Dependent Parents

[Miss Tequila]

May 5, 2011 9:18:46 GMT -5 Cookies Galore said:

I dread my mom getting older. My sister and I have a vague idea of what we'll do (Mom moves into her house and I'll help out with something or other), but whatever happens is going to cost us. Mom has $0 to her name (no EF, no retirement fund) and makes $14 an hour in a pharmacy. I don't even know if she has any insurance right now. She's 59 and in good health, but I dread the future.
The woman has never saved a dime in her life, so every little thing that has happened has been a crisis (car repairs, etc.). When she was laid off in 2003 she cashed out her 401(k) instead of rolling it over. It "only" had maybe $5,000 in it, but even whatever it would have grown into today is better than the squat she has. When my grandfather died and my Mom got a few thousand from his estate, she took us all on vacation. Anytime she's had access to money, she's blown it.

I love my Mom, but I'm afraid she'll ruin me financially because she didn't plan.

Meg, you are describing my mom. I absolutelyl refuse to bail them out. Combined, they bring in about $80K a year (and we live in a LCOLA) and filed for bankruptcy a few years ago. Right before Christmas she was receiving foreclosure notices on her house! I did help out by reaching out to her creditors and starting her on payment plans, taking over her checkbook for awhile, etc...but I will not give her one penny. Yes, I can afford to but I shouldn't have to....to say her irresponsibilty pisses me off is huge understament.

Her ass will be in a state-run nursing home if that's what it comes to. Call me heartless but I will not ruin my own future or my children's (I have a special needs child so I am saving for her future care) because of my mom's irresponsibility.

[zibazinski]

I probably also would take my mom in but no way would I ever give her a dime. She spent so much money on her boy toy and his brat "buying" him and basically gave me and my children the shaft in the meantime. She wastes a LOT of money. She charges in a month what I charge for a year. She's hurting a bit now because she wasted so much without ever thinking houses won't sell or people won't get appraisals. She spends like a drunken sailor and it amazes me. I think I am so frugal/cheap because of her habits. I thank her for that, at least.

[qofcc]

so 2 days ago I posted that I had my dad back on track for now in his new apartment and new part-time job and I just needed to provide cell phone, car insurance and irregular expenses like car repair.

So today, I'm sitting in the hospital waiting for him to come out of surgery. Life can change in the blink of an eye.

Last night while driving home from work he sneezed and lost control of the car and ran into a tree. He shattered the bones in his upper leg, the bone in his lower leg is sticking out and he broke a rib. They expect it will be at least 3 months and several surgeries before he can attempt to walk again. Thank god he survived the accident and he's being reasonably calm about this and they are doing a good job controlling his pain with meds.

So he's going to loose the job, he can't go back to the apartment because he won't be able to navigate the stairs and without the job, he's back to $700/mo social security so he can't afford it anyway. Not to mention there was no collision on the $2,500 car and he's still going to need to make the payments for another year or so (and I co-signed, so he can't default). So I told DH that we'll try to keep Dad in a rehab place for as long as the insurance will pay (because we're both gone at work 10+ hours/day and he can't be there alone if he can't walk to the bathroom), but when he gets out, he's going to have to come live with us at least for a bit until he's steady on his feet and can move into a senior apartment without stairs and we're going to have to find a way to get a queen bed up the stairs and move in to the spare bedroom, cause we need to give dad our nice first floor bedroom, he can't sleep on the new recliner couch with his leg and back problem.

Even if they get him walking, I don't see how he can work. He lost his last job because he was slowing down. He fell in the parking lot his first day on this new job and now he totalled the car and I don't know when if ever it will be safe for him to drive. I hope it was really a sneeze and he didn't nodd off. He falls alseep pretty much every time he sits in a chair quietly.

I keep thinking he's 69 years old. The SSA expects me to still be working at his age.

I really want to run away today.

[Phoenix84]

"I keep thinking he's 69 years old. The SSA expects me to still be working at his age."

