Sexual Harassment or Other

[daisylu]

Coworker was just called into manager's office. Last year, she went to dinner twice with a guy IT. She was honest with him and told him that she did not to be his girlfriend, but they could be friends. They got along fine for a while, but something changed on his end and he asked her to only contact him on his work phone - which she was fine with. To me, it seemed like he wanted her to ask for more. He then contacted me asking for a former employee's (who did not leave on good terms) phone number. I told him that I delete former employees contact info from my phone, especially those who leave on bad terms to avoid any drama or retaliation (viruses, etc). He pushed and asked if maybe I had it on an old email. I knew he wanted it to start drama and there was no way I was getting involved.


Anyway, he told manager that she has given out his personal phone number, which she says she has not, and that guys are harassing him. I do not believe that because she very rarely dates. And in my own experience the IT guy is a little strange. 


Manager says that he should be aware of any relationships she has within the company. That is his stance, not the company. Company policy only states that relatives or people in relationships can not direct report to other relatives or partners. FWIW manger did agree with her that the IT guy is a little different.

I think she should file a complaint against the IT guy in case things escalate, but she doesn't think it would fall under sexual harassment. What say you?

[stillmovingforward]

I think it falls under "I'm making you formally aware in case this continues to escalate" clause.

Otherwise, he can get away with doing this to others but never falls over the "I'm reporting you" line. Which I'm sure he knows right where that is.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

It counts as sexual harassment as far as our training is concerned.  She went on a date with him and now is creating drama that seems to be directly related to the fact she didn't want to be his girlfriend.  It is considered possible retaliation.

If he is "odd" yes she needs to go to HR so they can look into it.  Too many women don't want to create drama, hurt feelings or make someone look like a bad guy and end up dead.  If there is nothing to it then HR will end the investigation.  If there is now the company is aware and can handle it, especially if his behavior escalates.

Your manager should be slapped down as well.  It is not his business who dates whom in his department.  If that is not a company policy HR should also be aware of his comments so they can remind him he's walking into potential lawsuit territory there.  That can also be considered harassment and potentially fall under quid pro quo because he's a manager and can directly affect raises/promotions should he decide he not approve of the relationship.

[geenamercile]

I would direct her to talk to HR about it, and leave it at that.  I would do that no matter who I believed. And then stay out of any conversation about it unless your manager or HR ask you some thing officially and directly about it.  At this point I would want to be careful that any conversation I had about it would not end up as part of a complaint.

[daisylu]

Mar 24, 2023 9:27:40 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

It counts as sexual harassment as far as our training is concerned.  She went on a date with him and now is creating drama that seems to be directly related to the fact she didn't want to be his girlfriend.  It is considered possible retaliation.

If he is "odd" yes she needs to go to HR so they can look into it.  Too many women don't want to create drama, hurt feelings or make someone look like a bad guy and end up dead.  If there is nothing to it then HR will end the investigation.  If there is now the company is aware and can handle it, especially if his behavior escalates.

Your manager should be slapped down as well.  It is not his business who dates whom in his department.  If that is not a company policy HR should also be aware of his comments so they can remind him he's walking into potential lawsuit territory there.  That can also be considered harassment and potentially fall under quid pro quo because he's a manager and can directly affect raises/promotions should he decide he not approve of the relationship.

The bolded is what I thought too, and our organization has very strict no retaliation rules.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Also here, for FWIW, it doesn't matter if you are not the one being harassed.  If you witness it or hear about it you can also report it.  In fact they encourage it because it is understood some victims may be too intimidated to come forward and then the behavior just continues.  I can do so anonymously if I choose.  I would not be outed to either party only HR would know it's me.

I did that at UNMC only I chose not to remain anonymous because I wanted the ahole to know it was me.  He cussed out my coworker and made her cry.  She didn't want to confrontation so I went and told our manager for her.  She talked to my coworker then called his boss and reamed the guy out.   He shouldn't have been acting like that towards anyone period and deserved to have his ass handed to him.

[daisylu]

Mar 24, 2023 9:49:05 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Also here, for FWIW, it doesn't matter if you are not the one being harassed.  If you witness it or hear about it you can also report it.  In fact they encourage it because it is understood some victims may be too intimidated to come forward and then the behavior just continues.  I can do so anonymously if I choose.  I would not be outed to either party only HR would know it's me.

