hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Jan 22, 2020 15:16:29 GMT -5
If you build 1 good house and 99 bad ones, you are inept at building houses. agree.
but what other examples are there of "government healthcare" than the VA, hoops?
so, really, what we have here is that the government built one good house, and you are ASSUMING they will build 99 bad ones.
that seems strange to me.
Medicare, Medicaid, CHIP, the 93% of government healthcare expenditure that isn't VA. And that's still assuming there's any actual evidence the VA is good which I haven't yet seen. So sorry on the math, potentially only 93 out of 100 homes being awful. The same amount of money that other countries manage to spend to cover EVERYONE, that the US government spends to cover significantly less than "everyone".
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Jan 22, 2020 15:18:05 GMT -5
I'm sorry your government sucks
Knock yourself out.Weltz, aren't you glad you escaped this horrible country? We're only powerful in military and the economy...pfffftttt...our per-capita moose rating is SUPER low though which is the measure of true power eh?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jan 22, 2020 15:23:25 GMT -5
agree.
but what other examples are there of "government healthcare" than the VA, hoops?
so, really, what we have here is that the government built one good house, and you are ASSUMING they will build 99 bad ones.
that seems strange to me.
Medicare, Medicaid, CHIP, the 93% of government healthcare expenditure that isn't VA. those are insurance programs, hoops, not "healthcare". you are moving the goalposts.
but fine. those programs ALSO are 2-3x as efficient as private INSURANCE (according to Sanders, it is more like 8x, but I don't think he is calculating it right. he is not including "fulfillment").
so yeah, you are at your second at bat, with one strike at this point.
want to keep swinging, Casey?
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Jan 22, 2020 15:28:16 GMT -5
Medicare, Medicaid, CHIP, the 93% of government healthcare expenditure that isn't VA. those are insurance programs, hoops, not "healthcare". you are moving the goalposts.
but fine. those programs ALSO are 2-3x as efficient as private INSURANCE (according to Sanders, it is more like 8x, but I don't think he is calculating it right. he is not including "fulfillment").
so yeah, you are at your second at bat, with one strike at this point.
want to keep swinging, Casey?
The government classifies that spending as "Federal Health Care Spending". But if you don't think insurance is a part of healthcare, you don't really understand the entire space to begin with. Still waiting on your evidence that the VA is good. You seem to be dodging providing the proof you claim exists, much like Mr Trump. So many things I see in common with the 2 of you.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jan 22, 2020 15:34:58 GMT -5
The government classifies that spending as "Federal Health Care Spending". But if you don't think insurance is a part of healthcare, you don't really understand the entire space to begin with. Still waiting on your evidence that the VA is good. You seem to be dodging providing the proof you claim exists, much like Mr Trump. So many things I see in common with the 2 of you. The VA is huge. There are good and bad within it. However a majority of vets say they are satisfied with their care and wouldn't want to go elsewhere. it's more that that, dem. what we have going on in this thread is an argument over the efficiency of government run services.
the VA is more efficient than private healthcare. it ALSO has higher approval from it's users than private healthcare.
the VA is a good argument for getting rid of all private healthcare. but that is not what i am suggesting. i am suggesting that we offer public healthcare to everyone, and leave the private system in place.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Jan 22, 2020 15:35:03 GMT -5
The government classifies that spending as "Federal Health Care Spending". But if you don't think insurance is a part of healthcare, you don't really understand the entire space to begin with. Still waiting on your evidence that the VA is good. You seem to be dodging providing the proof you claim exists, much like Mr Trump. So many things I see in common with the 2 of you. The VA is huge. There are good and bad within it. However a majority of vets say they are satisfied with their care and wouldn't want to go elsewhere. Data on that? That's what I'm waiting for. I have the feeling anecdotally that it's better than the other 93% of federal healthcare spending, but I don't know that I can say it's "good" necessarily without seeing something that supports that.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jan 22, 2020 15:38:00 GMT -5
those are insurance programs, hoops, not "healthcare". you are moving the goalposts.
but fine. those programs ALSO are 2-3x as efficient as private INSURANCE (according to Sanders, it is more like 8x, but I don't think he is calculating it right. he is not including "fulfillment").
so yeah, you are at your second at bat, with one strike at this point.
want to keep swinging, Casey?
