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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2020 21:15:29 GMT -5
I can see both sides of the child support after 18/high school. If parents are still married, they aren't compelled to continue to support their kid, though many(most?) choose to. I think it depends on where you live. Around here paying for college is not the norm. Giving them a place to live for free and helping out with some expenses for a while...maybe even a long while...yes, but footing the bill for going away college? No.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Jun 15, 2020 21:24:33 GMT -5
I can see both sides of the child support after 18/high school. If parents are still married, they aren't compelled to continue to support their kid, though many(most?) choose to. I think it depends on where you live. Around here paying for college is not the norm. Giving them a place to live for free and helping out with some expenses for a while...maybe even a long while...yes, but footing the bill for going away college? No. Oh, I didn't mean college. Just the other stuff.
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countrygirl2
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Post by countrygirl2 on Jun 16, 2020 1:03:59 GMT -5
I know I'm different. My son didn't know what he wanted to do, back then he was still playing. We didn't have extra money, not well off then at all. He ended up going into the military, for him best thing he ever did. They have them set aside $100 a month from pay, for that they get college paid 100% plus extra money to live on. That's how many doctors got their degrees. Son waited way longer then he should have to finish, he thought an associates would get it, finally found out it would not. It has certainly paid off for him. As hubs says though, choose the air force, they are a better organization. And as son says, choose an MOS that does not require you to be cannon fodder and something you can build on when you leave. There are a lot of advantages to serving your country. He never saw the middle east till a year or so ago.
Me personally, I would encourage that route, he would have money, you could make it because he is getting paid and not going to cost you. I'm sure this route he is going will, it just does.
I realize many don't want to do that, but its not a bad career choice to make. And they will know where he is and what he is doing at all times, LOL! He said they made a real believer out of you quick, that you did not want to visit or stay in Ft Leavenworth, their prison. So you toed the line.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Jun 16, 2020 8:58:11 GMT -5
As for investing instead, I'm at the point where I'm thinking "how much money do I really NEED to be comfortable and happy in retirement?" I have been for a long time trying to keep up with the dual income 80-150K folks and seriously...why? According to my Phil Script, a lump sum investment of $525,000.00 bearing an annual return of 7% could grow to $1,353,730.43 in 14 years! So, even with never adding another dime and making 7%, I overshoot my goal of 1.2 million...which leaves me pretty comfy, and I'm sure I will keep adding something, especially after the mortgage is gone. You are trying to keep up with folks that make more, because in general you behave like folks that make more than you actually do. Folks that make 30-40K don't send their kids to private school, have horses, put their kids in activities that require fees/payment, have acreage and large houses. If you wanted your lifestyle to align with your income, you would have made very different choices.
I wonder how easy it will be for you to move down to a lower middle class lifestyle when you've spent a good long time not doing that.
When DH and I were first married, the two of us could live on about 1500 a month. That included rent, all our bills, etc. Even if we have a paid off mortgage AND health insurance, I can't ever imagine us trying to live like that again, particularly if our kiddos are flung across the US. I do expect that we will continue to live an upper middle class lifestyle in our retirement. Because living like we did when we were first married has absolutely no appeal.
I also anticipate that I will do some more spending on myself as the kids get out of the house and while I'm in retirement.. I know I really only NEED one pair of pants for spring and fall. But, I'll be looking forward to a time where I can indulge a little bit and you know, have two or even three pairs of pants. Indulging on myself means I'm not going to see savings when the kids leave.
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oped
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Post by oped on Jun 16, 2020 9:02:17 GMT -5
As for investing instead, I'm at the point where I'm thinking "how much money do I really NEED to be comfortable and happy in retirement?" I have been for a long time trying to keep up with the dual income 80-150K folks and seriously...why? According to my Phil Script, a lump sum investment of $525,000.00 bearing an annual return of 7% could grow to $1,353,730.43 in 14 years! So, even with never adding another dime and making 7%, I overshoot my goal of 1.2 million...which leaves me pretty comfy, and I'm sure I will keep adding something, especially after the mortgage is gone. You are trying to keep up with folks that make more, because in general you behave like folks that make more than you actually do. Folks that make 30-40K don't send their kids to private school, have horses, put their kids in activities that require fees/payment, have acreage and large houses. If you wanted your lifestyle to align with your income, you would have made very different choices.
