djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 20, 2022 11:37:36 GMT -5
i don't understand why we can't even debate child poverty as an issue.
PARTICULARLY in an era in which we are sentencing teenage mothers to carry out their pregnancies without support. PARTICULARLY in an era where we had a two year pilot program the cut child poverty roughly in HALF.
i really don't understand the US sometimes.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Dec 20, 2022 11:40:09 GMT -5
Protect the foetus at all cost. But it's on its own once born.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 20, 2022 11:48:08 GMT -5
Protect the foetus at all cost. But it's on its own once born. it is so weird to be so obsessed with gestation and not concerned at all after that. we have NEVER....read my lips....NEVER been good at child welfare in this country. and now we are poised to become even WORSE. what is the justification for that? i am trying, but outside of the Swiftian argument, i am having trouble figuring out ANY reason to think that is acceptable.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Dec 20, 2022 11:56:43 GMT -5
Protect the foetus at all cost. But it's on its own once born. it is so weird to be so obsessed with gestation and not concerned at all after that. we have NEVER....read my lips....NEVER been good at child welfare in this country. and now we are poised to become even WORSE. what is the justification for that? i am trying, but outside of the Swiftian argument, i am having trouble figuring out ANY reason to think that is acceptable. Article is from May, 2022. Memphis leads nation with highest number of children living in povertyWatson’s story rings true for many Memphians. In fact, the most recent data from 2020 gathered by the American Community Survey shows the city’s overall poverty rate is nearly 25%. Bluff City leading the nation in overall poverty rates for areas with more than one-million people. “Wages are the main reason. If you work full time at minimum wage. And I say full time, 40-hours. You bring home $290.00 a week,” said Elena Delavega, University of Memphis Professor of Social Work. Data released shows, nearly forty percent of children live in poverty. Securing the number one seed for child poverty too.link
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Dec 20, 2022 12:13:41 GMT -5
the GOP has been trying to undermine social services by driving up the debt for decades. the idea is basically to make debt service a larger budget item to crowd out things like medicare. it is funny to watch them criticize the debt they had the largest hand in creating. actually, funny is not the right word. something closer to hideous would be better. I'll jump in. The debt is on the hands of both parties (Ok GOP more so) and as i said in different posts it all depends on who you talk to what is item is more important to spend money on. My question is how to do help without becoming a socialist society. You would never get enough people to agree to run things like Canada (thankfully so)What, exactly, do you mean by that?
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scgal
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Post by scgal on Dec 20, 2022 13:29:00 GMT -5
The govt role protect our country. Next and our country isn't just the dirt and rocks and trees. It is our citizens. Let me clairify, I just started it off so others can add.
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scgal
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Post by scgal on Dec 20, 2022 13:45:38 GMT -5
I'll jump in. The debt is on the hands of both parties (Ok GOP more so) and as i said in different posts it all depends on who you talk to what is item is more important to spend money on. My question is how to do help without becoming a socialist society. You would never get enough people to agree to run things like Canada (thankfully so)What, exactly, do you mean by that? Im not a big fan of Canada high taxes. Everyone talks about the wonderful healthcare system. While travelling in Canada I talked to several people and asked them to be honest about the healthcare everyone admitted to mostly long wait times and lack of pharmaceuticals. That coupled with I had a friend to moved to Canada years ago because he said it was more homosexual friendly than the US. He and his partner who was both hiv positive could not get the medicine they needed they used to travel back to Florida to get it.