The government classifies that spending as "Federal Health Care Spending". But if you don't think insurance is a part of healthcare, you don't really understand the entire space to begin with. Still waiting on your evidence that the VA is good. You seem to be dodging providing the proof you claim exists, much like Mr Trump. So many things I see in common with the 2 of you. Trump and i have a few things in common. we are both basically apolitical. we are both career businesspeople who have basically never had a boss. that makes us both kinda know-it-alls. but that is where the similarities end.
i am far more successful than Trump has been. i listen better. and i never lie. at least on the boards.
now, having dispensed with what i assume was an attempt to piss me off (good luck with that), i can absolutely provide you with proof. but my experience with Trump supporters is that they don't accept proof. please confirm that you are different than that, otherwise, i won't be wasting my time.
tyia
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jan 22, 2020 15:49:13 GMT -5
I'm sorry your government sucks
Knock yourself out.Weltz, aren't you glad you escaped this horrible country? How many times am I supposed to answer that? You keep asking it over and over and over and over and over and over....... YES!
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Jan 22, 2020 15:50:48 GMT -5
The government classifies that spending as "Federal Health Care Spending". But if you don't think insurance is a part of healthcare, you don't really understand the entire space to begin with. Still waiting on your evidence that the VA is good. You seem to be dodging providing the proof you claim exists, much like Mr Trump. So many things I see in common with the 2 of you. Trump and i have a few things in common. we are both basically apolitical. we are both career businesspeople who have basically never had a boss. that makes us both kinda know-it-alls. but that is where the similarities end.
i am far more successful than Trump has been. i listen better. and i never lie. at least on the boards.
now, having dispensed with what i assume was an attempt to piss me off (good luck with that), i can absolutely provide you with proof. but my experience with Trump supporters is that they don't accept proof. please confirm that you are different than that, otherwise, i won't be wasting my time.
tyia
What gave it away that I'm a Trump supporter? All my posts on the Politics board about how stupid he is? You know how Trump supporters are always doing that. Or is it that I keep saying I'd be fine with single-payer healthcare which is a hallmark of Republicans?
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Jan 22, 2020 16:00:06 GMT -5
I will preface my following statements with saying that I have personally always had very good healthcare coverage. And I am 68yo so that covers quite a few years. During those years I have dealt with the Dutch, German, Spanish, Thai, Singaporean, and US healthcare system, which is probably a few more than most posters have. Almost all of these have some form of universal healthcare.
Aside from the Thai system for which I do not know how well it works for the average person in that country (we were rather well-to-do expats) I can say that all but one were very well run and worked very well for that country's entire population. The exception is the US. People like to say that the US has the best healthcare in the world. Well, let me tell you if you are rich that is a true statement in that it has very good healthcare (I don't have enough data points to confirm that it is the "best"). However, if you are not rich it is a sliding scale and where I am at (upper middle class) it is comparable to the others quality of the ones listed above. Once you get out of that financial range for many people in this country it sucks! And considering that we spend so much more money on healthcare here that leaves only one conclusion: putting a profit principle in healthcare and health insurance, leaving many uninsured and/or uninsurable, is a system that does not provide optimal results - not to put too fine a point to it.
Medical bankruptcies are, or should be, unacceptable. People choosing between medications and food are, or should be, unacceptable. People unable to see a doctor when they sick are, or should be, unacceptable. Yet that is what this "best healthcare in the world" provides. It is a be rich or else system...
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jan 22, 2020 16:59:41 GMT -5
Lots of talk, but if you got rid of the profit element our healthcare costs would decrease pretty drastically. It would wreck our economy if you did it in one fell swoop (i.e. Bernie's plan to outlaw private insurance). We have a created a very addictive drug called profit, and getting that piece out of healthcare will be painful for a lot of people.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jan 22, 2020 17:11:17 GMT -5
Universal healthcare could save America trillions: what’s holding us back? Yet casting Medicare-for-all as an economic impossibility is becoming a sisyphean pursuit: a slew of studies – including one released just the other week – are confirming that, yes, we can afford real universal healthcare in America. But if that’s the case, why haven’t we already achieved it? Well, the real stumbling block is not that single-payer advocates’ arithmetic is poor, it’s that American politics are dominated by the rich. www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/dec/11/universal-healthcare-could-save-america-trillions-whats-holding-us-back
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jan 22, 2020 17:35:35 GMT -5
Trump and i have a few things in common. we are both basically apolitical. we are both career businesspeople who have basically never had a boss. that makes us both kinda know-it-alls. but that is where the similarities end.