I wonder how easy it will be for you to move down to a lower middle class lifestyle when you've spent a good long time not doing that.
You might be skewed by your geographical location, because in the country this isn't undoable.
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Jun 16, 2020 9:05:01 GMT -5
MPL - can you explain a little bit on why your goal is 1.2m for retirement savings?
I'm trying to figure out what my number is, my original target - I don't think I'm going to make it! Would need to work past 65 and I don't think I'm going to make it to 62!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2020 9:22:59 GMT -5
As for investing instead, I'm at the point where I'm thinking "how much money do I really NEED to be comfortable and happy in retirement?" I have been for a long time trying to keep up with the dual income 80-150K folks and seriously...why? According to my Phil Script, a lump sum investment of $525,000.00 bearing an annual return of 7% could grow to $1,353,730.43 in 14 years! So, even with never adding another dime and making 7%, I overshoot my goal of 1.2 million...which leaves me pretty comfy, and I'm sure I will keep adding something, especially after the mortgage is gone. You are trying to keep up with folks that make more, because in general you behave like folks that make more than you actually do. Folks that make 30-40K don't send their kids to private school, have horses, put their kids in activities that require fees/payment, have acreage and large houses. If you wanted your lifestyle to align with your income, you would have made very different choices.
I wonder how easy it will be for you to move down to a lower middle class lifestyle when you've spent a good long time not doing that.
What you have forgotten is that minnesotapaintlady isn't actually earning $30 - 40k but rather deliberately makes her income seem less than it is in order to qualify for more financial aid. That has allowed her to save a lot toward retirement to keep her ostensible income low. If she cuts down on savings to have more liquid money from her own income, she is going to lose money on the financial aid side. However, borrowing from the house for a few years won't increase her stated income since housing is a legitimate expense just as saving for retirement is. I get what she is trying to do. When the kids are through college, she won't have to make herself artificially poor. Bonus is that she will have a lot of $$$ saved for retirement. But I still think the 30-year option is the best idea. You are young enough that you can still have it paid off before you retire. It gives you options, however, in case you need them.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2020 9:28:12 GMT -5
I wonder how easy it will be for you to move down to a lower middle class lifestyle when you've spent a good long time not doing that.
I'm not really understanding why I'd have to? Unless the stock market tanks I fully expect I'll have more monthly income in retirement than I do now. Having a house in the country isn't expensive if it's paid for and property taxes are low. My horses and goats are cheap pets. I grow my own hay and the buildings are already there and paid for so I'm not paying boarding. Most people probably spend more on a dog than I do for all of them combined . Our private school is pretty cheap too, and DS got half the tuition I paid back as a scholarship.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2020 9:34:20 GMT -5
MPL - can you explain a little bit on why your goal is 1.2m for retirement savings? I'm trying to figure out what my number is, my original target - I don't think I'm going to make it! Would need to work past 65 and I don't think I'm going to make it to 62! I honestly don't remember! I ran a lot of calculators over the years and that just seems to be where I landed as a "comfy" number for me. With a 4% draw, that's 48K/year plus SS which would bring me to around 60K or so. Plenty (assuming I have no mortgage! )
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2020 10:11:39 GMT -5
What you have forgotten is that minnesotapaintlady isn't actually earning $30 - 40k but rather deliberately makes her income seem less than it is in order to qualify for more financial aid. That has allowed her to save a lot toward retirement to keep her ostensible income low. If she cuts down on savings to have more liquid money from her own income, she is going to lose money on the financial aid side. I've been putting every raise into my 401K since I went back to work 15 years ago. Plus anytime I was able to reduce childcare FSA contributions or insurance premiums I upped it too. I keep a gazillion spreadsheets, so added another column to one to see how my gross after retirement has been the past 15 years and it's been practically the same every year.
