deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Jun 5, 2011 15:22:58 GMT -5
SOME prople need a lesson in "lethal force". There are places right here in the United States where signs are about fifty feet apart and say plain and simple: "Guards are posted and authorized to use lethal force". I suggest the bleeding hearts who claim the Palestinians were doing nothing to invite lethal force should go to any one of those places and test the meaning of what the signs say. There are three places that I know of within a hundred miles of me right now. Those are the ones I know about. There are probably others. The most widely known place is called "Area 51" at Groom Lake in Nevada. There are otrher places where the government has washed its hands and put up signs to the effect that, "If you proceed further you may get shot by unauthorized immigrants in this area". Who wants to be first? I'll help pay for the gas you'll need on the one way trip. I'll do that in exchange for holding your "last will and testiment". How you get back home is up to your heirs. How many people have been killed wandering around Area 51 and many have done so. The cammo dudes who are usually civilian’s contractors will seldom interact with trespassers but will notify the local sheriff department. To voice thoughts, questions, on the question of necessity of useing deadly force , in some eyes here , you are then a "bleeding heart" what ever that means... I am assuming the poster who voices such sentiments and thoughts, regarding the one he is calling out as a "bleeding heart " who raises such questions on the need of use of deadly force is insinuating, one who does so , the 'bleeding heart ', is less of a concerned citizen, less of a patriot, one who has never served, seen combat, never participated in what "seen action" really means, never suffered personally what "have seen action" can really mean for some. On all that is insinuated by that poster , insinuations above, I can say they are wrong in their assumptions. "Bleeding heart", ?? Nope just one who raises some questions, has some thoughts, doubts, is concerned for unnessary life lost, life is so preciouse, one only gets one as far as I know, a tragedy to give it away before it's time, so questions are raised.
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henryclay
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Post by henryclay on Jun 5, 2011 15:47:29 GMT -5
Well, my offer stands.
Who wants to go put themselves on the Syrian side of the border and tell the people that Israel will shoot at them if they crowd the fence? I'll hold their "Last Will and Testament" while they do it.
In this case I won't pay their transportation bill, but I will reimburse them for it, , , , if they get back.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2011 15:51:52 GMT -5
Yes, life is precious, to us. Why mothers would raise their babies to be martyrs is a great mystery. It must mean a lot to them. They send them to train, to fight, to die young, then make sure it is all recorded while they cry as the kids go do what they were raised to do.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2011 15:53:13 GMT -5
I sure wouldn't go anywhere that could get me shot, but I don't want to die more than I want to live.
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pappyjohn99
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Post by pappyjohn99 on Jun 5, 2011 15:55:40 GMT -5
Damn fool elders always send the young to get killed. Ain't no different here. Soldiers are young people, politicians are not.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Jun 5, 2011 16:02:00 GMT -5
Yes, life is precious, to us. Why mothers would raise their babies to be martyrs is a great mystery. It must mean a lot to them. They send them to train, to fight, to die young, then make sure it is all recorded while they cry as the kids go do what they were raised to do. Martyrs are those who go to give their life for what they have been brainwashed to do, a different cat to me. Whether one agrees with their tactics, their beliefs, their dreams , their wants, if a group feels that the cards are stacked against them, they have little hope , object to how life is treating them personally and their people and feel they have to vocally object to that, and are no longer toddlers, young adults, mothers can understand their , feelings and to peacefully , granted loudly, for some , obnoxiously so, voice their feelings , demonstrate by attending gatherings to let their thoughts be known, is not the same as raising their kids to be Martyrs.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Jun 5, 2011 16:10:48 GMT -5
I sure wouldn't go anywhere that could get me shot, but I don't want to die more than I want to live. Your a adult , understand life is precious , understand that at times to express one self in the wrong way, place can be a problem, even a fatal, but if after explaining all that to YOUR kids , possible forbidding them to carry out what they say they want to do, and some still felt strongly they had to do what you don't want them to do , even though you are in line with their feelings , off they go in violation of your wants, and when they are brought home on a stretcher no longer alive, because they were obnoxiously loud and disrespectful, a real p in the butt....but dangerous to no one, but caught up in a situation that got out of control, by possible other young people who had little actual experience or training in how to handle obnoxious loud insulting young people... and no, these Mothers did not all, if any, bring their children up to be martyrs.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2011 16:14:51 GMT -5