i am far more successful than Trump has been. i listen better. and i never lie. at least on the boards.
now, having dispensed with what i assume was an attempt to piss me off (good luck with that), i can absolutely provide you with proof. but my experience with Trump supporters is that they don't accept proof. please confirm that you are different than that, otherwise, i won't be wasting my time.
tyia
What gave it away that I'm a Trump supporter? All my posts on the Politics board about how stupid he is? You know how Trump supporters are always doing that. Or is it that I keep saying I'd be fine with single-payer healthcare which is a hallmark of Republicans? your antipathy for government said "Trump Supporter" to me. your support for single-payer confuses me, in that even i don't support that.
edit: accepting proof would have shown me you are not a Trump supporter more than your reply did.
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sesfw
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Post by sesfw on Jan 23, 2020 11:20:40 GMT -5
How many times am I supposed to answer that? You keep asking it over and over and over and over and over and over.......
YES!
Then why don't you QUIT trash talking a country you have no say about?
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jan 23, 2020 11:48:21 GMT -5
How many times am I supposed to answer that? You keep asking it over and over and over and over and over and over....... YES!Then why don't you QUIT trash talking a country you have no say about? If you don't like my posts, put me on ignore. Very simple.
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Jan 23, 2020 12:42:23 GMT -5
How many times am I supposed to answer that? You keep asking it over and over and over and over and over and over....... YES!Then why don't you QUIT trash talking a country you have no say about? If you don't like my posts, put me on ignore. Very simple. Hard to learn anything if all you have is an inside view. I appreciate your outside take on America and all of our foibles and faults. Keep it up!👍🏻
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jan 23, 2020 12:59:58 GMT -5
If you don't like my posts, put me on ignore. Very simple. Hard to learn anything if all you have is an inside view. I appreciate your outside take on America and all of our foibles and faults. Keep it up!👍🏻 Thank you. Everything the USA does affects Canada, even healthcare. Trump's brave new solution for the skyrocketing costs of pharmaceuticals is for people to get them from Canada, threatening our supplies.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jan 23, 2020 14:30:04 GMT -5
How many times am I supposed to answer that? You keep asking it over and over and over and over and over and over....... YES!Then why don't you QUIT trash talking a country you have no say about? why do we criticize France?
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Jan 23, 2020 15:10:48 GMT -5
How many times am I supposed to answer that? You keep asking it over and over and over and over and over and over....... YES!Then why don't you QUIT trash talking a country you have no say about? why do we criticize France? Why do we have a POTUS that uses the term “shithole countries”? Has that poster tweeted Trump to tell him to stop?
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Jan 23, 2020 17:29:00 GMT -5
How many times am I supposed to answer that? You keep asking it over and over and over and over and over and over....... YES!Then why don't you QUIT trash talking a country you have no say about? why do we criticize France? FREEDOM FRIES! THAT'S WHY
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jan 24, 2020 0:00:47 GMT -5
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Jan 24, 2020 9:45:10 GMT -5
[br Abe before anyone jumps in saying how superior the American healthcare system is to Spain’s- NO. Americans have the most expensive healthcare but only mediocre health care, especially if you’re poor
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jan 24, 2020 10:33:44 GMT -5
Late last summer/early fall, my SIL broke her hip and needed a hip replacement. First surgery/replacement cost was $96,000. Hip replacement failed. Had to have surgery again the first of this month and the cost was $76,000. The co-pay for the first hip replacement was $2,900 with Medicare. Due to the screw up with the first surgery, the co-pay for it, $2,900, was reimbursed. Medicare paid for the entire second surgery.
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dezii
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Post by dezii on Jan 24, 2020 11:00:23 GMT -5
Lots of talk, but if you got rid of the profit element our healthcare costs would decrease pretty drastically. It would wreck our economy if you did it in one fell swoop (i.e. Bernie's plan to outlaw private insurance). We have a created a very addictive drug called profit, and getting that piece out of healthcare will be painful for a lot of people. Not sure what u mean "but if you got rid of the profit element our healthcare "...? Doctors, nurses, front office personnel have to be paid...office rents need to be spent ...medical equipment paid for...chairs for patients need to be purchased...Just a few expenses one can't get away from plus the biggies...Hospitals, building of, upkeep of...very expensive equipement of... Seems to me profits are needed to cover these expenses..
