Reasons why the Donalds weak defense on his trial

[dezii]

will be fine for his GOP Senator supporters...
-----------------------------------
"Let’s dispense with one thing off the bat: President Donald Trump’s impeachment defense is — in addition to being riddled with false factual claims and misleading characterizations — legal claptrap.

It’s also likely to work."Trump can’t be impeached for behaviors that are not actual crimes.
--------------------------
".....Trump can’t be impeached for behaviors that are not actual crimes."
----------------------------
"The evidence amassed during the House impeachment proceedings — that he shook down a foreign government in the service of his own reelection campaign — is overwhelming, and Trump has yet to counter any of it with so much as a single piece of paper or word of testimony.

He has given himself no option but to say, in effect: “Yeah, I did it. So what?”
======================================

www.yahoo.com/news/why-trumps-threadbare-legal-argument-130930670.html

[hoops902]

Jan 22, 2020 14:42:27 GMT -5 dezii said:

will be fine for his GOP Senator supporters...
-----------------------------------
"Let’s dispense with one thing off the bat: President Donald Trump’s impeachment defense is — in addition to being riddled with false factual claims and misleading characterizations — legal claptrap.

It’s also likely to work."Trump can’t be impeached for behaviors that are not actual crimes.
--------------------------
".....Trump can’t be impeached for behaviors that are not actual crimes."
----------------------------
"The evidence amassed during the House impeachment proceedings — that he shook down a foreign government in the service of his own reelection campaign — is overwhelming, and Trump has yet to counter any of it with so much as a single piece of paper or word of testimony.

He has given himself no option but to say, in effect: “Yeah, I did it. So what?”
======================================

www.yahoo.com/news/why-trumps-threadbare-legal-argument-130930670.html

I say why even TRY to counter it.  He's not going to be impeached, the worst thing he can do is talk and talk until he says something so unignorable that it hurts him (either here or in the next election).  The best thing he can do is say "Yep, did it, but it's not impeachable" and let the people in his party agree.

[djAdvocate]

he was impeached, hoops. that's over.

you mean convicted?

yes, since the trial is rigged, he has basically a 0% chance of getting convicted.

[hoops902]

Jan 22, 2020 15:17:26 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

he was impeached, hoops. that's over.

you mean convicted?

yes, since the trial is rigged, he has basically a 0% chance of getting convicted.

yes, I meant convicted in his impeachment trial.

[bean29]

I am disillusioned with the Republican Party. I think they are definitely Swamp Dwelling Scum. I know there are a good number of Swamp Dwelling Politicians in the Democratic Party too, but the ones I really think are going to be hurt by all this is the Evangelical Christians.  They don't get a pass from me on this.  If they can accept this crap just to get Supreme Court Justices that will vote against Abortion and Birth Control for Women, and look the other way on human rights, health care, food stamps and housing for the needy, voting rights, Anti-Semitism, and White Supremists gaining power, then I just don't see them attracting new members.  I just don't give them the benefit of the doubt on their concern and caring for their fellow man.  They are a bunch of self serving a holes imho. 

[dezii]

Jan 22, 2020 18:38:47 GMT -5 bean29 said:

I am disillusioned with the Republican Party. I think they are definitely Swamp Dwelling Scum. I know there are a good number of Swamp Dwelling Politicians in the Democratic Party too, but the ones I really think are going to be hurt by all this is the Evangelical Christians.  They don't get a pass from me on this.  If they can accept this crap just to get Supreme Court Justices that will vote against Abortion and Birth Control for Women, and look the other way on human rights, health care, food stamps and housing for the needy, voting rights, Anti-Semitism, and White Supremists gaining power, then I just don't see them attracting new members.  I just don't give them the benefit of the doubt on their concern and caring for their fellow man.  They are a bunch of self serving a holes imho. 

Glad u were able to get that off your chest...feel better now?

By the way, u made some great points and I agree with u whole heartedly. Actually, as Senators, they have a six year term and while some are up for reelection in 2020, majority are not...and thus have no reason to be afraid of the backlash and attacks of the Donald...it's why the Senate was created the way it is..not to be influenced as the House members are, up for election every two years, very vulnerable to all kinds of pressures...seem have to kiss so many back sides u wonder how they can keep them all straight...though withal the pressures, so many stay in office for years.