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scgal
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Post by scgal on Dec 20, 2022 13:52:11 GMT -5
i don't understand why we can't even debate child poverty as an issue. PARTICULARLY in an era in which we are sentencing teenage mothers to carry out their pregnancies without support. PARTICULARLY in an era where we had a two year pilot program the cut child poverty roughly in HALF. i really don't understand the US sometimes. What pilot program are you referring to
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 20, 2022 13:54:41 GMT -5
What, exactly, do you mean by that? Im not a big fan of Canada high taxes. Everyone talks about the wonderful healthcare system. While travelling in Canada I talked to several people and asked them to be honest about the healthcare everyone admitted to mostly long wait times and lack of pharmaceuticals. That coupled with I had a friend to moved to Canada years ago because he said it was more homosexual friendly than the US. He and his partner who was both hiv positive could not get the medicine they needed they used to travel back to Florida to get it. Canada's effective tax rate is only 1.5% higher than ours, but we spend 20% of our GDP on healthcare. but sure, that is a "voluntary tax". until you get sick: stats.oecd.org/index.aspx?DataSetCode=CTS_ETR
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 20, 2022 13:55:04 GMT -5
i don't understand why we can't even debate child poverty as an issue. PARTICULARLY in an era in which we are sentencing teenage mothers to carry out their pregnancies without support. PARTICULARLY in an era where we had a two year pilot program the cut child poverty roughly in HALF. i really don't understand the US sometimes. What pilot program are you referring to Covid.
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scgal
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Post by scgal on Dec 20, 2022 13:56:28 GMT -5
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 20, 2022 14:02:29 GMT -5
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 20, 2022 14:02:59 GMT -5
i might mention that this was a cheap program. so it is not COST that keeps us from doing this.
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hurley1980
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Post by hurley1980 on Dec 20, 2022 14:05:57 GMT -5
i don't understand why we can't even debate child poverty as an issue. PARTICULARLY in an era in which we are sentencing teenage mothers to carry out their pregnancies without support. PARTICULARLY in an era where we had a two year pilot program the cut child poverty roughly in HALF. i really don't understand the US sometimes. I gave up long ago on trying to understand my country! It is too depressing, and I have had a hard enough time with my mental health in the last 5 years as it is. There is nothing I can do either. I can protest, vote, etc. But I am not in a state that can change anything, because we are not red or purple. All I can do is sit back and watch us burn to the ground.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 20, 2022 14:08:47 GMT -5
i really just think it is weird. most countries are obsessively concerned with their kids. the US TALKS like it is, too. but it doesn't ACT like it. there is literally ZERO public policy that i can think of that is pro-family, and pro-child. ok, maybe the school lunch program. barely.
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scgal
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Post by scgal on Dec 20, 2022 14:13:12 GMT -5
i might mention that this was a cheap program. so it is not COST that keeps us from doing this. From what I just read the money is already there and the govt changed rules to make it easier for the states to get? Is that correct.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 20, 2022 14:21:03 GMT -5
i might mention that this was a cheap program. so it is not COST that keeps us from doing this. From what I just read the money is already there and the govt changed rules to make it easier for the states to get? Is that correct. i believe the program was expanded under COVID. i can look into it a bit later, but i am doing a bill run right now.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Dec 20, 2022 19:26:35 GMT -5
What, exactly, do you mean by that? Im not a big fan of Canada high taxes. Everyone talks about the wonderful healthcare system. While travelling in Canada I talked to several people and asked them to be honest about the healthcare everyone admitted to mostly long wait times and lack of pharmaceuticals. That coupled with I had a friend to moved to Canada years ago because he said it was more homosexual friendly than the US. He and his partner who was both hiv positive could not get the medicine they needed they used to travel back to Florida to get it. The taxes don't just cover healthcare. They also cover subsidized tertiary education, affordable daycare, subsidized elder care in nursing homes, and many other social programs. Add it all up, and Americans end up paying MORE than we do. Lack of pharmaceuticals? We negotiate for X amount of pharmaceuticals. Then Americans come here for cheaper drugs and we run out. Which medicine did your gay friends need? In any case, yes, we wait for elective procedures, but it also depends on where you live. I waited 8 days for an MRI, 4 days to see an orthopaedic surgeon, and yes, I waited a month for my transforaminal injections in my spine, but it wasn't urgent. Covid chaged eerything with nurses quitting or being burned out, but usually, it all works. I remember Shasta going through hell because of doctors not wanting to accept Medicaid patients, exceedingly long wait times when her son ewas having seizures or needing to go three states away to see a neurosurgeon. That was in the US.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Dec 20, 2022 19:45:29 GMT -5
My SIL, Holly, who lived in Costa Mesa, got a job working for an insurance company. The job was to dig into a person's past, to find any reason to deny, deny, deny insurance coverage for people with expensive medical conditions, just when they needed it most. These people had been paying for insurance for decades, but when they needed open heart surgery or cancer treatments...'No insurance for you!" She didn't last long, because she's a nice person, and she'd have to pull over to the side of the road to puke on her way to work.