Since you don't watch videos I will not post a dozen baby terrorist training camp videos. All been posted before, and new ones all the time.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Jun 5, 2011 16:33:03 GMT -5
Since you don't watch videos I will not post a dozen baby terrorist training camp videos. All been posted before, and new ones all the time. I don't watch because I can't easily watch as you know and while the buffering that moon mentioned helps it takes forever so unless it's a particular important one I don't bother. What showing me training films from somewhere is going to prove vs this particular topic I haven't a clue. I have mentioned on a few posts if there are any dangerous situations that might arise in any way, toward the ones manning the border on the Israeli side all bets are off and what ever is needed to keep those types away, so be it, even to the snipers , as mentioned on one, taking out two who were armed and in the area. That they , demonstrators , dislike the Israeli's, that they are screaming at them possible, swearing and cursing, even if it is something that their culture would not allow them to do, unlike ours, were 1000 turned around and mooned the Israeli's in a hugh insult to them, unless they are a threat to them , physically , the use of deadly force is not necessary , and from all the posted links and what i read so far, they were not close to that in being a threat. I have read all your objections, yours particularly, and the others and it seems you are spending all this time trying to come up with justification after justification for the use of deadly force against these mostly all , if not all , young demonstrators from the Mothers raising them to be Martyrs, they deserve it because all Muslims are what ever sub human you feel they are, now because there are camps preaching what ever some where, and it comes down to the fact, the deaths of these young people mean little to yo personally, as i said at the beginning, your care for them as people is nil, and as far as any care for them, just not there, as another group also felt not that many decades ago. These people, Muslims in general, just do not register with you as a people , entitled to respect and normal dignity and concerns of human feelings toward. Basically, in most of your minds, possible a people who really are a bit toward sub humans rankings thus what happens to them, so be it. Kind of like , Muslims ?? mmmmmm,
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2011 16:36:49 GMT -5
I'll pass on replying to that load of crap, Dezi. There really is no point.
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henryclay
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Post by henryclay on Jun 5, 2011 16:41:03 GMT -5
I'll pass on replying to that load of crap, Dezi. There really is no point.
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Post by lakhota on Jun 5, 2011 16:56:54 GMT -5
Israeli Forces Attack Nonviolent Protesters In Golan HeightsToday, hundreds of Palestinians and Syrians marched in the occupied Golan Heights, protesting the Israeli military presence and confronting the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF). At one point, the confrontation between the IDF and protesters turned violent, as the IDF responded to the demonstrators forcefully, using multiple means of force, including tear gas and live ammunition, resulting in the killing of at least a dozen demonstrators and the wounding of many more. Mustafa Barghouti, a famous independent Palestinian politician and a critic of terrorism and corruption, was among the protesters. He described the event to Al Jazeera: “What we saw in the Golan heights, in front of the checkpoint to Jerusalem, were peaceful Palestinian demonstrators demanding their freedom and the end of occupation, which has become the longest in modern history. “And they were encountered by terrible violence from Israel. They have used gunshots, tear gas, sound bombs and canisters emanating dangerous chemicals against demonstrators. “They also beat us. I was one of those who was beaten today by the Israel soldiers today while we were peacefully trying to reach the checkpoint to Jerusalem.” SkyNews had a reporter at the scene. Watch his dispatch: The State Department responded to the events with the following statement: “We call for all sides to exercise restraint. Provocative actions like this should be avoided. Israel, like any sovereign nation, has a right to defend itself.” It is certainly true that the demonstrators were engaged in provocative actions — they were attempting to breach a border Israel had set up, even if it is widely agreed to be illegitimate by international law. Yet the United States and international community have often implored Palestinians to take up their cause nonviolently. President Obama, in his Cairo address, used the analogy of Black South Africans who used civil disobedience to protest apartheid. (h/t: @maxblumenthal) thinkprogress.org/security/2011/06/05/236950/israeli-forces-wound-protesters/