[giramomma]

Jan 22, 2020 18:38:47 GMT -5 bean29 said:

 then I just don't see them attracting new members.  I just don't give them the benefit of the doubt on their concern and caring for their fellow man.  They are a bunch of self serving a holes imho. 

I don't agree with you. The time is ripe for attracting new members. People like that they don't have to hide prejudices anymore. People like to hear that it's OK to call folks n_____s or that women are objects, for example. There's enough money floating around to keep Repubs in power.

I also think think that most people are self-serving, even if it's not done in a way that's meant to be malicious.

I mean, how many truly kind, caring people do you really know? Where words, thought, and deeds all match? Like it or not, most humans do not behave like that. Look at Mother Teresa- she was still self-serving.

I'm not sure as a society, we're coming back from a time where neighbors helped neighbors...I mean in a meaningful way. Not in, "hey, I shoveled some of your sidewalk today." sort of way. The recession of 2008 wasn't enough. We need something like the great depression to get people to start behaving differently. The problem is no one wants something that big and awful to happen.

[Cheesy FL-Vol]

Jan 23, 2020 6:52:28 GMT -5 dezii said:

Jan 22, 2020 18:38:47 GMT -5 bean29 said:

I am disillusioned with the Republican Party. I think they are definitely Swamp Dwelling Scum. I know there are a good number of Swamp Dwelling Politicians in the Democratic Party too, but the ones I really think are going to be hurt by all this is the Evangelical Christians.  They don't get a pass from me on this.  If they can accept this crap just to get Supreme Court Justices that will vote against Abortion and Birth Control for Women, and look the other way on human rights, health care, food stamps and housing for the needy, voting rights, Anti-Semitism, and White Supremists gaining power, then I just don't see them attracting new members.  I just don't give them the benefit of the doubt on their concern and caring for their fellow man.  They are a bunch of self serving a holes imho. 

Glad u were able to get that off your chest...feel better now?

By the way, u made some great points and I agree with u whole heartedly. Actually, as Senators, they have a six year term and while some are up for reelection in 2020, majority are not...and thus have no reason to be afraid of the backlash and attacks of the Donald...it's why the Senate was created the way it is..not to be influenced as the House members are, up for election every two years, very vulnerable to all kinds of pressures...seem have to kiss so many back sides u wonder how they can keep them all straight...though withal the pressures, so many stay in office for years.

Actually 35 out of 100 senators are up for election/re-election. That is more than 1/3 of the senate and not an insubstantial number.

[laterbloomer]

"false factual claims and misleading characterizations"

The word you're looking for is lies. In Canada it's illegal to lie in court. People go to jail for that, even lawyers.It must be different up there.

[laterbloomer]

Jan 23, 2020 9:04:14 GMT -5 giramomma said:

Jan 22, 2020 18:38:47 GMT -5 bean29 said:

 then I just don't see them attracting new members.  I just don't give them the benefit of the doubt on their concern and caring for their fellow man.  They are a bunch of self serving a holes imho. 

I don't agree with you. The time is ripe for attracting new members. People like that they don't have to hide prejudices anymore. People like to hear that it's OK to call folks n_____s or that women are objects, for example. There's enough money floating around to keep Repubs in power.

I also think think that most people are self-serving, even if it's not done in a way that's meant to be malicious.

I mean, how many truly kind, caring people do you really know? Where words, thought, and deeds all match? Like it or not, most humans do not behave like that. Look at Mother Teresa- she was still self-serving.

I'm not sure as a society, we're coming back from a time where neighbors helped neighbors...I mean in a meaningful way. Not in, "hey, I shoveled some of your sidewalk today." sort of way. The recession of 2008 wasn't enough. We need something like the great depression to get people to start behaving differently. The problem is no one wants something that big and awful to happen.

I need more info on that one.

[billisonboard]

Jan 23, 2020 6:52:28 GMT -5 dezii said:

... Actually, as Senators, they have a six year term and while some are up for reelection in 2020, majority are not...and thus have no reason to be afraid of the backlash and attacks of the Donald...it's why the Senate was created the way it is..not to be influenced as the House members are, ...

