[thyme4change]

But the actual reward is in knowing you did your best. And all the awards in the world aren't going to tell you that.

What about those that did their best and sat there watching another person get 19 awards? It makes the non-winner feel defective. For a lot of people, working hard and doing their best will never make them "the best." We are just constantly shoving their failure in their face by making sure we give an award for every stupid thing we can think of.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

What killed any enthusiam I might have had towards group sports was always being stuck with the rabid competitive kids who treated wiffle ball like we were playing in the Olympics. I don't mind competition, but it got to be too much after awhile.

I had someone tell me I should have let a soccer ball break my nose because putting my hands up to protect my face cost a penalty and they could have kept playing if I had just let the ball hit me. Whatever, you wanna pay the ER bill?

I didn't have fun playing sports again till much later when I played soccer with the guys from the lab. They told me they all sucked too, the point was to have fun. I even kicked the winning goal for my team. ;D

Participation ribbons didn't go either way for me. They didn't make me feel like a loser because I wasn't given a "real" ribbon and they didn't give me an overbloated sense of self worth because I got a ribbon. It was just a piece of fabric.

[zibazinski]

Really? Wow, I grew up and there was a girl who was just perfect in EVERYTHING, it seemed. Other than envy her at the time, I went on and actually turned out better than she did. She married the photographer that took our HS graduation pictures!!!!

[thyme4change]

I guess my feelings of constant inadequacy come from my brutally honest mother - rather than my overachieving schoolmates.

drama - I agree about group sports. I know so many people that are carry scars from Junior High gym class. I tried to explain to my husband that if the jocks failed at history they sat in the back of the room and the teacher would write an "F" on their paper and turn it upside down. But when I failed at baseball I had to strike out, twice a day, 5 days a week, for 3 weeks, in front of everyone I knew, every year from 3rd grade thru high school. Ball sports are humiliating for non-jocks, and it is humiliating in the most public of ways. I would rather fail English every year forever than have to play a single ball sport ever again. My entire family has shitty hand-eye coordination. I am no exception.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I have horrid hand/eye coordination too. I have horrible coordination period, DH has joked he is going to buy me a helmet.

I did get justice once when this kid was being a real asshole to me during softball. I managed to hit the ball just right and it smacked him right in the nuts. It was unintended because I am not that coordinated, but it felt good to watch him crumple on the ground. ;D

[bring in the new year]

Thyme,

That's why my sister, my BIL and I all agreed that she shouldn't get both medals. Which is what we told her. Because it's not fun for everyone else who did work hard to watch one kid sweep the show.

But I truly believe that whether or not you got the awards can't count as much as your own sense of accomplishment. I tell people all the time that I had no culture shock when I went to college because I had never been the smartest person in the room. I went to college with a lot of kids who had been 4.0 & class president and valedictorian and they ended up in a school with a lot of other very smart kids. They were shocked that even if they worked very hard, they might still not be the best at everything.

I was not shocked. Nor did I feel defective.

I knew I had done better than other people I knew (and worse than others) but that as long as I did my best, what everyone else thought or how everyone else ranked wasn't my concern. My family always stressed that you didn't worry how others were doing, they did what they did, you do your best.

And what I want my niece to learn is yes, she did well in phys ed. She knows that. And if she gets an award for it or she doesn't, she knows and we know what she did. That's the important thing.

As for the kid watching someone else sweep up the awards, I would want them to know that as well. Because I was that kid. I was the one who didn't get 800 on the SAT or break the mile (or win at volleyball). But because I had done MY best, I could also be happy for my friends who did all those things.

And I like being happy when other people win things. I like bragging about the niece or the godson or the best friend when she graduated vet school or the college classmate who got a high state appointment two years out of school. Thyme, if they give you an award, call me. I love being in the audience and applauding.

Because it's very rare when it happens to you. If you can be happy for other people, it quadruples your opportunities to rejoice.