I've noticed that too. Many people seem to start having serious health problems in their 50's and early 60's, but the SS administration won't give you full benefits until you're 67 if you were born after 1960.

I always found it interesting that some people have serious health problems in their 50's and are already like senior citizens but you get other people that still run marithons in their 70's. I had one professor in college who was in his early 90's and still teaching and playing tennis.

[Formerly SK]

qofcc - (((HUGS)))

My mother worries me. She was a horrible mother growing up and we are not close now (didn't talk for 8 years...now talk monthly or so but only about safe subjects). Despite living about two hours apart, I've seen her twice in the six years since we started talking again.

As far as I know, she has no money and is in bad health (she's only 64). She hasn't worked in the past 30 years and hasn't filed tax returns....so "off the grid" so to speak in terms of govt assistance. So far she is still able to keep a roof over her head, but I don't know how long that will last. I'm not about to bring her into my home, and I don't have money to send her. It is very likely she will end up homeless (or kill herself to avoid that). I don't feel too sorry for her except that mental illness plays into her situation and to the extent she is mentally ill, I feel some obligation to help keep her off the streets.

Do you get SS if you haven't paid into it? What about Medicare? Are all the elderly programs available to someone who hasn't been in the system for most of their life?

[Phoenix84]

"Do you get SS if you haven't paid into it? What about Medicare?"

I don't think so. If she is married or ever was married to someone who does (or will) collect SS she may qualify for something based on certain criterea. Though even if she did, I doubt it'd be more than a pittence. Someone else who's more knowledgeable on this topic can verify.

[morrisr2d2]

My mom is 60, but has health and depression issues and abuses prescription drugs, and acts more like an 80 YO. She is a divorced housewife living literally paycheck to paycheck with $10s of thousands of debt.

I gave up long ago trying to get her help, both mentally and financially. Talking to my dad and grandmother they tried for decades and gave up.

Mom and I are on civil terms, but that's about it. Mom expects me to support her so she can be comfortable and remain in her own apartment - she plays the "family should do anything for each other" card.

I'll give her the occassional $100 or $200 if she asks to help her squeek by. I told I can do no more, and she can always live with me if she wants. One day she'll be forced to, but so far she's hasn't asked to live with me. I've left the ball in her court.

[Cookies Galore]

May 6, 2011 6:46:08 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

I think I am so frugal/cheap because of her habits. I thank her for that, at least.

I know for a fact I'm cheap/frugal/scared of spending money because of my Mom. I grew up with having the electric shut off, her car being repossessed, and her not having enough money to refill the oil tank when it ran out in the winter, but we always went on vacation. Seriously?! Now that I'm older, all I can think is WTF was she doing? My Dad gave her $1,500 a month in child support and we had to go without heat for a few days in January?

I'm so glad I got my Dad's brains and take after him, but my Mom definitely gave me a complex about money.

[Gardening Grandma]

"Do you get SS if you haven't paid into it? What about Medicare?"

No, but it does not take very much to qualify. If you get SS, then you qualify for Medicare.

This was an issue for us as my mother lived overseas for 50 years. She was covered by the national healthcare there which is one reason she gave for refusing to return to the US when she began having problems. Fortunately we found out that back in the 50's, she had voluntarily paid into SS, so she qualified (barely) for a very small SS pension. (less than $100/mo) BUT, it qualified her for Medicare which was huge. Now Medicaid pays for her nh care (thank goodness). She sold property back in the 80's for about a half a million, but gave it all to her church so they could build a church building..... This was back before her Alzheimer's was obvious and she was very secretive about finances; always assuring us that she was "just fine".

[TheOtherMe]

My parents are each 87 and have health issues. One my mother was in hospital last October, I saw the balance in their checking account because my dad didn't know how to write a check. My mother spent the winter recuperating and my dad had to take care of her, along with some home health care paid for by Medicare. When that ended, they are paying for someone to clean their house every other week. They are also getting Meals on Wheels Monday through Friday.

I have no idea of how much they have in savings. My mother is ill again, but refuses to see a doctor. Over the winter, my dad had to get a new pacemaker.