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Jun 5, 2011 17:08:22 GMT -5
Israeli Forces Attack Nonviolent Protesters In Golan HeightsToday, hundreds of Palestinians and Syrians marched in the occupied Golan Heights, protesting the Israeli military presence and confronting the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF). At one point, the confrontation between the IDF and protesters turned violent, as the IDF responded to the demonstrators forcefully, using multiple means of force, including tear gas and live ammunition, resulting in the killing of at least a dozen demonstrators and the wounding of many more. Mustafa Barghouti, a famous independent Palestinian politician and a critic of terrorism and corruption, was among the protesters. He described the event to Al Jazeera: “What we saw in the Golan heights, in front of the checkpoint to Jerusalem, were peaceful Palestinian demonstrators demanding their freedom and the end of occupation, which has become the longest in modern history. “And they were encountered by terrible violence from Israel. They have used gunshots, tear gas, sound bombs and canisters emanating dangerous chemicals against demonstrators. “They also beat us. I was one of those who was beaten today by the Israel soldiers today while we were peacefully trying to reach the checkpoint to Jerusalem.” SkyNews had a reporter at the scene. Watch his dispatch: The State Department responded to the events with the following statement: “We call for all sides to exercise restraint. Provocative actions like this should be avoided. Israel, like any sovereign nation, has a right to defend itself.” It is certainly true that the demonstrators were engaged in provocative actions — they were attempting to breach a border Israel had set up, even if it is widely agreed to be illegitimate by international law. Yet the United States and international community have often implored Palestinians to take up their cause nonviolently. President Obama, in his Cairo address, used the analogy of Black South Africans who used civil disobedience to protest apartheid. (h/t: @maxblumenthal) thinkprogress.org/security/2011/06/05/236950/israeli-forces-wound-protesters/ IF they breached the border as your post indicates, the one beaten says so as I read it, trying to reach acertain point beyond the border, point, Jeruselum no less ? Then that is a different story.... as far as not responding as not worth it, "the load of c " , the C is what you post. I read what you have posted here , there , everywhere as to your feelings K, I can cut /past them if you have forgottern, they are your utterences, all on the same vein and that is what you indicate as far as your feelings toward Muslims. Not true? Then learn to post differently, have more care when you express your feelings, one can only go by what you post, I don't know you, wouldn't recognize you beyond useing a walker and would notice a gimpy arm for now, might then say , Krickett? You keep up with your same rhetoric, and it has nothing to do with "Free Speech ", it is WHAT you say that says what you feel and believe..so your correct, you believe that way, your right of course, there is "Free Speech" and how can you respond but to re admit your feelings or better say nothing. Some times to say nothing, that is best. I see you got a #karm# from a admirer, heres another just because, these things have taken on a importance of zero since being dropped as a toddler with a missing diaper would drop little surprises around the house would do, mean about as much.
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Post by ed1066 on Jun 5, 2011 17:42:57 GMT -5
I'll pass on replying to that load of crap, Dezi. There really is no point.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2011 17:44:31 GMT -5
Sounds like SYRIA screwed up, to me. "Things were relatively calm on Israel's other borders on Sunday. About 400 Gazans hoisting Palestinian flags and posters gathered near the main passenger crossing into Israel, but riot police from Hamas, which runs the Gaza Strip, prevented them from marching toward the crossing. At the West Bank's main crossing into Jerusalem, several hundred Palestinian young people tried to approach the checkpoint. They threw stones at Israeli forces, who responded with tear gas and rubber bullets. No major injuries were reported. Palestinian organizers in Lebanon called off a planned march to the Israeli border after Lebanese authorities had declared the area a closed military zone." news.yahoo.com/s/ap/ml_israel_palestiniansGOOD JOB, Syria!! Man, when HAMAS does better than Syria at keeping the bloodshed down, that truly shows how screwed up Syria is.
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Post by marshabar1 on Jun 5, 2011 18:36:29 GMT -5
They came to push Israel to retaliate, they pushed Israel to retaliate. Mission accomplished. I'm sure the people who push these foolish tools forward are wishing more had died.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Jun 5, 2011 18:41:18 GMT -5
"who push these foolish tools ", not sure of that, they have a bitch, the problem is their bitch would be the end of Israel as a Jewish State, thus all and eveything by the State to not let that happen, and yes agree here,
"I'm sure the people who push these tools forward are wishing more had died. ", ....it would fit their plans positively.