If you think that's better, you're welcome to it. I just feel bad for all my friends and family who live in the US.
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grumpyhermit
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Post by grumpyhermit on Dec 20, 2022 20:32:48 GMT -5
i really just think it is weird. most countries are obsessively concerned with their kids. the US TALKS like it is, too. but it doesn't ACT like it. there is literally ZERO public policy that i can think of that is pro-family, and pro-child. ok, maybe the school lunch program. barely. The same US that refuses to even think about changing gun laws as year after year children are murdered in schools? Yeah, color me not surprised that they don't care these same kids are going hungry. I don't think this country has been pro-family or pro-child for as long as I've been alive. It is an individualistic, predatory capitalistic hellscape. There is little to no sense of collective goodwill or sense of shared responsibility. It's tiresome, and I don't think it's fixable, since large swaths are so fucking concerned with having to maybe contribute a bit more than someone else that can't afford it. Why would the powers that be be interested in helping the poor? If you don't keep them strapped over a barrel and on the verge of economic ruin, it's a lot harder to pay them shitty wages, with no benefits, and bleed them for every ounce of production you can squeeze out of them. Look what happened during Covid when people got paltry stipends - "Well we have to claw those back, the lazy poors don't want to work" No, they don't want to work shitty jobs, for shitty pay, with few benefits and no respect. SHOCKER. So yeah, not really surprised there is no collective will to fix it. From either party.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 21, 2022 5:17:35 GMT -5
Im not a big fan of Canada high taxes. Everyone talks about the wonderful healthcare system. While travelling in Canada I talked to several people and asked them to be honest about the healthcare everyone admitted to mostly long wait times and lack of pharmaceuticals. That coupled with I had a friend to moved to Canada years ago because he said it was more homosexual friendly than the US. He and his partner who was both hiv positive could not get the medicine they needed they used to travel back to Florida to get it. The taxes don't just cover healthcare. They also cover subsidized tertiary education, affordable daycare, subsidized elder care in nursing homes, and many other social programs. Add it all up, and Americans end up paying MORE than we do. this is something that Americans never hear, though. they just get this steady drumbeat of TAXES rather than COSTS INCLUDING TAXES. Healthcare premiums cost MORE THAN TAXES*, yet people complain about taxes rather than healthcare premiums. again, i don't get this about Americans. at all. *https://ldi.upenn.edu/wp-content/uploads/archive/Penn%20LDI%20and%20US%20of%20Care%20Cost%20Burden%20Summary_Final.pdf
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tbop77
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Post by tbop77 on Dec 21, 2022 8:02:51 GMT -5
The taxes don't just cover healthcare. They also cover subsidized tertiary education, affordable daycare, subsidized elder care in nursing homes, and many other social programs. Add it all up, and Americans end up paying MORE than we do. this is something that Americans never hear, though. they just get this steady drumbeat of TAXES rather than COSTS INCLUDING TAXES. Healthcare premiums cost MORE THAN TAXES*, yet people complain about taxes rather than healthcare premiums. again, i don't get this about Americans. at all.
*https://ldi.upenn.edu/wp-content/uploads/archive/Penn%20LDI%20and%20US%20of%20Care%20Cost%20Burden%20Summary_Final.pdf Even when you break it down in terms they should understand. For instance, where I worked, premiums for an employee/spouse were around $20K per year. That is part of your compensation package. If you make $40K per year, you are paying 30% for health insurance. But as long as it is not called a tax, right?