The day is fast approaching when they will not be able to stay in their own home. My sister says they can't live with me as I am not capable of caring for them. She's probably right. I am also not in a position to contribute financially. My sister had her MIL at her home for some time before it became too much and MIL had to go in to a nursing home. I think that is her plan for our parents.

Our parents will fight moving 3 hours from their families. However, neither of us can afford the time or the gas to go down there as often as they would like. When it's time for a nursing home, it will be near us, whether it be one or both of them.

[DVM gone riding]

When dad has to retire, I expect lots of problems. Both are already collecting SS but have no other real retirement besides the two houses they have. Dad's current plan involves lots of boarders in their primary residence (the second house is a small paid for rental) I have said it before mom can live with me (but she would prefer her freedom) Dad can't-if it get really really bad they will either have to live in the rental-not something my father would ever do willing, or they would have to live in senior housing. Yes I expect to help them in the future, Hopefully 10-15 years in the future but at some point I know they will need aid-financial and otherwise. I imagine they will totally destroy their finances and assets before I am allowed/able to step in-hence the likely hood of needing senior housing.

[Nazgul Girl]

I feel better about my retirement savings for my daughter's sake now after reading some of these posts. I have posted about my battle to save for retirement after losing everything in a failed veterinary business with my first husband which we didn't go bankrupt on. I'm 58 1/2 years old, plan on continuing to work until age 65+ to qualify for paid-for health insurance through my employer, work all of the overtime I can, and have $260,000 saved for retirement in cash and IRA/403b's. I have never made over $40k per year in salary. My husband has another $ 260,000, plus a state pension. We are continuing to save for retirement ( he is already retired but we still save ), and we have a paid-for home. We're getting a second rental ready as soon as we close on it, hopefully later this month. We will have two paid-for low-milage cars when I retire, plus my redoubtable Jeep. We're working on eliminating all debt, although we have a mortgage on a third home that we currently live in, and have not let it go. We could, but we have chosen not to up until now. We will be adding a rental every 1.5 years until I retire, so we should have 2-3 more by the time we're done. Our daughter won't have to worry about us, hopefully, and our net worth should be about $ 1.8m by then per our financial advisor. Let's hope he's right . I can understand why many posters don't want to support their spendthrift parents. I wish you all well.

Also, sorry to hear about your dad, qofcc. I remember you previously posting about him and his job situation. So sorry that the two of you have these issues to work through, and I hope that he makes a fast recovery.

[stats45]

I would never talk to my mother much less give her a cent, and though I have a decent relationship with my father now, I would never help him either. Neither parent invested in me growing up, and I don't feel a need to help them at all.

My partner's family is completely different though. I've known them for years now, and I would help them if they needed it in retirement. I don't think they would ask for help or even need it without a serious medical problem or disability, but we would insist to help. His father has a construction business and makes good money, at least when the housing market is good. His mother and father (48 and 51) will have their house paid off in ten years, but they don't have a lot in savings. With good health, some late savings (catching up now after paying for private school and college for two kids), and SS, they should be fine. If not, we are ready to help and could build it into our budget without trouble.

[busymom]

My Mom is still living in her home. She no longer drives, which means I get a lot of phone calls asking for rides to the doctor, dentist, etc. I also arrange delivery of her groceries each week. A lawn service mows her lawn in the summer, & shovels her snow in the winter. I think she needs a housekeeper, but she refuses to have a "stranger" come into her home, so it's probably not as clean as it could be. She is very strong-willed, and will not be moved into an assisted-living center, although I think she would benefit from the social part of it. I visit her frequently & help where I can, but I'm still raising kids, and my youngest has a disability, so there is only so much I can do to help. Her doctor insists she can still live by herself, but I can see the day coming where she will need to move somewhere with more support available.

