Possibly getting divorced - financial scenarios

[engineerdoe]

Nov 29, 2022 16:41:22 GMT -5 Firebird said:

Would you guys be open to have babybird live in the house and if you do a week on/week off for the 50/50 parenting and have a separate apartment that the off parent goes to for the week? So you are sharing the house and an apartment? (if the living in one house doesn't work)


There's a term for that, actually!  It's called "nesting" and yes, that's also an option I forgot to include in the list.  I'm open to it, but DH doesn't want to live with roommates, which kinda limits our options.  If we're going to do this, I'd not like to spend more than $800 or so on our "non-house" option, which around here pretty much means roommates. 

I wouldn't want roommates either and they may not be up to a revolving roommate.  Never knew it was called "nesting"!

[giramomma]

Does your state recognize legal separation?

That's the plan, if it comes to it, for us.

We legally separate,  DH finds an apartment to rent on his dime, and he still has full access to the kids, he can at the food in the house, etc. I just want him out of my house at night. He also can stay working part time.

Plus, in divorce, DH wouldn't have access to health insurance. Legally separated, he can still be on my health insurance. That's a pretty important thing.

We then also don't have to worry about what splitting up assets looks like until the kids are gone and I'm closer to retirement. 

This also incentivizes my husband to spend time with the kids, instead of deciding it's better to start dating and find a new wife.  I'm not really keen on having my kids experience  being part of a blended family. (Yes, I know there are examples where it is wonderful and there's no problems. I'm just not counting on that.)

I also not counting on a separation going smoothly, either.

I would be uncomfortable about the house on your salary long term. That left over could easily be eaten up with braces and a few activities, and a few specialty summer camps.  I'm also pretty risk adverse.

[Firebird]

Aw, gira, I'm so sorry to hear your marriage is rocky too.

I imagine we're going to end up staying legally married for at least the next year regardless of our true relationship status, for similar reasons.

[laterbloomer]

Why would you spend less on the apartment if you were doing the nesting than if it was just him renting?

[Firebird]

Nov 29, 2022 19:36:31 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Why would you spend less on the apartment if you were doing the nesting than if it was just him renting?

Cause in that case, it would just need to be space enough for one of us to stay - no need for an extra bedroom for Babybird and so forth. To me, a rented room in someone's house would work fine for that purpose.

It's a bit different if we are talking about him setting up a separate living space which Babybird would be sharing with him part of the time. A 2br apartment makes more sense then.

[giramomma]

Nov 29, 2022 19:15:49 GMT -5 Firebird said:

Aw, gira, I'm so sorry to hear your marriage is rocky too.

I imagine we're going to end up staying legally married for at least the next year regardless of our true relationship status, for similar reasons.

Actually, he's been sober for 5 years now. This spring it's 6. He even stayed sober through my breast cancer ordeal.

I do think *this* time it's the real deal. But, you know. No guarantees for tomorrow.

I love DH. He has absolutely used up any good will. We've done fool me once, and fool me twice.  DH knows there's no third time.

You can always PM me if you need to chat, vent, whatever.

[laterbloomer]

Nov 29, 2022 19:42:38 GMT -5 Firebird said:

Nov 29, 2022 19:36:31 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Why would you spend less on the apartment if you were doing the nesting than if it was just him renting?

Cause in that case, it would just need to be space enough for one of us to stay - no need for an extra bedroom for Babybird and so forth. To me, a rented room in someone's house would work fine for that purpose.

It's a bit different if we are talking about him setting up a separate living space which Babybird would be sharing with him part of the time. A 2br apartment makes more sense then.

I think that would be terrible. The apartment should be your other home, not some place to camp every other week. And you should each have your own bedroom. A place you can keep the things that will make you comfortable there. And if he starts dating do you want to sleep in the same bed as him and the new woman? If you do the nesting thing you should each have your own bedroom in the main house too.

[Pink Cashmere]

Nov 29, 2022 11:49:24 GMT -5 Firebird said:

Hi everyone!  I know I've been absent for a long time, and I wish I were coming back to the boards with better news.  DH and I are separated at the moment and it *may* become permanent.  That's definitely not an absolute certainty right now, but I'm trying to take a good look at our finances and see what kind of position we'd be in if we split up. 