I did that at UNMC only I chose not to remain anonymous because I wanted the ahole to know it was me.  He cussed out my coworker and made her cry.  She didn't want to confrontation so I went and told our manager for her.  She talked to my coworker then called his boss and reamed the guy out.   He shouldn't have been acting like that towards anyone period and deserved to have his ass handed to him.

It is similar here, only they use a third party to report. If you choose to remain anonymous, not even HR will know who complained. I have filed complaints both ways. Anonymous just to avoid fallout, and not anonymous when I filed about what I saw done to another employee. I did not want it to be assumed that they filed and make their life miserable. I may do that now.

She did say that the conversation was very uncomfortable and that she does not want her manager knowing about her personal life. She is now firmly on the side that the conversation itself was inappropriate.

[Tennesseer]

Mar 24, 2023 9:09:10 GMT -5 daisylu said:

Coworker was just called into manager's office. Last year, she went to dinner twice with a guy IT. She was honest with him and told him that she did not to be his girlfriend, but they could be friends. They got along fine for a while, but something changed on his end and he asked her to only contact him on his work phone - which she was fine with. To me, it seemed like he wanted her to ask for more. He then contacted me asking for a former employee's (who did not leave on good terms) phone number. I told him that I delete former employees contact info from my phone, especially those who leave on bad terms to avoid any drama or retaliation (viruses, etc). He pushed and asked if maybe I had it on an old email. I knew he wanted it to start drama and there was no way I was getting involved.


Anyway, he told manager that she has given out his personal phone number, which she says she has not, and that guys are harassing him. I do not believe that because she very rarely dates. And in my own experience the IT guy is a little strange. 


Manager says that he should be aware of any relationships she has within the company. That is his stance, not the company. Company policy only states that relatives or people in relationships can not direct report to other relatives or partners. FWIW manger did agree with her that the IT guy is a little different.

I think she should file a complaint against the IT guy in case things escalate, but she doesn't think it would fall under sexual harassment. What say you?

Nothing has happened to date which would warrant an official investigation into sexual harassment. Why she should do is start a paper trail via emails to her manager and HR regarding her concerns. There is no disputing paper trail concerns in the future.

[nidena]

I'm in agreement about the paper trail.  Even if it doesn't fit the *technical* definition of sexual harassment, it's important to document any starts to potential patterns of behavior.

[finnime]

I think it's gender-based harassment, sexual or not. She should not have to put up with being harassed at all.

[billisonboard]

Mar 24, 2023 9:09:10 GMT -5 daisylu said:

Coworker was just called into manager's office. Last year, she went to dinner twice with a guy IT. She was honest with him and told him that she did not to be his girlfriend, but they could be friends. They got along fine for a while, but something changed on his end and he asked her to only contact him on his work phone - which she was fine with. To me, it seemed like he wanted her to ask for more. He then contacted me asking for a former employee's (who did not leave on good terms) phone number. I told him that I delete former employees contact info from my phone, especially those who leave on bad terms to avoid any drama or retaliation (viruses, etc). He pushed and asked if maybe I had it on an old email. I knew he wanted it to start drama and there was no way I was getting involved.


Anyway, he told manager that she has given out his personal phone number, which she says she has not, and that guys are harassing him. I do not believe that because she very rarely dates. And in my own experience the IT guy is a little strange. 


Manager says that he should be aware of any relationships she has within the company. That is his stance, not the company. Company policy only states that relatives or people in relationships can not direct report to other relatives or partners. FWIW manger did agree with her that the IT guy is a little different.

I think she should file a complaint against the IT guy in case things escalate, but she doesn't think it would fall under sexual harassment. What say you?

Couple dinners, be friends, was okay, he asked no more calls to personal number - only to work phone. He attempted to get contact info for another person. He tells manager she was giving out his personal number.

A third person thinks he wanted more, wanted to create drama, doesn't think she was giving out number, and is a little strange.

What did the IT guy do wrong?

[Opti]

Mar 24, 2023 18:29:30 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Mar 24, 2023 9:09:10 GMT -5 daisylu said:

Coworker was just called into manager's office. Last year, she went to dinner twice with a guy IT. She was honest with him and told him that she did not to be his girlfriend, but they could be friends. They got along fine for a while, but something changed on his end and he asked her to only contact him on his work phone - which she was fine with. To me, it seemed like he wanted her to ask for more. He then contacted me asking for a former employee's (who did not leave on good terms) phone number. I told him that I delete former employees contact info from my phone, especially those who leave on bad terms to avoid any drama or retaliation (viruses, etc). He pushed and asked if maybe I had it on an old email. I knew he wanted it to start drama and there was no way I was getting involved.