FWIW, the Senate was created to have Senators appointed by state legislatures so they would have even a greater separation from popular elections.

[bean29]

Jan 23, 2020 9:04:14 GMT -5 giramomma said:

Jan 22, 2020 18:38:47 GMT -5 bean29 said:

 then I just don't see them attracting new members.  I just don't give them the benefit of the doubt on their concern and caring for their fellow man.  They are a bunch of self serving a holes imho. 

I don't agree with you. The time is ripe for attracting new members. People like that they don't have to hide prejudices anymore. People like to hear that it's OK to call folks n_____s or that women are objects, for example. There's enough money floating around to keep Repubs in power.

I also think think that most people are self-serving, even if it's not done in a way that's meant to be malicious.

I mean, how many truly kind, caring people do you really know? Where words, thought, and deeds all match? Like it or not, most humans do not behave like that. Look at Mother Teresa- she was still self-serving.

I'm not sure as a society, we're coming back from a time where neighbors helped neighbors...I mean in a meaningful way. Not in, "hey, I shoveled some of your sidewalk today." sort of way. The recession of 2008 wasn't enough. We need something like the great depression to get people to start behaving differently. The problem is no one wants something that big and awful to happen.

I don't think Christians will attract members who have fallen away from the fold back - if they fell away, they were already disillusioned about something, I think there is more Ugly there now, and the Hypocrisy is in plain sight more than ever.

I do think there are a good number of truly good Christians Living a good Christian Lifestyle, but I think they are following an Anti-Christ figure.  I know a good number of people that I think pretty much live the word of the Lord and I don't think there is any mis-match on words/deeds/thoughts in their lives except in their Political party.  I really think the Platform of the Republican Party has very little in common with the Lord's teachings. 

When I was a devout church goer, I once read a book about Mother Teresa - I thought she was a very admirable person.  How do you figure she was self serving?  I had the overall impression she was pretty selfless.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Jan 23, 2020 9:04:14 GMT -5 giramomma said:

Jan 22, 2020 18:38:47 GMT -5 bean29 said:

 then I just don't see them attracting new members.  I just don't give them the benefit of the doubt on their concern and caring for their fellow man.  They are a bunch of self serving a holes imho. 

I don't agree with you. The time is ripe for attracting new members. People like that they don't have to hide prejudices anymore. People like to hear that it's OK to call folks n_____s or that women are objects, for example. There's enough money floating around to keep Repubs in power.

I also think think that most people are self-serving, even if it's not done in a way that's meant to be malicious.

I mean, how many truly kind, caring people do you really know? Where words, thought, and deeds all match? Like it or not, most humans do not behave like that. Look at Mother Teresa- she was still self-serving.

I'm not sure as a society, we're coming back from a time where neighbors helped neighbors...I mean in a meaningful way. Not in, "hey, I shoveled some of your sidewalk today." sort of way. The recession of 2008 wasn't enough. We need something like the great depression to get people to start behaving differently. The problem is no one wants something that big and awful to happen.

I'm not a religious expert but I know in my city that the church populations are rapidly aging/dying and nobody younger is coming in to replace them.

Which statistics bear out.  Statistically each generation has become MORE secular than the last.   Overall, studies show, this is a GOOD thing for society.

Unfortunately America still has a long way to go compared to other Western nations.  We're still heavily steeped in our Puritan roots.  However we are getting there one funeral at a time if we must.

I heard an interesting explanation on Adam Ruins Everything episode about housing from a civil rights expert (forgot her name) she talked about how a rubber band can only be stretched so far until it snaps back, that is what we are experiencing now, HOWEVER even though the rubber band snaps back it is never quite as taunt as it was when it started.

The key is we have to remain vigilant and keep pulling, keep stretching.   We can't declare racism over because of Obama.  We can't declare sexism over because Clinton.  We can't say homophobia is over because gay marriage is legal etc etc.

We also cannot give into apathy and declare the world doomed so what is the point of me doing anything?   Assholes may be winning the battle currently but we can prevent assholes from winning the war.