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resolution
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Post by resolution on Dec 21, 2022 8:33:29 GMT -5
They are getting bombarded with media that make social programs out to be the bad guys, and imply poor people are living better than them without working. Example: There was an article yesterday in Fox Business claiming that unemployment insurance and obamacare subsidies can equate to a 100k salary! I even clicked over to the study to see where their numbers were coming from, and there was no explanation of why they were valuing a healthcare subsidy at around 80k in income. The whole tone of the article was "no one is working because obamacare subsidies are so high" but no question of why health insurance would be so expensive. I don't know anyone paying nearly that amount, even including employer subsidies. The conclusions of the study is that we should cut obamacare subsidies so more people go back to work. www.foxbusiness.com/politics/unemployment-benefits-obamacare-subsidies-outpace-median-income-several-states-study-finds
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 21, 2022 8:34:10 GMT -5
this is something that Americans never hear, though. they just get this steady drumbeat of TAXES rather than COSTS INCLUDING TAXES. Healthcare premiums cost MORE THAN TAXES*, yet people complain about taxes rather than healthcare premiums. again, i don't get this about Americans. at all.
*https://ldi.upenn.edu/wp-content/uploads/archive/Penn%20LDI%20and%20US%20of%20Care%20Cost%20Burden%20Summary_Final.pdf Even when you break it down in terms they should understand. For instance, where I worked, premiums for an employee/spouse were around $20K per year. That is part of your compensation package. If you make $40K per year, you are paying 30% for health insurance. But as long as it is not called a tax, right? the average for a family of four is $17k/year. as i already said, that is MORE than an average family of four pays in taxes. yet nobody complains about it.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 21, 2022 8:35:12 GMT -5
They are getting bombarded with media that make social programs out to be the bad guys, and imply poor people are living better than them without working. Example: There was an article yesterday in Fox Business claiming that unemployment insurance and obamacare subsidies can equate to a 100k salary! I even clicked over to the study to see where their numbers were coming from, and there was no explanation of why they were valuing a healthcare subsidy at around 80k in income. The whole tone of the article was "no one is working because obamacare subsidies are so high" but no question of why health insurance would be so expensive. I don't know anyone paying nearly that amount, even including employer subsidies. The conclusions of the study is that we should cut obamacare subsidies so more people go back to work. www.foxbusiness.com/politics/unemployment-benefits-obamacare-subsidies-outpace-median-income-several-states-study-findssure, social programs are the bad guys, but paying 28% of your income to health insurance is ....... Making America Great Again? i mean really? what the fuck?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 21, 2022 8:37:16 GMT -5
ok. i get it now. it is a form of slavery. in order to get health insurance, you have to work, even though healthcare is identified as a human right under UDHR. got it. what's next? do i have to work to breathe?
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grumpyhermit
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Post by grumpyhermit on Dec 21, 2022 8:40:08 GMT -5
No one ever said Americans were smart...
The adoration of the rich has really done a job on this country's psyche.
It SHOULD be a no brainer that instead of paying billions to for profit insurance companies we should be pooling those funds to figure out a sustainable national healthcare solution. But no.
Until you get the vast sums of money out of politics (never gonna happen) we are going to keep retreading these paths.
You mean the solution to raising children out of poverty is to...fund and support their care? Mind. Blown.
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resolution
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Post by resolution on Dec 21, 2022 8:49:09 GMT -5
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grumpyhermit
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Post by grumpyhermit on Dec 21, 2022 8:51:53 GMT -5
Are there still people that honestly think the GOP/Conservatives as a group ACTUALLY care about the unborn? Has that charade not been put to rest yet? They have shown their hands again and again and again.
I'm sure there are individual members that due, but as a block...not buying it, and I can't see how anyone else does either.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 21, 2022 9:36:49 GMT -5
res- that is a fantastic post. thanks for putting that up there. perfect for this thread, too.
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