Anyway, he told manager that she has given out his personal phone number, which she says she has not, and that guys are harassing him. I do not believe that because she very rarely dates. And in my own experience the IT guy is a little strange. 


Manager says that he should be aware of any relationships she has within the company. That is his stance, not the company. Company policy only states that relatives or people in relationships can not direct report to other relatives or partners. FWIW manger did agree with her that the IT guy is a little different.

I think she should file a complaint against the IT guy in case things escalate, but she doesn't think it would fall under sexual harassment. What say you?

Couple dinners, be friends, was okay, he asked no more calls to personal number - only to work phone. He attempted to get contact info for another person. He tells manager she was giving out his personal number.

A third person thinks he wanted more, wanted to create drama, doesn't think she was giving out number, and is a little strange.

What did the IT guy do wrong?

I can tell you are not a woman used to being gaslit and false accusations thrown out just because you exist and someone feels entitled to squash you for whatever reason.

So this guy kind of actually does what he is accusing this coworker of doing, trying to geta phone number he is not entitled to. Odds are he has called more people than the poster to try to get that number. Red flag number one.

Why would anyone use other people to call someone if they weren't interested in them and went on mercy dates and then stopped? They wouldn't. It sounds like a fantastical story designed to hook in pro white male listeners. So this is red flag#2.

Red flag 3 and 4 - If he really was getting unwanted calls, why hasn't he blocked them to stop it? If its so awful why not change phone numbers, problem would be solved. Does he have any proof he is getting unwanted calls, that they got his number from her, and lastly  are they repeat calls with actual messages or texts for proof?

[billisonboard]

Mar 24, 2023 19:12:50 GMT -5 Opti said:

Mar 24, 2023 18:29:30 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Couple dinners, be friends, was okay, he asked no more calls to personal number - only to work phone. He attempted to get contact info for another person. He tells manager she was giving out his personal number.

A third person thinks he wanted more, wanted to create drama, doesn't think she was giving out number, and is a little strange.

What did the IT guy do wrong?

I can tell you are not a woman used to being gaslit and false accusations thrown out just because you exist and someone feels entitled to squash you for whatever reason.

So this guy kind of actually does what he is accusing this coworker of doing, trying to geta phone number he is not entitled to. Odds are he has called more people than the poster to try to get that number. Red flag number one.

Why would anyone use other people to call someone if they weren't interested in them and went on mercy dates and then stopped? They wouldn't. It sounds like a fantastical story designed to hook in pro white male listeners. So this is red flag#2.

Red flag 3 and 4 - If he really was getting unwanted calls, why hasn't he blocked them to stop it? If its so awful why not change phone numbers, problem would be solved. Does he have any proof he is getting unwanted calls, that they got his number from her, and lastly  are they repeat calls with actual messages or texts for proof?

So red flag one is based on "kinda of" and "odds are". Red flag two is based on "sounds like". Did he not block the calls? Change numbers? We don't know. Do we know if he has proof or not? No. So three and four are based on things we don't know.

But what is factual is that I am a white guy. So there is that.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Mar 24, 2023 9:49:05 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Also here, for FWIW, it doesn't matter if you are not the one being harassed.  If you witness it or hear about it you can also report it.  In fact they encourage it because it is understood some victims may be too intimidated to come forward and then the behavior just continues.  I can do so anonymously if I choose.  I would not be outed to either party only HR would know it's me.

I did that at UNMC only I chose not to remain anonymous because I wanted the ahole to know it was me.  He cussed out my coworker and made her cry.  She didn't want to confrontation so I went and told our manager for her.  She talked to my coworker then called his boss and reamed the guy out.   He shouldn't have been acting like that towards anyone period and deserved to have his ass handed to him.

This.  I clearly remember a module about observing the harassment and being able to report it, even if it’s not you being harassed.  I’m not sure how it’s handled if you are told by some one who is being harassed though.  

[Opti]

Daisylu, I's like some clarification on your OP.


Anyway, he told manager that she has given out his personal phone number, which she says she has not, and that guys are harassing him. I do not believe that because she very rarely dates.