[Wisconsin Beth]

Jan 23, 2020 10:23:28 GMT -5 bean29 said:

Jan 23, 2020 9:04:14 GMT -5 giramomma said:

I don't agree with you. The time is ripe for attracting new members. People like that they don't have to hide prejudices anymore. People like to hear that it's OK to call folks n_____s or that women are objects, for example. There's enough money floating around to keep Repubs in power.

I also think think that most people are self-serving, even if it's not done in a way that's meant to be malicious.

I mean, how many truly kind, caring people do you really know? Where words, thought, and deeds all match? Like it or not, most humans do not behave like that. Look at Mother Teresa- she was still self-serving.

I'm not sure as a society, we're coming back from a time where neighbors helped neighbors...I mean in a meaningful way. Not in, "hey, I shoveled some of your sidewalk today." sort of way. The recession of 2008 wasn't enough. We need something like the great depression to get people to start behaving differently. The problem is no one wants something that big and awful to happen.

I don't think Christians will attract members who have fallen away from the fold back - if they fell away, they were already disillusioned about something, I think there is more Ugly there now, and the Hypocrisy is in plain sight more than ever.

I do think there are a good number of truly good Christians Living a good Christian Lifestyle, but I think they are following an Anti-Christ figure.  I know a good number of people that I think pretty much live the word of the Lord and I don't think there is any mis-match on words/deeds/thoughts in their lives except in their Political party.  I really think the Platform of the Republican Party has very little in common with the Lord's teachings. 

When I was a devout church goer, I once read a book about Mother Teresa - I thought she was a very admirable person.  How do you figure she was self serving?  I had the overall impression she was pretty selfless.

Mother Teresa was, like all of us, a flawed human being. 

From Wikipedia A controversial figure during her life and after her death, Teresa was admired by many for her charitable work. She was praised and criticized on various counts, such as for her views on abortion and contraception, and was criticized for poor conditions in her houses for the dying

According to a paper by Canadian academics Serge Larivée, Geneviève Chénard and Carole Sénéchal, Teresa's clinics received millions of dollars in donations but lacked medical care, systematic diagnosis, necessary nutrition and sufficient analgesics for those in pain;[115] in the opinion of the three academics, "Mother Teresa believed the sick must suffer like Christ on the cross".[116] It was said that the additional money might have transformed the health of the city's poor by creating advanced palliative care facilities.[117][118]

One of Teresa's most outspoken critics was English journalist, literary critic and antitheist Christopher Hitchens, host of the documentary Hell's Angel (1994) and author of the essay The Missionary Position: Mother Teresa in Theory and Practice (1995) who wrote in a 2003 article: "This returns us to the medieval corruption of the church, which sold indulgences to the rich while preaching hellfire and continence to the poor. [Mother Teresa] was not a friend of the poor. She was a friend of poverty. She said that suffering was a gift from God. She spent her life opposing the only known cure for poverty, which is the empowerment of women and the emancipation of them from a livestock version of compulsory reproduction."[119] He accused her of hypocrisy for choosing advanced treatment for her heart condition.[120][121] Hitchens said that "her intention was not to help people", and that she lied to donors about how their contributions were used. "It was by talking to her that I discovered, and she assured me, that she wasn't working to alleviate poverty", he said, "She was working to expand the number of Catholics. She said, 'I'm not a social worker. I don't do it for this reason. I do it for Christ. I do it for the church.'"[122] Although Hitchens thought he was the only witness called by the Vatican, Aroup Chatterjee (author of Mother Teresa: The Untold Story) was also called to present evidence opposing Teresa's beatification and canonisation;[123] the Vatican had abolished the traditional "devil's advocate", which served a similar purpose.[123]

Abortion-rights groups have also criticised Teresa's stance against abortion and contraception.[124][125][126]

I cut a bunch of stuff but it's en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother_Teresa

[azucena]

Jan 23, 2020 10:40:24 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Jan 23, 2020 9:04:14 GMT -5 giramomma said:

I don't agree with you. The time is ripe for attracting new members. People like that they don't have to hide prejudices anymore. People like to hear that it's OK to call folks n_____s or that women are objects, for example. There's enough money floating around to keep Repubs in power.

I also think think that most people are self-serving, even if it's not done in a way that's meant to be malicious.