I can't help thinking, possible I am wrong, but unlike the first demonstrations, they cone about every year same time in anniversity of the 1948 War and movement out of Israel by Arab Palastinians, that one a few weeks agonwass more proactive then in the past, this one, they, Israeli's knew what was coming, plenty of warning, as they notified indirectly all the Arab governments , Syria, Lebonion, Egypt, the political groups, Hamas, Hezballah and the independent ones toongotn the message, but as far as prcautions, response it seemed thye played into the organizers hands, gave them what they wanted, more martyrs.
I wonder of the new Israeli leadership, [Current}, their secret services are not up to what was in the past, or if they Arabs have gotten more organized, coordinated, better at what they are doing.
I am thinking a combination of the two.
Unlike many of you here who just post your emotions, you do, I , a few others, try to figure things out..there is more to this problem, conflict then what most of you are espousing and if some post questions, suggestions of what might have been done, criticism's too..it does not mean they are siding with the other side.
If you were in Israel and could read Hebrew, or you don't have to, the Jeruselum post , their oldest daily paper , going back to way before the State was a State, a daily English version is published, , or listened in the coffee houses, bistroes, they love their coffee the Israeli's , you would read and hear the same questions being asked , discussed, it's the way the Israeli's are. Very Polirical, very into the news...like a third ear, always listening to the latest happenings...
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Post by lakhota on Jun 5, 2011 18:54:37 GMT -5
Two things stand out to me:
1. A border Israel had set up.
2. Widely agreed to be illegitimate by international law.
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henryclay
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Post by henryclay on Jun 5, 2011 19:03:36 GMT -5
Lakota posted: lwo things stand out to me:
1. A border Israel had set up.
2. Widely agreed to be illegitimate by international law: I wonder if Lakota or anybody else can tell us more about the" internatinal law" that Israel is violating. I wonder if it's the same one that North Vietnam is breaking by not removing itself from South Vietnam, or that Russia is violating by not removing itself from Sakhalin Island and returning it to Japan. I even wonder if it's the same law that La Raza says the United States is violating by not returning Texas and the entire southwest part of the country to Mexico.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Jun 5, 2011 19:04:15 GMT -5
Two things stand out to me: 1. A border Israel had set up. 2. Widely agreed to be illegitimate by international law. Lakhota you can keep bringing that story up, and as much as the Americans Indians are going to get back Manhattan, and all the lands that were stolen from them, the broken treaties that means the US government violated time after time treaties signed in good faith by the Representatives of their tribes, they are not getting back Manhattan or those other parts of the country, unless the Government found they were worth less enough to give back..ain't going to happen. Same here, Israel..borders, give back all, Palestinians allowed to come back to Israel proper...as one has said , "Deal with it"...not going to happen, UNLESS the land is conquered by force, which is always a possibility. Actually it could happen with the first part too, American Indians, band together , mend all the fences between the tribes, they did have major differences back before the settlers showed up..and in a concerted effort , attempt to take back what they feel is theirs. Good luck.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Jun 5, 2011 19:42:48 GMT -5
Lakota posted: lwo things stand out to me:
1. A border Israel had set up.
2. Widely agreed to be illegitimate by international law: I wonder if Lakota or anybody else can tell us more about the" internatinal law" that Israel is violating. I wonder if it's the same one that North Vietnam is breaking by not removing itself from South Vietnam, or that Russia is violating by not removing itself from Sakhalin Island and returning it to Japan. I even wonder if it's the same law that La Raza says the United States is violating by not returning Texas and the entire southwest part of the country to Mexico. Technically right of conquest? Jordan attacked Israel in 1967, when Israeli's and Egyptians were going after each other, were asked by Israeli's to stay out of, the King thought about it, decided he couldn't , Israeli's in a day wiped out his Air force and then , losing many of their people, finally took Jerusalem, the West Bank, Syria also attacked, very dicey there , but there again, Israeli's after losing many of their people, the Golon was theirs...so technically, they won these Territory's, those who lost them , West Bank , Jerusalem, were fighting as surrogates for them, the Palestinians, they really have no say, get what the Israeli's want to give them, in a peace treaty if they want to sign a peace treaty with them.[Palestinians] One way to look at it.