Why would her dating frequency have anything to do with anyone at all calling him? I had a horrible thought. If she is giving out his number as a way to avoid giving out her own to men she is not interested in, she needs to cease and desist immediately.

[daisylu]

Mar 25, 2023 7:57:52 GMT -5 Opti said:

Daisylu, I's like some clarification on your OP.


Anyway, he told manager that she has given out his personal phone number, which she says she has not, and that guys are harassing him. I do not believe that because she very rarely dates.

Why would her dating frequency have anything to do with anyone at all calling him? I had a horrible thought. If she is giving out his number as a way to avoid giving out her own to men she is not interested in, she needs to cease and desist immediately.

She is now a fifty year old grandmother who is more about raising her youngest grandchild (1yo) and his well being. In the time I have known her (3 years) she avoids drama as much as she can. After the couple of dinners with the IT guy, she has not dated anyone choosing to focus on her kids and their issues. She has no issue putting people on notice and blocking them. She is pretty straight forward, so I seriously doubt she is using his number as a buffer.

He says maen are calling and threatening him over her, but she has no men in her life. I believe he is completely making that up.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Even if it's not sexual harassment him making those kinds of claims need to be looked into.

Cause say he's right he'd also deserve protection from harassment.

If he's delusional....I'm probably going to get flamed but these kinds of things tend to be what everyone talks about in hindsight after a mass shooting.

Encourage her to Report her concerns and/or Report you concerns that there is a person making outrageous claims.

It may come to nothing but then he's at least on the radar.

[billisonboard]

Mar 25, 2023 8:15:50 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Even if it's not sexual harassment him making those kinds of claims need to be looked into.

Cause say he's right he'd also deserve protection from harassment.

If he's delusional....I'm probably going to get flamed but these kinds of things tend to be what everyone talks about in hindsight after a mass shooting.

Encourage her to Report her concerns and/or Report you concerns that there is a person making outrageous claims.

It may come to nothing but then he's at least on the radar.

think this focuses attention on the true problem. Not sure of the larger organizational structure involved here. Seems the manager should be taking the lead on reporting this potential mental health issue.

[Opti]

Mar 25, 2023 8:11:44 GMT -5 daisylu said:

Mar 25, 2023 7:57:52 GMT -5 Opti said:

Daisylu, I's like some clarification on your OP.


Anyway, he told manager that she has given out his personal phone number, which she says she has not, and that guys are harassing him. I do not believe that because she very rarely dates.

Why would her dating frequency have anything to do with anyone at all calling him? I had a horrible thought. If she is giving out his number as a way to avoid giving out her own to men she is not interested in, she needs to cease and desist immediately.

She is now a fifty year old grandmother who is more about raising her youngest grandchild (1yo) and his well being. In the time I have known her (3 years) she avoids drama as much as she can. After the couple of dinners with the IT guy, she has not dated anyone choosing to focus on her kids and their issues. She has no issue putting people on notice and blocking them. She is pretty straight forward, so I seriously doubt she is using his number as a buffer.

He says maen are calling and threatening him over her, but she has no men in her life. I believe he is completely making that up.

TY for clarifying. My instinct was he was making it up, but given your comment I had the concern I expressed. I think she does need to enter her experience with HR and perhaps the manager, but my impression is the manager is more inclined to believe IT guy than her. 

Harassment should be reported. The manager requesting to know about her relationships should be reported to HR as well. Most companies do not empower managers to investigate any kind of harassment claims. I hope you do report your interactions with IT guy requesting that number especially if you can do so anonymously.

[daisylu]

Mar 25, 2023 8:51:44 GMT -5 Opti said:

Mar 25, 2023 8:11:44 GMT -5 daisylu said:

She is now a fifty year old grandmother who is more about raising her youngest grandchild (1yo) and his well being. In the time I have known her (3 years) she avoids drama as much as she can. After the couple of dinners with the IT guy, she has not dated anyone choosing to focus on her kids and their issues. She has no issue putting people on notice and blocking them. She is pretty straight forward, so I seriously doubt she is using his number as a buffer.

He says maen are calling and threatening him over her, but she has no men in her life. I believe he is completely making that up.

TY for clarifying. My instinct was he was making it up, but given your comment I had the concern I expressed. I think she does need to enter her experience with HR and perhaps the manager, but my impression is the manager is more inclined to believe IT guy than her. 

