chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Apr 20, 2011 6:47:18 GMT -5
I'm still waiting for the coffee to kick in this morning (it's been a long time since I've been at the office before 7AM) but wanted to share a link to an interesting blog post on the Washington Post that was sent to me overnight. hope everyone's having a great morning so far.  **********************************************************************************************
Religion lies about women“The discrimination against women on a global basis is very often attributable to the declaration by religious leaders in Christianity, Islam, and other religions that women are inferior in the eyes of God,” former President Jimmy Carter said last week. Many traditions teach that while both men and women are equal in value, God has ordained specific roles for men and women. Those distinct duties often keep women out of leadership positions in their religious communities. What is religion’s role in gender discrimination? “Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.” Here, in Ephesians 5, attributed to St Paul, we have in a nutshell the church’s attitude to the respective positions of man and woman. The man’s role is to be the head, the woman’s to submit to him. The meaning is crystal clear, unmistakable; and yet, despite the fundamentalists who firmly believe such Iron Age prejudices still apply today, there are many liberal Christians who have the decency to cringe at the primitiveness of such instructions and who therefore bend over backwards to pretend they’re not as bad as they quite patently are. “Ah yes,” they say, “but Paul goes on to say that husbands must love their wives. And not just love them, but love them as they love themselves. So clearly this is a reciprocal arrangement, equal in value, imposing constraints of equal weight on both man and wife. All is well with the world and we can continue to pretend that Christianity is the friend of women.” But no. All is not well with the world, and only the deluded or the disingenuous could claim to see equality where there is only subservience. It is interesting to note the context in which this infamous passage occurs: immediately following the commandment to women to submit to their husbands we find the commandment to children to obey their parents, and to slaves to obey their owners. No amount of instruction to the husbands, parents and owners in question not to ruthlessly exploit their positions of power can alter the fact that women are classed with children and slaves when it comes to their social standing, freedom and self-determination and, like them, are called on to embrace their inferior status with cheerfulness and enthusiasm. In this same sequence of instructions slave-owners are exhorted not to threaten their slaves. Does this make slavery acceptable? Of course not. Only religion could attempt to present such a loathsome idea as though it were not a blot on the dignity of humankind, and the requirement for women always to submit to their menfolk is no less repugnant. click "Washington Post" above to read the rest. |
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burnsattornincan
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Post by burnsattornincan on Apr 20, 2011 6:54:36 GMT -5
ZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzz............ zzzzzzZZZZZZZ..... ZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzz.... zzzzZZZZzzzz.... zzzzZZZZZZ... zzZZZZzzzzz... zzzzZZZz.. zzzzz... zzzz...
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Apr 20, 2011 6:55:47 GMT -5
Interesting and controversial subject. I'm wondering though, just how does it relate to Politics and the Markets?  we've had a decision by other mods that religion was up for discussion here. if you think it should be moved, please feel free to move it. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2011 7:02:29 GMT -5
It was interesting how, given our desire to remove religion from politics, how they do seem to go hand in hand, especially these days? or maybe it just feels like 'especially' these days...
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Apr 20, 2011 7:05:05 GMT -5
ZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzz............ zzzzzzZZZZZZZ..... ZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzz.... zzzzZZZZzzzz.... zzzzZZZZZZ... zzZZZZzzzzz... zzzzZZZz.. zzzzz... zzzz...  need some coffee this morning, sir? I'll share mine. be warned, there is an espresso boost in it this fine day. ETA: snerd, read the whole thing. what I posted is just the beginning. it does touch on other religions, not just Christianity. it's actually a pretty interesting read. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2011 7:08:25 GMT -5
Christianity has not traditionally placed a high value on women. Church leaders have a long history of treating women as the original sinners and second class citizens... Right down to the misscasting of Mary Magdalene as a whore...