I mean, how many truly kind, caring people do you really know? Where words, thought, and deeds all match? Like it or not, most humans do not behave like that. Look at Mother Teresa- she was still self-serving.

I'm not sure as a society, we're coming back from a time where neighbors helped neighbors...I mean in a meaningful way. Not in, "hey, I shoveled some of your sidewalk today." sort of way. The recession of 2008 wasn't enough. We need something like the great depression to get people to start behaving differently. The problem is no one wants something that big and awful to happen.

I'm not a religious expert but I know in my city that the church populations are rapidly aging/dying and nobody younger is coming in to replace them.

Which statistics bear out.  Statistically each generation has become MORE secular than the last.   Overall, studies show, this is a GOOD thing for society.

Unfortunately America still has a long way to go compared to other Western nations.  We're still heavily steeped in our Puritan roots.  However we are getting there one funeral at a time if we must.

I heard an interesting explanation on Adam Ruins Everything episode about housing from a civil rights expert (forgot her name) she talked about how a rubber band can only be stretched so far until it snaps back, that is what we are experiencing now, HOWEVER even though the rubber band snaps back it is never quite as taunt as it was when it started.

The key is we have to remain vigilant and keep pulling, keep stretching.   We can't declare racism over because of Obama.  We can't declare sexism over because Clinton.  We can't say homophobia is over because gay marriage is legal etc etc.

We also cannot give into apathy and declare the world doomed so what is the point of me doing anything?   Assholes may be winning the battle currently but we can prevent assholes from winning the war.

Drama - I'm genuinely curious about the bolded statement.  When you get a chance, please elaborate.

I'm a Christian that has historically voted Repub but didn't vote for Trump.  FWIW, it seems about 50/50 in my circle of Christian friends.  For my own sanity, I don't bring up Trump with friends that I think supported him.  I can't look at a friend the same way once they've voiced currently supporting him.  I find it repulsive.

[dezii]

Jan 23, 2020 10:10:15 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Jan 23, 2020 6:52:28 GMT -5 dezii said:

... Actually, as Senators, they have a six year term and while some are up for reelection in 2020, majority are not...and thus have no reason to be afraid of the backlash and attacks of the Donald...it's why the Senate was created the way it is..not to be influenced as the House members are, ...

FWIW, the Senate was created to have Senators appointed by state legislatures so they would have even a greater separation from popular elections.

I didn't know that Senators were appointed by legislatures till 1914...then elected..

One learns all the time here
----------------------------------------
"Passed by Congress May 13, 1912, and ratified April 8, 1913, the 17th amendment modified Article I, section 3, of the Constitution by allowing voters to cast direct votes for U.S. Senators. Prior to its passage, Senators were chosen by state legislatures. ... Each state legislature would elect two senators to 6-year terms."
--------------------------------------------
I thought after the first appointment by legislature, subsequently they were elected by populace like the House...Anyone know procedure where different Senators are up for ewelection every two years...how that came about?

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Jan 23, 2020 11:28:08 GMT -5 azucena said:

Jan 23, 2020 10:40:24 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

I'm not a religious expert but I know in my city that the church populations are rapidly aging/dying and nobody younger is coming in to replace them.

Which statistics bear out.  Statistically each generation has become MORE secular than the last.   Overall, studies show, this is a GOOD thing for society.

Unfortunately America still has a long way to go compared to other Western nations.  We're still heavily steeped in our Puritan roots.  However we are getting there one funeral at a time if we must.

I heard an interesting explanation on Adam Ruins Everything episode about housing from a civil rights expert (forgot her name) she talked about how a rubber band can only be stretched so far until it snaps back, that is what we are experiencing now, HOWEVER even though the rubber band snaps back it is never quite as taunt as it was when it started.

The key is we have to remain vigilant and keep pulling, keep stretching.   We can't declare racism over because of Obama.  We can't declare sexism over because Clinton.  We can't say homophobia is over because gay marriage is legal etc etc.

We also cannot give into apathy and declare the world doomed so what is the point of me doing anything?   Assholes may be winning the battle currently but we can prevent assholes from winning the war.

Drama - I'm genuinely curious about the bolded statement.  When you get a chance, please elaborate.