Harassment should be reported. The manager requesting to know about her relationships should be reported to HR as well. Most companies do not empower managers to investigate any kind of harassment claims. I hope you do report your interactions with IT guy requesting that number especially if you can do so anonymously.

I hate that I had that as a qualifier, but that is still a thing that people ask. Like the woman who dresses scantily is asking to be raped.

[billisonboard]

Mar 25, 2023 8:57:43 GMT -5 daisylu said:

Mar 25, 2023 8:51:44 GMT -5 Opti said:

TY for clarifying. My instinct was he was making it up, but given your comment I had the concern I expressed. I think she does need to enter her experience with HR and perhaps the manager, but my impression is the manager is more inclined to believe IT guy than her.

Harassment should be reported. The manager requesting to know about her relationships should be reported to HR as well. Most companies do not empower managers to investigate any kind of harassment claims. I hope you do report your interactions with IT guy requesting that number especially if you can do so anonymously.

I hate that I had that as a qualifier, but that is still a thing that people ask. Like the woman who dresses scantily is asking to be raped.

Or in this case:

If he really was getting unwanted calls, why hasn't he blocked them to stop it? If its so awful why not change phone numbers, problem would be solved. Does he have any proof he is getting unwanted calls, that they got his number from her, and lastly  are they repeat calls with actual messages or texts for proof?

[daisylu]

Mar 25, 2023 9:04:16 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Mar 25, 2023 8:57:43 GMT -5 daisylu said:

I hate that I had that as a qualifier, but that is still a thing that people ask. Like the woman who dresses scantily is asking to be raped.

Or in this case:

If he really was getting unwanted calls, why hasn't he blocked them to stop it? If its so awful why not change phone numbers, problem would be solved. Does he have any proof he is getting unwanted calls, that they got his number from her, and lastly  are they repeat calls with actual messages or texts for proof?

To my knowledge, he has not shown any proof. If that was the case he should have reported to HR, not her manager. He only went to the manager after she blocked both his personal and work numbers from her personal cell, saying she would only contact him through email or Teams which are company records.

ETA - The lack of information or evidence is why I believe manager should not have even addressed coworker about this. Manager should have referred him to file a claim with HR.

[billisonboard]

Mar 25, 2023 9:10:48 GMT -5 daisylu said:

Mar 25, 2023 9:04:16 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Or in this case:

If he really was getting unwanted calls, why hasn't he blocked them to stop it? If its so awful why not change phone numbers, problem would be solved. Does he have any proof he is getting unwanted calls, that they got his number from her, and lastly are they repeat calls with actual messages or texts for proof?

To my knowledge, he has not shown any proof. If that was the case he should have reported to HR, not her manager. He only went to the manager after she blocked both his personal and work numbers from her personal cell, saying she would only contact him through email or Teams which are company records.

ETA - The lack of information or evidence is why I believe manager should not have even addressed coworker about this. Manager should have referred him to file a claim with HR.

So she blocked him instead of "he asked her to only contact him on his work phone". That changes the situation significantly.

I agree the manager has not dealt with situation appropriately.

[Tiny]

Coworker was just called into manager's office. Last year, she went to dinner twice with a guy IT. She was honest with him and told him that she did not to be his girlfriend, but they could be friends. They got along fine for a while, but something changed on his end and he asked her to only contact him on his work phone - which she was fine with. To me, it seemed like he wanted her to ask for more. He then contacted me asking for a former employee's (who did not leave on good terms) phone number. I told him that I delete former employees contact info from my phone, especially those who leave on bad terms to avoid any drama or retaliation (viruses, etc). He pushed and asked if maybe I had it on an old email. I knew he wanted it to start drama and there was no way I was getting involved.

There is so much confusing stuff in here... is the IT Guy not clever enough to find the Former Guy's phone number on-line OR buried in the data/some report he has available via his position in IT (and yes that last part is BAD.) ? I don't think think IT Guy asking for a phone number has anything to do with why your coworker got called into the manager's office.

What do you mean by he pushed and asked about an old email? Was he getting angry or agitated at this point? Or was he just running thru a list of places the old phone number might be found. I'm guessing he didn't translate "I delete old employees phone numbers from my phone" to mean "weather I have or don't have this guys phone number is NONE of your business."