Gross | Gross-Retirement | 13279
42266 30902 32990 31370 23142 34189 36797 38474 37416 40067 40718 41965 49362 50000
| 8809 31081 21272 26375 28120 17372 26791 27978 28881 28313 28871 26678 26238 25362 24000
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jun 16, 2020 10:51:34 GMT -5
I know I'm different. My son didn't know what he wanted to do, back then he was still playing. We didn't have extra money, not well off then at all. He ended up going into the military, for him best thing he ever did. They have them set aside $100 a month from pay, for that they get college paid 100% plus extra money to live on. That's how many doctors got their degrees. Son waited way longer then he should have to finish, he thought an associates would get it, finally found out it would not. It has certainly paid off for him. As hubs says though, choose the air force, they are a better organization. And as son says, choose an MOS that does not require you to be cannon fodder and something you can build on when you leave. There are a lot of advantages to serving your country. He never saw the middle east till a year or so ago. Me personally, I would encourage that route, he would have money, you could make it because he is getting paid and not going to cost you. I'm sure this route he is going will, it just does. I realize many don't want to do that, but its not a bad career choice to make. And they will know where he is and what he is doing at all times, LOL! He said they made a real believer out of you quick, that you did not want to visit or stay in Ft Leavenworth, their prison. So you toed the line. This isn’t the case here. MPL’s son is an excellent student and knows what he wants to do. My nephew was in the National Guard and it paid for his education. Knowing what he currently knows he is going back after he got out. But like your son, despite him going to college he was floundering and is still clueless. You have to like the military mindset to go this route. I lived this life for 20 years of MY life as a child, and absolutely know that it was not for me. I actually gave it some brief thought while working on my doctorate, and realized that I did not like this life being a dependent....why would I want to sign on as an adult? I imagine in my lifetime, my dad joined us at Christmas roughly 1/3 of the Christmases I lived under his roof. Even fewer of my birthdays. He was gone as short as a week and as long as several months at a time. The first year I started and finished at the same school, I was in college. I really have no roots anywhere. I have no childhood friends, oldest friends I have are those from college and early in my career. If you are the wife of a military member, you can’t assume that you’ll get any support from your spouse. 2/3 births my mom gave, my dad was away. For my brother’s birth, it was during a hurricane in FL, and my dad was called in to fly planes out of the way. My grandparents were there for my birth as my dad was in Thailand. You pay in additional ways other than monetarily by going this route.
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countrygirl2
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Post by countrygirl2 on Jun 16, 2020 16:04:51 GMT -5
I don't mean make a career just long enough to get college paid for. Seems worthwhile to me. son liked and likes it I think the structure is what he likes, of course, with DOD he likes the job security and the money plus a pension. I agree with that.
In construction, hubs was gone, I was alone, and we never really had friends either. Oh he did, but that didn't include me. Not just military, lots of jobs don't end up with friends if you work away all the time. Not a good situation.
I was also thinking schooling would be easier and he would have income and mom wouldn't need to add money. He might have to stay a few more years, but no debt and done. And more money availabe for higher education if he wants to go that route. Otherwise he is going to have to work and try to keep grades up for scholarships, sounds like he could do it, just looking at an alternative.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2020 16:38:23 GMT -5
This isn’t the case here. MPL’s son is an excellent student and knows what he wants to do. I don't know. The jury is still out on that one.
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CCL
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Post by CCL on Jun 16, 2020 17:01:45 GMT -5
You are trying to keep up with folks that make more, because in general you behave like folks that make more than you actually do. Folks that make 30-40K don't send their kids to private school, have horses, put their kids in activities that require fees/payment, have acreage and large houses. If you wanted your lifestyle to align with your income, you would have made very different choices.
I wonder how easy it will be for you to move down to a lower middle class lifestyle when you've spent a good long time not doing that.