I'm a Christian that has historically voted Repub but didn't vote for Trump.  FWIW, it seems about 50/50 in my circle of Christian friends.  For my own sanity, I don't bring up Trump with friends that I think supported him.  I can't look at a friend the same way once they've voiced currently supporting him.  I find it repulsive.

For society as a whole it is better because things like poverty, disease, drug abuse etc are not viewed thru the lens of "well God clearly must hate you" (or in reverse love me because I am healthy) so public health is improved.

Social nets are better because they are not viewed as "crutches" for lazy immoral people.   

Women's status in society is better off because they have more rights and reproductive freedom.

Education is better because it is not filtered thru the lens of whichever religion is in charge for the day.

It becomes a lot harder to justify persecution of people when you don't have God "on your side".

Generally for anyone who is not a white straight Christian cis-male, society significantly improves as society becomes more secular.

Scientifically countries are usually more advanced because there is nobody blocking things based on ideology.

If you want the actual statistics there are books with the studies in thing.  One I read is Enlightenment Now.   The other is this one: It's Better Than It Looks: Reasons for Optimism in an Age of Fear.

We're ahead of a lot of the countries that we tend to despise ::cough:: Middle East:: ::cough:: but we aren't as far ahead of them as we think.  We tend towards the bottom of the pile Western culture wise when it comes to all these things and it in large part has to do with us clinging to our Puritan roots.

*Since I know it is coming I will add the disclaimer that this DOES NOT APPLY TO EACH AND EVERY INDIVIDUAL CHRISTIAN IN EXISTENCE, it is applied statstically to society as a whole.

[billisonboard]

Jan 23, 2020 11:39:39 GMT -5 dezii said:

... ...Anyone know procedure where different Senators are up for ewelection every two years...how that came about?

It was set up originally by that goode olde US Constitution:

Immediately after they shall be assembled in Consequence of the first Election, they shall be divided as equally as may be into three Classes. The Seats of the Senators of the first Class shall be vacated at the Expiration of the second Year, of the second Class at the Expiration of the fourth Year, and of the third Class at the Expiration of the sixth Year, so that one third may be chosen every second Year;

Staggered Terms for the US Senate: Origins and Irony offers one perspective on why it was set up that way.

[dezii]

Jan 23, 2020 11:28:08 GMT -5 azucena said:

Jan 23, 2020 10:40:24 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

I'm not a religious expert but I know in my city that the church populations are rapidly aging/dying and nobody younger is coming in to replace them.

Which statistics bear out.  Statistically each generation has become MORE secular than the last.   Overall, studies show, this is a GOOD thing for society.

Unfortunately America still has a long way to go compared to other Western nations.  We're still heavily steeped in our Puritan roots.  However we are getting there one funeral at a time if we must.

I heard an interesting explanation on Adam Ruins Everything episode about housing from a civil rights expert (forgot her name) she talked about how a rubber band can only be stretched so far until it snaps back, that is what we are experiencing now, HOWEVER even though the rubber band snaps back it is never quite as taunt as it was when it started.

The key is we have to remain vigilant and keep pulling, keep stretching.   We can't declare racism over because of Obama.  We can't declare sexism over because Clinton.  We can't say homophobia is over because gay marriage is legal etc etc.

We also cannot give into apathy and declare the world doomed so what is the point of me doing anything?   Assholes may be winning the battle currently but we can prevent assholes from winning the war.

Drama - I'm genuinely curious about the bolded statement.  When you get a chance, please elaborate.

I'm a Christian that has historically voted Repub but didn't vote for Trump.  FWIW, it seems about 50/50 in my circle of Christian friends.  For my own sanity, I don't bring up Trump with friends that I think supported him.  I can't look at a friend the same way once they've voiced currently supporting him.  I find it repulsive.

What seems to be the main reason they are so supportive of the Donald...being as u say, all devote Christians..{I am assuming devote}

[thyme4change]

My experience among my devoted Christian F & Fs, is that they claim to not support Trump, but appear to support every one of his policies and sentiments. I do not ask if they would ever vote against him. I know the answer, even if they lie to me.

[Bob Ross]

There is no Christian God anymore.  Just a new deity and he is orange. 

[Tennesseer]

Someone thinks otherwise.