The sexual harassment (or harassment) comes in here:

The other weirdness here is that the coworker said "I don't want to be your girlfriend but we can be friends." The "We can be friends" doesn't always translate to "hey we can be friends but we're not kissing and having sex." it often translates to "I'm playing hard to get - you still have a chance with me". And it looks like the two of them kept communicating. We don't know if the woman was hoping the IT Guy would eventually stop callng/texting her, asking her to go out, etc. <--- that's the harrassment part. when the guy doesn't take "we can be friends" for "stop calling me, I don't want to hang with you socially, but we can be friendly when we are at work (or if we accidentally meet up in a social situation).

This is between a manager, HR, and the female coworker... unless she's confided to you that she's being made to feel uncomfortable with all the calls and texts she gets from IT Guy....

Anyway, he told manager that she has given out his personal phone number, which she says she has not, and that guys are harassing him. I do not believe that because she very rarely dates. And in my own experience the IT guy is a little strange.

I think this is something the manager will need to handle. the manager has IT Guy saying he is being harassed outside of work by presumably people who do are not employed by this employer.

And yes if the IT Guy's personal phone has caller ID he probably has a list of the numbers that call him.

Maybe THAT"s why he is looking for the phone number of the guy who left on bad terms... maybe IT Guy thinks that's who is calling.
Maybe it's IT Guy who's getting harassed by people outside the business (or within it)  and not the woman coworker being harassed by IT Guy.

[Tiny]

FWIW: there's not enough info in the OP. Is the woman coworker still trying to get the IT Guy to understand that she doesn't want to talk to him socially? Do they both have the same definition of "I dont' want to date you - but we can still be friends" means

In my corporate harassment training (it's not even labeled "sexual" anymore because there are LOTS of ways to bully and harass other people) one of the scenarios was the "but we can be friends" thing... It's complicated ending a relationship (even if it was just a date or two) and women often feel pressured to not end it and so concede that bit about being "friends" which leaves the other person with a reason to keep trying. Which the woman may not want at all. She just wants it ended.

If IT Guy guy's calls/texts make the woman uncomfortable and she really wants to end the relationship but can't figure out how to do (IT Guy isn't translating anything she says to mean "we're done" ) then yes maybe a manager or HR can help them.   That's the "harassment" part - the being uncomfortable (or scared) and not being able to get the other person to stop. 

[daisylu]

Mar 25, 2023 9:26:38 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Mar 25, 2023 9:10:48 GMT -5 daisylu said:

To my knowledge, he has not shown any proof. If that was the case he should have reported to HR, not her manager. He only went to the manager after she blocked both his personal and work numbers from her personal cell, saying she would only contact him through email or Teams which are company records.

ETA - The lack of information or evidence is why I believe manager should not have even addressed coworker about this. Manager should have referred him to file a claim with HR.

So she blocked him instead of "he asked her to only contact him on his work phone". That changes the situation significantly.

I agree the manager has not dealt with situation appropriately.

She blocked him after he asked her to only contact him on his work phone, and said she would only contact him through email or Teams. Sorry, I forgot that part.

[daisylu]

Mar 25, 2023 9:36:51 GMT -5 Tiny said:

Coworker was just called into manager's office. Last year, she went to dinner twice with a guy IT. She was honest with him and told him that she did not to be his girlfriend, but they could be friends. They got along fine for a while, but something changed on his end and he asked her to only contact him on his work phone - which she was fine with. To me, it seemed like he wanted her to ask for more. He then contacted me asking for a former employee's (who did not leave on good terms) phone number. I told him that I delete former employees contact info from my phone, especially those who leave on bad terms to avoid any drama or retaliation (viruses, etc). He pushed and asked if maybe I had it on an old email. I knew he wanted it to start drama and there was no way I was getting involved.

There is so much confusing stuff in here... is the IT Guy not clever enough to find the Former Guy's phone number on-line OR buried in the data/some report he has available via his position in IT (and yes that last part is BAD.) ? I don't think think IT Guy asking for a phone number has anything to do with why your coworker got called into the manager's office.

What do you mean by he pushed and asked about an old email? Was he getting angry or agitated at this point? Or was he just running thru a list of places the old phone number might be found. I'm guessing he didn't translate "I delete old employees phone numbers from my phone" to mean "weather I have or don't have this guys phone number is NONE of your business."