[thyme4change]

I only hit the ball once, and the teacher yelled at me because I threw the bat down wrong. I told her not to worry, I would never hit the ball again. And I didn't. Three more years of standing there at bat, while everyone pointed and laughed. At least after that I knew better than to look like I was trying. I just swung at the first three things thrown at me, and then went and sat down.

And guess what - I wasn't in better shape, I didn't learn anything about teamwork, and I'm not a better person for it. I learned that if someone isn't adequate at something, you should berate them until they want to die. Nice lesson.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I wasn't in better shape, I didn't learn anything about teamwork, and I'm not a better person for it. I learned that if someone isn't adequate at something, you should berate them until they want to die. Nice lesson.

Same here. I was left with a lifelong hatred of group sports that I cannot begin to explain to DH, who was good at them.

He thinks I missed out on a lot of fun over the years. I think I saved myself extra years of torture.

[bring in the new year]

God, I am so sorry that happened to you. To both of you.

Why would anyone do that to a kid?

I learned to say early and often, don't put me in the place where we need a hit and I like left field (is it left or right field where the uncoordinated go to die?)

But my gym teacher also was big on, next time. Next time you'll do better. Next time just try & tip the ball. Next time come in close. But remember my age - I wasn't expected to be athletic, I was smart. I wasn't expected to go out for a team, there were very few girls playing anything. And if you weren't good at basketball, which I was not, all of my gym teachers seemed to push you towards volleyball or badminton.

I did have one very great gym teacher in HS who said "I know you don't care about sports. But you're going to be dating boys and working with boys and everyone should know just the basics." So she took three classes and ran over football, baseball and basketball, how many on a team, how do you score points etc. At the end she told us we should watch games because we might actually enjoy them now we knew what was going on.

So although gym was not my favorite class, it doesn't seem to have been as sadistic as what you had to put up with.

Again, I'm sorry for that.

[illinicheme]

Jun 23, 2011 12:16:16 GMT -5 bring in the new year said:

I learned to say early and often, don't put me in the place where we need a hit and I like left field (is it left or right field where the uncoordinated go to die?)

Right.

It's also where women get sent regardless of ability when playing on douchey co-ed softball teams.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

In general it didn't seem my PE teachers cared about the Lord of the Flies mentality that was going on in class. My elementary school PE teacher wasn't bad, but middle school and HS I would have given ANYTHING to not have to have taken PE.

I did like my senior year where we could pick, I would choose more individual things like bowling or golf so I didn't have to interact with anyone.

[thyme4change]

I actually did like my high school PE class. It was more about fitness, and every two weeks we were given 3 or 4 activities to choose from. We could always do something that was more "fitness" related, something that was an individual sport, or a group sport. And I never chose softball or baseball.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Ever have to play dodge ball Thyme? God I was never so happy as when they banned that game.

[Sum Dum Gai]

All this hatred of group sports...

Questions for you guys. When you first started going to school, and I'm talking first started in like Kindergarten, did you know your multiplication tables? Somewhere out there is probably somebody who can say yes to that question, but for the rest of us mere mortals the answer is oh hell no, right? First we had to learn to count, then to add, then to do multiplication. It took several years of working on it everyday, and we had homework and practice that whole time. Nobody just knows math. Some people pick it up quicker than others, but I've never seen a middle schooler that could just do trig.

Being athletic, is the exact same way. You don't get strong, quick, agile, and learn the specific skills for a chosen sport by just being born with them. You have to learn the basics first, and practice, practice, practice, until you can perform those motions with no conscious effort. Then you move on to more advanced stuff. You have to take the same approach to exercise to keep your body in peak shape. You start by building up a foundation of strength and speed, and then constantly refine it from there. There have been numerous studies and books published about how much or how little innate talent really matters in professional sports, or among world class musicians, and usually the conclusion is something along the lines of innate talent is nice, but 10,000 hours of focused practice is what makes people great. The key word there being focused. 10,000 hours of half assing it in practice won't even get a really talented kid to the top.