We're in decent shape financially, but our biggest worry is making sure we can both stay in our rather expensive area (doesn't have to be this specific town, the next one over is much cheaper), mostly for Babybird's sake.  She's 10 now, and has lived here almost her whole life - she has good friends, great schools, grandparents close by, etc.  Uprooting her at this point would suck, and DH and I are united in our wish to stay in close physical proximity so we can easily coparent her.  50/50 custody is a given.

(FYI - despite being separated, we're on very good terms and talk frequently.  If we do split up, it will be very civil.  We still love each other like crazy and obviously we love our daughter, so we're still going to be a family no matter what happens between us.  We're in agreement that this will become our new goal, if we can't make our marriage work.) 

Even though it's against the traditional advice, I think it makes the most sense for me to keep the house and have DH find an apartment.  Selling is an option, but not right away because we need to replace a couple of things before anyone would buy OR rent it, and we can't afford them right now.  It would probably take me about 6 months to save up/cashflow the necessary work.  Which is fine, because I don't really WANT to sell the house right now.  If we get back together, that's where I want to live - and if we split up, it's pretty much still where I want to live (if possible).

The numbers: 

Mortgage: $1,850 (3.25%, ~$295k left - the house should be good for at least $500k, although we haven't done the official appraisal yet.  According to a real estate agent friend of ours, DH and I would probably net $65k or so apiece if we did sell.) 
Car loan: $330 (0%, ~$11.5k left - this is my bill, since it's my car) 

Retirement accounts:  Roughly $166k, which we'll most likely be splitting right down the middle according to the mediator (we've been married for 11 years and most of that money was accumulated together - I think my ROTH is the only account that predates the marriage)     

Liquid savings:  Roughly $10k 

Utilities:  Average of $750/month (this includes cell phones)
Insurance: $388/month

My income:  $92,000 (take home just shy of $5k/month)
DH income:  $61,000 (take home about $3300/month)

I'm not doing a super detailed budget right now but by my calculations, taking on the mortgage/basic expenses would run me roughly $3300, which feels fairly comfortable for my income.  It should be no problem to add in a child support payment of $600 or so, which is a lot more than the mediator estimated but I'm trying to be conservative here (plus, I'm very willing to pay more than will be legally required of me, if that's the only way DH can stay in this area). 

Unfortunately, rental prices are super high around here - but I still think DH can afford it.  If he's able to rent a place for $1700 or so, which I think is doable, then his basic expenses should come to $2500 or thereabouts.  I'm being really approximate, but obviously the utilities on an apartment would be a lot less than for our house.  I know $2500 is 75% of his take-home, which isn't great, but factor in child support from me and I think it can be done. 

Important caveat, though - this arrangement will only work if DH agrees to let me stay in the house for a while without buying him out (the mediator mentioned that this was an option, if we both agree).  I've run the basic numbers with a lender friend and I don't think I can afford to do that with interest rates as high as they are right now.  I'm totally willing to refinance at a later time, but it would probably be at least a year away.  If DH doesn't want to agree to that, I think we'll probably have to sell the house.  

Other options we've discussed:  selling the house and buying a duplex so we can live right next door to each other (or rent out the next door unit if we do reconcile), buying another house outright (probably not possible, we don't have enough cash for a DP and even the "cheap" houses around here are in the $260-300k range), renting the house for a year or so and getting our own rentals (personally, I'm partial to this option - but DH isn't, and I admit it would be a lot of moving for Babybird). 

By the way, I'm staying with my parents at the moment (they live about a mile from our house, so the back and forth with Babybird has been easy).  Obviously, that won't last forever but I'm very fortunate to have it as a temporary option.  

Thoughts from the board?  Other options we should consider?  Anything big I'm overlooking? 

I had to go fix another adult beverage when I saw the title for this thread and halfway read the OP. I was happy to “see” you, not so much about the circumstances.

So, I am NOT a financial guru like so many of the posters here are, and I haven’t even read past the OP yet (I did go back and actually read it lol), BUT, one thing I am almost certain of is that if you want the house, and you end up divorcing, it is a mistake for you to stay with your parents right now. I am almost certain that a good lawyer would’ve told you not to do that.

I know you and your DH are just separated right now, and amicable, and it seems the door might be open for reconciliation if y’all can figure things out IRT what prompted the separation, but as many times as I’ve seen and heard that, when it comes to actually getting a divorce, things change sometimes, feelings get involved in a negative way, and it’s not so amicable anymore. I hope that doesn’t happen with you, I just want you to realize it really is a possibility. 