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dezii
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Post by dezii on Jan 24, 2020 11:10:17 GMT -5
As a senior I am covered by Medicare ...plus I carry a supplement policy, AARP, to cover what Medicare does not cover...
counting what is deducted from my SS for my medicare costs plus the part B toward drug coverage..plus my share of my costs toward my RX coverage...total medical costs are close to $6000.....but have had medical problems in my later years...usually don't see the bills...all covered...but one such coverage, my stroke, almost a week in hospital before transfer to rehab, daughter said bill was over $125, 000...No idea what my rehab cost , was there almost two months...all covered..Same with Dr visits....and never had problem seeing them...
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Jan 24, 2020 11:11:38 GMT -5
Lots of talk, but if you got rid of the profit element our healthcare costs would decrease pretty drastically. It would wreck our economy if you did it in one fell swoop (i.e. Bernie's plan to outlaw private insurance). We have a created a very addictive drug called profit, and getting that piece out of healthcare will be painful for a lot of people. Not sure what u mean "but if you got rid of the profit element our healthcare "...? Doctors, nurses, front office personnel have to be paid...office rents need to be spent ...medical equipment paid for...chairs for patients need to be purchased...Just a few expenses one can't get away from plus the biggies...Hospitals, building of, upkeep of...very expensive equipement of... Seems to me profits are needed to cover these expenses.. Not really dezii. Profits are what is left after all those costs have been paid
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jan 24, 2020 14:03:34 GMT -5
Lots of talk, but if you got rid of the profit element our healthcare costs would decrease pretty drastically. It would wreck our economy if you did it in one fell swoop (i.e. Bernie's plan to outlaw private insurance). We have a created a very addictive drug called profit, and getting that piece out of healthcare will be painful for a lot of people. Not sure what u mean "but if you got rid of the profit element our healthcare "...? Doctors, nurses, front office personnel have to be paid...office rents need to be spent ...medical equipment paid for...chairs for patients need to be purchased...Just a few expenses one can't get away from plus the biggies...Hospitals, building of, upkeep of...very expensive equipement of... Seems to me profits are needed to cover these expenses.. The definition of profit is the money left over after all expenses have been paid.
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dezii
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Post by dezii on Jan 24, 2020 16:05:24 GMT -5
Not sure what u mean "but if you got rid of the profit element our healthcare "...? Doctors, nurses, front office personnel have to be paid...office rents need to be spent ...medical equipment paid for...chairs for patients need to be purchased...Just a few expenses one can't get away from plus the biggies...Hospitals, building of, upkeep of...very expensive equipement of... Seems to me profits are needed to cover these expenses.. The definition of profit is the money left over after all expenses have been paid. It seems to me that a profit motive is what gets folks to invest their resources, "$", that earn $ to pay those necessary "all expenses", either in their own fully owned businesses or by investing by others. See ownership of stocks, a piece of the business owners have put up..shares in their business..with hope of enough of a profit after expenses and the principals being paid to be distributed to those investing..either directly or indirectly. Value of a company increasing thus stock shares become more valuable and it's cost goes up..supply and demand phenonium.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jan 24, 2020 16:43:33 GMT -5
[br Abe before anyone jumps in saying how superior the American healthcare system is to Spain’s- NO. Americans have the most expensive healthcare but only mediocre health care, especially if you’re poor the Spanish healthcare system is a top 10 system.
if we were not so fucking jingoistic, we would copy it and improve it.
instead, some of us are moving there.
#wecandobetter
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jan 24, 2020 16:45:56 GMT -5
Late last summer/early fall, my SIL broke her hip and needed a hip replacement. First surgery/replacement cost was $96,000. Hip replacement failed. Had to have surgery again the first of this month and the cost was $76,000. The co-pay for the first hip replacement was $2,900 with Medicare. Due to the screw up with the first surgery, the co-pay for it, $2,900, was reimbursed. Medicare paid for the entire second surgery. the American taxpayer paid $170k for something that you could get for under $5k in Costa Rica.
we have the stupidest healthcare system in the world.
bar......none.
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