What you have forgotten is that minnesotapaintlady isn't actually earning $30 - 40k but rather deliberately makes her income seem less than it is in order to qualify for more financial aid. That has allowed her to save a lot toward retirement to keep her ostensible income low. If she cuts down on savings to have more liquid money from her own income, she is going to lose money on the financial aid side. However, borrowing from the house for a few years won't increase her stated income since housing is a legitimate expense just as saving for retirement is. I get what she is trying to do. When the kids are through college, she won't have to make herself artificially poor. Bonus is that she will have a lot of $$$ saved for retirement. But I still think the 30-year option is the best idea. You are young enough that you can still have it paid off before you retire. It gives you options, however, in case you need them. Another thing about MPL is there are plenty of things most people, even lower income, spend a good chunk of money on that she spends almost nothing on. I'm pretty cheap, but even I will spend $300 a month on a car payment if I feel like buying a new car, so $3600 a year for that. She probably hasn't spent that much on a car (as far as buying/payments) in 6 or 8 years. How much do people spend eating out? She gets free lunches from KFC. How much do typical middle class folks spend on vacations? She's probably only taken one in the last 10 years. How much on clothing, furniture, etc.? She saves in lots of ways so she can spend more on things that matter more to her.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2020 17:43:23 GMT -5
What you have forgotten is that minnesotapaintlady isn't actually earning $30 - 40k but rather deliberately makes her income seem less than it is in order to qualify for more financial aid. That has allowed her to save a lot toward retirement to keep her ostensible income low. If she cuts down on savings to have more liquid money from her own income, she is going to lose money on the financial aid side. However, borrowing from the house for a few years won't increase her stated income since housing is a legitimate expense just as saving for retirement is. I get what she is trying to do. When the kids are through college, she won't have to make herself artificially poor. Bonus is that she will have a lot of $$$ saved for retirement. But I still think the 30-year option is the best idea. You are young enough that you can still have it paid off before you retire. It gives you options, however, in case you need them. Another thing about MPL is there are plenty of things most people, even lower income, spend a good chunk of money on that she spends almost nothing on. I'm pretty cheap, but even I will spend $300 a month on a car payment if I feel like buying a new car, so $3600 a year for that. She probably hasn't spent that much on a car (as far as buying/payments) in 6 or 8 years. How much do people spend eating out? She gets free lunches from KFC. How much do typical middle class folks spend on vacations? She's probably only taken one in the last 10 years. How much on clothing, furniture, etc.? She saves in lots of ways so she can spend more on things that matter more to her. Yeah, those free school lunches come to mind. Great way to cut your grocery bill!
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gambler
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"the education of a man is never completed until he dies" Robert E. Lee
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Post by gambler on Jun 16, 2020 20:54:33 GMT -5
I did the military thing for my degrees to masters. It is NOT as easy as it sounds. Think civilians have a very clouded opinion of thinking what is included in the belief of paid for collage. Medical insurance and retirement. If you have not walked the walk do not think it is easy
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gambler
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"the education of a man is never completed until he dies" Robert E. Lee
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Post by gambler on Jun 16, 2020 21:19:10 GMT -5
I need to say I am sorry. Get kind of tired of thinking military is easy way to get college ect, etc it really is not. Not for any one not willing to do the rest.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2020 22:07:46 GMT -5
I actually tried to join the Air Force when I was in high school. It was going to be my ticket out town. Then I failed the physical for a bum eye.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2020 22:19:34 GMT -5
Another thing about MPL is there are plenty of things most people, even lower income, spend a good chunk of money on that she spends almost nothing on. I'm pretty cheap, but even I will spend $300 a month on a car payment if I feel like buying a new car, so $3600 a year for that. She probably hasn't spent that much on a car (as far as buying/payments) in 6 or 8 years. How much do people spend eating out? She gets free lunches from KFC. How much do typical middle class folks spend on vacations? She's probably only taken one in the last 10 years. How much on clothing, furniture, etc.? She saves in lots of ways so she can spend more on things that matter more to her. Yeah, those free school lunches come to mind. Great way to cut your grocery bill! Our charter school lunches were really good...all homemade, hot food...but they quit serving for the Summer and now I pick them up from the regular public Middle School. They are pretty crappy! Not crappy enough to turn it down unless I get sent back to the office and it's just too inconvenient, but definitely no excited kids digging through the bag when I get home with lunch anymore.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2020 22:27:24 GMT -5
Well...I've taken several trips in the past 10 years, but I do them on the cheap. Lots of FF miles, credit card bonuses and staying at parents timeshares for free.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Jun 16, 2020 22:31:11 GMT -5
We started getting the free school food about a month ago. They only distribute once a week, and it's 7 breakfasts, lunches, snacks and dinners for each kid. Each kid gets a gallon and a half of milk, a bag of apples, last week 4 Hamburg patties and 4 chicken patties, and a package of buns, etc, etc. Nothing warm and ready to eat, but it is helping with our grocery bill, which had gotten insane.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2020 22:48:30 GMT -5
I wish our pick up was just one day a week. It may as well be when it's just prepackaged stuff like what you'd get out of a vending machine. I think the worse part is it's always the same thing. Fritos for a snack with their lunch and Lucky Charms (actually Marshmallow Matey's LOL) and juice with a cheesestick for breakfast. Today was an Uncrustable PB&J sandwich. Yesterday a corn dog.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Jun 17, 2020 7:09:49 GMT -5
My kids also get the uncrustables, cheesesticks, and the little bowls of cereal, and breakfast bars. They also get little frozen waffles and pancakes you stick in the microwave.