So if you were my daughter or my close friend, I would tell you to be very careful about how you move right now. And if whatever the problems are don’t include any form of abuse, I would advise you to sit tight, in the home. Because if you do divorce and things go left, you having moved out can be considered abandonment or some other kind of legal mumbo jumbo, that can hem you up in divorce proceedings. 

I will go back and finish reading the thread now lol.

[chiver78]

Nov 29, 2022 19:12:58 GMT -5 giramomma said:

Does your state recognize legal separation?

That's the plan, if it comes to it, for us.

We legally separate,  DH finds an apartment to rent on his dime, and he still has full access to the kids, he can at the food in the house, etc. I just want him out of my house at night. He also can stay working part time.

Plus, in divorce, DH wouldn't have access to health insurance. Legally separated, he can still be on my health insurance. That's a pretty important thing.

We then also don't have to worry about what splitting up assets looks like until the kids are gone and I'm closer to retirement. 

This also incentivizes my husband to spend time with the kids, instead of deciding it's better to start dating and find a new wife.  I'm not really keen on having my kids experience  being part of a blended family. (Yes, I know there are examples where it is wonderful and there's no problems. I'm just not counting on that.)

I also not counting on a separation going smoothly, either.

I would be uncomfortable about the house on your salary long term. That left over could easily be eaten up with braces and a few activities, and a few specialty summer camps.  I'm also pretty risk adverse.

I hate that you know this, at the ready. 

[Firebird]

I wouldn't want roommates either and they may not be up to a revolving roommate. Never knew it was called "nesting"!


Naturally, that's something we'd have to work out with the landlord/housemates/whatever.  But personally, I'm fine with the idea.  I'd rather me and DH do the constant back-and-forth than Babybird, and as long as I have my own private space to retreat to 3 days a week, I'm good.  

Actually, he's been sober for 5 years now. This spring it's 6. He even stayed sober through my breast cancer ordeal.

That's great!  I'm so sorry to hear you've been dealing with that.  Glad your DH has stepped up.  I hope that remains the case - sending lots of love your way

I think that would be terrible. The apartment should be your other home, not some place to camp every other week. And you should each have your own bedroom. A place you can keep the things that will make you comfortable there. And if he starts dating do you want to sleep in the same bed as him and the new woman? If you do the nesting thing you should each have your own bedroom in the main house too.

I wouldn't care if DH brought dates home to our shared space, but I realize I'm a little unusual in that way.  And I'm not thinking this would be an arrangement for years on end - probably a year, tops, before we did make more permanent arrangements.  I'd be fine "camping" in our nesting space every other week (or whatever) for a year.  

I'm sure we'd both sleep in the master when it was our turn to stay in the main house. 

I had to go fix another adult beverage when I saw the title for this thread and halfway read the OP. I was happy to “see” you, not so much about the circumstances.

Aww, Pink, I missed you! 

So if you were my daughter or my close friend, I would tell you to be very careful about how you move right now. And if whatever the problems are don’t include any form of abuse, I would advise you to sit tight, in the home. Because if you do divorce and things go left, you having moved out can be considered abandonment or some other kind of legal mumbo jumbo, that can hem you up in divorce proceedings.


This has definitely been pointed out to me, several times.  And it's a legit point - in general, being the one to move out puts you in a weaker position when it comes to divorce - if there's fighting.  The mediator said that it's not an issue for us to live separately in whatever way works for us without doing any kind of legal separation, as long as things stay civil.

Also, I go over to the house every day and I've even been sleeping over there once a week.  If it really came down to it, I think a case could be made that I'm just "visiting" my parents (a lot, lol).  But basically, I trust DH.  He's not going to screw me over (also, he knows there's no way he could stay in the house on his income alone, let alone buy me out - it's dicey enough on mine). 

I agree it's a risk (and this is part of why I'd prefer some kind of nesting arrangement instead), but a negligible one under the circumstances.  There's so many other things that worry me more than this one. 

[raeoflyte]

The duplex arrangement is my "plan" if dh and I hit that point. We own a triplex and the basement unit could be rented or used as communal space as long as money wasn't tight. We could still see the kids everyday, be involved in day to day decisions. Future dating is where it would be difficult since we also wouldn't want to introduce the kids to anyone.

Good luck! Lots of love coming your way.