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Politically_Incorrect12
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Post by Politically_Incorrect12 on Apr 20, 2011 7:16:59 GMT -5
Attacking religion isn't a new thing. When calling people ignorant for believing in God doesn't work, they move on to call it sexist. Next, I am sure they will come up with something else.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2011 7:20:18 GMT -5
Snerd... 1) religion is interpreted and implemented by the masses, and traditionally it is not in a way positive to women....
Politically... sorry, but are you suggesting that religion doesn't treat men and women any differently from one another?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2011 7:42:49 GMT -5
Politically implied that it was wrong to suggest that religion is sexist....
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burnsattornincan
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Post by burnsattornincan on Apr 20, 2011 7:50:09 GMT -5
need some coffee this morning, sir?
Thank you for the offer dear Ms. chiver78. Excuse my drowsiness but religion, women and Carter in the same paragraph equates to a bottle of Nyquil in my opinion. Regards, /Dalton.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Apr 20, 2011 7:58:57 GMT -5
need some coffee this morning, sir?Thank you for the offer dear Ms. chiver78. Excuse my drowsiness but religion, women and Carter in the same paragraph equates to a bottle of Nyquil in my opinion. Regards, /Dalton. Then go back to sleep and quit running your mouth when all you have to contribute is that you don't like to discuss the topic being discussed. NOw, back on topic since Burns is napping againt. Very interesting read. I think religious leaders of all religions have parsed phrases from their holy books to subjugate women. |
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Post by privateinvestor on Apr 20, 2011 8:01:38 GMT -5
need some coffee this morning, sir?Thank you for the offer dear Ms. chiver78. Excuse my drowsiness but religion, women and Carter in the same paragraph equates to a bottle of Nyquil in my opinion. Regards, /Dalton.  Spot on once again Dalton |
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Apr 20, 2011 8:03:05 GMT -5
need some coffee this morning, sir?Thank you for the offer dear Ms. chiver78. Excuse my drowsiness but religion, women and Carter in the same paragraph equates to a bottle of Nyquil in my opinion. Regards, /Dalton. Then go back to sleep and quit running your mouth when all you have to contribute is that you don't like to discuss the topic being discussed. NOw, back on topic since Burns is napping againt. Very interesting read. I think religious leaders of all religions have parsed phrases from their holy books to subjugate women.  thanks swamp, you beat me to it. |
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Post by privateinvestor on Apr 20, 2011 8:03:05 GMT -5
Interesting and controversial subject. I'm wondering though, just how does it relate to Politics and the Markets? It doesn't & who cares about Jimmy Carter?? |
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ChiTownVenture
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Post by ChiTownVenture on Apr 20, 2011 8:18:49 GMT -5
It was interesting how, given our desire to remove religion from politics, how they do seem to go hand in hand, especially these days? or maybe it just feels like 'especially' these days... In my opinion the correlation relates to the constant battle of trying to separate religion out of politics. This applies to the day to day actions of the government along with the treatment of different classes, minorities, sexes, etc. Historically there has been a religious subtext to a lot of the discrimination that the government has supported. This includes the devaluation of women's rights. Today we have government representatives debating new laws using the Christian bible as reference. This does not hold true, to the separation of church and state. It doesn't even support the idea that the country was founded on the escape from religious persecution. It's a default fall back to historical times before the US was a nation to the idea of a single state religion. Just look at the statements made on this board, there are members that would love to see the US declared a Christian country. That is scary, and IMO those people are not holding true to America's values and history. |
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Post by moon/Laura on Apr 20, 2011 8:23:54 GMT -5
we've had a decision by other mods that religion was up for discussion here. if you think it should be moved, please feel free to move it. without having read any of the thread other than this, i will say that i know of no such discussion. if religion happens to tie in with politics, that's one thing.. but religion AS the topic is entirely another. not saying (at this time) whether it will or won't be moved to EE, but be prepared either way. |
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Post by privateinvestor on Apr 20, 2011 8:29:17 GMT -5
not saying (at this time) whether it will or won't be moved to EE, but be prepared either way.
What about just bashing religion by our resident feminist atheists or Catholics who left their church??