Frankly, we wouldn't have bothered if it was just that stuff, or of we had to pick up several days a week like they had in the beginning. We were able to shop less often, except for milk, and they had the big gallons of milk. It is nice to add a little variety for the kids, too. We were in a serious rut.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jun 17, 2020 8:24:30 GMT -5
I'll look into the Rapid Refi more. If it really doesn't have closing costs maybe. It's a 10 year at 3%, but it says there is a 15 year option for 3.25 and 20 year for 3.5% with a balloon payment due at 10 years. That's probably bad... I'm SO CLOSE to having this damn thing paid off. The balance is dropping more than $1000/month now. Not really. You just sell or refinance. I'd do the longer loan. 3% is still a great rate.
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Jun 17, 2020 8:36:32 GMT -5
As for investing instead, I'm at the point where I'm thinking "how much money do I really NEED to be comfortable and happy in retirement?" I have been for a long time trying to keep up with the dual income 80-150K folks and seriously...why? According to my Phil Script, a lump sum investment of $525,000.00 bearing an annual return of 7% could grow to $1,353,730.43 in 14 years! So, even with never adding another dime and making 7%, I overshoot my goal of 1.2 million...which leaves me pretty comfy, and I'm sure I will keep adding something, especially after the mortgage is gone. You are trying to keep up with folks that make more, because in general you behave like folks that make more than you actually do. Folks that make 30-40K don't send their kids to private school, have horses, put their kids in activities that require fees/payment, have acreage and large houses. If you wanted your lifestyle to align with your income, you would have made very different choices.
I wonder how easy it will be for you to move down to a lower middle class lifestyle when you've spent a good long time not doing that.
When DH and I were first married, the two of us could live on about 1500 a month. That included rent, all our bills, etc. Even if we have a paid off mortgage AND health insurance, I can't ever imagine us trying to live like that again, particularly if our kiddos are flung across the US. I do expect that we will continue to live an upper middle class lifestyle in our retirement. Because living like we did when we were first married has absolutely no appeal.
I also anticipate that I will do some more spending on myself as the kids get out of the house and while I'm in retirement.. I know I really only NEED one pair of pants for spring and fall. But, I'll be looking forward to a time where I can indulge a little bit and you know, have two or even three pairs of pants. Indulging on myself means I'm not going to see savings when the kids leave.
I will tell you that it is pretty great feeling free once they're gone. Hang in there. This said after I just spent $500 putting brakes and rotors on T1's car to make it safe to drive. I at least have it now that they're out. Before I wouldn't have had it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2020 8:40:01 GMT -5
Why are you using math against you? You are estimating that the market will go up 7% in the next 14 years, but don't want to borrow cheaper money at under 4%? Key word being "estimating". It's still a gamble. I have two funds at Fidelity right now. 18 years ago one was at 22K and one was at 10K. The 22K one is now 124K, but the 10K one is only at 16K. I lost my shirt in science and tech funds during the dot.com bubble burst. Yeah I THINK they will go up and I hope they do, kind of like I think and hope SS will be there.
A paid off house just seems like one aspect of retirement savings. Phil's house is paid off and I'll bet he's not 100% in stocks either.