[haapai]

Nov 29, 2022 11:49:24 GMT -5 Firebird said:

I'm not doing a super detailed budget right now but by my calculations, taking on the mortgage/basic expenses would run me roughly $3300, which feels fairly comfortable for my income.  It should be no problem to add in a child support payment of $600 or so, which is a lot more than the mediator estimated but I'm trying to be conservative here (plus, I'm very willing to pay more than will be legally required of me, if that's the only way DH can stay in this area). 

Important caveat, though - this arrangement will only work if DH agrees to let me stay in the house for a while without buying him out (the mediator mentioned that this was an option, if we both agree).  I've run the basic numbers with a lender friend and I don't think I can afford to do that with interest rates as high as they are right now.  I'm totally willing to refinance at a later time, but it would probably be at least a year away.  If DH doesn't want to agree to that, I think we'll probably have to sell the house.  

Thoughts from the board?  Other options we should consider?  Anything big I'm overlooking? 

I fear that your are being a bit blithe about refinancing.  There's more than interest rates involved.  The size of the new mortgage and the value of the house when you get that mortgage matter too. 

You'll have to buy out your husband and he may want more than the $65K that you estimate that you'd each get by selling.  He may want a share of the selling costs that you are avoiding.  So you're looking at getting at least a $360K mortgage with a gross income of $92K-$110K.  Are you sure that you can even qualify for that amount?  Have you considered how the child support obligation will be considered by a lender when you apply? 

The other big scary thing is the value of the house and how accurate and current the $500K valuation is.  If real estate softens with high interest rates, you could easily find yourself trying to finance more than 80%. 

I'm sorry to be so blunt but I think that you should get super-detailed about your finances and the prospective finances of both yourself and your husband.  You don't have to share the results with us.  You should do it for yourself. 

 

[giramomma]

Nov 30, 2022 11:01:24 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

The duplex arrangement is my "plan" if dh and I hit that point. We own a triplex and the basement unit could be rented or used as communal space as long as money wasn't tight. We could still see the kids everyday, be involved in day to day decisions. Future dating is where it would be difficult since we also wouldn't want to introduce the kids to anyone.

Good luck! Lots of love coming your way.

When DH and I just had the two kids, my plan was to buy another condo unit on the premise. With my income, now, and and only two kids, we'd be looking at having both condos paid off at this point. Divorce back then would have been much more financially palatable.

[giramomma]

FWIW, I also think abandonment varies from state to state. In my state, it can make a difference. Google tells me in another state, it's not a thing if certain conditions are met.

[minnesotapaintlady]

I don't know.  I find having my ex's NOT close by much nicer.     Living with them or even next door in a duplex would have been rough.  Different reasons for each ex.

[debthaven]

Firebird I am very sorry to read this. 

I think Pink Cashmere raised a great point. Here too, you would be at fault for having abandoned the marital home. 

The niece you raised for 5 years, who just moved out, and who isn't talking to either of you now ... I'm sure all that was very traumatic.

So I can't help but wonder ... might the separation be due to or exacerbated by the situation with your niece? If that's the case, is it wise for you and your DH to make any decisions right now? 

All the best to you. 

[Deleted]

Nov 30, 2022 17:10:42 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

I don't know.  I find having my ex's NOT close by much nicer.     Living with them or even next door in a duplex would have been rough.  Different reasons for each ex.

I agree.  I can't imagine a "nesting" setup where my Ex can see my financial records, what's in my medicine cabinet, anything left behind by "gentleman callers", etc.  I'm glad it works for some people because I'm sure it's less disruption for the kids, but I couldn't do it.

[Firebird]

I'm sorry to be so blunt but I think that you should get super-detailed about your finances and the prospective finances of both yourself and your husband. You don't have to share the results with us. You should do it for yourself.


I agree - I definitely do not think there's any way I can stay in the house with my current income unless DH agrees to let me delay refinancing for at least a year (with selling as a Plan B at that point if I still can't afford it). 

I don't know. I find having my ex's NOT close by much nicer. Living with them or even next door in a duplex would have been rough. Different reasons for each ex.


I totally understand how most people wouldn't enjoy having their ex close by.  In our situation, it would be fine and much preferred.  We want to continue being a family for Babybird - that's top priority for both of us.  Obviously, the easiest way to do that is to live in close proximity. 

The niece you raised for 5 years, who just moved out, and who isn't talking to either of you now ... I'm sure all that was very traumatic.  So I can't help but wonder ... might the separation be due to or exacerbated by the situation with your niece? If that's the case, is it wise for you and your DH to make any decisions right now?