If you have a kid that got frustrated during her very first math lesson involving fractions, and the kid came home and told you "I'm no good at math and I'm never doing it again," how many of you would be like, "Oh ok, sure honey". Get real right? We'd sit them down and work out where they're having trouble and practice it with them right? We know that math is a skill that you have to practice to learn. Why do you think hitting, kicking, or throwing a ball is any different?

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Why do you think hitting, kicking, or throwing a ball is any different?

I didn't expect to be LeBron James or anything. It was the endless harassment and actually being screamed at by a teammate for not allowing a soccer ball to smash my nose so my team could "win" that turned me off sports completely.

Being humiliated every other day doesn't endear you to group sports participation.

That was middle school and HS though. Elementary school from what I remember it was more about learning coordination skills and stuff cause we were little, it wasn't like we had the coordinate skills to "win".

Field day kinda was competitive, but I still remember having a good time despite not winning any ribbons. I remember it being more about having fun and exercising that really about winning, the ribbons were a bonus.

If I'd had good teachers that might have helped too, but the teachers never did anything for those of us who were not good at team sports, we were left to the wolves.

I finally broke down a couple years ago and played soccer with some guys at work. I had a blast for the first time because they were not acting like they were superstars and I wasn't publically humiliated for not being one.

I even managed to kick the winning goal. ;D

As far as DD I have no problems with her playing sports if she wants to and would really like her to not develop the complex I have when it comes to group sports.

I want her to be competitive but not to the point of where she is humiliating the kid that isn't as good as her on the team.

Humiliation, at least for me, was not a motivator to become better at sports for PE. What it made me do was want to avoid it at all costs.

[zibazinski]

Geez, I taught PE since 1999 and, of course, took it years ago. I not only never had a mean PE teacher, (I did have a gay creepy one but thats another issue) but I also wasn't a mean one. I wanted the kids to TRY regardless of their ability and told them flat out that they would have to do NOTHING in class in order to get a bad grade, that I graded TOTALLY on effort and nothing on ability. Those kids got stressed and tested all day long, I wanted to be their one period of peace and fun. Field Day was a riot because we had silly games like sack races where everyone falls down, water balloon tosses so everyone gets wet, you get the idea. Yes we gave out tons of ribbons and no one got less than 4th place because there were only 4 classes for PE. I'm sorry that some of you had a sucky time or a sucky teacher.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I will say I like individual sports/exercise or ones I can do in small groups. If I ever have the time I'd really like to take Pilates someday.

I just hate group sports. I know it is generalizing and "unfair", but it runs deep. Like I said I hope to not pass that onto DD.

DH was good at sports. Maybe he can teach her to be good at them and enjoy them.


I'm sorry that some of you had a sucky time or a sucky teacher.

For me it was a trifecta of being in class with people who though they were God's gift to sports, having the coordination of a bull in a china shop and crappy teachers.

[Deleted]

I was in gym with a lot of girls who weren't that great at sports. One year I had co-ed gym which was interesting to say the least... especially when the swimming portion of the year came up. I wasn't good at any sports, but I was on the swim team and beat the pants off of everyone in the class. Except for this one guy -- GRRRR!

I'm pretty competitive, but I am a somewhat good loser.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I enjoyed when we had a choice in senior year because that was when I was in a group of fellow non-group sport people. With the right clubs I am actually not that bad at golf, it's just really really boring.

[thyme4change]

I don't understand why the ONLY way to learn to be healthy (according to my middle school) was GROUP sports. Honestly, most middle aged people don't play baseball, basketball or football to be healthy - most of the run or cycle or swim or lift weights or do aerobics classes (or whatever name they have that year.) I didn't expect to be good at baseball - but they never tested me on anything I was actually good at physically. They ONLY did ball sports. There is nothing about ball sports that makes you healthier than other sports. In fact, I contend that some baseball players are barely atheletes. That one dude is clearly obese, and I probably have better stats than he does in all things body - except hitting a ball.

As I said before, if you didn't try in Math and you sucked, and you didn't do your homework - you most likely failed quietly and privately in the back of the room. If you sucked at ball sports, every person in the school knew it and berated you for it. Maybe I would have been able to develop those skills if there was a way to learn them that wasn't so terribly public.