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Apr 20, 2011 8:29:49 GMT -5
we've had a decision by other mods that religion was up for discussion here. if you think it should be moved, please feel free to move it. without having read any of the thread other than this, i will say that i know of no such discussion. if religion happens to tie in with politics, that's one thing.. but religion AS the topic is entirely another. not saying (at this time) whether it will or won't be moved to EE, but be prepared either way. Please, no. |
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Post by privateinvestor on Apr 20, 2011 8:31:14 GMT -5
[
Please, no.
Why?? Make your case...
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Apr 20, 2011 8:35:31 GMT -5
[ Please, no. Why?? Make your case... Because I don't want it to go there? Meh, no good reason. Go ahead and move it there, and then the PM'ers can bitch about how stupid the sEEgulls are. |
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floridayankee
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Post by floridayankee on Apr 20, 2011 8:38:14 GMT -5
Most religions have evolved past the strict interpretations of ancient teachings of violence and discrimination in their holy books. Sure, there are radicals in every religion, but for the most part, the strict religions radicals are few and far between.
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Post by privateinvestor on Apr 20, 2011 8:38:18 GMT -5
Because I don't want it to go there? Meh, no good reason. Go ahead and move it there, and then the PM'ers can bitch about how stupid the sEEgulls are.
That is a rather weak case but not unexpected...play the feminist victim card ad nauseum which is really rather tiresome, and over played..IMHO
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Apr 20, 2011 8:40:20 GMT -5
Because I don't want it to go there? Meh, no good reason. Go ahead and move it there, and then the PM'ers can bitch about how stupid the sEEgulls are. That is a rather weak case but not unexpected...play the feminist victim card ad nauseum which is really rather tiresome, and over played..IMHO Who said anything about feminism? Who said anything about victim? |
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Post by privateinvestor on Apr 20, 2011 8:48:10 GMT -5
Who said anything about feminism? Who said anything about victim?
I did..reply # 25 in case you missed reading it
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Apr 20, 2011 8:53:19 GMT -5
Who said anything about feminism? Who said anything about victim? I did..reply # 25 in case you missed reading it Yes you did, but I have no idea WTH you're talking about because I didn't mention feminism or victimization previously, nor did any of my posts. I said it is my opinion that PM'ers think the sEEgulls are stupid. You either have a reading comprehension issue, or you're making shit up to annoy me. Either one is not pretty. |
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Post by privateinvestor on Apr 20, 2011 8:56:42 GMT -5
Yes you did, but I have no idea WTH you're talking about because I didn't mention feminism or victimization previously, nor did any of my posts. I said it is my opinion that PM'ers think the sEEgulls are stupid. You either have a reading comprehension issue, or you're making shit up to annoy me. Either one is not pretty.
If you want to trash and bash religion then go ahead and do your thing...but it reeks of feminine victimization....IMHO
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Apr 20, 2011 9:00:00 GMT -5
Yes you did, but I have no idea WTH you're talking about because I didn't mention feminism or victimization previously, nor did any of my posts. I said it is my opinion that PM'ers think the sEEgulls are stupid. You either have a reading comprehension issue, or you're making shit up to annoy me. Either one is not pretty. If you want to trash and bash religion then go ahead and do your thing...but it reeks of feminine victimization....IMHO What are you talking about? I respect the freedom of religion, I hope there is a God and an afterlife, but I'm not a "true believer." I have some issues with organized religion being used to pereptrate social wrongs and continue social injustice status quos. Why is that bashing religion? |
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Apr 20, 2011 9:00:19 GMT -5
And I see the pot is being stirred. Do you want me to back off? |
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Apr 20, 2011 9:16:21 GMT -5
I want P.I. and you to back away from the precipice please. Gotcha. I'll take my feminazi Godless dogma back to EE where it belongs.  |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2011 9:19:10 GMT -5
It reeks of female victimization to question a tenet that suggests women should treat their man like God ? |
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