Oh, it's been noted!  You are correct, it's been incredibly traumatic, and continues to be (for me, at least - DH and I have reacted pretty differently to the most recent situation).  I don't doubt that a lot of my emotional state right now has to do with DN and everything that's gone down with her in the past few years. 

That being said, it's also true that dealing with DN's drama day in and day out for years allowed us to avoid dealing with our issues.  When she left, it became very clear very quickly that we'd been shoving a whole crapton of stuff under the rug just to get through the days.  We were in crisis mode and everything in our lives came second to DN - our marriage, Babybird, our jobs, everything.  So in some ways, it's not surprising that we're dealing with this stuff now.  We've had no capacity to do so anytime in the recent past. 

However, I agree that we shouldn't make any major decisions for at least a few months to let everything settle.  DH has agreed to (at a minimum) postpone filing until the new year. 

 I agree. I can't imagine a "nesting" setup where my Ex can see my financial records, what's in my medicine cabinet, anything left behind by "gentleman callers", etc. I'm glad it works for some people because I'm sure it's less disruption for the kids, but I couldn't do it.

Every couple is different, and every situation is unique.  I can fully appreciate a lot of folks not wanting to share space with their ex.  I don't mind being around DH, nor the reverse.  We've spent a LOT of time together since the separation, ironically.  

[laterbloomer]

I'm having a hard time understanding a situation where you love each other dearly. have no problem sharing space and doing the nesting thing, you are both going to do everything you can to keep babybird in place...but you can't stay married because something is so deal breaker wrong that it can't be resolved. Oh, and you can do the nesting thing but you can't live in the same house right now.

For your sake I hope you have a realistic idea of your situation and how amicable it really is or will stay.

[Firebird]

I'm having a hard time understanding a situation where you love each other dearly. have no problem sharing space and doing the nesting thing, you are both going to do everything you can to keep babybird in place...but you can't stay married because something is so deal breaker wrong that it can't be resolved. Oh, and you can do the nesting thing but you can't live in the same house right now.


I totally get why it sounds confusing to people.  As I said yesterday, the easiest way to explain our biggest problem (without going into the specifics, which I'm not going to do here) is to compare it to the kids-versus-no-kids debate.  There's no compromise position on the subject of children - you either have them or you don't.  If your partner wants them and you don't, or vice versa, that can easily be a dealbreaker even for the strongest and most loving of couples.  It doesn't mean anyone's a bad person or that you don't love them anymore, it just means you want different things in life and you're not the partner the other person needs. 

It's not a fun place to be, but that's where we are.  Counseling is helping us determine whether our issue is truly a dealbreaker or not.  We're going again today, and I personally feel a lot clearer in my head about where I stand so I'm hoping we'll make some good progress.  

I, too, hope I'm being realistic about how amicable it can stay - but I'm optimistic.  We've been separated since Halloween and the last month has been filled with many brutally painful, honest conversations.  We've had plenty of chances to get ugly so far, and there will no doubt be plenty more - but so far, we've managed to keep our love for each other and Babybird at the forefront and let that drive our actions, rather than the pain we're feeling. 

[Deleted]

Nov 30, 2022 22:54:46 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

I'm having a hard time understanding a situation where you love each other dearly <snip>

It happens.  One friend DID break up with his first wife over the kids/no kids issue.  Another married his college sweetheart, they had 3 kids and divorced when the kids were in grade school.  I met her and liked her- don't know what broke them up- but he's happily remarried to a woman who also had kids and, if you can believe the FB posts, the family has "blended" well.   I know many people keep the bad details of their lives off FB (I do) so there were most likely difficulties, but they look happy and he seems to have a good co-parenting relationship with his Ex.

[minnesotapaintlady]

Dec 1, 2022 8:11:11 GMT -5 @athena53 said:

Nov 30, 2022 22:54:46 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

I'm having a hard time understanding a situation where you love each other dearly <snip>

It happens.  One friend DID break up with his first wife over the kids/no kids issue.  Another married his college sweetheart, they had 3 kids and divorced when the kids were in grade school.  I met her and liked her- don't know what broke them up- but he's happily remarried to a woman who also had kids and, if you can believe the FB posts, the family has "blended" well.   I know many people keep the bad details of their lives off FB (I do) so there were most likely difficulties, but they look happy and he seems to have a good co-parenting relationship with his Ex.