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Post by lakhota on Jun 5, 2011 19:50:27 GMT -5
I fail to understand how Native Americans got dragged into Israel's squattership?
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Jun 5, 2011 20:37:05 GMT -5
Since it was your post that brought out your feelings of the inappropriateness of the Israeli Nation occupation of it's land as a illegal happening, squatters rights as you so aptly refer to it, not true but it is your feelings it got me thinking. Also using the feelings of a international body that is almost completely prejudiced against the State of Israel , whether small or large their rulings, and rarely finds fault with their opposition , beyond a possible finger slap of no consequence, yet you have no problem seeing their prejudicial feelings for the State as a legal justification of your claims, over looking the fact that for justice to be done, fairness is also needed, and in this body, there is none of that, thus their ideas on the subject hold no water and are dismissed as they should be. "a border that Israel set up" That too is not correct, they had a border back in 1948, accepted by them , understandable upset on the lines of it but accepted by them , but not their neighbors., They were then attacked by the surrounding countries and invaded by them. They won in a war those borders that they held till 1967, actually won in a series of wars , started or instigated by it's neighbors. When they were instigated the Israelis initiated and moved against those who were threatening them. Due to the demographics , size of the country, they can not and will not wait for the first blow, they can't afford that. The one time that was allowed to happen, the Yom Kippor war,attacks by the Egyptians and the Syrians, that was almost the end of the State. I doubt that will ever be allowed to happen again. -------------------------------------------------------- Quote:It is certainly true that the demonstrators were engaged in provocative actions — they were attempting to breach a border Israel had set up, even if it is widely agreed to be illegitimate by international law. Two things stand out to me: 1. A border Israel had set up. 2. Widely agreed to be illegitimate by international law. ----------------------------------------------------- The comparison of the American Indians to your suggestions of the treatment of the Palestinians and the illegal settlement of the Palestinians lands by the Israeli's , to me I see a similarity there between the two happenings. Your known interest in all things American Indian, also you feeling that there were great injustices done to the American Indians by the US government in the past and still today in different forms, both these happening, my feelings are they are what they are, "Deal with it"..granted a rude response , but true in my feeling...it is what it is. I acknowledged it could change , and suggested how in the case of the Palestinian case, if that happens , it happens. I also suggested that the same could happen with the American Indians too, tribes banded together and give it a shot. To me both are very , very, very long shots, but they are options but until they are done the Palestinians are not going to be allowed in mass or possible any form back as a right to return, or Israel will be anything but a Jewish State and the American Indians will not get back the Island of Manhattan or other suggested stolen lands . Naturally all the above , IMHO.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2011 0:09:11 GMT -5
Israel kills 12 Golan Heights border crowders
Stevie Wonder & Ray Charles both would have seen this coming. I'm sorry but to me it's another case of natural selection. Israel has a long history of doing the same thing over & over & that thing is not taking shit from their neighbors. Those protesters knew what was going to happen (or they were severely mentally handicap) before they started. The protesters gave up their lives just to try to start trouble. Next I guess a plane full of them will try to fly over Israel's no fly zone & it will end exactly the same (dead protesters).
I guess the only real question on something like this is: Will Israel run out of bullets first or will heaven run out of virgins first?
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Jun 6, 2011 0:29:28 GMT -5
Israel kills 12 Golan Heights border crowders Stevie Wonder & Ray Charles both would have seen this coming. I'm sorry but to me it's another case of natural selection. Israel has a long history of doing the same thing over & over & that thing is not taking shit from their neighbors. Those protesters knew what was going to happen (or they were severely mentally handicap) before they started. The protesters gave up their lives just to try to start trouble. Next a guess a plane full of them will try to fly over Israel's no fly zone & it will end exactly the same (dead protesters). I guess the only real question on something like this is: Will Israel run out of bullets first or will heaven run out of virgins first? Your doing the same thing with your comments of "virgins first? " dissing their wants, insinuating they are teroriss looking for martyrdom , they aren't, and they won';t get their wants fulfilled, they won't get them. Their gripes are as illegitimate and they have no bitches coming? They have gripes, and good ones possible but they won't win on those, the reality of the situation. The reality is unless a NATION wants to try and physically destroy the State, they will not be going back to their homes that their Grand parents, actually in many cases, the age of these kids, their Great grandparents left...and if they try to cross in mass, there will be blood shed.