The sexual harassment (or harassment) comes in here:

The other weirdness here is that the coworker said "I don't want to be your girlfriend but we can be friends." The "We can be friends" doesn't always translate to "hey we can be friends but we're not kissing and having sex." it often translates to "I'm playing hard to get - you still have a chance with me". And it looks like the two of them kept communicating. We don't know if the woman was hoping the IT Guy would eventually stop callng/texting her, asking her to go out, etc. <--- that's the harrassment part. when the guy doesn't take "we can be friends" for "stop calling me, I don't want to hang with you socially, but we can be friendly when we are at work (or if we accidentally meet up in a social situation).

This is between a manager, HR, and the female coworker... unless she's confided to you that she's being made to feel uncomfortable with all the calls and texts she gets from IT Guy....

Anyway, he told manager that she has given out his personal phone number, which she says she has not, and that guys are harassing him. I do not believe that because she very rarely dates. And in my own experience the IT guy is a little strange.

I think this is something the manager will need to handle. the manager has IT Guy saying he is being harassed outside of work by presumably people who do are not employed by this employer.

And yes if the IT Guy's personal phone has caller ID he probably has a list of the numbers that call him.

Maybe THAT"s why he is looking for the phone number of the guy who left on bad terms... maybe IT Guy thinks that's who is calling.
Maybe it's IT Guy who's getting harassed by people outside the business (or within it)  and not the woman coworker being harassed by IT Guy.

Former employee IT guy was trying to contact was a female who was full of drama and left on bad terms. She is mostly offline, no social media, and never had company phone. And yes, this IT guy is not very good at IT.

The "We can be friends" doesn't always translate to "hey we can be friends but we're not kissing and having sex." it often translates to "I'm playing hard to get - you still have a chance with me". And it looks like the two of them kept communicating. - She communicated on a business level, which he then took offense to. I am not going to address the "I'm playing hard to get" part of this post as this is what is wrong with society. IMO, if a woman says she wants to be friends that should be the end. Unless she later asks for more. Unwanted attention is unwanted attention. If a woman wants more, she can ask for it.

[Opti]

Mar 25, 2023 9:04:16 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Mar 25, 2023 8:57:43 GMT -5 daisylu said:

I hate that I had that as a qualifier, but that is still a thing that people ask. Like the woman who dresses scantily is asking to be raped.

Or in this case:

If he really was getting unwanted calls, why hasn't he blocked them to stop it? If its so awful why not change phone numbers, problem would be solved. Does he have any proof he is getting unwanted calls, that they got his number from her, and lastly  are they repeat calls with actual messages or texts for proof?

He's complaining about something, and he needs to prove its not just talk. I would request the same of a woman complaining about the same thing.

We are not on a level playing field gender wise when it comes to harassment and violence. Men are far more prone overall to harassing women and even killing those women they are obsessed with than the reverse situation. Not too long ago, a man got convicted of killing a female coworker on his lunch hour. A young female adult was found slaughtered in a company breakroom after the only accommodation mgmt gave her was to not work on the same shift. To get OT, that manager only offered her shifts with him also on duty and she unfortunately accepted one and ended up dead. 

[billisonboard]

Mar 25, 2023 9:43:55 GMT -5 daisylu said:

Mar 25, 2023 9:26:38 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

So she blocked him instead of "he asked her to only contact him on his work phone". That changes the situation significantly.

I agree the manager has not dealt with situation appropriately.

She blocked him after he asked her to only contact him on his work phone, and said she would only contact him through email or Teams. Sorry, I forgot that part.

That is confusing to me. Why would he ask her to not contact him on his personal phone unless she was contacting him on his personal phone? And the blocking him sounds like, "Well if you don't want me to call you on your personal phone, I am going to make sure you can't call me on mine."

[daisylu]

Mar 25, 2023 10:09:34 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Mar 25, 2023 9:43:55 GMT -5 daisylu said:

She blocked him after he asked her to only contact him on his work phone, and said she would only contact him through email or Teams. Sorry, I forgot that part.

That is confusing to me. Why would he ask her to not contact him on his personal phone unless she was contacting him on his personal phone? And the blocking him sounds like, "Well if you don't want me to call you on your personal phone, I am going to make sure you can't call me on mine."

They were contacting each other via personal phones. He then decided he did not want her to contact him on his personal phone and requested she only use his work cell, so yes she blocked him so that he could not contact her personal phone (she did not have a work cell).