My first Ex and I still love each other dearly, but more like brother and sister.  He's remarried and his kids from his new marriage and my son from a subsequent marriage are like cousins.  I go to family things at their house all the time and if I called him up today and asked him to help me with something with the house he would come right out and not even charge me if he bought stuff to fix what he needed to.  I don't do that much anymore though because he's so super busy and he just wouldn't say no.

[Annie7]

Firebird,

I'm sorry to hear about your situation. I got divorced 2 years ago. My situation was different from yours - kids were >18, no love between us, etc. 

I do feel that you might be minimizing how acrimonious it can get. As someone mentioned, divorce brings up strong negative feelings and it's human to act on them. I too thought ex wouldn't bring kids into the issues but he did for a silly thing after the divorce. It was for a $20 thing that he could buy at home depot and he tried to sneakily get my YDS to get it for him from my house. YDS didn't know the background for that since I don't bring him into any issues between ex and I. So YDS got it for him. I had a sneaking suspicion that had happened and I asked YDS and he said yes, he gave it to his dad. I had to tell him that I had told ex that he had no rights on anything in the house anymore. I confronted ex and he brought it back. But he lost YDS's respect because of this. So, it happens. Please protect yourself.

Legally, I would get a good lawyer and know your rights. Mine was via mediation/collaboration but still we both had lawyers. 

Goodluck whatever you decide for the future.

[raeoflyte]

Nov 30, 2022 22:54:46 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

I'm having a hard time understanding a situation where you love each other dearly. have no problem sharing space and doing the nesting thing, you are both going to do everything you can to keep babybird in place...but you can't stay married because something is so deal breaker wrong that it can't be resolved. Oh, and you can do the nesting thing but you can't live in the same house right now.

For your sake I hope you have a realistic idea of your situation and how amicable it really is or will stay.

I don't want to throw out scenarios to add drama or accidentally guess but I've seen this play out a lot in our peer group. People who maintain a love and friendship after the relationship ends - even when kids aren't involved and a clean break is possible.

With how much people grow and change decade to decade its amazing as many stay together as they do imo.

Eta - none of the first part is to say the actual end of the relationship was easy. Go into each situation prepared and communicating for the worse.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Nov 30, 2022 22:54:46 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

I'm having a hard time understanding a situation where you love each other dearly. have no problem sharing space and doing the nesting thing, you are both going to do everything you can to keep babybird in place...but you can't stay married because something is so deal breaker wrong that it can't be resolved. Oh, and you can do the nesting thing but you can't live in the same house right now.

For your sake I hope you have a realistic idea of your situation and how amicable it really is or will stay.

DH has drug issues. Should they ever rise to the level they did previously that's a major deal breaker and I will do what I need to to protect my interests and the girls.

But I still love DH dearly and if he were to get back on his feet would be willing to work with him regarding the kids and possible nesting.

But I'd never entangle myself legally again.

[haapai]

Nov 29, 2022 11:49:24 GMT -5 Firebird said:

Mortgage: $1,850 (3.25%, ~$295k left - the house should be good for at least $500k, although we haven't done the official appraisal yet.  According to a real estate agent friend of ours, DH and I would probably net $65k or so apiece if we did sell.) 

I'm confused by these numbers.  If the house is worth $500k and the mortgage balance is $295k, you have equity of about $205k.  $65k for each of you accounts for $130k.  The difference between $205k and $130k is $75k or 15% of the value of the house. 

I've never heard of selling costs as high as 15%.  Is it possible that your real estate agent friend is assuming that the value of the house is less than $500k?  Do the "fixes" that you mention add up to $25k or so that you would either have to do yourself or offer an allowance for? 

[Firebird]

Legally, I would get a good lawyer and know your rights. Mine was via mediation/collaboration but still we both had lawyers.

As luck (?) would have it, we know two other couples who recently split up and they both warned me emphatically that involving lawyers is way expensive and has a tendency to make things more acrimonious, if it's not starting out that way.  In other words, unless it's absolutely unavoidable, they strongly advised me/us to go the mediation route. 

With how much people grow and change decade to decade its amazing as many stay together as they do imo.


Word!  I'm starting to think that people who wait to get married until their 30s/40s are the smart ones (not that I regret marrying DH when I did, but it's very clear to me that a lot of people just have no f'ing clue who they really are as twenty-somethings, and it's no wonder a bunch of marriages don't survive the process of figuring that out).  