My question was and still is, with knowing what was coming, and they surly knew this time, did those in leadership position , Israeli, consider all ways to keep the casualties down, not play into the organizers hands, not the kids , the ones who pushed for the incident to come out this way, young people dead. More martyrs.
I don't think they gave it enough thought or care and these are some of the best military planners in the world..
Cavalier in their thinking, not really caring of the outcome beyond another embarrassing negative on the State, possible a ho, hum, way of looking at it.
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Post by ed1066 on Jun 6, 2011 7:31:07 GMT -5
Israel doesn't really care about this "martyr" BS. That's for the Islamic fundamentalists and lefties like yourself who support the Hamas-backed Palestinian "cause". You can sit back in your comfy chair and call them martyrs, to the Israeli military, they are invaders storming their border. The Palestinians and Syrians have shown a historical willingness to sacrifice their childrens' lives in order to kill Jews, so Israel's reaction is justified and appropriate, assuming the Syrian government is even telling the truth (which I doubt).
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Jun 6, 2011 7:46:21 GMT -5
"lefties like yourself who support the Hamas-backed Palestinian "cause". "....nope again, not at all and wrong again.
"The world according to ed " is peddling BS again but keep trying, some day you wiill get one right.
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Jun 6, 2011 7:57:15 GMT -5
"lefties like yourself who support the Hamas-backed Palestinian "cause". "....nope again, not at all and wrong again. "The world according to ed " is peddling BS again but keep trying, some day you wiill get one right. Dezi forgot, IMHO again. (Smileys not attaching?)
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2011 8:03:43 GMT -5
Your doing the same thing with your comments of "virgins first? " dissing their wants, insinuating they are teroriss looking for martyrdom , they aren't, and they won';t get their wants fulfilled, they won't get them.
Your right Deziloooooo. I dissed their wants. If someone were to try to come on my property (which we can compare to their border) & he knows that I don't want him to I really could care less what he wants. His wants don't concern me at all (especially that one about him wanting to live).
The reality is The reality is that Israel protects it's borders & reacts when it's citizens are attacked & they have never made a secrete out of that fact. They don't care if someone didn't get a red Schwinn bicycle for their 12th birthday or not when they are trying to come into their country illegally, they shoot them. The reality is that they don't have 4 or 5 million illegal aliens running around in Israel because the their borders are secure. My guess is that they are safer in their country than we are in ours (like I said, a guess) because they aren't wishy washy.
with knowing what was coming, and they surly knew this time, did those in leadership position , Israeli, consider all ways to keep the casualties down
I doubt that "keeping casualties down" even occurred to them. Heck I'm surprised that they didn't put more guard on duty so that they could shoot more people in a shorter time. Again they have proved that this works for them because they don't have the problems that we have. That's because very few people are stupid enough to test them & those that do (test them) usually don't get to reproduce.
Lastly my comment was meant to be funny because I think the situation WAS funny. Given Israel's past even most fools would have know what was going to happen. Those people killed had to know that there was a 99% chance (actually I think that it was more like 99.999999999%) that they were going to be shot at & since Israel doesn't train it's soldiers to miss it was obvious what was going to happen. Duh!
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Post by ed1066 on Jun 6, 2011 8:08:27 GMT -5
What's not being discussed here is that some casualties were caused by land mines placed on the Syrian side of the border by the Syrian military, in violation of UN regulations against the use of land mines. In other words, the dumbf**k Syrians blew up some more of their own people. Not to mention the fact that all this is just a distraction from the fact that the Syrian regime is currently murdering thousands of it's own citizens in a crackdown on opposition to the current dictator...
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