I did do some more hunting online for mortgages last night to see if I could find a 30 year with no closing costs and they don't like my small loan amount at all. I was getting quotes for over 5%! With 3K closing costs! So...it's looking like my local CU might be the best deal after all. My biggest issue with a 30 year is that I know what is going to happen. I'm going to pay 3K in closing costs and then keep throwing the money at it come hell or high water to pay off the same as I was. People can harp on me about emotions and not being rational, but they are not the ones that have been dealing with almost complete OCD mental health issues around their mortgage for a long time. I seriously could tell you to the penny what I owe on it on any given day because every damn morning for the past decade or so when I go out to the barn to do chores the number just keeps repeating in my head over and over until I'm saying it out loud. I just want the peace that will come from it being gone entirely.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jun 17, 2020 9:03:21 GMT -5
Why are you using math against you? You are estimating that the market will go up 7% in the next 14 years, but don't want to borrow cheaper money at under 4%? Key word being "estimating". It's still a gamble. I have two funds at Fidelity right now. 18 years ago one was at 22K and one was at 10K. The 22K one is now 124K, but the 10K one is only at 16K. I lost my shirt in science and tech funds during the dot.com bubble burst. Yeah I THINK they will go up and I hope they do, kind of like I think and hope SS will be there.
A paid off house just seems like one aspect of retirement savings. Phil's house is paid off and I'll bet he's not 100% in stocks either.
I did do some more hunting online for mortgages last night to see if I could find a 30 year with no closing costs and they don't like my small loan amount at all. I was getting quotes for over 5%! With 3K closing costs! So...it's looking like my local CU might be the best deal after all. My biggest issue with a 30 year is that I know what is going to happen. I'm going to pay 3K in closing costs and then keep throwing the money at it come hell or high water to pay off the same as I was. People can harp on me about emotions and not being rational, but they are not the ones that have been dealing with almost complete OCD mental health issues around their mortgage for a long time. I seriously could tell you to the penny what I owe on it on any given day because every damn morning for the past decade or so when I go out to the barn to do chores the number just keeps repeating in my head over and over until I'm saying it out loud. I just want the peace that will come from it being gone entirely.
Phil told us once he had a mortgage on every property he owned. Getting a 30 year doesn't mean you have to have the mortgage for 30 years. But getting a 10 year requires you to make the higher payment every single month. In a time of cash flow concerns, reducing obligations is a great first step. Plus, if you can pay your house off in 10 years, why not start paying it off 5 years from now?
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Jun 17, 2020 9:03:46 GMT -5
I wouldn't go with the 30 year if it's that much more. I still think the 15 is your best bet. I don't know anyone else that I would advise to get a loan with a balloon at the end, except for you.
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Deleted
Joined: May 2, 2024 5:47:37 GMT -5
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2020 9:11:36 GMT -5
Phil told us once he had a mortgage on every property he owned. All his rentals. Not his personal residence.
I'm not understanding this.
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countrygirl2
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 7, 2016 15:45:05 GMT -5
Posts: 16,925
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Post by countrygirl2 on Jun 17, 2020 9:28:06 GMT -5
I remember Phil, saying his wife did NOT want a mortgage on their home so he paid it off.
He may be rich, who knows for sure, but I would never keep mortgages on everything. Couldn't live with it. As hubs said from our investments we are slated to take about $20k+ out per year until we are 100 and that's with earning nothing on those 401k's. Eventually that and SS would do. As we age we are eventually going to spend less. Right now our main spending is from the property acct on property. And I think part of that is just him wanting to keep busy. For me, I want him to stop so we can enjoy the income from them instead of dumping it back in. I never saw us still messing around with redoing one at our age.
I'm going over today and caulk and stain, maybe mop. I cleaned the living room floor yesterday to just stop tracking dirt and stuff, going to vac the bedrooms and bathroom today.
Tomorrow morning early, DH to see if they are going to fix his cataracts, I assume one eye. That will likely stop us working again for awhile, damn. Want to finish that place.
I'm guessing he won't be able to mow or anything for at least a couple of weeks to keep debris out of it or them.
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