I'm always encouraged to hear about other friendly splits - I know they're not the norm, but I definitely believe they can be done if both people want it enough.  I think we tend not to hear about the "good" splits, because the bad ones are so much juicier, so that could be one reason for the skepticism.  I appreciate all perspectives, but I think I know us and our situation well enough to make a considered judgment on the situation.

If things change, I'll certainly adjust - but I'm not going to start treating DH as though I expect him to suddenly become a hateful, vindictive monster when I've had zero evidence so far that's the case.  I sure wouldn't want him assuming I'd do that to him.  No matter what happens, I will always love him and I would never do anything to jeopardize his future needlessly. 

I've never heard of selling costs as high as 15%. Is it possible that your real estate agent friend is assuming that the value of the house is less than $500k? Do the "fixes" that you mention add up to $25k or so that you would either have to do yourself or offer an allowance for?


I think she was being conservative, which is fine.  IIRC, she mentioned listing the house at a little less than $500k so as to encourage better offers.  The real estate market where we live is a little bit insane, but she seemed confident that we could get at least $500k, and that should leave both of us with a good chunk of change with which to start over (although I doubt either of us could afford another house right out of the gate - maybe a small one). 

The stuff we need to fix/replace before selling shouldn't cost anywhere near $25k.  Maybe $5-10k, at most.  If DH can give me 6-12 months, I can cashflow that just fine.

[haapai]

Dec 1, 2022 10:37:40 GMT -5 Firebird said:

I've never heard of selling costs as high as 15%. Is it possible that your real estate agent friend is assuming that the value of the house is less than $500k? Do the "fixes" that you mention add up to $25k or so that you would either have to do yourself or offer an allowance for?


I think she was being conservative, which is fine.  IIRC, she mentioned listing the house at a little less than $500k so as to encourage better offers.  The real estate market where we live is a little bit insane, but she seemed confident that we could get at least $500k, and that should leave both of us with a good chunk of change with which to start over (although I doubt either of us could afford another house right out of the gate - maybe a small one). 

The stuff we need to fix/replace before selling shouldn't cost anywhere near $25k.  Maybe $5-10k, at most.  If DH can give me 6-12 months, I can cashflow that just fine.

Oh good!  That's a very satisfying answer to hear.  It pretty much zotzes my fears of a high LTV being an obstacle to you qualifying for a mortgage. 

But there's still the question of having the income to qualify. 

Have you considered the possibility of splitting your retirement assets unequally, essentially buying out your husband's share of the house value with retirement assets instead of cash?  I know from the numbers that you have mentioned that there isn't a lot to work with and that you would have to come to an agreement on how to appropriately discount the 401(k) assets but it is something to think about. 

It's also something that your lender friend may have in mind as a possibility, so you should probably be upfront with that friend regarding how little there is to work with. 

I'm pretty much throwing out ideas that will help you zoom in on the loan amount that you would need.  Once that amount solids up, you can concentrate on what kind of interest rate you would need in order to qualify. 

And on the real monster in the room -- whether you could afford that mortgage. 

[finnime]

With what you've added, Firebird, the picture is much more clear.

Here's a thought: maybe your husband would be willing to wait for you to refinance the house and buy him out for another 3, 4, or even 5 years if you split the equity at sale time with him. That way he benefits from the property increase in value, which is a rather safe investment for him if he thinks of it that way. My oldest DB did this with his X, and it worked out well. He got half the equity when she sold it after their middle child reached 18.

Best wishes to you.

[Deleted]

Dec 1, 2022 12:34:14 GMT -5 finnime said:

With what you've added, Firebird , the picture is much more clear.

Here's a thought: maybe your husband would be willing to wait for you to refinance the house and buy him out for another 3, 4, or even 5 years if you split the equity at sale time with him. That way he benefits from the property increase in value, which is a rather safe investment for him if he thinks of it that way. My oldest DB did this with his X, and it worked out well. He got half the equity when she sold it after their middle child reached 18.

Best wishes to you.

My DH did that as well.  The most important factor is having a deadline.  I know of two guys who had the indefinite timeline.  One was many years ago- his STBX had a BF who was going to divorce his wife as soon as she divorced my friend.  Somehow it was never the right time for him to file for divorce.  By the time she did sell it was well after their only son was out of the house.  The guy I'm dating now has a similar agreement with no deadline.  He's a lawyer so he understood the consequences.  His Ex seems to be maintaining it well on her own and he's OK with the deal.