[constanz22]

Mom is 63 and Dad is 72. They are both in really good health, although I do see Dad slowing down just a bit (not much though!) This man played on a regular ice hockey league until his mid 60's! They are no longer together, but never legally separated or divorced. I'm not really concerned about either financially. Dad had a good pension and other retirement savings, plus SS. Mom is still working and has some retirement savings. Having been one of the primary caretakers of my grandma before she passed about 4 years ago, that is the stage that I am dreading. I will do whatever I have to do for either one of them, but, it certainly isn't, and won't be, easy. I live in the family home (that my parents built when they first married 45 years ago), but it is not set up in any way for an elderly person to live here. I considered it with my grandma, but, it just wasn't an option. I do have a basement that could be finished into a small efficiency type in-law apartment. The issue is there is no door on the ground/basement floor. It's a raised ranch and there are stairs outside to get in and then more stairs, either up or down inside. I am the likely sibling that the care would fall onto. My sis can't even take care of herself and her kids without my dad's support (she's 33) and bro and his DW live their life several states away and nobody really hears from him. Mom lives in FL now, but, I would hope she would move "home" later in life if she needed care. I don't know...she swore when we went through everything we did with her mom, that she would "never do this to her children". So, we'll see...I'm really not in a position at this point to help financially, but, I may be in the future, if needed, but, I don't really see that as being a need.

[cubefarmer]

Financially dependent and physically dependent are two different things. Even if they are financially dependent, they may still need hands-on help and many older folks don't trust strangers and oftentimes for good reason.

Generally speaking from co-workers (a better cross section of people than what I am usually around) more parents of adult children need help BOTH ways and the adult children aren't really prepared to do either.

[snapdragon]

After having watched my mother take care of my GM for the last 20+ years of her life- there is no way I would let either parent live with me for end of life/dependent care. I don't have the emotional temperment and I can not deal with some of the things I saw and had to do for my Grandmother.
I have told my mom this numerous times but she still ended up living with me. She turned into a financial train wreck due to my brother (another story completely) and GM finally passing away at home just like she wanted.
My mother Finally moved out of my home after 3 years and moved to a M/LCOL area instead staying in state. I am so thankful for that.
Now I phone her about every other week and I drive 4-5 hours and visit when I can.

[cronewitch]

Mom is in good shape financially and ok physically but my brother does do much for her to make life good. This weekend they were shopping for a RV to put on vacation land. They picked one big enough for mom to stay too and avoided 5th wheels with stairs to the bathroom. They will get the HOA for the land to allow a porch with a ramp for her to get in even if they need to make her an owner since only handicapped people can have a porch or a ramp. Mom is loaning them the money for the land. Loans in our family work out really well, mom is carrying mortgages on 2 other things for grandkids and get paid every month. This brother is good for it, I have loaned him money and dad did before and he pays as agreed.

[Tired Tess]

I know I should know this but what does HOA mean?

[Mardi Gras Audrey]

HOA= Homeowner's Association

[Frappuccino]

I want to retire to Spain or Italy because those places look so nice in movies and because my mom will not try to live with me there. She is 53 and has no retirement. My little sisters will not be able to support her, and I don't want to. I was a young mother, and my son is almost grown. And, when he is done with college all I want to worry about is me me me!

Do they take Americans in Italy and Spain??

[sil]

I never knew how lucky I was to have parents that dont plan on / wont need to depend on me once they are elderly, until I read a thread like this one.

First time I read a post about spendthrift parents who expected their kids to be their retirement plan, I actually thanked my parents for making sure all 3 legs of their retirement stool were funded before they stopped working.

Hugs to all of you going through this.

[Sum Dum Gai]

My mom has mentioned living with me in retirement several times. I've told her flat out that it's not happening on several occasions. She doesn't have much saved, but should have two small pensions and SS. She lives in a low cost area, so hopefully it'll be enough. She's in her early fifties and still in pretty good health, so we hopefully have a while yet to worry about it. I'm still hoping a couple more of my siblings start making decent money. It'll be easier to support her (if it becomes necessary) if we can spread the cost out over two or three of us.

We don't have to worry about my dad, or step father. Neither has been a part of our lives in a long time.