[Deleted]

thyme, there is something to be said for team sports. Even though I'm not good at them, I like team sports. For me, I'm motivated to run around like a maniac because there's a purpose to the madness. If I didn't have the back issues I developed a couple of years ago, I would love to join a field hockey club. Yeah it's a lot of running (which I hate), but I love playing. So I get to have fun AND stay healthy. I'll look into rock wall climbing after the baby comes, but I can't really do any other team sports -- and I'm kinda sad about that. IMO there needs to be something more to fitness than counting calories and pounds.

[Sum Dum Gai]

I don't understand why the ONLY way to learn to be healthy (according to my middle school) was GROUP sports.

Ever try to get a 12 year old excited about running laps every day for an hour? There's no doubt that it would burn more calories than playing baseball for an hour, but there aren't many kids who would pick the laps. Most of the things middle age people do to stay healthy are about as much fun as watching paint dry.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I think there is a difference between not being #1 or "good enough" and quitting/not liking sports and in the case of Thyme and myself where we were harassed and humiliated in PE for several years.

I'd never quit because I don't get a trophy or because I am not the top player on the team. But I am going to quit when you think it's worth me breaking my nose so you can win. I am going to quit when you call me names because I couldn't hit the ball.

I have nothing against group sports in general, but I still have my own hang-ups about group sports so I'll only participate limitedly and with certain people. There is no way I'd ever have the confidence to join an actual team or league.

DH loved sports but he was GOOD at them, really good. He thinks like you and Dark do that I am missing out and I should have just tried harder to be better at sports.

There is nothing I can do to convey to him exactly how devestating the humilation was for me all those years. I do know that if I EVER catch/hear of DD treating someone that way I will knock her into next Tuesday.

I don't believe in "everyone is a winner", but I sure as hell am not going to let my child humiliat the kid who isn't the winner.

[Deleted]

Most of the things middle age people do to stay healthy are about as much fun as watching paint dry.

[yogiii]

Jun 23, 2011 13:52:05 GMT -5 @moneyjenny82 said:

Most of the things middle age people do to stay healthy are about as much fun as watching paint dry.

I'm not middle-aged but I totally disagree. The only thing I miss about my pre-baby life is my aerobics classes at the gym. I used to do 5 a week or more and there were plenty of middle-aged people in there, in great shape too

[Sum Dum Gai]

DH loved sports but he was GOOD at them, really good.

I still think you're thinking about it wrong. Your DH PRACTICED at them, really practiced. Not just every once in a while in PE, but on his own time, after school, on weekends, during summer breaks. He put in the time practicing sports which is why he was good at them.

You weren't born a lifelong non athlete, and your DH wasn't born an athlete. You've both made choices to get where you are now. That's all I'm saying.

If you don't want your daughter to have the same experience you had, keep her active from an early age. Take her out in the yard and show her how to catch, how to throw, how to run, how to jump. Play games with her that build up her strength and coordination. You have to coach and train athletes, not hope they pop out of the womb ready to play one on one with Lebron.

[thyme4change]

Ever try to get a 12 year old excited about running laps every day for an hour? There's no doubt that it would burn more calories than playing baseball for an hour, but there aren't many kids who would pick the laps.

My high school offered all kinds of things that were not team ball sports. We played Tennis and raquetball. We did aerobics classes. My kids were taught yoga and dance. We did sprints and field - like shotput and long jump. Maybe I wouldn't have hated it so much if my achievement or lack there of, didn't disappoint 14 people - but just disappointed me.

[thyme4change]

And you are correct - I won't let my kid face the world without math - but if they hate baseball, I will not only let them quit - I will encourage it. It isn't a necessary life skill.

[Sum Dum Gai]

I think being somewhat active and healthy is a necessary life skill. One that a couple generations of Americans are almost completely without. It doesn't have to be baseball obviously, but I do think it's important to teach kids to stay active.